Malocclusion? Advice needed

[Rnowroo]

Hi I’m new, this is my first rehabbing experience.

Teddy was probably around 10 days old pinky, found after major rainstorms from hurricane in area.

Teddy is almost 11 weeks old now.

Found at approx 10 days old.

His teeth have been growing in like this, but I have had to trim the bottoms bc they would hit the roof of his mouth and not let him suckle the miracle nipple at about 5 weeks. At that time his incisors were peeping out and they were already crooked and I hoped the trimming of the bottoms would let the tops have the chance to straighten out.

They did not straighten out.


But if I give the nut in the shell, and start it for him a bit, he can’t open it. I haven’t been able to find smaller in shell nuts to give him other than allmonds which would be more difficult .

The incisor that juts out more than the other and I think that’s why it broke off recently (I think a fall when he was jumping from my night table to his cage as he often does, but didn’t get a good grasp and fell)

It broke so low that it looked like it just never existed. Luckily the root was intact and it was back in about 2 days. I was having a heart attack at the time and monitoring him for any signs of infection in his mouth, and started a mbd protocol incase his teeth were weak from that or something.

ANYHOW long story LONG (sorry)

These pics are of him sleeping but Let me know if I should take them in a different position or in a different way.
I will post them in the reply to this message

Side note- while I have you here, is their ear wax supposed to be like a black color? I try to clean them when he’s sleeping once a day lightly with a q tip when he sleeps just to keep things clean and bc he seems to enjoy it

Also sry im new - I apologize in advance if i dont have the right customs or protocols for politeness i missed!

🙏🏽❤️

[Rnowroo]

Here are the pics, I’ve waited each time to when he’s sleeping so that I don’t have to touch his jaw or face to show his teeth but I’m not sure how you’re supposed to take malocclusion evaluation pictures!

I have a rehabber nearby who I sent the pics to but she said she couldn’t tell if it’s a malocclusion or not.

The one where I have a q tip to help show his teeth, is when he had the broken incisor and the one that is left is the one that sits farthest inward in his mouth (towards the throat) bc the one that broke was the one that stuck out of his mouth more (the other pics are of when it grew back / aka now)

[Rnowroo]

This is just some pics of him being cute as a thank you for your time reading this post 😂

[Spanky]

It may be helpful (at least for me?) to see the tips of his lower incisors.

I'd wait a while until the shorter of the 2 incisors is about the length that the longer one is now and trim them to be the same length. Then it will be a wait and see what happens kind of situation.

I'd not panic that an 11 week old is unable to open nuts just yet. Many can and some cannot at this age... but I don't even provide any nuts until they are a few weeks older yet. Does he eat any nuts or seeds?

Could you share what formula he was raised on and if he is still taking formula? Also, his current diet. I ask because he was placed on the MBD protocol so a review would be a good thing IMO.

[Rnowroo]

to see the tips of his lower incisors —>I’ll try to get one when he’s sleepy tonight !

—> thank you, will do about the trim when the shorter incisor comes In a bit more!

Does he eat any nuts or seeds:

Sometimes as a treat I’ll hide two or three thin slices of almond in a box of crinkle paper for him to forage and dig in and find. It probably totals 1/3 of an entire almond though.

I gave him a walnut the time I was curious to see if he could open it, but that was it.

what formula he was raised on and if he is still taking formula:

The formula I started on for the first 3 weeks was the puppy Esbilac with the calcium carbonate, then at 3 weeks I started the FV 20/50 but he was so skinny still, so I got the ultra boost to add to it.

Later on his coat came in but never grew in a big symmetrical way along his body. his skin was just pink . I did some research and added bio salts to the first and last feed of the day and his bald patches turned purple and grew hair a day or two after that.

Currently :

I still give him the 20/50 formula with the ultraboost. But the ultraboost is almost done and I’m probably going to just give him the regular 20/50 after that.

He wouldn’t eat the first rodent blocks I got him, which I started offering a few days after his eyes opened.
So I tried the teklad 2018, which he still would not eat.
So THEN I made boo balls and then he still won’t eat that.
And now today I made a picky eaters block at home and he ACTUALLY ate that. So that was a miracle.

He also gets fresh veggies like escarole, watercress, arugula, spinach, broccoli, squash, cauliflower, collard greens, endive lettuce, cabbage, radicchio. I give him slices or pieces of dehydrated fruits like apple and strawberry here and there. he nibbles on things but not much else.

He still has formula, he just never really has it in one meal, he usually wants to have just up to 8 ml at a time, and then I have to wait 40 min- 1 hour and he’ll have another 8 ml and its very touch and go, sometimes he only wants 3 ml. Which drives me nuts bc he’s supposed to have way more than that if he’s 230 grams….


But he’s energetic and he licks water from a little bowl with pebbles in it to keep it shallow.

He only likes chewing on pinecones, the bark of a hickory wood log I have in there, an apple branches

He has lava stones and antlers but he doesnt care for them.


His poop is very light pale tan color, so I figured his calcium intake is ok,

the one thing I was worried about was sunlight exposure. My room doesn’t get much light, and he only has the UVB reptile light on all day on desert mode, which I always worry doesn’t work like the sun does ,

so I either leave the window open with just the screen so it’s not filtered by glass (infront of the cage) , or
sometimes after he’s done playing and wants to nap, I take him to sleep on my lap while I sit infront of the open balcony door so he gets bright sunlight but still enjoys the cool indoor temps of the house.

When I started making sure he got sunlight on the balcony (when he was little we could sit out there for a few minutes at a time, his eyes were closed and he wasn’t very mobile- and that was what made a huge difference in his ankle bones and leg use.

So I do that now again taking him to be in the sunniest area of the house while I work on
My laptop and he naps.

[Rnowroo]

now his bottom tooth has broken off, but this is bloody-

he bit a plastic button on my white shirt , and then he wiped his face on my shirt and I saw it was bloody (my shirt is white)

Happened in a second ! Then I saw His bottom tooth had broken off and I picked it up-
Long tooth.
Then checked his mouth and im not sure what to do now bc its deep and its bloody and i dont see a root in there- he’s been happily playful all morning since, and still eating and Nibbling greens and eating his boo balls.

I have children’s ibpprofen the liquid drops, but I don’t know how to dose it. Poor guy!!

Now I’m extremely worrried it’s MBD and I don’t know what to do about his broken tooth.

[Spanky]

now his bottom tooth has broken off, but this is bloody-

Long tooth.
Then checked his mouth and im not sure what to do now bc its deep and its bloody and i dont see a root in there- he’s been happily playful all morning since, and still eating and Nibbling greens and eating his boo balls.

Now I’m extremely worrried it’s MBD and I don’t know what to do about his broken tooth.

If he has been raised on formula (Esbilac and then Fox Valley 20/50) and has not been eating a lot of calcium robbing foods (seeds, nuts, dried corn or dried corn foods, meal worms, etc.) you should not have to worry about MBD. And make sure he continues to eat the the rodent block! And continue the formula as long as he is still willing to eat it.

As for the teeth, the incisors are not like human teeth... the "root" of the tooth is way back in the mouth. In fact the lower incisors originate from back of the jaw. They actually grow from the back of the jaw through the lower mandible to emerge in the bottom, front of the mouth. Their incisors are more like a hair or a horn material versus a enameled tooth like humans. So it is not surprising that it is very long and also that one might think the entire root or something came out. That also means it will take quite a while for it to grow back and (hopefully) re-emerge.

[Rnowroo]

Oh thank you so much I was really stressing out about the MBD!


I’m Finding he's eating the picky blocks and now and the boo balls I just have to give them tiny bits at a time! And I’ve started putting the formula in a tiny very shallow plate/dish for
Reptiles - so he licks it out and then he has
More!

Hallelujah.

I have to trim the teeth soon, everyone pray for me since he doesn’t have his deep post meal coma naps anymore.
which means I’m
Going to have to, actually wrap him awake and he’s not Going to Be happy…


He used to legit let me file
Them While He slept. I REALLY hope
He doesn’t hate me and not
Trust me after.

But at least I’ll be able
To get a before pic of the top
Of the bottom tooth like i was supposed to
For the malocclusion check

[Rnowroo]

It may be helpful (at least for me?) to see the tips of his lower incisors.

I apologize about the photo quality…

I took photos before I trimmed And then after trimmed the top to be more equal. And so they weren’t blocking the top of the bottom tooth.

(I trimmed the bottom after …but I didn’t get a chance to take a pic after I was done filing them bc he was waking up too much.)

From one side it looks like he only has one top tooth but that’s it just blocks the other that dips behind and is pointy at the bottom rather than square and straight like the front tooth.


I hope this is the right type of photo to help someone tell me if it’s malocclusion or not …
And I also hope him only have his 1 bottom tooth doesn’t make the analysis more difficult
For you!




I do notice though that he doesn’t really get bites of things, he more pulls and makes them stringy. Like wood and veggies. I put a picture of the endive he ate- but I’m not sure how it normally looks when they finish eating something since this is my first squirrel experience.

[Spanky]

Just in case this is new information, the top incisors on a squirrel can actually move and move independently of one another. So I wonder if the fact that they are moving / moved is what is worrying you about the teeth.

I'd NOT trim those top teeth for a while...

AM I seeing things or has the broken off lower incisor begun to emerge?

Lastly... malocclusion is a condition where the upper and lower incisors do not meet adequately to come together and help keep the teeth worn down (along with chewing on other things). Otherwise, the teeth continue to grow until they are overgrown and become a serious problem.

In order to help determine if there is a malocclusion it will be necessary to wait until the teeth grow out to a more "normal" length and then see if the necessary wearing starts to happen. That likely will require that one longer bottom tooth to be trimmed as the broken off one grows out until they are the same lengths.

For now, I would assume there is no malocclusion.

[Rnowroo]

Fantastic news! Thank you for all the info and the instructions - so helpful !
Don’t worry I won’t trim the tops (those are post top trim pics where they are short)

I will say, I have no idea what normal lengths are for the top and bottom…is there a diagram/ picture reference of normal teeth length from the front ? Can’t find any myself online !

I was worried it was a malocclusion since the bottoms kept getting so long it they looked like they were about to hit the roof of his mouth.
But I always intervened with a trim bc every time the bottom would hit a particular length - his appetite dips hard bc he gives up on things everything quickly-
But then the day the bottoms are trimmed , he goes back to a normal healthy appetite, and chewing more things etc and can actually drink the formula normally again without all the struggling/ crazy side to side head-maneuvering. So confusing.

Also…You’re right!! the broken off lower incisor has begun to emerge! I can’t believe it showed up So quick

Thank you again,
R

[mel_la_fee]

Based on your photos, it’s hard to tell if there’s a malocclusion, but I’ve never had to trim the teeth of babies that didn’t have it (fwiw). Once they start ‘testing’ solid food -even if they can’t eat it yet- and chewing on things (5-7 weeks), as long as there are appropriate chewing materials in the enclosure, they should be wearing them down naturally and evenly by 11 weeks. Upper incisors grow much slower than lower incisors, so it can be hard to tell there’s a problem if you’re mostly looking at the upper teeth.

His lower incisors are getting out of control (one looks really long before you trimmed it) so things aren’t lining up appropriately. It’s also concerning that teeth have just broken off. It probably is malocclusion -if only minor- but not MBD based on your diet. You might have an infection affecting his jaw bone or skull though, and his sleepiness/toleration of filing and tooth pics is related to a fever or the general weakness of being ill.
They are very good at hiding how ill they are or how bad they feel, right up until it’s very dire. I’d personally look for a vet right away. I’ve never had a healthy baby, even with malocclusion, sleep through teeth filing.

Maybe that’s just my experience and I think you’re doing an excellent caring job overall. But I suspect something else is going on and you want to know sooner rather than later if something worse is happening.

[Rnowroo]

It probably is malocclusion -if only minor- but not MBD based on your diet. You might have an infection affecting his jaw bone or skull though, and his sleepiness/toleration of filing and tooth pics is related to a fever or the general weakness of being ill.

Maybe that’s just my experience and I think you’re doing an excellent caring job overall. But I suspect something else is going on and you want to know sooner rather than later if something worse is happening.

Thank you! Sorry I keep not replying to these threads- I get this extreme worry that I’ll jam up the recent activity area and someone with serious emergency won’t have their post seen. I also lost this thread and I made another and I don’t know how to merge them.

Update is that his front top tooth broke again, bleeding. He was chewing on a shell. I literally do not give him nuts at all anymore - only the ones that are already in the blocks.
( I got a bigger UVB light (it’s 46 inches long) and i ordered nano calcium to put a tiny bit in his water. And he nibbles on his cuttlebone but not much else )
I also got a thermometer for the ear so I can know if he gets a fever. It’s coming in the mail.

He also is so easily bored by the Henry blocks (picky and wild) and the homemade ones. So I’ve started taking them and mushing them with one teklad and then adding Organic baby food so it’s a paste in the morning , and he finishes it (as long as I alternate the baby food Flavors �� )

And then boo balls and formula at night. He’s still a big formula fan. Of course veggies am and pm after he eats his blocks.

I took him to the vet and she said “ he’s definitely not releasable” bc his teeth are “odd” bc they grow white and one kind of never comes out as more than a jagged nub on the top. And that they were very thin.

She said he might have fought a virus when he was young and it affected his teeth formation.this makes sense with his legs not working when he was young and he had weird hair symmetrical balding.

she said he is too young for an odontoma, and he seemed fine otherwise, said he was a good weight, and she prescribed antibiotics and a pain reliever. He seems dehydrated a bit so she did the under the skin hydration bubble thing.

His tooth was back the next day, they grow so fast it went from under gumline to the same length at the other top tooth within 4 days! Is this normal?

Anyhow, I can’t get him to take the antibiotics. I tried putting a bit of pineapple juice at the front of the syringe to trick him but he just shakes it out and I can’t get it in there. Any advice anyone?

The vet didnt do an X-ray though, but I’ll be going back to get his bottoms trimmed in an week and I’ll ask her to do that then maybe. Since he still doesn’t eat anything that isn’t soft.
Would antibiotics and soft foods be enough to help if it was some deeper bone issue?

( trim with sedation is 180$!!!ah! I really need to learn how to do it on my own with a dremel, but I also don’t want to traumatize him.)

[Rnowroo]

Hello ! I thought in case anyone later stumbles along this thread and has a similar issue with their little one, that an update would help!


So I decided the only way to know if he truly had a malocclusion (now that I knew I had a ve who could dremel his teeth nearby) was to let them grow and see if he could keep them under control on his own or not.

I would check his mouth, his bottoms were getting super long, and it was making me nervous but i would look at his roof of his mouth, and if all was ok, I’d let him be.

Slowly I saw his teeth were no longer blunt at the ends but pointy! Hallelujah

So I let them keep growing, and the bottoms are super long but it doesn’t hit the roof, and I think it’s the length he needs to have them touch. The top teeth are much longer as well but pointy and straighter.

The lack of orange in his teeth: they are getting darker.
The light is helping! And the nano calcium in the water. I’ll put links to both at the bottom when I gather them! And I’ll add pics when he lets me take them!
Once they were darker and pointed,
I finally let him try to open a walnut ( he would break his teeth often so I didn’t want to give him one to assess with until They were a proper darker orange so I knew they’d be strong enough.)
AND HE OPENED IT! The next time I gave him a nut was a pecan and HE OPENED IT!
It does take him like about 7-10 minutes for a pecan but I’m so proud.


And now I have started to plan out how to softly release him gradually, to help him “wild up” by spring.
And in the meantime I can keep an eye on his teeth to make sure they don’t ever show signs of over growing- just to be sure,

I can’t explain how happy I am to think he could have a chance to be outdoors with the world and explore and have a full life.

I love him dearly, and I am extremely scared he will be eaten- which I know he will bc that’s the cycle of life, but I want to know he had a full long life before hand.

I’m doing my best to make sure he can climb and jump (my room is basically just cat wall furniture or homemade jumping shelves on the walls and sisal ropes hanging on the ceiling everywhere hahah)

But this is for whoever is reading this to know, if your little one has signs of malocclusion , don’t lose hope!
Teddy’s teeth are finally better and he is opening his first nut technically at 22 weeks old.

Wilding up will be a process but he’s worth it and he deserves a chance at a real squirrel experience outside of my boring room with only me as a friend.

[Rnowroo]

Hi again friends-

I have an update and I’m a tiny bit worried. And some side questions- if anyone could be so kind as to give me some guidance please

1- squeaking sound when sniffing things

Teddy always had a click sound from his nose when he was curled in a ball - since he was young. Not lungs though and only in certain positions where his head is down .

When the vet saw him after his tooth broke - I told her about it, and that his nose squeaks sometimes like he’s congested. She said it was likely due to the tooth breaking (it bled) .
And that his mouth nose area was likely
Inflamed temporarily.

But now I notice there’s still a lot of squeaking sounds when he sniffs anything.

And I don’t know if I’m just paranoid now but he feels somehow warmer the past few days.
And I got an inner ear thermometer and I try to get it to aim at the inner ear opening and it said 101 last night.

On other threads on here it said that is normal for eastern gray.
The readings weren’t as high tonight I couldn’t get one higher than 99

But his nose squeaking everytime he sniffs makes me feel suffocated for him.
He seems fine otherwise but everyone always says they seem fine when they aren’t until it’s really REALLY bad.


This morning I realized he hadn’t done as much of his normal routine of waking up and running circuits along his wall and cieling jumping and running platforms - I know this bc my sleeping head is usually one of the jumping platforms in the circuit. Or sometimes it’s a pit stop
Where he decides to pee mid-circuit (it’s an efficient alarm clock to the say the least) good thing I sleep with my goggles next to me. I might have a bloody face and pee in my mouth or hair most mornings sometimes but my eyes are always safe 😂

AND he’s been dehydrated I feel from the pinch test even though he drinks water .

Poops have also been much smaller in circumference (see photo)

Any thoughts on if these are bad signs and I should go to the doctor quickly? Could it be that it’s really dry in my room? Bc it is - my nose is bloody from how dry it’s been since we’ve had the heating on for a recent winter weather dip in temperatures

2) I bleed so much no matter the clothes

, my hands and legs and back and neck and shoulders at extremely bloody so I trimmed his nails - but it still hurts me through my clothes.
Is there a trick to this? Bc it’s still cutting me through my clothes- any tips


And I also apologize for posting on here so often.

3) I was also wondering, the areas that had been bald when he was younger and eventually grew have a different kind of fur- the hair is a lot thinner- I was just wondering if that would be an issue when it comes to release . It’s not super noticeable but it’s definitely visible.


Thank you so much
I also added pics of him from this morning

[Charley Chuckles]

What a doll is that a harness he has on so cute.
I'll just give a word of advice for you and him. Get a cool mist humidifier fill it with distilled water ( distilled keeps your humidifier free of calcium buildup unless you have good tap water, I'm in Florida and I won't even drink my water 🙄 )
Just make sure he can't chew the cord.
I have a huge floor model and it's on 24/7 for over two weeks now. My squirrels fur was getting spiky looking so once I started adding humidity it solved the issue 👍

My Conker back in the day breathing issues, I'd hold him in the cool mist and he would breath it in, he liked it made us both feel better 😁

[Rnowroo]

Hallelujah Thank you- I’ll try the cool midst/ humidifier asap!

His energy level /activity was closer to normal today too

And thank you about the harness!
His one and only time letting me put it on him for a brief moment 😅😂

I put one of his baby bald-phase photo for a chuckle - he looks like a tiny little chick 🐥 thank god for this squirrel board or I wouldn’t have been able to hear about the bio salts

This squirrel board continues to be such a blessing

Thank you again for the advice

[Rnowroo]

Here’s a final update on Teddys teeth

The full progression of his teeth

Oct Nov Dec and now jan (6 months old )

He broke each top tooth 1x , and the bottom incisor 1x for a total of 3 breaks.

They are now pointy, deep orange, and strong !

And he can actually chew things and opened his first in the last few weeks .

Hopefully this can help others !

Sorry the I can’t seem to get the pictures to show up in order but they are labeled