Diarrhea-Non-Life Threatening

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

And this is a first clear discharge

Does that clear clump of what appears to be mucus have an odor and if so; is it relatively subtle or quite noticeable and please provide any further details or descriptions as all may be useful!
Regards,
StS

[hanksmom]

Hi HanksMom:
Just to know the specifics of what Hank has already been given for presumptive treatment of Giardiasis; would you please PM the protocol that you followed for Mixing, Dosing and Duration of the Panacur (fenbendazole) that you administered to Hank and please include and/or post on the open Board, the approximate date that he began the Panacur. Thanks!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Started Pancur Jan 29, once a day, for 4 days.

[hanksmom]

Does that clear clump of what appears to be mucus have an odor and if so; is it relatively subtle or quite noticeable and please provide any further details or descriptions as all may be useful!
Regards,
StS

Still has the foul smell that’s been with us for over a month. That clear discharge came after the diarrhea.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Still has the foul smell that’s been with us for over a month. That clear discharge came after the diarrhea.

Thanks HanksMom:
Can you verify that there has been no significant change in Hank's stooling (odor, frequency, consistency, etc)? If that seems to be the case, it may be prudent to consider another course of the Fenbendazole because Giardia is simply stated; is oftentimes difficult to eliminate! The dosing that you reported is certainly in the "ballpark" at the very high end however. You mentioned using a 3cc syringe and I would strongly recommend that only a 1cc syringe be utilized for any further dosing that you may perform!

One of my primary concerns with all medications obtained without an original prescription (and I use these also as do many others in the animal care world because is is usually notably difficult to get a prescription) especially when they are used and there is no apparent improvement or resolution to the original problem; is whether or not the expected medication is actually present and if so, was the labeled concentration accurately formulated! Hope and trust is all we have!

Some options now would be to repeat another dosing protocol of the Toltrazuril OR repeat a dosing protocol (slightly modified from your original and based upon a current weight) OR even consider finding another source for one or both of the medications used. There are other options as well, including just continue to observe Hank. Personally, my leaning would be to try another Fenbendazole treatment protocol. Hopefully others will offer their comments and suggestions and all could be considered before you make any decision. Fortunately, on a relative scale, Hank has only mild signs of problems and his continued normal appetite, fluid intake, activity and interaction with you are very good signs!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[hanksmom]

Thanks HanksMom:
Can you verify that there has been no significant change in Hank's stooling (odor, frequency, consistency, etc)?
The odor is still the same, hasn’t changed at all. I have noticed today, his stomach isn’t as tore up as it has been, with him frequently going and me constantly cleaning up behind him. He had diarrhea as shown in the picture earlier, followed by the one with the mucus and others that looked firmer, but still very soft

If that seems to be the case, it may be prudent to consider another course of the Fenbendazole because Giardia is simply stated; is oftentimes difficult to eliminate! The dosing that you reported is certainly in the "ballpark" at the very high end however. You mentioned using a 3cc syringe and I would strongly recommend that only a 1cc syringe be utilized for any further dosing that you may perform!
The rehabber that guided me on the pancur knew about the syringe I had on hand, but I am not sure if she read what I had or she did and asked me to send a picture making sure I understood the correct dosing. I will include the picture of the syringes I used

One of my primary concerns with all medications obtained without an original prescription (and I use these also as do many others in the animal care world because is is usually notably difficult to get a prescription) especially when they are used and there is no apparent improvement or resolution to the original problem; is whether or not the expected medication is actually present and if so, was the labeled concentration accurately formulated! Hope and trust is all we have!

Completely agreed! I also wonder if his gut will have to get stable as well, since he’s had all kinds of medication so far

Some options now would be to repeat another dosing protocol of the Toltrazuril OR repeat a dosing protocol (slightly modified from your original and based upon a current weight) OR even consider finding another source for one or both of the medications used. There are other options as well, including just continue to observe Hank. Personally, my leaning would be to try another Fenbendazole treatment protocol. Hopefully others will offer their comments and suggestions and all could be considered before you make any decision.
I am following yours and any other senior members guidance and trust you all will lead me in the right direction


Fortunately, on a relative scale, Hank has only mild signs of problems and his continued normal appetite, fluid intake, activity and interaction with you are very good signs!

Yes! He is still active and playing! He was out for about 4 hours and he was non stop! He just went to his bed for his nap!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Thank you all for the continued support!!

[hanksmom]

The 3 ml syringe I used for Pancur

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

The 3 ml syringe I used for Pancur

I would still recommend using a 1cc syringe! It permits a much higher degree of accuracy than does a 3cc syringe!

May I suggest awaiting other's comments and suggestions regarding strategy during the next 24 hours or so and hopefully some will be forthcoming and you can consider those comments in your decision making! I, of course, am NOT abandoning you and I will check back with your thread regularly!
Regards,
StS

[hanksmom]

I would still recommend using a 1cc syringe! It permits a much higher degree of accuracy than does a 3cc syringe!

May I suggest awaiting other's comments and suggestions regarding strategy during the next 24 hours or so and hopefully some will be forthcoming and you can consider those comments in your decision making! I, of course, am NOT abandoning you and I will check back with your thread regularly!
Regards,
StS

Of course!! I was thinking of giving him a break from meds for a few more days as well to see how he progresses. I am thinking of adding a little more food as well, starting with some lettuce and any others that may be suggested?

[hanksmom]

Just wanted to update, little speck of blood in this stool. Nothing much, probably an irritated gut? Still active, eating and drinking!

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Just wanted to update, little speck of blood in this stool. Nothing much, probably an irritated gut? Still active, eating and drinking!

Hi HanksMom:
I'm sorry to hear that Hank had what certainly appears to be blood in his stool! Just to ask; especially since you were considering adding to Hank's diet; is it possible that Hank ate something that is red or contains some red dye and that this might not be blood at all?

Is this the first time you have noticed blood in Hank's stool and has there been one or more recurrences since this incident and along the same line of questioning; has Hank had other stools since this episode that appear to free of blood? I cannot tell you the definitive cause for the blood that you see but the fact that the blood seems quite red and actually ON the feces, not IN the feces MAY be suggestive of some sort of localized area in the large bowel or rectum that is irritated and bleeding or as can sometime occur; there may even be a tiny cut or raw area in the anus (the hole that the poop come out of) and the blood originated there.

Bleeding originating higher up the GI tract in the small bowel where there is no formed stool would be very unlikely to simply show up as a distinct drop of blood on the fecal surface and would tend to be mixed into the stool! Please ask Hank if he would permit you to take a look at his "back side" just to check for something such as an anal cut or abrasion that might be the source of bleeding and maybe even dab a piece of soft tissue gently over the anus and check to see if any blood shows up on the tissue.

Again, it is very good that Hank still exhibits normally activity and appetite and maintaining his hydration!

Any further thoughts on redosing the Toltrazuril (a short break and then repeating dosing of Toltrazuril is a common strategy when this medication is used) or repeating the dosing of Fenbendazole (Panacur)?

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[hanksmom]

Hi HanksMom:
I'm sorry to hear that Hank had what certainly appears to be blood in his stool! Just to ask; especially since you were considering adding to Hank's diet; is it possible that Hank ate something that is red or contains some red dye and that this might not be blood at all?

Is this the first time you have noticed blood in Hank's stool and has there been one or more recurrences since this incident and along the same line of questioning; has Hank had other stools since this episode that appear to free of blood? I cannot tell you the definitive cause for the blood that you see but the fact that the blood seems quite red and actually ON the feces, not IN the feces MAY be suggestive of some sort of localized area in the large bowel or rectum that is irritated and bleeding or as can sometime occur; there may even be a tiny cut or raw area in the anus (the hole that the poop come out of) and the blood originated there.

Bleeding originating higher up the GI tract in the small bowel where there is no formed stool would be very unlikely to simply show up as a distinct drop of blood on the fecal surface and would tend to be mixed into the stool! Please ask Hank if he would permit you to take a look at his "back side" just to check for something such as an anal cut or abrasion that might be the source of bleeding and maybe even dab a piece of soft tissue gently over the anus and check to see if any blood shows up on the tissue.

Again, it is very good that Hank still exhibits normally activity and appetite and maintaining his hydration!

Any further thoughts on redosing the Toltrazuril (a short break and then repeating dosing of Toltrazuril is a common strategy when this medication is used) or repeating the dosing of Fenbendazole (Panacur)?

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

That’s the only time this has happened. The rest of the stool has not had any blood on it or in it. I did add some iceberg shredded lettuce, about a handful a day. That’s it so far. There’s no blood around his bottom at all.

His stools still smell horrid and are extremely soft with a little diarrhea and goes back very soft.

Tomorrow will be 7 days with no medication. I can try Toltrazuril again for 3 days. The last dose was Feb 27th. Should I give same amount?

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

That’s the only time this has happened. The rest of the stool has not had any blood on it or in it. I did add some iceberg shredded lettuce, about a handful a day. That’s it so far. There’s no blood around his bottom at all.

His stools still smell horrid and are extremely soft with a little diarrhea and goes back very soft.

Tomorrow will be 7 days with no medication. I can try Toltrazuril again for 3 days. The last dose was Feb 27th. Should I give same amount?

Hi HanksMom:
If you did want to pursue a redosing of the Toltrazuril, I would recommend utilizing the same dose, frequency and duration. With the "horrid" odor persisting; as mentioned before, Giardia is also a reasonable culprit to suspect. Even though you have dosed Hank with what would ordinarily be an effective dosing of Fenbendazole; Giardia is oftentimes difficult to eradicate and redosing of the Fenbendazole might also be an option to be considered. My personal suggestion would be to NOT dose both drugs at the same time for a number of reasons! Also, the concern that I voiced in another post is still on my mind and that we really can't be certain that EITHER of the preparations that have been used are accurately represented by their labels! Just a nagging thought! Probably repeating the dosing of one or the other would be the best option at this time.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[hanksmom]

Hi HanksMom:
If you did want to pursue a redosing of the Toltrazuril, I would recommend utilizing the same dose, frequency and duration. With the "horrid" odor persisting; as mentioned before, Giardia is also a reasonable culprit to suspect. Even though you have dosed Hank with what would ordinarily be an effective dosing of Fenbendazole; Giardia is oftentimes difficult to eradicate and redosing of the Fenbendazole might also be an option to be considered. My personal suggestion would be to NOT dose both drugs at the same time for a number of reasons! Also, the concern that I voiced in another post is still on my mind and that we really can't be certain that EITHER of the preparations that have been used are accurately represented by their labels! Just a nagging thought! Probably repeating the dosing of one or the other would be the best option at this time.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Should I do the pancur instead? I know I wouldn’t be able to get a prescription from a vet for anything, unless I reach out to the rehabber to see if she would be willing to send me Albon? I haven’t heard from her however since early last week. The pancur came from our local feed store, but the Toltrazuril came from the company we discussed in some previous posts. I’m willing to do either medication again. Dosing for pancur be the same or different? I will listen to whatever you think is best. He weighs 560-563 grams

[hanksmom]

Should I do the pancur instead? I know I wouldn’t be able to get a prescription from a vet for anything, unless I reach out to the rehabber to see if she would be willing to send me Albon? I haven’t heard from her however since early last week. The pancur came from our local feed store, but the Toltrazuril came from the company we discussed in some previous posts. I’m willing to do either medication again. Dosing for pancur be the same or different? I will listen to whatever you think is best. He weighs 560-563 grams

I also have the other meds on hand that the rehabber sent to me as well.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Should I do the pancur instead? I know I wouldn’t be able to get a prescription from a vet for anything, unless I reach out to the rehabber to see if she would be willing to send me Albon? I haven’t heard from her however since early last week. The pancur came from our local feed store, but the Toltrazuril came from the company we discussed in some previous posts. I’m willing to do either medication again. Dosing for pancur be the same or different? I will listen to whatever you think is best. He weighs 560-563 grams

I believe I would be tempted to try the Panacur! I'm at work and must take care of some isdues. I'll get back just as soon as I am able to help with dosing. I seem to remember that the dose from your rehsber was rounded up and toward the high end but ok and if Hank's weight has increased since the, the dose may be perfect. I just can't get to the calculation right at the moment and may be even a couple of hours. Sorry!
Regards,
StS

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Dosing recommendations for Panacur (fenbendazole) sent by PM!
StS

[hanksmom]

Dosing recommendations for Panacur (fenbendazole) sent by PM!
StS

I received the PM with dosage for his weight, I have included a picture to make sure I have the correct line!

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I received the PM with dosage for his weight, I have included a picture to make sure I have the correct line!

Probably! It appears that your finger is a bit past the 3rd small mark following the large 0.2 mark but I don't see the next mark. When filling the syringe, the plunger line should be at the 4th small mark past the 0.2 large mark. If that is where your fingernail is pointing; that is the correct line!
StS

[hanksmom]

Probably! It appears that your finger is a bit past the 3rd small mark following the large 0.2 mark but I don't see the next mark. When filling the syringe, the plunger line should be at the 4th small mark past the 0.2 large mark. If that is where your fingernail is pointing; that is the correct line!
StS

Yes, that’s where I was pointing! Perfect, thank you!

[hanksmom]

Yes, that’s where I was pointing! Perfect, thank you!

We can’t win for losing I feel like. This just happened. Not sure if it’s the pancur working or not. He was sitting high up when he let this go, that’s why it’s splattered like it is. But, he’s not had any blood in his poop all day, until now. I got the f10sc cleaner in yesterday, diluted it as stated and cleaned down his critter nation cage and wiped it back down. Could it be that?