5 month old red Fox squirrel loss of energy

[Squirelly-Mama1993]

We have a little squirrel girl named Lucy, who is just about five months old. For the last two days, she has been less energetic than usual. She is still eating normally, but seems to not be drinking as much water.
It’s hard to tell because we pull her out of the cage every morning for a little while to eat and play, then we go to work and at lunchtime we bring her back out of the cage for 20 minutes or so to eat and play. Once we get home Around Five we pull her out of her cage for a few hours to play and eat her third block of the day.
Diet: She has two nuts every day, two Small pieces of fruit every day, and probably 3 to 5 Small pieces of healthy veggies every day sometimes a little more on the veggies.
She eats three Henry’s healthy blocks each day. (Still eating fine)
Normally, she is running around the back of the couch, jumping from couch to couch or chair to chair in our living room. These past two days, she has just been perched on the couch. She will play for a minute and then sit there for a while.
I’m not sure if she is unwell or just becoming more tame.
Also, her tail is thinning and seems to be changing color. Plus, she has a tiny little bald spot right at the base of her tail. She’s had that for a few weeks, but it hasn’t changed. I assumed she would have it grown back by now.
I read a few threads about shedding in the summertime, so I’m hoping that is all the hair thinning is but with her current behavior, I’m wondering if they’re connected.

Is this normal? Is there something we are doing wrong?
I don’t think We have been putting her in the sunlight enough. It has been so hot & smoky outside. We haven’t wanted to take her out not to mention that she is afraid of the outdoors for the most part. Do you think it is the lack of sunlight that could be doing this? I have an Avian sun lamp, and Repti sun 10 bulb in my cart to purchase tomorrow, and I will add that above her cage to help add sunlight.

Any thoughts or questions please let me know.

[Chirps]

Hi! Someone who knows more will hopefully see your thread and comment, but I would be concerned about the nuts. Two may not seem like much, and it's good to see she gets her Henry's blocks, but maybe the nuts are still messing with her calcium/phosphorus ratio, and despite your attention to her diet, she might be flirting with metabolic bone disease. I would cut out the nuts immediately for starters.

Others who may use the sun lamps will hopefully comment on their efficacy.

The tail on its own wouldn't concern me. My wilds have varying degrees of the same look with their tails right now. But it could also be another indicator of mbd. (Experts please chime in )

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hi! Someone who knows more will hopefully see your thread and comment, but I would be concerned about the nuts. Two may not seem like much, and it's good to see she gets her Henry's blocks, but maybe the nuts are still messing with her calcium/phosphorus ratio, and despite your attention to her diet, she might be flirting with metabolic bone disease. I would cut out the nuts immediately for starters.

Others who may use the sun lamps will hopefully comment on their efficacy.

The tail on its own wouldn't concern me. My wilds have varying degrees of the same look with their tails right now. But it could also be another indicator of mbd. (Experts please chime in )

Hello Squirelly-Mama1993 and thank you for finding TSB! I agree with Chirps as a place to start! I don't know more than Chirps but I can say what she said more verbosely!

I too suspect the possibility of early Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD). This is a condition where the bones lose Calcium. MBD can result from the Squirrel not getting adequate calcium absorbed from the gut and metabolized by the body OR it can result from having excessive Phosphorus in the diet OR it can result from a combination of these two problems! Just as Chirps has stated, oftentimes, MBD results from a less than optimal Calcium to Phosphorus Ratio in the diet and if this is present for any significant time, MBD can result no matter how much Calcium is actually consumed. An optimal Calcium to Phosphorus Ratio is in the neighborhood of 2 to 1. For a captive Squirrel, the diet should be made up of at least 80% quality Blocks such as HHBs, Teklad 2018 (or Teklad 2014 for more senior Squirrels) or Mazuri Rat and Mouse Diet! The remaining 20% can simply be Blocks but like most people, Squirrels do like some variety and this can be provided by utilizing HEALTHY dietary constituents preferentially and either totally eliminating any treats such as nuts, fruits and seeds! Yes, nuts are treats for a captive Squirrel and if they get any at all, it should be a very rare occurrence! Most of the "treat" category foods contain relatively high levels of Phosphorus and this can lead to MBD regardless of how much Calcium is supplied by other foods! I am pasting a very useful nutritional grading system to help provide the best and healthiest nutritional support for a captive Squirrel that is from Henry's Website. This is in the form of a Pyramid with the most nutritious foods at the wide base of the pyramid and going from the base to the tip; the nutritional value of foods in each level decrease. The lowest level which includes the healthiest foods is "Blocks" and the tip of the pyramid includes nuts, fruits, seed and other "treats" and this level is where the least healthy foods are found; https://henryspets.com/healthy-diet-for-pet-squirrels/

Does Lucy actually consume the entire (or almost) three HHBs or are they simply shredded in which case it can be very difficult to determine how much of the HHBs has actually gone into the Squirrel-tummy (to use the proper anatomical nomenclature-just kidding!)! Henry's states that two HHBs (a typical "serving size") contains 275 milligrams of Elemental Calcium. Around 250mg of Elemental Calcium is a good goal amount for DAILY Elemental Calcium so two HHBs will ordinarily cover that very well. The problem is that 2 blocks weighs about 10 grams and this or even three HHBs (this should be the maximum as HHBs are a concentrated nutritional source unlike the other quality Blocks which can be free-fed which means that you can give the Squirrel as much as it wants in a day), will not provide enough food for satiation (feeling full) and other HEALTHY foods such as other quality Blocks and/or other foods from the lower levels of the Pyramid should be provided as well!

I would recommend additional Elemental Calcium and would suggest that you immediately start the Emergency Treatment for MBD from Henry's Website! As Lucy is already eating HHBs, you are way ahead of most folk who begin this treatment and all that you will need to do is to continue the 2 or 3 HHBs and add some additional Elemental Calcium (my suggestion would be around 250mg of Elemental divided into 4-5 portions given each day. An very good source for this would be Henry's Calcium carbonate! You can get plain Calcium carbonate on-line or in most food stores or pharmacies BUT if you do go this route, get Calcium carbonate that is withOUT Vitamin D. These preparations are made for people, not tiny animals and those that contain Vitamin D or any other constituents will contain far to much for a Squirrel and could cause harm or even death in extreme cases! Again, just PLAIN Calcium carbonate which is what Henry's sells. You can use some Tums (which contain Calcium carbonate) until you get the supplement form Henry's or wherever. If this is not MBD that is going on with Lucy, the treatment for it will be harmless and if this is MBD, it can be literally life-saving! Here links to Henry's Information about MBD and their treatment protocol;
https://www.henryspets.com/what-is-m...-bone-disease/
https://henryspets.com/emergency-treatment-for-mbd/

Please let me tell you about the difference between Elemental Calcium and just a source of Calcium such as Calcium Carbonate. As an example, Calcium Carbonate contains Calcium (obviously) but it is not all Calcium; it actually contain only 40% Elemental (or "pure" Calcium). As a very simple example; if you needed 40mg of Elemental Calcium, you would need to weight out 100mg of Calcium Carbonate to get it! From the recommendation I made above; if you were going to give Lucy 250mg of supplemental (given in addition to the Calcium contained in the HHBs) Elemental Calcium each day (again dividing this up into 4-5 portions), you would need to weigh out 625mg of Calcium Carbonate. Also, of the Calcium supplements; Calcium carbonate has the highest percentage of Elemental Calcium at 40% so it requires the least total amount of "stuff!" In comparison, Calcium Citrate contain on 21% elemental Calcium so you would need to weigh out and give over a full day; 1190mg of Calcium Citrate!

Please weigh Lucy using a digital scale expressed in Grams so that we will have a baseline for her weight and we can modify the recommendations if necessary based upon her actual weight!

Another concern that you expressed is the "need" for being outdoors or even getting real or artificial sunlight for Lucy's body to make Vitamin D and I would like to categorically say that when Lucy consumes 2-3 HHBs each day, she is getting plenty of Vitamin D and does NOT need real or artificial sunlight and she does NOT need to be outside. There are potential problems and dangers to being outside and Lucy does not like being out anyway and I would recommend NOT taking her out (she's afraid of the outside anyway) and NOT using the artificial light either! It is NOT needed as long as she is eating her HHBs or other quality Blocks which also contain Vitamin D!

What arrangements and provisions does Lucy have for water? It is essential under any circumstances but especially when you are giving the supplemental Calcium for Lucy to get adequate hydration and this should be in the form of fresh, pure water!

Please keep on with updates about Lucy and please post answers to the few questions asked above!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Squirelly-Mama1993]

Thank you for your responses.

I have been following Henry’s pyramid for the diet for Lucy The whole time. It says right on there that they can have a limit of two nuts per day and two pieces of fruit per day. Which is why I give her that amount. Is that not correct? Is the guide giving me instructions that are potentially dangerous to Lucy?

I am very grateful to hear that It is not the sunlight or vitamin d that has been an issue. She does have freshwater daily. We have two water dispensers for her in her cage, like what you would have for rabbits or guinea pigs. We refill it them everyday.

I will buy the calcium carbonate from Henry’s for her and we can start supplementing with tums in the meantime I have the 1000 mg Tums. If you think that is still the best option let me know.

My scale is too small to weigh her now I’ll have to buy a new one, I bet she is at least 500g though. I’ll try to update this tomorrow morning, is there a safe amount of calcium I can give her in the meantime?

Thank you!

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Thank you for your responses.

I have been following Henry’s pyramid for the diet for Lucy The whole time. It says right on there that they can have a limit of two nuts per day and two pieces of fruit per day. Which is why I give her that amount. Is that not correct? Is the guide giving me instructions that are potentially dangerous to Lucy?

I am very grateful to hear that It is not the sunlight or vitamin d that has been an issue. She does have freshwater daily. We have two water dispensers for her in her cage, like what you would have for rabbits or guinea pigs. We refill it them everyday.

I will buy the calcium carbonate from Henry’s for her and we can start supplementing with tums in the meantime I have the 1000 mg Tums. If you think that is still the best option let me know.

My scale is too small to weigh her now I’ll have to buy a new one, I bet she is at least 500g though. I’ll try to update this tomorrow morning, is there a safe amount of calcium I can give her in the meantime?

Thank you!

Thanks Squirelly-Mama! Henry's Healthy Foods Guide does indeed say to limit the treats to 2 nuts and/or 2 pieces of fruit per day! I am a stickler for diet and proper nutrition but speaking in "general," this may very well be ok for many or maybe even most pet Squirrels BUT I am going to simply give you my take on the Pyramid and on this Nuts & Fruits statement! First off, I do like the Pyramid and most of the detailing that follows! I wish however that Henry's had worded the "treats" comments a little differently!

IF I was writing that section I would have worded it something to the effect that;

"Treats (nuts, fruits, corn, seeds, etc) are NOT necessary for captive Squirrels and while wild Squirrels may eat nuts and a whole lot of other stuff, they are far more active than most captive Squirrels and they have have a wide range of dietary constituents that are essentially unique to the wild population and as such; they have a unique wild food balance. Also, the average wild Squirrel sadly lives a very short time (often less than 1 year) and while we want your Pet to be happy, we also want to maximize the time your have together so we should take special care and take special precautions in regard to your Pet Squirrel's diet! Most Pet Squirrels would appreciate some variety in their diet but their primary food source should be HHBs or other quality Blocks (Teklad or Mazuri) and these Blocks should comprise at least 80% of their daily diet but can actually be up to 100% of their diet.

For bonding and for variety; an occasional nut, piece of fruit or some other treats are ordinarily acceptable but this should be limited and planned! A small piece of fruit is usually fine each day after the Squirrel has eaten all of its daily allotment of Blocks but should be limited to around the size of 1/3 of a Henry's Block. Nuts are obviously loved by Squirrels but they are not healthy for a captive Squirrel and should be limited to 1-2 per week and spaced evenly!"

This may be a very "hard" approach but Nutrition is extremely important and MBD is very real and all should be done to help prevent this since once it develops it can be very serious and even fatal and Squirrels ordinarily are not comfortable when they have this condition. We want to take all realistic precautions in regard to diet and nutrition in order to minimize the likelihood of MBD developing! If MBD does develop, it is essential to simply STOP ALL TREATS then and there and consider resumption of these only when the MBD has resolved.

To be honest with you, Squirelly-Mama, I am not certain that the cause of Lucy's changes in behavior are due to MBD but it is a possibility. The treatment protocol from Henry's is very good and essentially harmless if MBD is subsequently ruled-out but can be curative if this actually is MBD. There are other possibilities that could slow down activity including infections such as a Urinary Tract Infection as just an example; and many more! I would recommend that Lucy be observed frequently for signs of other problems or to hopefully identify other possible causes for her current symptoms and during this "figuring out" phase; I would suggest that she start the treatment for MBD as a precautionary measure and not necessarily because I feel this is definitively what is going on. While in the process of further evaluating things, I would humbly suggest that treats be stopped!

Please keep on with the updates!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Squirelly-Mama1993]

Thanks Squirelly-Mama! Henry's Healthy Foods Guide does indeed say to limit the treats to 2 nuts and/or 2 pieces of fruit per day! I am a stickler for diet and proper nutrition but speaking in "general," this may very well be ok for many or maybe even most pet Squirrels BUT I am going to simply give you my take on the Pyramid and on this Nuts & Fruits statement! First off, I do like the Pyramid and most of the detailing that follows! I wish however that Henry's had worded the "treats" comments a little differently!

IF I was writing that section I would have worded it something to the effect that;

"Treats (nuts, fruits, corn, seeds, etc) are NOT necessary for captive Squirrels and while wild Squirrels may eat nuts and a whole lot of other stuff, they are far more active than most captive Squirrels and they have have a wide range of dietary constituents that are essentially unique to the wild population and as such; they have a unique wild food balance. Also, the average wild Squirrel sadly lives a very short time (often less than 1 year) and while we want your Pet to be happy, we also want to maximize the time your have together so we should take special care and take special precautions in regard to your Pet Squirrel's diet! Most Pet Squirrels would appreciate some variety in their diet but their primary food source should be HHBs or other quality Blocks (Teklad or Mazuri) and these Blocks should comprise at least 80% of their daily diet but can actually be up to 100% of their diet.

For bonding and for variety; an occasional nut, piece of fruit or some other treats are ordinarily acceptable but this should be limited and planned! A small piece of fruit is usually fine each day after the Squirrel has eaten all of its daily allotment of Blocks but should be limited to around the size of 1/3 of a Henry's Block. Nuts are obviously loved by Squirrels but they are not healthy for a captive Squirrel and should be limited to 1-2 per week and spaced evenly!"

This may be a very "hard" approach but Nutrition is extremely important and MBD is very real and all should be done to help prevent this since once it develops it can be very serious and even fatal and Squirrels ordinarily are not comfortable when they have this condition. We want to take all realistic precautions in regard to diet and nutrition in order to minimize the likelihood of MBD developing! If MBD does develop, it is essential to simply STOP ALL TREATS then and there and consider resumption of these only when the MBD has resolved.

To be honest with you, Squirelly-Mama, I am not certain that the cause of Lucy's changes in behavior are due to MBD but it is a possibility. The treatment protocol from Henry's is very good and essentially harmless if MBD is subsequently ruled-out but can be curative if this actually is MBD. There are other possibilities that could slow down activity including infections such as a Urinary Tract Infection as just an example; and many more! I would recommend that Lucy be observed frequently for signs of other problems or to hopefully identify other possible causes for her current symptoms and during this "figuring out" phase; I would suggest that she start the treatment for MBD as a precautionary measure and not necessarily because I feel this is definitively what is going on. While in the process of further evaluating things, I would humbly suggest that treats be stopped!

Please keep on with the updates!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Thank you for the advice SamtheSquirrel.

Starting yesterday, we stopped giving her any nuts or treats. Do you think fruit is still OK at the end of the day like you were recommending? We grow raspberries, blackberries, blueberries, strawberries, plums, and have a baby apple tree. I also grow Romain and we have been giving her that. Of course, Keeping the treats to the Max of two pieces a day.

We did give her quarter of a time so about 100 mg of elemental calcium yesterday. She just ate the tablet all by herself. No need to crush it up. She does seem more energetic today, she did seem a little more energetic yesterday even after just cutting out the nuts. We will continue to limit her nuts, your recommendation of one to two per week spaced out. What other things can we feed her besides the Henry’s healthy blocks for her to eat in a day as you said I don’t think it makes her feel full, especially because we spaced them out throughout the day. should we just focus on the healthy veggies and lettuces or should we find another type block of she can eat more of?

Also, she always wants something to chew we have applewood sticks. Is there something else you would recommend? Can I pull a stick off my plum tree for her?

I do wonder if part of her behavior change has been due to her becoming more docile as she is handled every day and loved on every day since we Rescued her.
I do notice that now if we have the living room window open while she’s out here and a car goes by with a bad muffler she doesn’t get terrified anymore. It seems she has acclimated to our normal noises in our home. We also have three large dogs that bark anytime someone knocks on the door she used to be terrified of this now she doesn’t even react.

I also read online that people put branches in their cage for exercise. We have a six level cage, and the thing that they can climb when you hang it at the top down to the bottom, but she never uses it. She would much rather climb outside of her cage or on her cage.

We just want to maximize her quality of life and how long we have her.


Thank you for all of your guidance. I will keep you posted.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Thank you for the advice SamtheSquirrel.

Starting yesterday, we stopped giving her any nuts or treats. Do you think fruit is still OK at the end of the day like you were recommending? We grow raspberries, blackberries, blueberries, strawberries, plums, and have a baby apple tree. I also grow Romain and we have been giving her that. Of course, Keeping the treats to the Max of two pieces a day.

We did give her quarter of a time so about 100 mg of elemental calcium yesterday. She just ate the tablet all by herself. No need to crush it up. She does seem more energetic today, she did seem a little more energetic yesterday even after just cutting out the nuts. We will continue to limit her nuts, your recommendation of one to two per week spaced out. What other things can we feed her besides the Henry’s healthy blocks for her to eat in a day as you said I don’t think it makes her feel full, especially because we spaced them out throughout the day. should we just focus on the healthy veggies and lettuces or should we find another type block of she can eat more of?

Also, she always wants something to chew we have applewood sticks. Is there something else you would recommend? Can I pull a stick off my plum tree for her?

I do wonder if part of her behavior change has been due to her becoming more docile as she is handled every day and loved on every day since we Rescued her.
I do notice that now if we have the living room window open while she’s out here and a car goes by with a bad muffler she doesn’t get terrified anymore. It seems she has acclimated to our normal noises in our home. We also have three large dogs that bark anytime someone knocks on the door she used to be terrified of this now she doesn’t even react.

I also read online that people put branches in their cage for exercise. We have a six level cage, and the thing that they can climb when you hang it at the top down to the bottom, but she never uses it. She would much rather climb outside of her cage or on her cage.

We just want to maximize her quality of life and how long we have her.


Thank you for all of your guidance. I will keep you posted.

Thank you Squirelly-Mama!

Again, my suggestion would be for NOT giving ANY treats of any kind until or if MBD is definitively ruled-out but if that really is difficult or impossible for you, I can certainly understand and I sympathize with you (and your Squirrel). If you would still the need to offer Lucy a treat, one of the small pieces of fruit each day AFTER she has had her Blocks as I suggested in my previous post would really be ok! One of the problems (and maybe the only real problem) with HHBs is that they are a very concentrated food source and 2 (or 3 at the maximum) HHBs daily will provide a complete daily nutritional requirements and recommendations including MAINTENACE Elemental Calcium! The problem is that 2 HHBs weighs only around 10 Grams while an "average" sized Squirrel may ordinarily consume 50 grams of food daily so HHBs do not provide enough for satiety (feeling full). I would suggest giving the 2 (or 3) HHBs in the morning and then offering another Quality Block in the afternoon. Teklad 2018 is great but it must it is not available in Pet Stores. Mazuri Rat and Mouse Diet, on the other paw; IS available at most Pet Stores and even Tractor Supply and this is a quality Block. Mazuri and Teklad Blocks can be Free-Fed which means that you can give Lucy as many as she wants but again, give these only after she has consumed her HHBs. You can even flavor the Mazuri Blocks with a small amount of Baby food or molasses on the outside of the Blocks but if you want to try the Mazuri Blocks which I would recommend, try them plain first because once you go to flavoring them, they will not ordinarily be accepted without flavoring after that begins!

Another thing I did not mention but should have done so is that especially with HHBs which have no preservatives; a very thorough search should be conducted at least once at the end of the day for stashes. HHBs can spoil quickly and cause illness and even the other hard extruded Blocks such as Mazuri can spoil but the other concern is that Lucy should be eating fresh food and you should know what and how much she is eating every day and stashes make this impossible!

Applewood from a safe source is excellent. Branches to climb upon are important and very worthwhile as a Squirrel's natural destiny is in the trees. IF Lucy has MBD, however, permitting her to access heights and possibly falling could result in fractures as MBD is a form of loss of Calcium form the bones and can render them brittle and fragile! Branches should be clean and free of any parasites. Soaking branches can result in bugs vacating the wood because of the water. You can then shoot the insects (just kidding!!!).

You certainly may be correct about Lucy feeling more comfortable with you as time goes on!

Please keep on with the updates!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel