Diarrhea-Non-Life Threatening

[hanksmom]

Dosing recommendations sent by PM
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Today will be day 3 of the dose. Still some soft stools, no diarrhea and no blood. Still a smell, not as stout sometimes, then it is on others. Still eating, drinking, and playing!

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Today will be day 3 of the dose. Still some soft stools, no diarrhea and no blood. Still a smell, not as stout sometimes, then it is on others. Still eating, drinking, and playing!

Thanks for the update! It sounds as if there are some improvements in the consistency and odor of the stool; or am I reading more into your account than you intended? I'm glad that Hank's appetite, fluid intake and activity level is still intact and seemingly normal! My suggestion, HanksMom would be to wait at least two days and simply observe Hank for what hopefully will be improvement before committing to redosing although redosing in 3-5 days with this new Toltrazuril preparation would probably be worth doing, especially if improvements have become evident!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[hanksmom]

Thanks for the update! It sounds as if there are some improvements in the consistency and odor of the stool; or am I reading more into your account than you intended? I'm glad that Hank's appetite, fluid intake and activity level is still intact and seemingly normal! My suggestion, HanksMom would be to wait at least two days and simply observe Hank for what hopefully will be improvement before committing to redosing although redosing in 3-5 days with this new Toltrazuril preparation would probably be worth doing, especially if improvements have become evident!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

That’s correct! Some poop smells horrid and some is not as bad smelling. It’s going back and forth with the smell. We are still having a lot of soft stools, but it could be the medicines too. I’m also going to get a new scale bc I am thinking the one I have has messed up. If that’s the case, could we be dealing with under dosing of meds possibly? The grams were showing extremely low numbers this morning and I knew it wasn’t correct. I will be getting a new scale to test. Weighing in pounds was more accurate to what he would be at.

[hanksmom]

Thanks for the update! It sounds as if there are some improvements in the consistency and odor of the stool; or am I reading more into your account than you intended? I'm glad that Hank's appetite, fluid intake and activity level is still intact and seemingly normal! My suggestion, HanksMom would be to wait at least two days and simply observe Hank for what hopefully will be improvement before committing to redosing although redosing in 3-5 days with this new Toltrazuril preparation would probably be worth doing, especially if improvements have become evident!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

He’s started throwing up, he’s not done that and hasn’t had anything he shouldn’t. He’s throwing up the free fed blocks and that’s what it smells like as well.

[TomahawkFlyers]

Not sure when STS will see this. Just a comment and an observation. Squirrels are incapable of vomiting (actively and forcefully expelling matter from the stomach. They do, however, regurgitate. Regurgitation is a passive, involuntary event, and occurs when food has made it past the mouth, into the pharynx, and has possibly made it as far as the esophagus. The squirrel's body says "Nope!" and back out it comes.

Since the free feeding blocks seem directly connected to the recent regurgitation, you might consider removing them entirely from the diet, and per STS's suggestion, bump the HHB's up to 3 per day along with other items you know for certain are not implicated in your squirrel's digestive troubles.

Now a little speculation. With regurgitation, the process of digestion hasn't begun in earnest when the food comes back out. You're pretty much seeing (and smelling!) masticated food mixed with saliva. If you are noticing that this expelled material has the same really bad smell that has also been a characteristic of the diarrhea, I am tempted to point to the free-feed blocks as an item warranting particular suspicion. A sure way of finding out is to remove the free-feed blocks from the diet and see if the regurgitation and or diarrhea continue.

Best wishes for a resolution to all of this - you BOTH deserve it.

Jamie

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

He’s started throwing up, he’s not done that and hasn’t had anything he shouldn’t. He’s throwing up the free fed blocks and that’s what it smells like as well.

I'm sorry to hear that Hank is ejecting what seems to his Blocks! just for information purposes; Squirrels along with other rodents are actually unable to truly vomit. Vomiting is the coordinated forceful expulsion of stomach contents. Squirrels are only capable of regurgitation which is a passive passing of "stuff" from the esophagus (the food tube) before it actually enters the stomach! Vomiting, in animals that are capable of vomiting can be caused by quite a number of issues including ingesting poison, an adverse effect of medication and many other causes.

The concern with regurgitation is that this is a passive occurrence and it is often caused by problems such as a blockage or restriction before the swallowed material enters the stomach! This can result from an animal swallowing something that becomes "stuck" in the esophagus or in the throat region. Also, regurgitation makes aspiration (ingested material entering the breathing tubes or lungs! Is Hank breathing normally?

I Hank able to keep anything down and of most importance on an immediate basis is whether or not Hank is able to keep fluids down or are those being regurgitated along with the blocks? I had though that he was no longer getting free fed blocks or did you receive the Teklad block and he is now using those?

Going back to the fluids question; if Hank is keeping fluids down, that is a very good sign because if nothing can pass into the stomach, including fluids, it means that dehydration will likely occur and this must be prevented with usually sub-cutaneous fluid administration. Also, if there is a blockage in the throat or esophagus, this must be removed somehow which may require the specialized services of a Vet. IF Hank is back to swallowing normally; it may be best to supervise his eating and to use soft or softened foods. The HHBs are sort anyway and be made softer with mixing with formula or baby food or even water and the free-fed blocks the same but it may be that just giving the 3 Henry's Blocks would be best for now.

Please carefully try to determine if Hank is able to swallow fluids. You can try to deposit water into his mouth via a 1cc syringe going drop by drop and ensuring the water is swallowed. Hopefully, what ever was blocking or restricting from entering the stomach was only a transient occurrence and this has now broken up or passed into the stomach itself and all will be ok.

Is Hank still passing stool? is his abdomen soft an NOT distended? Distension of the abdomen is where it appears swollen and may not fell soft to the gentle tough.

Again, I am sorry for this complication! Please keep on with the updates!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Thanks TF! I just saw your great commentary after I posted! Thanks for your insight and assistance!!
Regards,
StS

[hanksmom]

Not sure when STS will see this. Just a comment and an observation. Squirrels are incapable of vomiting (actively and forcefully expelling matter from the stomach. They do, however, regurgitate. Regurgitation is a passive, involuntary event, and occurs when food has made it past the mouth, into the pharynx, and has possibly made it as far as the esophagus. The squirrel's body says "Nope!" and back out it comes.

Since the free feeding blocks seem directly connected to the recent regurgitation, you might consider removing them entirely from the diet, and per STS's suggestion, bump the HHB's up to 3 per day along with other items you know for certain are not implicated in your squirrel's digestive troubles.

Now a little speculation. With regurgitation, the process of digestion hasn't begun in earnest when the food comes back out. You're pretty much seeing (and smelling!) masticated food mixed with saliva. If you are noticing that this expelled material has the same really bad smell that has also been a characteristic of the diarrhea, I am tempted to point to the free-feed blocks as an item warranting particular suspicion. A sure way of finding out is to remove the free-feed blocks from the diet and see if the regurgitation and or diarrhea continue.

Best wishes for a resolution to all of this - you BOTH deserve it.

Jamie

Thank you so much! I just need him to get better, we’ve been dealing with something for two months and I just don’t know what else to do. I wish we had a vet here that would see him!!

The “free fed” I meant the Teklad blocks that I ordered. He’s up and running around this morning.

[hanksmom]

I'm sorry to hear that Hank is ejecting what seems to his Blocks! just for information purposes; Squirrels along with other rodents are actually unable to truly vomit. Vomiting is the coordinated forceful expulsion of stomach contents. Squirrels are only capable of regurgitation which is a passive passing of "stuff" from the esophagus (the food tube) before it actually enters the stomach! Vomiting, in animals that are capable of vomiting can be caused by quite a number of issues including ingesting poison, an adverse effect of medication and many other causes.

The concern with regurgitation is that this is a passive occurrence and it is often caused by problems such as a blockage or restriction before the swallowed material enters the stomach! This can result from an animal swallowing something that becomes "stuck" in the esophagus or in the throat region. Also, regurgitation makes aspiration (ingested material entering the breathing tubes or lungs! Is Hank breathing normally?

I Hank able to keep anything down and of most importance on an immediate basis is whether or not Hank is able to keep fluids down or are those being regurgitated along with the blocks? I had though that he was no longer getting free fed blocks or did you receive the Teklad block and he is now using those?

Going back to the fluids question; if Hank is keeping fluids down, that is a very good sign because if nothing can pass into the stomach, including fluids, it means that dehydration will likely occur and this must be prevented with usually sub-cutaneous fluid administration. Also, if there is a blockage in the throat or esophagus, this must be removed somehow which may require the specialized services of a Vet. IF Hank is back to swallowing normally; it may be best to supervise his eating and to use soft or softened foods. The HHBs are sort anyway and be made softer with mixing with formula or baby food or even water and the free-fed blocks the same but it may be that just giving the 3 Henry's Blocks would be best for now.

Please carefully try to determine if Hank is able to swallow fluids. You can try to deposit water into his mouth via a 1cc syringe going drop by drop and ensuring the water is swallowed. Hopefully, what ever was blocking or restricting from entering the stomach was only a transient occurrence and this has now broken up or passed into the stomach itself and all will be ok.

Is Hank still passing stool? is his abdomen soft an NOT distended? Distension of the abdomen is where it appears swollen and may not fell soft to the gentle tough.

Again, I am sorry for this complication! Please keep on with the updates!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

I feel like we can’t win for losing. I meant the Teklad is what he’s had, we got them Tuesday and I have given him a few a day with 2 HHB and his veggies. His abdomen is soft and not swollen. He’s running around this morning acting like himself. Gave some water, it didn’t come back up. I’ve given him his HHB this morning and waiting to see what happens there. He is also breathing normal.

[hanksmom]

I feel like we can’t win for losing. I meant the Teklad is what he’s had, we got them Tuesday and I have given him a few a day with 2 HHB and his veggies. His abdomen is soft and not swollen. He’s running around this morning acting like himself. Gave some water, it didn’t come back up. I’ve given him his HHB this morning and waiting to see what happens there. He is also breathing normal.

And we are back to watery stool.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

And we are back to watery stool.

It's actually not that unusual for there to be changes in stooling and apparent appetite as well when new foods are introduced! As long as the foods are healthy, safe and palatable, these effects tend to resolve fairly quickly. It may be best to just keep on with 3 HHBs for a while if is appears that Hank is tolerating those and maybe SMALL pieces of the healthy vegetable your have also been using and see if this go back to how they were just a couple of days ago. Please check for new stashes that Hank may have made just in case!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[hanksmom]

It's actually not that unusual for there to be changes in stooling and apparent appetite as well when new foods are introduced! As long as the foods are healthy, safe and palatable, these effects tend to resolve fairly quickly. It may be best to just keep on with 3 HHBs for a while if is appears that Hank is tolerating those and maybe SMALL pieces of the healthy vegetable your have also been using and see if this go back to how they were just a couple of days ago. Please check for new stashes that Hank may have made just in case!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

I’ll go ahead and purchase more HHB’s so we have enough. I will give him three a day and hold off on any other foods including the Teklad. Should I try some Dia-Stat just to give him some electrolytes?

[island rehabber]

. Should I try some Dia-Stat just to give him some electrolytes?

Just dropping in here to say I'm a big fan of Dia-Stat and would definitely give him some.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I’m also going to get a new scale bc I am thinking the one I have has messed up. If that’s the case, could we be dealing with under dosing of meds possibly? The grams were showing extremely low numbers this morning and I knew it wasn’t correct. I will be getting a new scale to test. Weighing in pounds was more accurate to what he would be at.

Hi HanksMom:
Did you obtain new scales and if so, how did the weights obtained with the new scales correlate with those from the old scales? How is Hank doing this morning?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[hanksmom]

Hi HanksMom:
Did you obtain new scales and if so, how did the weights obtained with the new scales correlate with those from the old scales? How is Hank doing this morning?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

I did! The new has him about 555. I weighed him on the old one and it said 504. I threw the old one away! He seems to be doing well this morning. I just gave him three HHB’s yesterday, and he’s had two this morning. One at 8, another at 10. He’s kept food and water down! I will give him a third in a little bit with a little bit of lettuce!! His stool is still firm at first with a smell, but goes soft. I may do another round of Toltra. I’m thinking of waiting till Wed or Thursday to do that? His last dose was Thursday, March 20th. Thoughts?

[TomahawkFlyers]

Just feeling bad for Hank and his mom. This has gone on for so long. It is hard to imagine having diarrhea for two months. For Hank's mom, that's a lot of worrying and a lot of cleaning. After all is said and done, your idea of simply eliminating all foods except the HHB's to see if that produces consistently normal poop and then adding back the supplemental foods one at a time until the diarrhea returns in order to isolate and eliminate the food causing the problems is an excellent one. The extra HHB to keep Hank feeling full is icing on the cake. There seems to be light at the end off the tunnel and it isn't a train.

A question for you - Hank has ingested quite a bit and quite an assortment of antidiarrheals. Do you think this might be adding to the difficulty by adding upset to his digestive tract? Does any of it - in quantity or in combination with the others, have a negative impact on gut bacteria?

For Hank's mom, when Hank is out of the woods and if the HHB's are getting a little pricey, there is that recipe that has exactly the same essential and other ingredients that HHB's have. I wouldn't introduce this while trying to identify the culprit, but when Hank is entirely well.

Jamie

Thanks TF! I just saw your great commentary after I posted! Thanks for your insight and assistance!!
Regards,
StS

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I did! The new has him about 555. I weighed him on the old one and it said 504. I threw the old one away! He seems to be doing well this morning. I just gave him three HHB’s yesterday, and he’s had two this morning. One at 8, another at 10. He’s kept food and water down! I will give him a third in a little bit with a little bit of lettuce!! His stool is still firm at first with a smell, but goes soft. I may do another round of Toltra. I’m thinking of waiting till Wed or Thursday to do that? His last dose was Thursday, March 20th. Thoughts?

Thanks for the update, HanksMom! I'm glad that the regurgitation issue is resolved! I have sent a PM to you discussing possible redosing of Toltrazuril.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[hanksmom]

Just feeling bad for Hank and his mom. This has gone on for so long. It is hard to imagine having diarrhea for two months. For Hank's mom, that's a lot of worrying and a lot of cleaning. After all is said and done, your idea of simply eliminating all foods except the HHB's to see if that produces consistently normal poop and then adding back the supplemental foods one at a time until the diarrhea returns in order to isolate and eliminate the food causing the problems is an excellent one. The extra HHB to keep Hank feeling full is icing on the cake. There seems to be light at the end off the tunnel and it isn't a train.

A question for you - Hank has ingested quite a bit and quite an assortment of antidiarrheals. Do you think this might be adding to the difficulty by adding upset to his digestive tract? Does any of it - in quantity or in combination with the others, have a negative impact on gut bacteria?

For Hank's mom, when Hank is out of the woods and if the HHB's are getting a little pricey, there is that recipe that has exactly the same essential and other ingredients that HHB's have. I wouldn't introduce this while trying to identify the culprit, but when Hank is entirely well.

Jamie

Thank you so much. I really wish we had a vet close that would see him safely! It’s been frustrating for he and I both lol! But, the best thing is he’s kept his appetite, drinks his water, and is still his active, crazy squirrel self!!

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hi HanksMom:
How is Hank doing?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[hanksmom]

Hi HanksMom:
How is Hank doing?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Still some stool issues, but I have been in contact with a vet! He’s still eating and drinking and still his playful self!! We will continue to monitor his stools and see if it straightens out. Possibly so many meds since Jan 29 could have cause this to continue! Thank you soooo much for your help and continued support!!!