Food Data Chart Update: Calcium to Phosphorus Ratios

[Azure15]

I've updated the chart to include some missing foods. Chart 2 is in alphabetical order, listing milligrams of calcium to milligrams of phosphorus per 100 grams of food, along with the ratios. Chart 3 ranks them highest to lowest as far as ratio of calcium to phosphorus. This is for informative purposes only, not to incite debate on what foods have what (e.g. pumpkin seeds). In addition, if anyone inclined to do the math, he or she can weigh one gram of food "A" with "X" number of milligrams of phosphorus and calcium (even micrograms) and balance out "X" number of grams of a food with more milligrams of calcium and phosphorus to achieve the 2:1 balance (assuming your squirrel will eat all of both). I personally don't have that kind of ambition or time, so I wanted to know which foods had the higher calcium to phosphorus ratios (regardless of amount of milligrams of each mineral) so that when I went grocery shopping I could lean toward the healthiest choices. My designations of "Good," "Risky," and so forth are completely arbitrary, and you can make your own decisions about individual foods, but I tried to classify for general categories. I hope this helps some of you.

PS: IR, if a "sticky" means it's one of the post always at the beginning of a thread, I humbly offer that this might be included.

So..for clarity..all these foods on these 2 lists are good to feed greys?

[Diggie's Friend]

Most definitely more to it than (Ca:P) ratio, that is moreover a guide. This is because it is incomplete without including the Calcium:Oxalates ratio of foods also. From a large body of research over 80 years it has been determined that sources that are higher in oxalic acid than calcium, are actually empties, making calcium Ca:P highly inverted, like one source that is in the plant positive to in the body (0:72) (Ca:P) that is considerably worse than the slightly inverted Ca:P ratio sources are. For what appears to be good source of calcium can't deliver it to the body.

This is what Kohman found in his research back in 1939 and has continued to be reconfirmed in more recent rat research since. Since this time our soils have continued to drop in calcium, phosphorus, and magnesium, being damaged by earlier poor farming practices, followed by the addition of nitrogen fertilizers, then pesticides and herbicides, and lastly in this century, GMOs and Glyphosates. As a result many of the formerly positive Ca:P ratios that vegetables once had have become inverted, and the oxalates have also risen making many once healthy vegetable sources no longer able to provide calcium to the diet.

I've been working on a new chart for sometime, which includes many more sources and shows not just the Ca:P ratio, but also the amount of calcium and phosphorus and oxalates levels, along with the adjusted Ca:Ox ratio. This will make it eEasier to avoid the 'weeds' (those sources that are very high in ratio of (Ca:P) in the plant, but provide no calcium to the body once digested and worse lower calcium in the foods that they are digested with) at a glance.

The good news is that for many sources, (but not all), which would not provide bioavailable calcium when consumed raw, boiling reduces the oxalic acid making most of the calcium that they contain bioavailable. One of these is broccoli, which noly lowers in calcium content by a very small amount, all of which otherwise would not be bioavailable raw anyway. For the greens that are good sources of bioavailable calcium, like some kales, when frozen then boiled it increases calcium by volume measure. Boiling also makes some vegetables more digestible, and lowers their pH which can cause the urine pH to be alkaline that lends to calcium loss instead of gain.

[Thomas]

Thank you. This has been very help full.

[Diggie's Friend]

Here are more studies on this same issue (see pdf files)

[Vocaldiva1212]

I asked one one of my other post but noone has responded so I thought id try here anyone no if I can give my peralized five to six week g
round squirrel crushed up banana flavor cuttlebone if I grind it up really fine will it help him all he's been doing is sleeping pretty much

[Mel1959]

Are you trying to treat him with calcium supplement? What for? You can do that with tums or straight calcium carbonate or citrate...no added vitamin D.

What’s his story? How long have you had him? What are you feeding him? Or if he’s weaned, what formula did you feed? If he’s weaned does he eat a rodent block like Henrys or Harlan Teklad?

I believe ground squirrels’ diets are somewhat different than grays and I’m not familiar with them. A background will help us understand what’s going on.

Sorry your post got overlooked.

[Vocaldiva1212]

Hi a dog threw him up in the air eight days ago he is peralized I've had him for five days now he looks about five six weeks and I kept hearing about the calcium if he's peralized and all the good stuff that he needs well he's kicking his feet sometimes when I stimulated him I thought maybe I could nurse his bones back with it but if tums is the way to go I'll return the cuttle bones today do u think there's any chance he may not be peralized he doesn't move much at all I'm still finding the foods he needs he's on esbolac but it'd hard to get him to eat any liquid he just doesn't want it and curls in a ball he only wants banana lol witch I now no is a treat not a food oops but you guys are really helpful I appreciate any ideas and advice u have for me and nugget .

[Newbiewnc]

This seems like an amazing list of information. Thank you so much. I am now going to ask a very uneducated question. I’m new to all of this so could you explain what the calcium to phosphorus ratio means for squirrels nutrition. I appreciate the schooling.

[CritterMom]

It mostly has to do with avoiding metabolic bone disease. The idea is to maintain a general ratio in the entire diet of 2 parts calcium to every one part of phosphorus. This can be more challenging than you think - there are WAY more high phosphorus foods than high calcium foods. It is not helped by the fact that the things they LOVE like corn, nuts, sunflower seeds, etc., are all very high in phosphorus.

Metabolic bone disease is awful and we see it ALL THE TIME. Many people mistakenly start their squirrels on a high phosporus diet of seeds and nuts once they wean from formula, which has the proper balance. Then within a month or so they come to the board because their squirrel is suddenly paralyzed in the back end.

As the calcium in the body goes down, the bones, which are a source of calcium begin to be "cannibalized" for lack of a better word - the body leaches the calcium from the bones which become weaker and weaker until they begin to fracture. Calcium is also involved in proper muscle operation - low calcium affects whether or not they contract properly and that is vital even for digestion - muscles contracting is what moves food through the digestive tract. At the end stage, MBD (metabolic bone disease) causes seizures and then death.

I saw your other post and the HHBs are EXCELLENT but you need to also remove the sunflower seeds from the treat mix you are giving. If your squirrel actually had MBD we would be having you supplementing with high doses of calcium and switching your diet to the HHBs so you are in pretty good shape other than the sunflower seeds. The HHBs were actually designed with MBD in mind - the person who owns Henrys is a TSB member and Henry was her squirrel.

[Newbiewnc]

Thank you again. The MBD is really scary and that’s what I want to avoid at all costs.
I think better if I just scrap this fiesta mix. I was trying not to waste it because I have a whole bag but it sounds not too good. Should I trash it or can animals in my woods benefit from it. I dont want to make any critters sick. I’ve got some more Henry blocks on the way and also ordered envivo rodent food that was recommended from another post. Just a little slower delivery I guess due to all this virus stuff. I’ll keep checking back for any other suggestions. This site is really a godsend as I’m trying to learn to be a good squirrel momma.

[CritterMom]

Thank you again. The MBD is really scary and that’s what I want to avoid at all costs.
I think better if I just scrap this fiesta mix. I was trying not to waste it because I have a whole bag but it sounds not too good. Should I trash it or can animals in my woods benefit from it. I dont want to make any critters sick. I’ve got some more Henry blocks on the way and also ordered envivo rodent food that was recommended from another post. Just a little slower delivery I guess due to all this virus stuff. I’ll keep checking back for any other suggestions. This site is really a godsend as I’m trying to learn to be a good squirrel momma.

I am sure your wilds will love it. They don't depend on you for 100% of their diet so they are also eating things that will balance this stuff. The envigo is good stuff too. Your squirrel won't like them as much as the HHBs probably but they are very hard, and so good at keeping teeth in good shape.

[Beecheykeen]

I've updated the chart to include some missing foods. Chart 2 is in alphabetical order, listing milligrams of calcium to milligrams of phosphorus per 100 grams of food, along with the ratios. Chart 3 ranks them highest to lowest as far as ratio of calcium to phosphorus. This is for informative purposes only, not to incite debate on what foods have what (e.g. pumpkin seeds). In addition, if anyone inclined to do the math, he or she can weigh one gram of food "A" with "X" number of milligrams of phosphorus and calcium (even micrograms) and balance out "X" number of grams of a food with more milligrams of calcium and phosphorus to achieve the 2:1 balance (assuming your squirrel will eat all of both). I personally don't have that kind of ambition or time, so I wanted to know which foods had the higher calcium to phosphorus ratios (regardless of amount of milligrams of each mineral) so that when I went grocery shopping I could lean toward the healthiest choices. My designations of "Good," "Risky," and so forth are completely arbitrary, and you can make your own decisions about individual foods, but I tried to classify for general categories. I hope this helps some of you.

PS: IR, if a "sticky" means it's one of the post always at the beginning of a thread, I humbly offer that this might be included.

Hey I have a question, I do not have a phone right now, and that is how I previously looked at these very handy charts. Well now I'm just on laptop till further notice, and when I open the charts, microsoft keeps trying to get me to buy OpenOffice. Is there a way I can view these without office? I'd even be happy to get charts 2 and 3 emailed in a way I can read them.

[CritterMom]

Hey I have a question, I do not have a phone right now, and that is how I previously looked at these very handy charts. Well now I'm just on laptop till further notice, and when I open the charts, microsoft keeps trying to get me to buy OpenOffice. Is there a way I can view these without office? I'd even be happy to get charts 2 and 3 emailed in a way I can read them.

Go to the first page of this thread, to post #17. One of the members converted them to .pdf files.

[meliscanan88]

Thank you so muchThis will be very helpful to me.

[Dinomacc]

So ideally you only feed the foods in the good and fair columns?