Southern Flying Squirrel 1yr old

[Megber13]

This baby was found last May, about 6 weeks old, in a neighbors basement. No nest could be located, so I took her in to be sure she remained healthy until I found out what I could do about releasing her. Because they shouldnt be released alone, I kept her and built a large aviary type enclosure for her while I continued to research how I might get her back to the wild. I ended up wintering her over, wheeling her into the garage in her enclosure. Her diet remained the same, 2 Henrys picky blocks, several nut varieties in and out of shell, fresh fruits and vegetables.
Suddenly, she seemed to not be active overnight anymore. She would pop out to visit me when I came to visit and/or feed her but not her normal acrobatics. She started to have foul smelling loose stool last week, in spite of her being fairly isolated from contaminants. A couple of days ago, I noticed she was hunching over on her way to her food dish, so I moved her to a small enclosure to monitor her more closely. I believe it to be mbd, maybe due to too many nuts over the winter, not enough supplementation (she was never supplemented bc she was given a fortified diet as well as fresh fruits, vegetables, and nuts. She has not had diarrhea since I eliminated nuts and fruits and increased calcium supplementation. After calcium dosages, she seems to perk up, but does not maintain that *up*.
Question is, is this sounding like mbd or something else? She was doing so well, this decline was really unexpected. I am wondering if the extra calcium creates more imbalances, and maybe add the fruit and nuts back in for the phosphorus if the calcium is supplementing at a higher level.

[Spanky]

It takes months for the bones to be robbed of calcium and months to get the calcium back into the bones to build them back up. By the time a squirrel starts exhibiting issues they are extremely silk, usually near death.

Do not reintroduce nuts.... nuts are treats for a squirrel, like cotton candy for a human toddler and for the same reason nuts are not necessary or healthy. It false thinking that supplements or extra calcium can counter act too many nuts. It's like having a diet coke with the wings and fries drenched in ranch dressing and figuring the diet coke counter acts the other food.

As a flyer, she is very social so she will become very depressed living alone for all these months if you are not spending hours with her every single day.

Are you following the MBD protocol?
https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...dated-3-31-09)

[Megber13]

Yes, I am doing an mbd treatment plan. She is sleeping a lot, but she is still quite motivated to socialize with me and go through her salad mixes.
All nuts are like candy to them? I have collected black walnuts, acorns from different oaks, shelled walnuts, hazelnuts, pumpkin and summer squash seeds...I can't imagine there being no nutritional value to a squirrel. But I have eliminated nuts as she is getting them in the Henry blocks if she is choosing to eat them. She also has antlers, and several large tree branches she was using until I moved her to a small cage to prevent possible injury.
I do realize squirrels are social, and she is not in a garage alone. Most of the days were spent sleeping anyways, and nights were for foraging and interacting with us. She has plenty of social stimulation, albeit not of the squirrel kind yet, as I have just finished wintering her over in hopes to release when this health crisis arose. You mentioned she may be "depressed", would it help if I used the pouch again as I did when she was a baby? I also wondered what her recovery period *should* look like based on the symptoms she has exhibited.
I appreciate your feedback

[Spanky]

Yes, I am doing an mbd treatment plan.

:thumbup

All nuts are like candy to them? ...I can't imagine there being no nutritional value to a squirrel.

The ideal diet for a captive squirrel is a 2:1 ration Calcium to Phosphorous (Ca:P). When there is too much phosphorus, the diet is not providing any calcium. This results in the animal "stealing" the needed calcium from it's own calcium source... their bones. Eventually the bones weaken, are prone to easily break, causing severe pain, seizures and it can even result in death.

Wild squirrel seem to be able to eat tons of nuts without MBD materializing. Of course, we have no ideal whet other foods they are eating and we don know wilds are much more active than captive squirrels, which likely also has benefits when it comes to MBD. What we do know is captive squirrels eating more than 2 - 3 nuts a day are at risk for MBD... and for a flyer, I would say 1 nut a day. Squirrels whose diet is primarily nuts and seeds almost always suffer from MBD.

Almonds are the "best" nuts at a ratio of 1:1.8 which is almost reverse of the ideal. Pine nuts weigh in at a whopping 1:35. Sunflower seeds? 1:20.

So when it comes to feeding nuts to captive squirrels it should be considered a "treat", like we would consider ice cream, gummy worms and cotton candy for a toddler... we let them eat candy, but in moderation and only if (and not instead of) they have eaten their healthy meals.

I am not saying there is zero nutritional value in nuts and seeds, but I am saying everything in moderation... and if they eat too many nuts, they will develop MBD.

She also has antlers, and several large tree branches she was using until I moved her to a small cage to prevent possible injury.

The smaller (shorter) cage is a good idea!

She may start to feeling better and stop exhibiting symptoms in days, but it takes weeks if not months for them to build back healthy bones.

[Megber13]

If she seems to decline*, should I up the calcium to the recommended loading dose or just keep it at the therapeutic dosages and hope she bounces back (is there a risk of overdosing Ca?).
I wondered also if anyone can weigh in on the role of sunlight/vitamin D in wild flyers. While the area she was housed is lit by several windows, I did not wheel her in and out in the winter months unless it was above 50 degrees, and I did not have a UVB/UVA bulb on her enclosure. I don't know how much sun these guys actually try to get, especially over the winter. I have gathered mixed information as to whether these guys, like rats, synthesize their own vitamin D (and if they do, would that even mean the sun is not necessary for any of their metabolic processes?).
These are questions I have raised since discovering her health crisis. Though I care very much for this girl, she is not my "pet", and I want her to get healthy so she can go to a more natural environment.

[Spanky]

If she seems to decline*, should I up the calcium to the recommended loading dose or just keep it at the therapeutic dosages and hope she bounces back (is there a risk of overdosing Ca?).

It is difficult to overdose calcium when giving orally. (There are risks of overdosing when giving calcium IV).

If her stools become white / light gray then she is getting more calcium than she can process, so back down the calcium until the stools return to a more normal color.

[QUOTE=Megber13;1347671]I wondered also if anyone can weigh in on the role of sunlight/vitamin D in wild flyers.

While sunlight is a good source of vitamin D, there is vitamin D also in many foods. Henry's supplement blocks are also enriched with vitamin D. And maybe more important, window glass blocks the UVB rays from the sun which is necessary to produce vitamin D from sunlight. Incidentally, window glass does NOT block more harmful UVA rays... too bad the case is not the reverse!

Are you actively trying to locate rehabbers that have colonies they are releasing? Speaking for myself, when I get singleton flyers it is always a challenge finding other flyers to combine into a mixed sex group ("colony") for release... that is both taking in or sending out the babies. I have driven a few hundred miles at times to drop off baby flyers with rebhabbers that are consistently releasing colonies each season.

[Megber13]

Yes, finding a group for her to tag along with was my plan before this happened. I was too late for release in the fall by the time I found a good lead. The last I checked in, there was a group of babies for her to join when the weather got warmer. I had hoped I found a local group here where she was found, perhaps rejoining her own family. Either way, I wanted her to have the opportunity to be a real squirrel someday.
She honestly seems to have gotten worse since she started the mbd protocol. That's why I asked about the UV help (for absorption). Her stool is a pale yellowish more than grey (?), so I've backed off the Ca. She has always had Henrys picky blocks available (though I did provide too many options over the course of the year I have been caring for her) so I am wondering if this is truly mbd that I may have caught too late or if something else could be wrong.

[Spanky]

Her stool is a pale yellowish more than grey (?), so I've backed off the Ca. She has always had Henrys picky blocks available (though I did provide too many options over the course of the year I have been caring for her) so I am wondering if this is truly mbd that I may have caught too late or if something else could be wrong.

Post poop pics... gross, yeah Helpful? Extremely.

Does she actually eat the Henry's?

[Megber13]

I'll see what I can do about poo pix...the color is odd, but the texture is pasty (chalky?) sometimes and others it's more formed like it should look.
The last time I saw* her eat a block was a couple of days ago, though I believe she is eating less than one per day now. Prior to this episode, she was offered more than two Henrys, as far as a variety of fresh fruits, vegetables, and nuts. So I think she would have always eaten two, if she hadn't been given too many other options.
Does anyone ever use the milk replacer as supportive care during these attacks if they aren't eating enough?

[Spanky]

Does anyone ever use the milk replacer as supportive care during these attacks if they aren't eating enough?

Yes. Some have even had luck with them drinking the almond flavored Ensure (or maybe Boost?). But if she'll take the formula, that would be terrific.

[Megber13]

Not sure if this poo pic got uploaded...trying to do it from my phone and wasn't being cooperative. These four turds are from last night and this morning around 4am Still too light in color, however, the second two are a little browner (probably not easy to decipher from a pic tho).
Also, as far as using Esbilac for supplementation as she is trying to recover...does this formula contain the calcium requirements she needs or will this only be for added caloric benefit? I also wondered if anyone uses Nutrical for same reasons.
I am not sure the drastic change in diet was a good idea. It may have been wiser to start at a lower/maintenance dose of calcium vs a high dose, as she seemed to decline coincidentally with the added calcium.

[Spanky]

Yes, there is *some* calcium in the Esbilac.

And yes, it looks from the pics like she is getting more calcium than she can process. I'd cut back on the calcium.. maybe 25% if she is taking Esbilac... and see if her poops darken up. If not, cut back a bit more. If they get really dark, up it some. The idea is to increase until the poops turn light then back off some.

I doubt that adding calcium is related to a decline at all. But it has been several days of calcium and if she is not improving, the possibility that something else is wrong needs to be explored.

I will send you an INFANTS ibuprofen dosing sheet. I' give her a dose of ibuprofen and see how she responds. MBD can be painful and ibuprofen is often used.