Infant with possible pox?

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hi, StS, I checked my scale and reweighed this little boy. I also weighed various items, with known weight, to assure the accuracy. He is 35g. I know he is small. His incisors are in and his coat is smooth, not fuzzy anymore. I feed by weight only and feed every 3 hours, with hydration in between. Formula temp is good according to candy thermometer. So, I am guessing he is closer to 3 weeks of age? A lot of his scabs started falling off today.

Unfortunately, I found a lesion on his sister's mouth this afternoon. She is 45g and looks great. She came from the same place and finder and covered in the same dirt under the same tree. In my research I have found the incubation period is 7 days to 2 months! they have been seperated for 10 days. Can I put her with her brother in isolation? I am just devastated over this 2nd baby.

He is on full strength FV 20/50 at this point.

Thank you for your help!
tnd5

Thanks Tnd5! It sounds like you are opting for what I have always considered the best approach to utilizing a feeding protocol and that is to feed the babies according to weight and the age group that their actual weight would correspond to rather than to what might an optimal feeding protocol if the weight was consistent with the actual chronological age. The way you are managing feedings will give a "behind in development" baby the best chance to catch up and thrive! Good Job, Tnd5!

I'm very sorry to hear about the new lesion on Sister's mouth! Does it appear to be the similar? When you have a moment, would you please post a photo of Sister's lesion.

When you mention an incubation period, are you referring to Squirrel Pox or something else. If Squirrel Pox, you may very well be correct. What I have always assumed was that the incubation period is no more than 15 days based upon a study of sorts with captive bred Squirrels. In reality, determining an incubation period for wilds is impossible and even in with captive Squirrels in observation, it is still difficult to determine and it would need to be know when a particular Squirrel had the virus definitively transmitted! I would appreciate the opportunity to review any information you might possess about this Squirrel Pox! Thanks!

In a "sort of" answer to your question about putting these babies together, my opinion would be, at least for now to avoid it for several reasons. I am not sure that Brother has Pox and I am not sure that Sister does either BUT, if either does have Pox and the other does NOT, it can be spread to the one who is currently Pox-free! This also goes for other conditions that may be transmissible so I would again suggest that these two Little Ones be kept separate at least a bit longer. Just another comment for what it may be worth and that is that while there are often "classic" skin lesions for a particular skin disease or dermatologic manifestation of a systemic disease; there are variations and because of this; what may appear as similar lesions in different animals, the underlying cause may not actually be the same disease.

Thanks again for your devotion, love and the excellent, conscientious care you are providing to your Squirrels and thanks again for being here with us on TSB! You are helping others as much as much as or more than we may be helping you!

Please keep posting updates!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[tnd5]

Thanks Tnd5! It sounds like you are opting for what I have always considered the best approach to utilizing a feeding protocol and that is to feed the babies according to weight and the age group that their actual weight would correspond to rather than to what might an optimal feeding protocol if the weight was consistent with the actual chronological age. The way you are managing feedings will give a "behind in development" baby the best chance to catch up and thrive! Good Job, Tnd5!

I'm very sorry to hear about the new lesion on Sister's mouth! Does it appear to be the similar? When you have a moment, would you please post a photo of Sister's lesion.

When you mention an incubation period, are you referring to Squirrel Pox or something else. If Squirrel Pox, you may very well be correct. What I have always assumed was that the incubation period is no more than 15 days based upon a study of sorts with captive bred Squirrels. In reality, determining an incubation period for wilds is impossible and even in with captive Squirrels in observation, it is still difficult to determine and it would need to be know when a particular Squirrel had the virus definitively transmitted! I would appreciate the opportunity to review any information you might possess about this Squirrel Pox! Thanks!

In a "sort of" answer to your question about putting these babies together, my opinion would be, at least for now to avoid it for several reasons. I am not sure that Brother has Pox and I am not sure that Sister does either BUT, if either does have Pox and the other does NOT, it can be spread to the one who is currently Pox-free! This also goes for other conditions that may be transmissible so I would again suggest that these two Little Ones be kept separate at least a bit longer. Just another comment for what it may be worth and that is that while there are often "classic" skin lesions for a particular skin disease or dermatologic manifestation of a systemic disease; there are variations and because of this; what may appear as similar lesions in different animals, the underlying cause may not actually be the same disease.

Thanks again for your devotion, love and the excellent, conscientious care you are providing to your Squirrels and thanks again for being here with us on TSB! You are helping others as much as much as or more than we may be helping you!

Please keep posting updates!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

I read the incubation period in the Wild Mammal Babies book.

I will keep the two separated for now.

I am posting pictures of Sister's lesion on the side of her mouth.

Thank you

tnd5

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I read the incubation period in the Wild Mammal Babies book.

I will keep the two separated for now.

I am posting pictures of Sister's lesion on the side of her mouth.

Thank you

tnd5

Thanks Tnd5! Sister's facial lesion appears similar to Brother's! How are the antibiotic dosing going? I'm sure that you will be watching Sister and if you elect to try antibiotics with her in the furture, we will of course be here to help you as needed!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[tnd5]

So far, so good. Numerous scabs have and are falling of little Brother. Most of the swelling is gone from his leg. The right dose of Clavamox seems to be helping tremendously.

Yes, little Sister's lesion looks exactly like the ones brother started with. I am keeping a very close eye on her and a non-related girl the same age, that was housed with Sister. I have all 3 babies in their own, separate enclosures now, to isolate them.

I will wait a day or two and see how sister's lesion progresses before starting the Clavamox. If she needs to go on it, I will definately double check with you on the dosage.

Thank you, tnd5

[tnd5]

So far, so good. Numerous scabs have and are falling of little Brother. Most of the swelling is gone from his leg. The right dose of Clavamox seems to be helping tremendously.

Yes, little Sister's lesion looks exactly like the ones brother started with. I am keeping a very close eye on her and a non-related girl the same age, that was housed with Sister. I have all 3 babies in their own, separate enclosures now, to isolate them.

I will wait a day or two and see how sister's lesion progresses before starting the Clavamox. If she needs to go on it, I will definately double check with you on the dosage.

Thank you, tnd5

LIttle Sister's lesion fell off today....ALREADY!!!!! Little Brother's are almost totally gone, too. Now, to get him caught up in his weight and body condition! Thank you so much SamtheSquirrel! You are the one that helped me to save this little guy



tnd5

[supersquirrelgirl]

Any idea what the skin lesion were caused by ?? it was much worse on boy than girl as you said. Anything done different or not done to girl ??

Mr.SSG

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

LIttle Sister's lesion fell off today....ALREADY!!!!! Little Brother's are almost totally gone, too. Now, to get him caught up in his weight and body condition! Thank you so much SamtheSquirrel! You are the one that helped me to save this little guy
tnd5

Thank you Tnd5! You did all the work and did it very well! It's of course not over yet but hopefully the original issues are heading well on toward resolution!

For what it's worth, I suspected the possibility of allergy from the "git-go" and even recommended trying some Benadryl and, further, the appearance of the lesions, scaly but otherwise normal appearing skin, and wide spread edema of an entire limb just didn't appear classically pox-like! If the lesions were manifestations of allergy; I would guess (just as you proposed as a possibility in one of your earlier posts and I responded by saying that it would be best supported by resolution of the lesions with discontinuation of the Goat's Milk Esbilac) it may very well be a hypersensitivity to the Goat's milk and/or ingredient(s) in this particular Esbilac formula! I have never used this particular formula and the only Esbilac Formula I do use is the POWDERED Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer. I do not raise many babies compared with a number of others here on TSB; some of who raise more babies in one season than I have in my entire Squirreling life! I have not heard from others about their using the Esbilac Goat's Milk Formula but I would certainly like to hear from anyone who does! Many of us have used the Home Made Goat's Milk Formula (or some variation thereof) popularized in Henry's Pets Guide to Baby Squirrel Care;
Homemade Goat Milk Formula Plus (HGMF+):
3 tablespoons goat milk
3 tablespoons plain yogurt
2 tablespoons heavy cream
½ egg yolk ( personally, I do NOT use the egg when I make this preparation).

Please keep on with your updates on Big Sister and Little Brother (hopefully on his way to becoming a Bigger Brother)!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[tnd5]

Thank you Tnd5! You did all the work and did it very well! It's of course not over yet but hopefully the original issues are heading well on toward resolution!

For what it's worth, I suspected the possibility of allergy from the "git-go" and even recommended trying some Benadryl and, further, the appearance of the lesions, scaly but otherwise normal appearing skin, and wide spread edema of an entire limb just didn't appear classically pox-like! If the lesions were manifestations of allergy; I would guess (just as you proposed as a possibility in one of your earlier posts and I responded by saying that it would be best supported by resolution of the lesions with discontinuation of the Goat's Milk Esbilac) it may very well be a hypersensitivity to the Goat's milk and/or ingredient(s) in this particular Esbilac formula! I have never used this particular formula and the only Esbilac Formula I do use is the POWDERED Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer. I do not raise many babies compared with a number of others here on TSB; some of who raise more babies in one season than I have in my entire Squirreling life! I have not heard from others about their using the Esbilac Goat's Milk Formula but I would certainly like to hear from anyone who does! Many of us have used the Home Made Goat's Milk Formula (or some variation thereof) popularized in Henry's Pets Guide to Baby Squirrel Care;
Homemade Goat Milk Formula Plus (HGMF+):
3 tablespoons goat milk
3 tablespoons plain yogurt
2 tablespoons heavy cream
½ egg yolk ( personally, I do NOT use the egg when I make this preparation).

Please keep on with your updates on Big Sister and Little Brother (hopefully on his way to becoming a Bigger Brother)!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Yes, little brother was much worse than little sister. Little sister only had the one lesion on the side of her nose and mouth.

I have used the GME on infants ever since the FV 32/40 killed several of my babies, (a few years), and never had a problem. I guess there is always an exception. I am suspecting that you are right and I was/am dealing with an allergy. Little brother started rapidly getting better once I switched them over to FV 20/50. It just seems so strange that it was only on one side of his body. He still has a couple lesions around the left eye and ear, but that is shrinking as I type. You did suggest an allergy and advised Benadryl. I neglected to do that, and I apologize. I was so frustrated, exhausted and overwhelmed, I forgot all about it.

I have learned my lesson on this and so much more through this experience. From now on, I will be using plain, powdered Esbilac or the homemade Goats Milk formula.

I will try to remember to take updated pictures in the morning and post them here.

Thank you,
tnd5

[tnd5]

Any idea what the skin lesion were caused by ?? it was much worse on boy than girl as you said. Anything done different or not done to girl ??

Mr.SSG

Mr. SSG, I have a suspicion it was/is an allergy to the GME I was feeding. Once I got them fully switched over to the FV 20/50 and put on Clavamox, (coincidence ?), the lesions started falling off.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Yes, little brother was much worse than little sister. Little sister only had the one lesion on the side of her nose and mouth.

I have used the GME on infants ever since the FV 32/40 killed several of my babies, (a few years), and never had a problem. I guess there is always an exception. I am suspecting that you are right and I was/am dealing with an allergy. Little brother started rapidly getting better once I switched them over to FV 20/50. It just seems so strange that it was only on one side of his body. He still has a couple lesions around the left eye and ear, but that is shrinking as I type. You did suggest an allergy and advised Benadryl. I neglected to do that, and I apologize. I was so frustrated, exhausted and overwhelmed, I forgot all about it.

I have learned my lesson on this and so much more through this experience. From now on, I will be using plain, powdered Esbilac or the homemade Goats Milk formula.

I will try to remember to take updated pictures in the morning and post them here.

Thank you,
tnd5

You have done very well Tnd5! Your Squirrels are fortunate to have you on their side!
Please continue the updates and maybe some updated photos!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[supersquirrelgirl]

Mr. SSG, I have a suspicion it was/is an allergy to the GME I was feeding. Once I got them fully switched over to the FV 20/50 and put on Clavamox, (coincidence ?), the lesions started falling off.

Great to hear both babies are getting better. Really glad its not the dreaded pox! Wonder what could be in the GME that would cause allergic reaction. Keep up the good work.

Mr.SSG

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Mr. SSG, I have a suspicion it was/is an allergy to the GME I was feeding. Once I got them fully switched over to the FV 20/50 and put on Clavamox, (coincidence ?), the lesions started falling off.

Hi Tnd5:
I don't believe all was a coincidence. The hind limb had significant edema and I suspect that there was a secondary infection at least there! I believe that the Amoxicillin plus Clavulanate was beneficial at that site and there may have been an infection beginning at some of the other crusted sites as well! I'm glad that the Antibiotic was utilized!
Regards,
StS

[tnd5]

Just a quick update. Little brother is doing very well. He is eating with more gusto, peeing and pooping great. He only has one more lesion scab to fall off and that is on the upper lid of his eye. He has gained 6 grams in the last few days. He is looking better, but still a bit behind his sister. When it gets to be about 30 minutes before time to eat, he starts his "mama" call.

Little sister's scab fell off the next day and you can't even tell it was there.

I am so very thankful to SamtheSquirrel,and all that chimed in and helped, for all the time and effort, (and patience), he gave me with this problem I had never seen before in my 10 years of rehabbing.

I am attaching an updated picture of little brother's leg now. So much better!

Thank you all!

tnd5

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Thank you for the update, Tnd5! All is tremendous news! It sounds like Little Brother may break your scales soon! I'm glad he is gaining weight! This is, as you well know; a very good sign! Thank you for your kind comments but you did all of the work (well, you and your Squirrels) and you are a very conscientious, caring, and knowledgeable Rehabber! TSB exists to help those who may need or want it and for exchange of information between Squirrelers! I learn from every thread I read or become directly involved with and so do we all!
Please keep on with updates! I'm glad that your babies are well on their way to optimal outcomes!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hi Tnd5:
How are your little Squirrels doing?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[tnd5]

Quick update. Little brother passed yesterday. He was gaining weight, eating great and all over recovering well. Then yesterday morning, he passed. It was like he just gave up.
tnd5

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I am so sorry for your loss of Little Brother, Tnd5!

A death during convalescence is one the most devastating events in a Rehabber's life of caring for animals! This is a time when all of the emergent and urgent issues are addressed and it appears that the Squirrel is on his way to recovery when seemingly out of the blue, he passes! It is so unexpected and so difficult in most cases to reconcile or determine the cause or causes for the death; coupled with the gut-punch of this happening in the first place; it is truly tragic! Many, if not most of us, have had such deaths occur during the "recovery" period! Many things can go on "behind the scenes," so to speak, while a Squirrel is being treated for an injury and/or a medical condition. Even steady evidence of improvement or even complete resolution does not rule-out inapparent problems that mat exist such as kidney damage leading to kidney failure, development of sepsis, stress reactions similar in part to capture myopathy and a host of other possibilities. Almost never can we know if anything is going on in the "background" that might be destined to result in a setback or unexpected death! Fortunately, most of the time, when a Squirrel seems to be getting better, it will be as it appears and all will be "good," but obviously not always!

You did a tremendous job with Little Brother and are doing a great job with Little Sister! You did nothing wrong and there is no blame to be cast anyway; this is just nature! You gave Little Brother something that most wild animals never receive and that is love! Little Brother crossed the Rainbow Bridge knowing and feeling your love for him and he is now scampering through the Forever Trees, talking with our Squirrels who have passed before him! I wish Peace for you, Tnd5 and please visit here on TSB frequently!

RIP Little Brother! You are loved very much!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[supersquirrelgirl]

Such sad news. I'm quite shocked as everything was going positive. You did everything to help this little boy. Sometimes this happens for strange reasons. I'm sure his siter will missing him. God bless Little Brother and you tnd5!