mbd issues with my eastern grey squirrel

[Nuggets]

Hello.. My 5 yr old eastern grey squirrel has been having problems with MBD since last spring. I used Henry's healthy pets website recommendations to treat it, took him to the vet, where he ended up fracturing his front paw.. He began to improve during the summer, however, not 100 percent.. About two weeks ago, I saw a decline again.. I am very concerned..
At this time, my plan is to change his calcium supplement from avian calcium carbonate to calcium citrate.
I would also like to add healthy origins pycnogenal to his diet, along with magnesium citrate.. I am not sure how much magnesium he should receive.
Btw.. His daily diet consists of one nut square daily, along with leaf lettuce, 2 small pieces of avocado, 1 raspberry, etc.
as a treat he gets one pecan or one walnut. The diet has been modified since he has the symptoms of MBD.
I am very concerned about him since he is walking, but it is very difficult. Thsnk you very much for any helpful advice.

[CritterMom]

Nut Squares... What are these? You mention using the recommendations on Henry's site - are you feeding the Henry's blocks?

We have a member who posts here as Diggie's Friend who can fill you in on the pycnogenol...

[Nuggets]

thank you for your reply. The nut square mix is purchased from squirrelnutrition.com. It is a mixture of pecans, dolomite calcium alfalfa, brewers yeast, vitamin c, rice flour, and coconut oil. there may be one or two ingredients I am leaving out. it is mixed by me with a half cup of his favorite fruit puree. I use banana. Once mixed, it is formed into one inch squares and he gets one a day.
I could not get him to eat the henry's blocks when he was younger, so I had to look around for something else. This seemed to workout well.
I believe I may have been allowing him to have too many nuts last winter and spring... this may have caused the dietary imbalance. I have reduced nuts in his diet.

[stepnstone]

thank you for your reply. The nut square mix is purchased from squirrelnutrition.com. It is a mixture of pecans, dolomite calcium alfalfa, brewers yeast, vitamin c, rice flour, and coconut oil. there may be one or two ingredients I am leaving out. it is mixed by me with a half cup of his favorite fruit puree. I use banana. Once mixed, it is formed into one inch squares and he gets one a day.
I could not get him to eat the henry's blocks when he was younger, so I had to look around for something else. This seemed to workout well.
I believe I may have been allowing him to have too many nuts last winter and spring... this may have caused the dietary imbalance. I have reduced nuts in his diet.

Many of us cringe when we see this being fed...
Can't tell you how many squirrels we have seen on this board that
has wound up with deficient nutrition from being fed this junk.

[Mel1959]

If this has been going on since spring and he has not recovered 100% then, as you suspect, you need to modify what you’re doing. Using the calcium citrate and pycnogenol may help, but I think you need a different block for the foundation of his diet. You should try the Henrys block again, they have a new hazelnut variety that is well liked. I have also had great luck feeding Harlan Teklad 2018 block that has been ground to a powder and mixed with baby food and coconut oil. Since he is already accustomed to the nut squares you make I think you should try adding ground Harlan Teklad block to the mix. The Harlan block must be purchased online. It is a 100% complete nutrition block.

[Nancy in New York]

Many of us cringe when we see this being fed...
Can't tell you how many squirrels we have seen on this board that
has wound up with deficient nutrition from being fed this junk.

stepnstone, have you seen his squirrel formula?
1 Cup of Whole Milk
4 Tablespoons of Heavy Whipping Cream
A few drops of Raw Coconut Oil to each feeding (Optional)

http://www.squirrelnutrition.com/squirrel-formula.html

And he suggests you feed 1-2 mls of formula for each week of age.
That would mean that those 4 eyes closed babies I had a few years back
that were over 200 grams would only get 5-10 mls.

[HRT4SQRLS]

stepnstone, have you seen his squirrel formula?
1 Cup of Whole Milk
4 Tablespoons of Heavy Whipping Cream
A few drops of Raw Coconut Oil to each feeding (Optional)

http://www.squirrelnutrition.com/squirrel-formula.html

And he suggests you feed 1-2 mls of formula for each week of age.
That would mean that those 4 eyes closed babies I had a few years back
that were over 200 grams would only get 5-10 mls.

It’s Bill Sells and the formula is scalded milk.


Nuggets, if you have worked on this since last spring, you need to try a different approach.
Have you tried the Picky Eater block from Henry’s? I wouldn’t feed any nuts at all until the MBD is resolved.

[josh_jess_ollie]

About 2 months ago, I found this around a year old eastern grey at the wood line lying on the ground as I was blowing leaves. He was completely responsive but not alerted or able to run/ hop by himself. He just laid there as leaves were being blowed on him but looked terrified obviously. When I spotted him I got my gloves and picked him up and went to examine him closer. Long story short over the last 2 months he has put on great weight and also has fully healed from what was a hip or left leg injury, presumably from a fall. He was bouncing around, climbing the tree in our front yard, just being a normal squirrel. But sadly late last night around 6-7pm the guy started uncontrollably running extremely fast around the bed until he abruptly went into a seizure. I was crying my eyes out trying to figure out why this was happening to our Ollie. Well after a few intense minutes of looking like convulsions and absolute torture for the baby, it all just stopped and he laid there calm and breathing got back to normal as we comforted him with a blanket. Several minutes went by and our hope came back that he's gonna make it. Well then out of nowhere Ollie jumped back up and started running around, normal at first but a tad bit confused maybe. Then bursts of speed again and running all over stuff and into walls and knocking stuff off our end table which is level with our bed and clings to our curtains after he runs up them as far as he can into the ceiling. He had a death grip on the curtains with his whole body basically. I got him down so he wouldn't fall and the squealing started with most likely the pain he went through and then it stopped again only for another very short one to happen leading to his life leaving him and we watched him stop breathing. He almost immediately became stiff afterwards. We cried and cried for hours last night and said but he was just now getting better and able to play and hop like a normal squirrel. Would this be MBD caused? Or maybe just a history of seizures? We need to know what happened all of a sudden to our baby. He was the best little guy and he loved my wife and I deeply. Wouldn't leave us alone for nothing. Riding through the house on my shoulder running up and down the bed, playing outside in the tree and everything. It was all so random and sudden. Please someone help me find closure that this wasn't something I caused.

[Spanky]

This very well may be MBD. I suggest the MBD emergency protocol be started, since if this is MBD it may save his life and if it is not MBD it will cause no harm.

MBD is largely a result of improper diet over many weeks and months... and it can be reversed, but it takes even longer to reverse completely.

Please share his complete diet... what form he was (or is) on, what brand / type of rodent block is he getting (if any) and all the rest of his diet, whatever it is he eats.

Does this squirrel have a name?

(PS I can create a new thread from your post if you'd like, this will place focus by members on the current issue and not that from the old post... let me know)

[Spanky]

Forgot to post the link to the MBD protocol:

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...dated-3-31-09)

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

About 2 months ago, I found this around a year old eastern grey at the wood line lying on the ground as I was blowing leaves. He was completely responsive but not alerted or able to run/ hop by himself. He just laid there as leaves were being blowed on him but looked terrified obviously. When I spotted him I got my gloves and picked him up and went to examine him closer. Long story short over the last 2 months he has put on great weight and also has fully healed from what was a hip or left leg injury, presumably from a fall. He was bouncing around, climbing the tree in our front yard, just being a normal squirrel. But sadly late last night around 6-7pm the guy started uncontrollably running extremely fast around the bed until he abruptly went into a seizure. I was crying my eyes out trying to figure out why this was happening to our Ollie. Well after a few intense minutes of looking like convulsions and absolute torture for the baby, it all just stopped and he laid there calm and breathing got back to normal as we comforted him with a blanket. Several minutes went by and our hope came back that he's gonna make it. Well then out of nowhere Ollie jumped back up and started running around, normal at first but a tad bit confused maybe. Then bursts of speed again and running all over stuff and into walls and knocking stuff off our end table which is level with our bed and clings to our curtains after he runs up them as far as he can into the ceiling. He had a death grip on the curtains with his whole body basically. I got him down so he wouldn't fall and the squealing started with most likely the pain he went through and then it stopped again only for another very short one to happen leading to his life leaving him and we watched him stop breathing. He almost immediately became stiff afterwards. We cried and cried for hours last night and said but he was just now getting better and able to play and hop like a normal squirrel. Would this be MBD caused? Or maybe just a history of seizures? We need to know what happened all of a sudden to our baby. He was the best little guy and he loved my wife and I deeply. Wouldn't leave us alone for nothing. Riding through the house on my shoulder running up and down the bed, playing outside in the tree and everything. It was all so random and sudden. Please someone help me find closure that this wasn't something I caused.

I'm so sorry for the loss of your little Ollie! You gave this young Squirrel love and care I am sure he knew and appreciated this and without a doubt he loved and appreciated you as well!

In responding to your questions I would like to let you know that it is quite natural when there is a sad outcome for an animal (or person) in our care to blame ourselves at least to some degree and often we look for a means to walk ourselves "over the coals." Most everyone who is an active "Squirreler" or rehabber has had to deal with the loss of one of our Little Ones. It doesn't seem to me that this gets any easier to deal with and the memories of these sad events never go away although the feelings they conjure up become less intense over time while the loss is still felt!

If it is any comfort to you, I suspect that Ollie had sustained a head injury associated with whatever incident preceded you finding him and as happens at times with such an injury, he had seizure activity. It may have been the seizure activity itself that led to the passing of Ollie although most likely the seizures were signs of a terminal condition originating in his brain such as a bleeding or swelling; signs of which also can occur as a delayed complication of an original head injury. I suspect also that it was not MBD that led to Ollie's sudden and totally unforeseen passing! MDB does not develop suddenly and the symptoms do not suddenly appear and then result in near immediate death. MBD is progressive takes considerable time and recovery with treatment takes literally months. There are usually other early symptoms such as decreased activity and appetite. Seizure activity associated with MBD is usually a late sign and by that time, there is very significant decrease in bone mass and it would be impossible to run and jump without extreme pain and most likely secondary fractures. Further, running and climbing are not associated with generalized seizure activity either as these are very coordinated actions and a seizure by it's nature is due to uncoordinated, involuntary nerve activity. Probably Ollie knew something was amiss before and in between his seizures and there may have been pain and fear associated with whatever was going on and probably that was what triggered his running. Your overall assessment of Ollie before this tragic event occurred was that he was essentially back to normal. I can't think of any way you could possibly have known that anything was wrong in the first place and there was nothing that you or even a professional could have done once the events you described began.

Again, this was obviously a very sad and totally unexpected event and I am sorry for your loss of Ollie but you have no blame in what occurred; no one does! I know that at this moment, this will provide little if any comfort to you but time will help as it almost always seems to do. Ollie will live on in your hearts forever although that is certainly not the same as him sitting on your shoulder or scampering about the house! I assume the Jess in your "screen" name is another of Ollie's family members and I wish you both peace!

RIP Little Ollie!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I just noticed where you stated that the other member of the family is your wife. I'm sorry I missed that in your post! My condolences go out to both you and your wife! Again, I am so sorry for your loss of Ollie. Thank you for the love you both bestowed upon this Little Squirrel!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel