please can someone help??

[ljhpsauce]

Hi I am a Veterinary Assistant but also run a Squirrel Rescue Rehab centre I have just received about a 10 to 12 week old male squirrel which was found near a church on the ground by lady who said she saw him and expected him to run away as she approached but he didn't, on looking at him she noticed he was crawling close to the ground when left to walk but not bouncing about like a usual healthy squirrel would so she bought him to me I have noticed that he seems to be having occasional mild seizures rolling on his back stretching out etc but then calming down and letting me soothingly stroke his head. I have given him Metacam 1mg Preds and Baytril and also come calcium just in case, he is soo very skinny, i offered him some squirrel formula and he has had about 8mls and i wanted to also give him some Phenobarbitol to calm him I have 15ml tablets which I would usually crush up the correct amount and add to milk or water and admin orally via syringe. PLEASE CAN U GIVE ME THE CORRECT DOSAGE FOR HIM as I cant find any other info thank you. XX

[prncsbabs1]

JMO I would not give him any Pheno.....Did you try karo syrup or maple syrup on his gums..if you say he is skinny, it could just be low blood sugar...I would try this first. .

[ljhpsauce]

JMO I would not give him any Pheno.....Did you try karo syrup or maple syrup on his gums..if you say he is skinny, it could just be low blood sugar...I would try this first. . I mixed Mapel syrup into his Baytril b4 i gave it to him to take away the bitter taste, he had this about 4hrs ago. And he has had 8mls of Squirrel Formula too.

[Jackie in Tampa]

did you say prednisone?
never with metcam...

[CritterMom]

Boy, unless those seizures are really bad, I think I would also wait to see what good nutrition, warmth, and supportive care does. I would also be giving him Bach's Rescue Remedy, available at any health food store. Rub on feet and eats, and for fastest absorbsion, put a drop on his gums.

I don't have dosing info for pheno...

[Jackie in Tampa]

just me, but I would slow down and give time to evaluate before over medicating him...
get him hydrated and warm, dark quiet etc...heat
moniter the situation for a while...no more meds...til some one can help decide what avenue to take
NSAIDS or NOT

[ljhpsauce]

did you say prednisone?
never with metcam...
Oh my goodness!! why not ?? the Vets at the animal hospital where I work have never mentioned this to me.?? I am worried now.

[ljhpsauce]

just me, but I would slow down and give time to evaluate before over medicating him...
get him hydrated and warm, dark quiet etc...heat
moniter the situation for a while...no more meds...til some one can help decide what avenue to take
NSAIDS or NOT
Thank you fro your advice i totally agree with your advice which is what i have done, but it has been over 5 hrs now and although he seems very slightly calmer, i just dont want 4 him to suffer when i could be doing something to help other than take him into the animal hospital where i work to see a vet as i know they will just want to euthanase him without giving him a chance, that's what it is like here in UK with some vets, Squirrels aren't a Favourite with them.

[CritterMom]

How often are the seizures happening?

Five hours is not very long. If he was mine, I would be giving him hydration - as a vet tech you likely have an electrolyte rehydrating solution; baby human pedialyte type things work well, or you can mix:
1 teaspoon salt
3 Tablespoons sugar
1 quart water

Keep mix in refrigerator, administer warmed like formula to the squirrel, by syringe.

I would also have him in a darkened, covered container with t shirts to burrow under and places to snuggle into. Get him really well hydrated and start giving him your baby squirrel formula. Get the Rescue Remedy - I am sure they must sell it in the UK. And give him a couple days of first hydration and then good, healthy food and THEN assess him. Way, way too early to euthanize, if ever.

Again, how ofted is he seizing?

[mugzeezma]

Metacam & Prednisone?

Metacam (meloxicam) an NSAID
Prednisone a steroid

I would NOT do the Phenobarb because you need to hydrate and stabilize first
Stop the Metacam and use the Prednisone and put on a declining or weaning dose

Side Effects

The side effects of concern are the same with all NSAIDs: stomach ulceration, loss of kidney function, and inappropriate bleeding. These are dependent on the dose of medication used and on risk factors of the host (for example: an aged pet may not efficiently clear a dose of medication from its body leading to stronger and longer activity of the drug). There is also a particular idiosyncratic reaction for NSAIDs that has received a great deal of press. An idiosyncratic reaction is one that is neither dose-dependent nor predictable by any apparent host factor; it simply happens out of the blue. This particular idiosyncratic reaction is a liver toxicity that is rare enough that it did not show up in any of the initial 400 carprofen test subjects, nor in the U.K., and was not recognized until carprofen was used in over a million dogs in the U.S. after its release as the first NSAID. This reaction is reviewed below. While originally it was carprofen use that led to the recognition of this reaction, it is now felt that all veterinary NSAIDs have potential to cause this reaction.

The most common side effects of meloxicam are nausea, appetite loss, vomiting or diarrhea. If any of the above are noted, meloxicam should be discontinued and the pet brought in for a liver enzyme and renal parameter blood test. In most cases, the reaction is minor and resolves with symptomatic relief, but it is important to rule out whether or not the patient has more than just a routine upset stomach.
If a patient has borderline kidney function, NSAIDs should not be used as they reduce blood flow through the kidneys. It is also important that NSAIDS not be given to dehydrated patients because of this potential side effect. This is particularly true in cats.
The hepatopathy side effect (usually occurs within the first 3 weeks of use).
A carprofen reaction that has received special attention is hepatopathy, a type of liver disease. Symptoms include nausea, appetite loss, and/or diarrhea as well as marked elevations (3-4 times higher than the normal range) in liver enzymes measured in the blood. The question of whether other veterinary NSAIDs share this reaction has arisen. At this time, it is generally felt that the hepatopathy idiosyncratic reaction is not unique to carprofen and should be of concern with any veterinary NSAID and this includes meloxicam. This reaction seems to be a canine issue only.

Dogs with hepatopathy show improvement with support 5 to 10 days after discontinuing medication. It is important that the NSAID be discontinued and the patient evaluated in the event of upset stomach signs in case of this syndrome. Even though this is a rare syndrome (one in 5000), it can become life-threatening if ignored. Appetite loss or other intestinal signs do not necessarily indicate a hepatopathy but since they might, it is important not to ignore these signs should they occur. There is no way to predict which dogs will experience this side effect.

The hepatopathy reaction usually occurs in the first 3 weeks after starting carprofen but could theoretically occur later.

All NSAIDs are removed from the body by the liver. If the patient’s liver is not working normally due to another disease or if the patient is taking other drugs that are also removed by the liver, it is possible to “over work” the liver and exacerbate pre-existing liver disease. If there is any question about a patient’s liver function, another class of pain reliever should be selected.


Interactions with Other Drugs

Drugs of the NSAID class should not be used concurrently as the potential for the aforementioned side effects increases. For similar reasons, NSAIDS should not be used in conjunction with corticosteroid hormones such as prednisone, dexamethasone, etc. Pfizer recommends a 5 to 7 day rest period when changing from one NSAID to another. Aspirinposes an exception due to its strong platelet inactivating abilities so 10 to 14 days is recommended when switching to another veterinary NSAID from aspirin. Allow at least one week between prednisone and meloxicam.

[Kristal]

just me, but I would slow down and give time to evaluate before over medicating him...
get him hydrated and warm, dark quiet etc...heat
moniter the situation for a while...no more meds...til some one can help decide what avenue to take
NSAIDS or NOT

:goodpost

Also, I was reading a couple of days ago about how they mass-killed thousands of greys in Anglesey in an effort to exterminate the species. Grey squirrels are definitely personae non-grata in the UK. They think they are introducing pox which they typically survive, but which kill the local red squirrel population :( It is just as likely that greys are simply out-competing the reds, though, having a better spatial memory and being more cooperative and less territorial/combative. Greys are also just plain tough and are fantastic survivors.

I think she is right that she will not find a sympathetic vet easily, unfortunately.

[ljhpsauce]

Wow!!! Thank U to Every1 who posted me a reply, some good reading/info there. A great help to me. I was doing most of suggested stuff i.e keeping him in warm box with blankets in a quiet warm darkened room etc already, but anything i wasn't doing I am so doing now so a big thank U to Every1 not only for suggestions but giving me good reason to still believe there is hope. :thumbsup :grouphug :peace :Love_Icon xxxx

[ljhpsauce]

How often are the seizures happening?

Five hours is not very long. If he was mine, I would be giving him hydration - as a vet tech you likely have an electrolyte rehydrating solution; baby human pedialyte type things work well, or you can mix:
1 teaspoon salt
3 Tablespoons sugar
1 quart water

Keep mix in refrigerator, administer warmed like formula to the squirrel, by syringe.

I would also have him in a darkened, covered container with t shirts to burrow under and places to snuggle into. Get him really well hydrated and start giving him your baby squirrel formula. Get the Rescue Remedy - I am sure they must sell it in the UK. And give him a couple days of first hydration and then good, healthy food and THEN assess him. Way, way too early to euthanize, if ever.

Again, how often is he seizing?
Thank U, He has been OK during the night no seizing just sleeping but this morning he has had 15mls of squirrel formula via syringe feeding but not touching solids, and he has been doing the stretching out rolling onto his back as if having good stretch seizure thing on and off but with about between a 10 & 20min interval sometimes longer. He sooo really skinny I can feel every nodule in his spine poor little mite, I wonder if that's why he fell out of a tree as he was so weak?? although I am only assuming that is what happened as the kind lady who found him said she had found him on the ground near a church and as she approached she quite expected him to skip off but he didn't which is when she realized there must be something wrong.:dono :Love_Icon :Love_Icon

[Jackie in Tampa]

just a heads up...metacam is not ever given to a dehydrated sq...it can and will cause renal failure. AND Never with a Steroid!

With prednisone, tramadol is the drug of choice for pain.


How is your squirrel today?
Stretching, rolling off the heat are usually 'not good signs':grouphug

[CritterMom]

Keep up with the formula - and - can you add some additional calcium/magnesium? I'm wondering if he may have some MBD issues. Try to get 3-500mg of calcium into him per day, spread out, and let's see if his seizures change/end.

[ljhpsauce]

:goodpost

Also, I was reading a couple of days ago about how they mass-killed thousands of greys in Anglesey in an effort to exterminate the species. Grey squirrels are definitely personae non-grata in the UK. They think they are introducing pox which they typically survive, but which kill the local red squirrel population :( It is just as likely that greys are simply out-competing the reds, though, having a better spatial memory and being more cooperative and less territorial/combative. Greys are also just plain tough and are fantastic survivors.

I think she is right that she will not find a sympathetic vet easily, unfortunately.
Well Yes I believe Greys are Fantastic!! and that is how/why I got into running my Squirrel Rescue - "Squirrel On My Shoulder.com" as I want to try re-educate British people about Greys and get them to STOP using them as scapegoat and blaming them for everything bad that happens to the Reds and Nature and start taking responsibility for their wrongdoings & realizing that it is THEM/MAN who is to blame for most of it!!!! Such as cutting down all the woods and forests which have Pine and Conifer trees in etc (which Reds need to survive) where as Greys are able to adapt.:soapbox :peace

[Kristal]

Well Yes I believe Greys are Fantastic!! and that is how/why I got into running my Squirrel Rescue - "Squirrel On My Shoulder.com" as I want to try re-educate British people about Greys and get them to STOP using them as scapegoat and blaming them for everything bad that happens to the Reds and Nature and start taking responsibility for their wrongdoings & realizing that it is THEM/MAN who is to blame for most of it!!!! Such as cutting down all the woods and forests which have Pine and Conifer trees in etc (which Reds need to survive) where as Greys are able to adapt.:soapbox :peace

That's a very good point. Greys live in the damnedest places and will/can eat just about anything and everything while the red is much more sensitive, specialised and territorial. I was shocked and disgusted to read how many thousands of greys they trapped and killed just on that one, little island. How many must there be over the entire of the UK? I think Anglesey is not unique with it's policy of extermination. That is animal loving gone horribly wrong, in my opinion.

[ljhpsauce]

Well he is looking much better, he seems to be improving though very slowly. He isnt on any meds now as the other vet i spoke to yesterday checked him over and agreed his is Really emaciated and needs feeding up 1st to help him deal with any drugs he may need, he is on Xtra calcium etc too. As i say i have added xtra calcium vits mins to his squirrel formula as well as bio yogurt for his tummy a a little double cream to build him up.But he still cant manage solids so is there anything else i can give him to help build him up? i heard that you can give a special recipe mix made up of those special protein/whey drinks that athletes & body builders use, is this true??? Also he sometimes grinds his teeth and sounds like he is suckling when he sleeps too.??:thinking

[ljhpsauce]

As i said I ham giving him Bio Yogurt for his Tummy as he has Diarrhea is there anything else i can give for this too??

[mugzeezma]

Well he is looking much better, he seems to be improving though very slowly. He isnt on any meds now as the other vet i spoke to yesterday checked him over and agreed his is Really emaciated and needs feeding up 1st to help him deal with any drugs he may need, he is on Xtra calcium etc too. As i say i have added xtra calcium vits mins to his squirrel formula as well as bio yogurt for his tummy a a little double cream to build him up.But he still cant manage solids so is there anything else i can give him to help build him up? i heard that you can give a special recipe mix made up of those special protein/whey drinks that athletes & body builders use, is this true??? Also he sometimes grinds his teeth and sounds like he is suckling when he sleeps too.??:thinking
TIME
He just needs time.
I know how badly you want this dear baby to pick up and run but you need to let him recover first. He has lost his family and natural environment not to mention any physical trauma he may have incurred from falling and exposure. He is in shock and undernourished. Please resist the urge to over doctor him and be patient.
THe best thing for him is food, warmth, and quiet. :grouphug

[mugzeezma]

What is the diarrhea like? Soft and white or dark and liquid?
go back to pedialyte for one feeding

Kaopectate for dark liquid diarrhea. May need ABs if it continues...coccidial?
Do you know how much this baby weighs?

[Kristal]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jun/03/wildlife-grey-squirrel

Awful story... and seriously?? Grey squirrels have lived in the woods for ages and they do not DESTROY them. Out of control deer populations will, yes... but that is because we eliminate all their predators. Deer culling is entirely justified and reasonable in light of our general encroachment and stupidity.

But blaming that on the grey is just meanspirited. You are right that they are being scapegoated over there.

[ljhpsauce]

TIME
He just needs time.
I know how badly you want this dear baby to pick up and run but you need to let him recover first. He has lost his family and natural environment not to mention any physical trauma he may have incurred from falling and exposure. He is in shock and undernourished. Please resist the urge to over doctor him and be patient.
THe best thing for him is food, warmth, and quiet. :grouphug
Its just the not knowing, You see can you believe in the 5+yrs that I been have doing squirrel rescue rehab it is actually the 1st time I have had a youngster "wild" squirrel brought to me that isn't a baby with these probs. when they are babies you kind of know more or less what must have happened but with him being much much older all sorts of things like ifs and maybes are going through my head. I was thinking that for him to be a much older young squirrel perhaps he got parted fro his mum at an earlier age but has just about managed to survive on his own but obviously as a result not been getting the proper nourishment he would have had if he had had his mum to bring him up full term. Thank U for being Soo understanding its lovely to know I have such understanding like minded people who care, be understanding and talk to... And You are absolutely right of course.:bowdown

[ljhpsauce]

What is the diarrhea like? Soft and white or dark and liquid?
go back to pedialyte for one feeding

Kaopectate for dark liquid diarrhea. May need ABs if it continues...coccidial?
Do you know how much this baby weighs?
It is Actually white runny thick like paste diarreah... actually quite like bird poop.

[ljhpsauce]

He's doing normal poop! he is looking much better, No more fits, He is eating by himself and although still sleeping a lot he is getting up and about a bit. He just needs fattening & building up now so plenty of good nourishment full of Vits etc. I am Soo Pleased as it was doubtful with him a couple of times but it just goes to prove never give up hope, Plenty of good old Warmth,Rest, Nourishment and nurturing. Thank You to every one for your wise words of help and support.:bowdown :grouphug :multi :wott mjs :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :Love_Icon :bowdown

[mugzeezma]

It is Actually white runny thick like paste diarreah... actually quite like bird poop.
THis is indicative of overfeeding. When you start seeing soft white poo go back to pedialyte for one feeding and then resume.
Watch the tummy for fullness at the groin, full but not too full, just round. You may also see what we call a Milk Line. This is not so much a line as a difference in the color of the skin on his tummy. The lower half should be pinker up to below the ribs which will be lightly darker.

Glad to hear he's on the mend :thumbsup
Nerve racking isn't it?

[Mybabypeanut]

Metacam & Prednisone?

Metacam (meloxicam) an NSAID
Prednisone a steroid

I would NOT do the Phenobarb because you need to hydrate and stabilize first
Stop the Metacam and use the Prednisone and put on a declining or weaning dose

Side Effects

The side effects of concern are the same with all NSAIDs: stomach ulceration, loss of kidney function, and inappropriate bleeding. These are dependent on the dose of medication used and on risk factors of the host (for example: an aged pet may not efficiently clear a dose of medication from its body leading to stronger and longer activity of the drug). There is also a particular idiosyncratic reaction for NSAIDs that has received a great deal of press. An idiosyncratic reaction is one that is neither dose-dependent nor predictable by any apparent host factor; it simply happens out of the blue. This particular idiosyncratic reaction is a liver toxicity that is rare enough that it did not show up in any of the initial 400 carprofen test subjects, nor in the U.K., and was not recognized until carprofen was used in over a million dogs in the U.S. after its release as the first NSAID. This reaction is reviewed below. While originally it was carprofen use that led to the recognition of this reaction, it is now felt that all veterinary NSAIDs have potential to cause this reaction.

The most common side effects of meloxicam are nausea, appetite loss, vomiting or diarrhea. If any of the above are noted, meloxicam should be discontinued and the pet brought in for a liver enzyme and renal parameter blood test. In most cases, the reaction is minor and resolves with symptomatic relief, but it is important to rule out whether or not the patient has more than just a routine upset stomach.
If a patient has borderline kidney function, NSAIDs should not be used as they reduce blood flow through the kidneys. It is also important that NSAIDS not be given to dehydrated patients because of this potential side effect. This is particularly true in cats.
The hepatopathy side effect (usually occurs within the first 3 weeks of use).
A carprofen reaction that has received special attention is hepatopathy, a type of liver disease. Symptoms include nausea, appetite loss, and/or diarrhea as well as marked elevations (3-4 times higher than the normal range) in liver enzymes measured in the blood. The question of whether other veterinary NSAIDs share this reaction has arisen. At this time, it is generally felt that the hepatopathy idiosyncratic reaction is not unique to carprofen and should be of concern with any veterinary NSAID and this includes meloxicam. This reaction seems to be a canine issue only.

Dogs with hepatopathy show improvement with support 5 to 10 days after discontinuing medication. It is important that the NSAID be discontinued and the patient evaluated in the event of upset stomach signs in case of this syndrome. Even though this is a rare syndrome (one in 5000), it can become life-threatening if ignored. Appetite loss or other intestinal signs do not necessarily indicate a hepatopathy but since they might, it is important not to ignore these signs should they occur. There is no way to predict which dogs will experience this side effect.

The hepatopathy reaction usually occurs in the first 3 weeks after starting carprofen but could theoretically occur later.

All NSAIDs are removed from the body by the liver. If the patient’s liver is not working normally due to another disease or if the patient is taking other drugs that are also removed by the liver, it is possible to “over work” the liver and exacerbate pre-existing liver disease. If there is any question about a patient’s liver function, another class of pain reliever should be selected.


Interactions with Other Drugs

Drugs of the NSAID class should not be used concurrently as the potential for the aforementioned side effects increases. For similar reasons, NSAIDS should not be used in conjunction with corticosteroid hormones such as prednisone, dexamethasone, etc. Pfizer recommends a 5 to 7 day rest period when changing from one NSAID to another. Aspirinposes an exception due to its strong platelet inactivating abilities so 10 to 14 days is recommended when switching to another veterinary NSAID from aspirin. Allow at least one week between prednisone and meloxicam.

I am so sorry to hear that this is happening to Pixie! I will direct some flyer peeps here, but would you like me to PM you Chrystal's (Mrs. Skul) number? She is ALWAYS happy to help talk out the possible problems and fixes.[/QUOTE]

I have a seizure squirrel also. She is about 5 months old and has had them since she adopted me. The vet wants her to take calcium, vit D and phenobarbital daily. I so scared about giving her all these meds. Especially the Vitamin D!! I wont give her that daily although the vet recommends it. She eats good. She gets Harrys Blocks x 3 per day, still on her formula of esbilac that I add water and whipping cream to per direction.I also put molasses in her formula because a rehabber told me it may help the seizures. She tends to drink about 20 ml's of that a day plus a little at bedtime in her syringe. She gets one nut per day either a pecan or hazelnut. Also a assortment of green veggies and fruits from Henrys Blocks website. She eats her veggies and fruit pretty good. Although she would rather have a block, nut or milk.

Could you share with he Mrs. Skul with me also? Im so scared we are going to lose her. Even with the meds she is still having one - two seizures about every 2-3 days. Last night 30 minutes after getting her phenobarbital and calcium glubinate sp? she had 2 seizures. The second was the worst with grinding teeth, rigidity, ect.

I came across her in my yard in the summer. She was tiny but had big fluffy tail. I sat down in the grass and she came and jumped in my lap. Scared me silly but I took her in my home and gave her some peanut butter and she has been here every since. Seizures started the first week and they were light. The older she got the worse they got. She was up to 5 or 6 seizures that were very bad every 2 days.

I'll do anything to help her. Whatever I need to feed, meds, ect. She sleeps with us every night so I can be there for her if she has a seizure. Picking her up, holding her and talking to her seems to pull her out of the seizures quicker. She is my baby and has our hearts completely. She is so precious and sweet and loving....as long as its night time...lol. I wonder if anyone knows why she is so loving and cuddly at night and during the day you can't touch her??

Thank you sooooo much for any help anyone can give me that has experience with seizures.:hug