Twitching but not a seizure? Very concerned :(

[mel_la_fee]

My little neuro, Cleo, had seemed 'off' ever since I got home today. It's super late now but I just can't fall asleep without having some idea what's wrong. She was just curled up in her cage and didn't immediately jump up to greet me like usual. I thought maybe it was because my partner fed her and she didn't need/want anything else from me (though that would be odd for her- it was already past her bedtime). But now she's doing this thing where she twitches every couple of seconds. It's not a spasm so much as a shiver of sorts. It doesn't seem to stop for more than a few seconds whether she's awake or sleeping.

For her part, she's very sleepy, but has proven she can get up and move like usual. Twice now I have set her on the bed to check her out and both times she has taken off and climbed into her favorite box of clothes in the closet (it's one of those cloth storage things you can get on hsn- not cardboard). She also ate half a Henry's block (though I'm pretty sure she'd already had her 2 for the day).

Right now she's just sleeping, and beyond the twitch seems normal. I honestly thought maybe she was having or was about to have a seizure earlier, but it never turned into anything I could identify as one. No obvious spasms, not even a frozen stare. She has seemed pretty aware the whole time (other than being sleepy and angry with me for keeping her up). The twitching is very faint and does not stop her from moving around.Well, tbf, I'm not even sure it's happening when she's moving around. I only know it happens when she's sitting still in my hands or curled up to sleep.

I honestly can't explain what the matter is, other than I just have this feeling than something seems...'off'. I recently released 5 of my rehab babies- so maybe I'm just projecting my worries about them onto the girl I have or something? I dunno. Just in case, I dosed her with honey, calcium, and antibiotics because I did notice that she had a slightly runny nose. The calcium was just in case, but can they even get MBD when they get HHBs everyday??? The honey was in case it IS a seizure and I'm just not registering it as one (she is a neuro after all).

She's just over a year old and 285g. Also, she's not a chewer... Like, she might bite down on the Terry cloth of a robe or my finger, but she's never chewed anything in the house. Not even toys, edible logs, paper towel rolls, nothing... So it would be strange if she ingested something.

I don't know guys... Maybe I'm just losing my mind. What do you think?

[Nancy in New York]

My little neuro, Cleo, had seemed 'off' ever since I got home today. It's super late now but I just can't fall asleep without having some idea what's wrong. She was just curled up in her cage and didn't immediately jump up to greet me like usual. I thought maybe it was because my partner fed her and she didn't need/want anything else from me (though that would be odd for her- it was already past her bedtime). But now she's doing this thing where she twitches every couple of seconds. It's not a spasm so much as a shiver of sorts. It doesn't seem to stop for more than a few seconds whether she's awake or sleeping.

For her part, she's very sleepy, but has proven she can get up and move like usual. Twice now I have set her on the bed to check her out and both times she has taken off and climbed into her favorite box of clothes in the closet (it's one of those cloth storage things you can get on hsn- not cardboard). She also ate half a Henry's block (though I'm pretty sure she'd already had her 2 for the day).

Right now she's just sleeping, and beyond the twitch seems normal. I honestly thought maybe she was having or was about to have a seizure earlier, but it never turned into anything I could identify as one. No obvious spasms, not even a frozen stare. She has seemed pretty aware the whole time (other than being sleepy and angry with me for keeping her up). The twitching is very faint and does not stop her from moving around.Well, tbf, I'm not even sure it's happening when she's moving around. I only know it happens when she's sitting still in my hands or curled up to sleep.

I honestly can't explain what the matter is, other than I just have this feeling than something seems...'off'. I recently released 5 of my rehab babies- so maybe I'm just projecting my worries about them onto the girl I have or something? I dunno. Just in case, I dosed her with honey, calcium, and antibiotics because I did notice that she had a slightly runny nose. The calcium was just in case, but can they even get MBD when they get HHBs everyday??? The honey was in case it IS a seizure and I'm just not registering it as one (she is a neuro after all).

She's just over a year old and 285g. Also, she's not a chewer... Like, she might bite down on the Terry cloth of a robe or my finger, but she's never chewed anything in the house. Not even toys, edible logs, paper towel rolls, nothing... So it would be strange if she ingested something.

I don't know guys... Maybe I'm just losing my mind. What do you think?

Can you give us some background/history on your little one?
Why is she a non releasable? You mention Neuro, was she head trauma?
Does she have other issues other than being Neuro?
What is her diet like, meaning everything that she actually eats, not
just what you offer.
Can you post a picture?

The thing that smacks me in the face is her weight of 285 grams and her being just over a year old.
Is this a typo?
I've had 8 week old squirrels that weigh more, that's why I'm asking.

[mel_la_fee]

Sorry Nancy, I meant 385. I'm writing this on my phone. Her thread from when she was still struggling with solid food can be found here:

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...to-Solid-Foods

She suffered extreme head trauma when she was found and had seizures for days when she first came to me. Now she's much better but still extremely attaxic. Poor motor control (cannot sit up to eat unless she has something to lean on). She does not jump or walk normally. Her cage is a very low single tier cage with a padded bottom because she falls often and easily. Because it's small though, were do not keep her in it for long. And usually she's anxious to get out the minute I get home.

As to her diet, I do not leave much in the way of food in her actual cage. She could easily injure herself on a bowl and I try to keep her cage clean - as she flops around on her side when trying to get anywhere. She gets hand fed throughout the day so we know she eats all of her blocks. She also gets offered greens & veggies (which she mostly hates but will eat a little of) like broccoli, carrots, sweet potato, tomato, cucumber, kale (her least favorite), cauliflower, etc. She also gets fruits like apples, cantaloupe, grapes, etc. Recently she's been getting an almond or so a day because I read it was good for preventing seizures and I was concerned that she was having 'absent' ones. HHBs are her favorite though and only ever struggling to eat them when she's not feeling well (which seems to be the case this morning- as she only just ate half).

She also struggles to drink from a water bottle. She can do it, but it seems to be difficult for her and she gets tired of trying before she's actually swallowed enough water (most of it goes down her face), so I offer her water in a syringe just to make sure she stays hydrated.

Her nose is very snotty at the moment, so I'm wondering if this is related to a cold. Trying to get ahold of my vet now but so far no one has picked up :/

[Nancy in New York]

Her nose is very snotty at the moment, so I'm wondering if this is related to a cold. Trying to get ahold of my vet now but so far no one has picked up :/

OK the diet looks really good.
Yes the almonds are what helped Owena when I was babysitting her.
Actually discovered it by accident. She had a seizure so severe, I thought she was going to pass.
The following day, I gave her a few more of her favorite nuts, almonds, figuring if she was going to pass from
a seizure she will pass happy. Her seizures started subsiding almost immediately. What used to be weekly
seizures are now probably 6 yearly if that!

The snotty nose, now stands out to me. Have you checked her teeth lately.
If she has problems eating on her own, I'm wondering if she is keeping her
teeth trimmed down herself. Most likely she can't hold anything long enough
to keep chewing on it, right?

I hope you can get a hold of the vet, even if just for a quick check up.

I know you probably already do this, but keep offering her water OFTEN.
Dehydration can cause lethargy.

[LR]

If what you are feeling is not reminding you of a seizure does it feel more like a tremor or or short shiver? All through her body or which parts?

[mel_la_fee]

A tremor is a great word for it. I can feel a faint shudder throughout her whole body. We just got back from the vet and the consensus seems to be that this could be due to pain caused by a bad sinus infection and/or her lower teeth getting too long and hitting the roof of her mouth.

She has pretty bad malocclusion that I keep at bay by trimming. She absolutely abhors it though and is incredibly hard to hold her when I'm doing it (children's benadryl has an opposite affect on her so she's never sedated or drowsy at all). I can generally only knock the tips off. I also can't get the top one myself, as it splits into multiple fibers and grows back toward her throat and I'm afraid of it splintering into pieces that she could accidentally swallow. Fortunately the top teeth grow slower, so every few months or so we have the vet actually file everything down. She was only just coming up on the next dental appointment, so if her lower teeth are bothering her now, it could only mean that I didn't trim them far enough a few weeks ago

As of now, the vet doesn't think it's safe to trim her teeth while she has this infection. They actually gas her for these appointments and with her other respiratory problems, there's concern about her being able to get enough oxygen while she's under. Sooooo...we have an appointment next tues for the teeth trimming. I'm thinking in the meantime, maybe I should try to knock them down a few mm myself just to ensure she gets more comfortable. I hate the idea that she's in so much pain right now that it could be causing her to shiver like that. I also think that if it's not from pain, we need to get everything else sorted out so that we can rule it out as a cause.

[Nancy in New York]

A tremor is a great word for it. I can feel a faint shudder throughout her whole body. We just got back from the vet and the consensus seems to be that this could be due to pain caused by a bad sinus infection and/or her lower teeth getting too long and hitting the roof of her mouth.

She has pretty bad malocclusion that I keep at bay by trimming. She absolutely abhors it though and is incredibly hard to hold her when I'm doing it (children's benadryl has an opposite affect on her so she's never sedated or drowsy at all). I can generally only knock the tips off. I also can't get the top one myself, as it splits into multiple fibers and grows back toward her throat and I'm afraid of it splintering into pieces that she could accidentally swallow. Fortunately the top teeth grow slower, so every few months or so we have the vet actually file everything down. She was only just coming up on the next dental appointment, so if her lower teeth are bothering her now, it could only mean that I didn't trim them far enough a few weeks ago

As of now, the vet doesn't think it's safe to trim her teeth while she has this infection. They actually gas her for these appointments and with her other respiratory problems, there's concern about her being able to get enough oxygen while she's under. Sooooo...we have an appointment next tues for the teeth trimming. I'm thinking in the meantime, maybe I should try to knock them down a few mm myself just to ensure she gets more comfortable. I hate the idea that she's in so much pain right now that it could be causing her to shiver like that. I also think that if it's not from pain, we need to get everything else sorted out so that we can rule it out as a cause.

Did the vet put her on antibiotics?
I wished he would have trimmed the bottoms a little
with no sedation, or does he use a dremel?

[mel_la_fee]

Yes, Cleo will be on a Baytril compound for her weight for the next 7-10 days.

She uses a dremel, which I suppose is why she didn't want to try without sedation. I wish she'd been able to as well though. I could have restrained Cleo for her if necessary and we might have been able to get something taken care of. :/

When we do it at home, I have to have my partner hold her for me while I do the trimming, but he's a nervous type and loosens his grip or flinches a lot when I'm just about to make a snip. Which means I have to stop and re-set myself (and her) in order to make sure I cut at the right angle without nipping anything else. And filing them afterwards... You'd think I was killing both of them! It can be rather frustrating (and traumatic), so you can see why I can't get them very low on my own. In the very beginning I could hold her and trim by myself and it was much easier on all parties. But she's too rambunctious at this point and her juvenile teeth were SO much easier to snip. I think if the vet had been willing to let me hold her, we could've managed it well and quickly this morning, and Cleo would already be more comfortable... I guess there are liability issues with doing that though :sigh:

[mel_la_fee]

Just an update... Out of her 4 block feedings (I half 2 blocks to make 4 pieces she gets throughout the day) she only ate most of the first one. She left most of the 2 midday feedings on the floor and wouldn't eat the 4th at all. I couldn't trim her teeth this evening because my partner hasn't gotten home from work to help me. We work split shifts so one of us is home most of the day but we're home together for only short periods :/ I know she wouldn't eat her veggies or even an almond for either of us.

I finally took a hint from what sb member czarina had told me back when Cleo didn't want to transition to solids, and I dissolved/mushified an HHB by repeatedly heating it for short periods in the microwave with water. Only 10-15 seconds, let it sit for a while, repeat. I didn't want to kill any nutrients by over-heating but warm water definitely speeds up the dissolution process. I then added probiotics to help with the antibiotics she's taking and a tiny bit of honey. I'm still a little paranoid that she's had seizures I'm not aware of and especially that her blood sugar might drop if she's barely eaten today.

I then offered this to her in a 10cc syringe with a wider mouth (thus allowing mush -as opposed to just liquid-through) and she gulped it down. It pepped her up enough that she tried to eat regular block after that but reg block proved to still be a struggle. I've been hydrating her since then as I know a high sugar intake from the honey might add to the dehydration already being brought on her her illness.
It's such a delicate line to walk!

Oh, Nancy, you're right. I meant to say earlier but she DOES struggle to hold her food. She's very adaptable though, whatever her damage, and she's figured out that if she lies on her belly with her legs splayed behind her she can focus on a food item and still hold it in front of her. Her primary difficulty is in trying to sit up and eat. Her instincts impel her to try but she ends up falling on her side unless there's something to support her.
Nonetheless, when she's well, she is very vocal and covetous of her food. She is under the impression someone- anyone- else will want that delicious nut-inous for themselves. Not eating today was a bad sign. I really hope it's her teeth. I feel horrible I let them get too long but if it turns out that was main problem it'll be a lesson learned and something we can fix.

She's my little precious and I want her to lead the best life possible after the trauma she suffered