Peekaboo's mouth injury is swelling up and he isn't pooping -- HELP please!

[DixiesMom]

Hi everyone,
3 days ago, I came back from the vet's with a baby squirrel (4-5 weeks old). There was 2 of them someone left in the box, both injured on the mouth. One very badly who was dying and was euthanized right away (so sad to see). Peekaboo, the one I brought back, had a bit of blood from a cut on the mouth. I've been keeping an eye on it since then. Last night, I noticed it looked like it was starting to get swollen, and this morning it got worse. For the moment, I've put some colloidal silver topically, because that is all I could think of and all I had on hand. I'm pretty worried. Here is a picture, so you can see it's not super swollen, but it definitely is. He does not seem in pain though, because he has no problem feeding and has no reaction when the nipple touches the area.



I'm already pretty concerned about Pretty Boy (badly broken arm and paralyzed tail), I need things to be okay with Peekaboo. There is only so much my heart can take and I feel emotionally drained already. On top of what I've just mentioned, Peekaboo does not poop. He only pooped once so far and it was soft.
I feel overwhelmed and alone. What should I do?

[Nancy in New York]

Deep breaths, you have a lot on your plate but we're right here with you.

I don't think the issue of no poop is a concern now. He most likely has
not eaten much before he was found. Sometimes if that's the case they
can go days without pooping. Are you stimulating him?
Make sure he is fully hydrated. Offer hydration, water with a touch of honey
for taste in between formula feedings.

The swollen lip is a concern. Do you have any antibiotics on hand?
Clavamox would be a good choice.
We would need a weight in grams, and the strength in mg. of the
drugs you have in order to dose.

[DixiesMom]

Deep breaths, you have a lot on your plate but we're right here with you.

I don't think the issue of no poop is a concern now. He most likely has
not eaten much before he was found. Sometimes if that's the case they
can go days without pooping. Are you stimulating him?
Make sure he is fully hydrated. Offer hydration, water with a touch of honey
for taste in between formula feedings.

The swollen lip is a concern. Do you have any antibiotics on hand?
Clavamox would be a good choice.
We would need a weight in grams, and the strength in mg. of the
drugs you have in order to dose.

Thank you so much Nancy.
Just to read "we're right here with you" is already helping. I feel so alone at home, with my husband not involved.
I don't have any AB. His weight is 104.5 gr this morning. Since it was a vet who first got him, he was examined by her before I took him with me. She saw the mouth wound. the clinic opens this morning in 15 minutes, so I am hoping they will accept a phone prescription without having to go in person. I don't know if it'll work because the vet who examined him is off today. I don't know where else to get AB... Maybe I'll ask Scooterzmom (a close friend), but I know she only has 1 or 2 left and said she might need it (I had asked for Pretty Boy's broken arm).

At least for the no pooping it is a little reassuring. He is not dehydrated. I make sure at every feeding.

[redwuff]

You could also add infant ibuprofen to help reduce the inflammation/swelling. Watch his teeth as they come in and do check now to make sure he did not puncture his top palate. The antibiotics that Nancy mentioned will take care of any puncture that might have occurred. These babies are quick healers and little Peak will be able to heal with the tender loving care from you.

Trysh

[Nancy in New York]

Thank you so much Nancy.
Just to read "we're right here with you" is already helping. I feel so alone at home, with my husband not involved.
I don't have any AB. His weight is 104.5 gr this morning. Since it was a vet who first got him, he was examined by her before I took him with me. She saw the mouth wound. the clinic opens this morning in 15 minutes, so I am hoping they will accept a phone prescription without having to go in person. I don't know if it'll work because the vet who examined him is off today. I don't know where else to get AB... Maybe I'll ask Scooterzmom (a close friend), but I know she only has 1 or 2 left and said she might need it (I had asked for Pretty Boy's broken arm).

At least for the no pooping it is a little reassuring. He is not dehydrated. I make sure at every feeding.

Well since the vet isn't working today, I would just explain to whomever,
that you got this little one from them, and the wound is now swelling.
You want to nip this in the bud before it gets worse.

[Nancy in New York]

Forgot to mention this in my other post.
Double check his bedding to see if he's pooping in there.
Even little pinkies will poop on their own when they
have to, even long after stimulation.

[DixiesMom]

Well since the vet isn't working today, I would just explain to whomever,
that you got this little one from them, and the wound is now swelling.
You want to nip this in the bud before it gets worse.

I just called the second the clinic opened and explained exactly that. It did not work, because there is no file for him, and no note anywhere. Despite insisting, all I got was a promise that they will try contacting the vet who saw him. I can't just wait around until tomorrow and do nothing. My friend with AB is not an early bird, so I have to wait a little to ask her. I may have found someone, but she lives pretty far from here. If that's what it takes, that's what I'll do. She said she has reconstituted Clamavox. Can you give me the dosage for a 104.5 gr baby, so that I am ready the second I manage to get my hands on antibiotics?

You could also add infant ibuprofen to help reduce the inflammation/swelling. Watch his teeth as they come in and do check now to make sure he did not puncture his top palate. The antibiotics that Nancy mentioned will take care of any puncture that might have occurred. These babies are quick healers and little Peak will be able to heal with the tender loving care from you.

Trysh

Trysh, do you suggest both AB and ibuprofen? That I have at home already, can you help with dosing? I am about to go feed him, I could do it at the same time.

I've never given meds to a baby still on formula. What is the best way to administer? In formula? In water? By itself in a syringe?

Thanks to both of you for helping and for your fast reply. I really appreciate it

[Nancy in New York]

I just called the second the clinic opened and explained exactly that. It did not work, because there is no file for him, and no note anywhere. Despite insisting, all I got was a promise that they will try contacting the vet who saw him. I can't just wait around until tomorrow and do nothing. My friend with AB is not an early bird, so I have to wait a little to ask her. I may have found someone, but she lives pretty far from here. If that's what it takes, that's what I'll do. She said she has reconstituted Clamavox. Can you give me the dosage for a 104.5 gr baby, so that I am ready the second I manage to get my hands on antibiotics?



Trysh, do you suggest both AB and ibuprofen? That I have at home already, can you help with dosing? I am about to go feed him, I could do it at the same time.

I've never given meds to a baby still on formula. What is the best way to administer? In formula? In water? By itself in a syringe?

Thanks to both of you for helping and for your fast reply. I really appreciate it

It's best to administer meds alone with a syringe so that you know exactly
how much they are actually getting.

The Clavamox if it's reconstitued to a strength of 62.5 mg/ml would be a dose of 0.032 twice daily.
That will be only about 2-3 drops. It's a very small amount. If this is reconstitued it should be sweet tasting.
Always give probiotics 2 hours prior or after dosing.
Please come back on the board so we can double check the strength you have.

I will send you the ibuprophen chart for dosing in a pm.
Make sure your strength is 50mg/1.25 mL.

[DixiesMom]

I called the vet's office again. I had decided to go see whoever is there today, but they can't see him before tomorrow (not even sure tomorrow they can).
If I go tomorrow, I was told I should not give any AB before the consult because it will mask what is going on and a culture would not be accurate.


My options are:
- get him on AB without a vet visit
- go tomorrow without treating until then.

What would you do?

[redwuff]

Ask how old the Clavamox is if it is already mixed. It only lasts 10-12 days. It does go bad fast! We always have them give us the powder so we can reconstitute what is needed. If you can get Clavamox see if they will give just the powder and I will tell you how to break it down. Of course Little Peek will just need a tiny amt and then you will have powdered Clavamox on hand for when you need it next.

Since you don't know if you can even get in tomorrow, if he were mine l would start him on meds. I am not even sure why they are talking doing a culture. There are only so many meds used for head and neck. I would use vet to possibly make sure there is not a problem structurally.

[Scooterzmom]

My suggestion would be to start the meds now. I don't really see that they would ask for a culture or such for this type of wound anyway; I would be very surprised. It's important however, IMHO, to start the ABs asap so as to stop the progress of the infection right away. 24hrs is a long time for such a little one when a wound could fester.

As I said, just my opinion, maybe others can chime in on that.

As for the meds, yes, you ocan give the ABs and the painkiller - one takes care of the infection, the other of the pain and easing the pain would make it easier to nurse for the little one.

[UDoWhat]

My suggestion would be to start the meds now. I don't really see that they would ask for a culture or such for this type of wound anyway; I would be very surprised. It's important however, IMHO, to start the ABs asap so as to stop the progress of the infection right away. 24hrs is a long time for such a little one when a wound could fester.

As I said, just my opinion, maybe others can chime in on that.

As for the meds, yes, you ocan give the ABs and the painkiller - one takes care of the infection, the other of the pain and easing the pain would make it easier to nurse for the little one.

I totally agree with the above. There really is not a big reason for a culture other then if it is policy or just to charge more $$. You can use an AB with the Infant Ibuprofen. Make sure it is the Infant strength 50mg/1.25mL. We can dose that for you if you need help.

I can't imagine why the Vet would give you this little one and then tie your hands by not giving you anything to help it. I would let them know (kindly) that this is a "two way street". You will do all the work and even pay for the meds but you need them to help you by letting you buy the appropriate meds. It is too emotional to give you this precious baby only to let you watch it be in pain or.... even worse when the meds you need will save it. That seems very unfair to you. I would try to explain your frustration. You were willing to help them now they need to help you. Seems only fair. It is not like you are asking for "scheduled" drugs. It's an antibiotic !!!!!

Sorry, I don't mean to rant. It is just so hard to see this little one need something that they could easily help you with. Thank you for being willing to help so many of these little ones. Hang in there... like Nancy said we are all here to support you and help in anyway we can.

[DixiesMom]

Thank you everyone for offering both advice and moral support. It is soooooooooo appreciated!

I am now back at home with a box of powder Clamavox. Someone who had it for an emergency gave it to me. So nice of her to help me and my little Peekaboo (I'm so in love with him already!)

So, the box says to mix the whole amount with 14 ml of water and that each ml of that suspension has 50 mg amoxicilline and 12.5 mg clavulanic acid. Doesn't say how much clamavox per ml, just the break down of the 2 compounds. Can someone help me out with the dosage? Also, can I reconstitute just part of it? 15 ml of AB seems like a lot for my little guy. He is now 106.2 gr by the way.

One more thing... A licenced rehabber from QC told me that his lip might just be swollen from the fall, and that it's normal for the swelling to peek after 48 hr (which is today). Her suggestion was to wait until tomorrow and see if the swelling goes down. She says because he has appetite, it doesn't seem like it's an infection. By tomorrow, I'll be able to speak with the vet too. Everyone seems to agree with giving AB right away.... except for that rehabber. I feel a little bit confused.

Thank you so much again xx

[DixiesMom]

The Clavamox if it's reconstitued to a strength of 62.5 mg/ml would be a dose of 0.032 twice daily.
That will be only about 2-3 drops. It's a very small amount. If this is reconstitued it should be sweet tasting.
Always give probiotics 2 hours prior or after dosing.

Just was reading the thread again and realized that this must be what I have, since 50 gr + 12.5 gr makes 62.5 mg. I was checking my inbox for the info but I had it here... Sorry for having my head in the clouds!

[UDoWhat]

Thank you everyone for offering both advice and moral support. It is soooooooooo appreciated!

I am now back at home with a box of powder Clamavox. Someone who had it for an emergency gave it to me. So nice of her to help me and my little Peekaboo (I'm so in love with him already!)

So, the box says to mix the whole amount with 14 ml of water and that each ml of that suspension has 50 mg amoxicilline and 12.5 mg clavulanic acid. Doesn't say how much clamavox per ml, just the break down of the 2 compounds. Can someone help me out with the dosage? Also, can I reconstitute just part of it? 15 ml of AB seems like a lot for my little guy. He is now 106.2 gr by the way.

One more thing... A licenced rehabber from QC told me that his lip might just be swollen from the fall, and that it's normal for the swelling to peek after 48 hr (which is today). Her suggestion was to wait until tomorrow and see if the swelling goes down. She says because he has appetite, it doesn't seem like it's an infection. By tomorrow, I'll be able to speak with the vet too. Everyone seems to agree with giving AB right away.... except for that rehabber. I feel a little bit confused.

Thank you so much again xx

I think it would be ok to wait until tomorrow if this is just swelling. I will look at the pictures you posted to make that judgement, however. Others may weigh in here that have a more accurate opinion of the photos.

I can help you divide the powder. My friend's daughter is a Pharmacist and she showed me and other rehabbers how to divide the powder in 4 parts and how much water to add. I am not home right now but I will try to get the exact instructions and PM them to you. Redwuff can help you too if she is home. I will call her. Give me a couple of hours to get the instructions if you feel you can wait.

PS Clavamox is an older drug that we used alllllllll the time. Then it became not the go to drug. This might be what your other rehabber friend is still thinking but recently Clavamox is back in as a go to drug for this type of wound or infection.

[Scooterzmom]

I totally agree with the above. There really is not a big reason for a culture other then if it is policy or just to charge more $$. You can use an AB with the Infant Ibuprofen. Make sure it is the Infant strength 50mg/1.25mL. We can dose that for you if you need help.

I can't imagine why the Vet would give you this little one and then tie your hands by not giving you anything to help it. I would let them know (kindly) that this is a "two way street". You will do all the work and even pay for the meds but you need them to help you by letting you buy the appropriate meds. It is too emotional to give you this precious baby only to let you watch it be in pain or.... even worse when the meds you need will save it. That seems very unfair to you. I would try to explain your frustration. You were willing to help them now they need to help you. Seems only fair. It is not like you are asking for "scheduled" drugs. It's an antibiotic !!!!!

Sorry, I don't mean to rant. It is just so hard to see this little one need something that they could easily help you with. Thank you for being willing to help so many of these little ones. Hang in there... like Nancy said we are all here to support you and help in anyway we can.

Yes, infant Ibuprofen. Glad you caught that! With all the stress for Hami here I had overlooked that. Could've been a huge mistake.

You go ahead and rant! I do too, all the time about this situation re. meds and vets here.

About the vet not giving meds, it is that way with every vet here!!! My vet who does see my squirrels - and Dixiesmom's - is some 45 minutes drive from my home, back where I used to live before. She will give me meds for my squirrels because she's known me for so long. Law here says they have to have an animal on who's file they can put the meds. Very strict controls here. However... The vets here, where I live now - and everywhere else - do the same thing that Dixiesmom went through all the time: they call you to tell you somebody brought a squirrel in, they ask you if you can take them in but they don't even want to give you a consultation with them, AND they refuse to give you any meds that needs a script or even any if you don't have an animal registered with them that the med in question could be given to. If I have a baby who needs meds I have to call my own vet, she has to be on duty, otherwise nobody else will give me meds.

The local vets used to call me to take babies, injured and sick ones, as well as helathy ones, but refused to give me the meds. I tried and tried. The answer you get is, they're not allowed by law to take wildlife in, could loose their license - and that is BS entirely!!!! I called the college of veterinarians about this! Worse part is: you are even allowed to have squirrels as pets in this province!!! The ministery of Wildlife allows you to have up to 10 without a license! It is the only wild animal you are allowed to keep without a license... and yet no vet wants to care for them. I tried politely to point out how illogical it is to give an animal to someone and not allow them to have medical care or medications to help these animals... but no dice. I tried more forcefully by asking "why would you call me to give me an animal in need and expect me to just stand there and watch him die in my hands?" Nothing for an answer but a pathetic "Sorry, we can't do anything about it".

[UDoWhat]

I see that redwuff has already offered to help with reconstituting the Clavamox and dosing. I will see if I can direct her to this thread or to PM you with info. As I said I am not at home so it would be a few hours for me to get the info to you.

On the lip infection and/ or just swelling, did this little one have bleeding or a wound? Does the lip smell bad or sour? Dose the site have any drainage? These factors would make the difference on whether to begin the AB now or to wait to see if swelling goes down. Just wanting to make sure too.