Bloated and/or constipated 12d baby, followed the steps here, but is still bloated.

[creativedreams]

Hi,

First, this board has been a godsend. Thank you all for posting so much great stuff. We have brought back these abandoned babies from deaths door because of it.

We are following the 5 percent/bodyweight rule for food serving size and are feeding the babies esbilac / heavy cream after rehydrating them with pedialyte. We started with 4 parts water, 1 part esbilac, 1 part hwc, as they were on pedialyte only for the first day as we rehydrated. Once they turned from sullen gray and dried up, to healthy, pink and energetic we moved them on to the formula mixture every other time (rotating formula and fluids each time so they stay hydrated). That went great and the babies made huge progress in the first 48 hours.

This morning, once we were sure they were processing formula without issues, we moved them to 3 parts water, 1 part hwc, 1 part esbilac per guidelines we found. The smaller female seemed to bloat up and or constipate. She was like this for about 12 hours during which we gave her just a few drops of fluid to keep her mouth moist while we researched and followed the below steps. We have not fed her more formula since this morning, 12 hours ago.

1. 1 small drop Vegetable oil rubbed softly into her bottom area to soften her up.
*No results noted yet
2. warm bath up to elbows combined with soft massage on her tummy and sides, which she seemed to enjoy and it relaxed her (I studied massage in general for years so am careful and aware of the delicate nature).
*This resulted in a tiny dropping about .5mm in diamter and about as long as a normal grain of white rice. Super excited to see that. Bloating looked the same.
3. two drops baby simethicone to relieve possible gas.
*This resulted in perhaps 10 percent decrease in bloating up top or in general.
4. one small drop olive oil to help get things moving.
*No results noted.
5. repeated step 1 and 2 with the oil and bath four more times.
*No results noted these times, but it is impossible to tell if she peed in the bath. I will weigh her before and after next time.
6. gave her 1 more tiny drop of baby simethicone five hours after first dose.
7. gave one more drop of olive oil


Current condition:
a. She is still looking bloated.
b. is still energetic and feisty, kicks and moves a lot when put in the bath, and does not seem uncomfortable.
c. her vagina area is a tiny bit red from the day of attempting to get her to pee with the warm wet soft tissue
d. she keeps wanting food and trying to suckle when giving her bath.


Next steps:
1. More bath/massage
2. We are going to try a tiny bit of apple/prune juice with a 2 parts water, 1 part apple, 1 part prune mixture as a laxative. We do not want to put too much pressure so will just start with a few drops.

Outside of this we are not sure what to do.

Questions:

How long does it take for bloating to go away?

What else can we do?

Any other input?

Thank you so much.

Here is a pic of her tummy if you find this helpful. I saw other threads with members asking for pics so I took these.

https://imgur.com/Tl2nGzb,Ph2iNjA

and another

https://imgur.com/Tl2nGzb,Ph2iNjA#1


K and J

[creativedreams]

Updating the latest steps taken since the above steps completed two hours ago.

We have continued and completed the following.

8. three more warm water baths in the past two hours, each about 15 min long.
9. gave two more drops baby simethacone (will stop here with this as that drug always upset my stomach)
10. three further attempts to stimulate
11. drop vegetable oil on bottom to keep moist
12. about 10-15 more drops apple/prune/water concoction as spelled out in prior post.

Baby is further dehydrated but still wiggling all over during the baths. No further stool or urine passed that we can tell.

Baby is now 14 hours since last feeding and still puffy. Tummy is not rock hard btw...still a little squishy, but definitely not completely taught.

Any input would be beyond appreciated.

[sassysquirrel]

Hopefully someone will be on soon to help you with more experience.

I do not think pinkies are supposed to fed the heavy whipping cream. The esbliac with probiotcs is all you need. And I think you have been adding too much whipping cream that is why they are bloated
hopefully someone will be on here soon to help you get these little ones straightened out.

The esbliac formula I have is ( I am thinking this is the old formula recipe before the new esbliac with probiotcs came out) if you are using esbliac with probotics I don't think you need the yogurt or the whipping cream.

2 parts water
1 part esbliac powder
1/4 part yogurt
1/4 part heavy whipping cream

Not an expert but I think the whipping cream is more than likely your problem.

Hoping someone soon can help you fixing these little babies.

[creativedreams]

Hi,

First, I have moved to this section as I keep reading bloat can be fatal. We have been diligent in researching the threads here and following instructions. We are now stuck. We need and will appreciate input and are not sure what else we can do.

Second, this board has been a godsend. Thank you all for posting so much great stuff. We have brought back these abandoned babies from deaths door because of it.

Info:
The babies are about 10-12 weeks and 29-30 grams.

We are following the 5 percent/bodyweight rule for food serving size and are feeding the babies esbilac / heavy cream after rehydrating them with pedialyte. We started with 4 parts water, 1 part esbilac, 1 part hwc, as they were on pedialyte only for the first day as we rehydrated. Once they turned from sullen gray and dried up, to healthy, pink and energetic we moved them on to the formula mixture every other time (rotating formula and fluids each time so they stay hydrated). That went great and the babies made huge progress in the first 48 hours.

This morning, once we were sure they were processing formula without issues, we moved them to 3 parts water, 1 part hwc, 1 part esbilac per guidelines we found. The smaller female seemed to bloat up and or constipate. She was like this for about 12 hours during which we gave her just a few drops of fluid to keep her mouth moist while we researched and followed the below steps. We have not fed her more formula since this morning, 12 hours ago.

1. 1 small drop Vegetable oil rubbed softly into her bottom area to soften her up.
*No results noted yet
2. warm bath up to elbows combined with soft massage on her tummy and sides, which she seemed to enjoy and it relaxed her (I studied massage in general for years so am careful and aware of the delicate nature).
*This resulted in a tiny dropping about .5mm in diamter and about as long as a normal grain of white rice. Super excited to see that. Bloating looked the same.
3. two drops baby simethicone to relieve possible gas.
*This resulted in perhaps 10 percent decrease in bloating up top or in general.
4. one small drop olive oil to help get things moving.
*No results noted.
5. repeated step 1 and 2 with the oil and bath four more times.
*No results noted these times, but it is impossible to tell if she peed in the bath. I will weigh her before and after next time.
6. gave her 1 more tiny drop of baby simethicone five hours after first dose.
7. gave one more drop of olive oil
Updating the latest steps taken since the above steps completed two hours ago.

We have continued and completed the following.

8. three more warm water baths in the past two hours, each about 15 min long.
9. gave two more drops baby simethacone (will stop here with this as that drug always upset my stomach)
10. three further attempts to stimulate
11. drop vegetable oil on bottom to keep moist
12. about 10-15 more drops apple/prune/water concoction as spelled out in prior post.

Baby is further dehydrated but still wiggling all over during the baths. No further stool or urine passed that we can tell.

Baby is now 14 hours since last feeding and still puffy. Tummy is not rock hard btw...still a little squishy, but definitely not completely taught.


Current condition:
a. She is still looking bloated.
b. is still energetic and feisty, kicks and moves a lot when put in the bath, and does not seem uncomfortable.
c. her vagina area is a tiny bit red from the day of attempting to get her to pee with the warm wet soft tissue
d. she keeps wanting food and trying to suckle when giving her bath.


Next steps:

Outside of the above we are not sure what to do, but try the laxitone or laculose products mentioned in the other threads.

Questions:

How long does it take for bloating to reside?

What else can we do?

How long can she go without feeding when in this state? (we stopped feeding her as soon as we saw she was plugged up and have given only limited liquids as to not overfill her)

Any other input?

Thank you so much.

Here is a pic of her tummy if you find this helpful. I saw other threads with members asking for pics so I took these.

https://imgur.com/Tl2nGzb,Ph2iNjA

and another

https://imgur.com/Tl2nGzb,Ph2iNjA#1



K and J

[pixiepoo]

If it were me, I would forgo the whipping cream. If they are greys, I would just stick to straight Esbilac and water. How much does she weigh? Can you post a pic? How old are they exactly?

If she is dehydrated that will further slow down her digestion. Are you orally hydrating Her to help with digestion ir subQIng her?

[sassysquirrel]

Pics are in the 1st post.

They have not anything eat or drink in a long time.

Can't feed a bloated baby - can you?

[creativedreams]

Thank you.

Here are a couple recent pics.

We did another 30 min of warm bath. No luck.

We give a little tiny bit of fluids, most recently about 10-15 drops of apple/prune/water as outlined above. We are trying to not exasperate the situation by filling her up to overflow levels.

Her little girl parts are getting a bit irritated from the minutes of light dabbing with soft warm wet tissue. We have stopped doing that and are now massaging around her parts and doing the dabbing at her bottom. No luck yet.

https://imgur.com/iUU8wye,c1flLWr

https://imgur.com/iUU8wye,c1flLWr#1

The other baby has had no issues with the mixture of whipping cream and esbilac. We have been 4 parts water and today 3 parts water, so it's pretty diluted.

Off to get the hairball stuff mentioned here in wild mammal babies the first 48 hours: http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/Other/TS...qZ/i-ZfHt4Nt/A

She wants more food still..and keeps making feed me face. We must not feed or hydrate if she's bloaty or constipated right?

Her belly is not super hard to touch..between squishy and hard we think...but we worry giving her more stuff will make it worse. However she's getting more dehydrated (the pinch test shows dehydration) and her energy is a bit less, but not terrible. She's still kicking around and moving, and quite strong.

[creativedreams]

<sup>Thank you.

Here are a couple recent pics.

We did another 30 min of warm bath. No luck.

We give a little tiny bit of fluids, most recently about 10-15 drops of apple/prune/water as outlined above. We are trying to not exasperate the situation by filling her up to overflow levels.

Her little girl parts are getting a bit irritated from the minutes of light dabbing with soft warm wet tissue. We have stopped doing that and are now massaging around her parts and doing the dabbing at her bottom. No luck yet.

https://imgur.com/iUU8wye,c1flLWr

https://imgur.com/iUU8wye,c1flLWr#1

The other baby has had no issues with the mixture of whipping cream and esbilac. We have been 4 parts water and today 3 parts water, so it's pretty diluted.

Off to get the hairball stuff mentioned here in wild mammal babies the first 48 hours: http://nmognoni.smugmug.com/Other/TS...qZ/i-ZfHt4Nt/A

She wants more food still..and keeps making feed me face. We must not feed or hydrate if she's bloaty or constipated right?

Her belly is not super hard to touch..between squishy and hard we think...but we worry giving her more stuff will make it worse. However she's getting more dehydrated (the pinch test shows dehydration) and her energy is a bit less, but not terrible. She's still kicking around and moving, and quite strong.</sup>

[sassysquirrel]

When I have had trouble with one not pooping.

I have taken my kitchen sprayer with warm water and spray their belly and privates. I wrap in a small piece of fleece and be very careful not to get the water on their face especially the mouth and nose. Always making sure baby is kept warm.

You can put neosporin or Vaseline on her privates. Some use a paint brush dipped in warm water on there babies to pee and poop. I have tried this also and it worked great.

[stepnstone]

I agree the "additions" in the formula caused this, don't even understand why you would dilute the formula but then add other things to it. The nutrition in the formula is needed much more then additional fat the additives put in.

That bloat is at a dangerous level for that baby and your right, you should not feed a bloated baby anything until it has resided.
When your doing the warm water soaks, are you massaging baby from the arm pits down both sides to try to get things moving?

I hope something happens in that department soon, I can't express it enough how serious this is for a pink...

[creativedreams]

First...SUCCESS!!!!

We went to get some other supplies and when we came back she had a little less tension on her belly, or so it seemed. I took the advice above and the long strokes from the armpits down to her hips broke the curse. Poop flowed..and flowed...and flowed. Very lightly pressing about half cm above the vaginal area and down toward the urethra caused the urine to flow as well, and oh did it ever. The long strokes down the sides..jeez..never seen an animal poop so much (except for the one time my dog stole and ate an entire jar of crunchy peanut butter).

Great post and thanks for that armpits down tip. Spot on! We were being maybe a tiny bit too gentle with the massage, worrying about it and being overly careful. It still requires being gentle but we were literally able to push her right out.

Back to rehydration, and will try the food sans heavy cream.

The mixture of formula and heavy whipping cream was suggested on multiple sites. I do not understand how fat and oil would contribute to constipation/bloat when oils are what are given to loosen them up. If anything I am wondering if her temperature was too low when she was fed. We bought new thermometers just to be certain.

Thanks again everyone. Will keep you updated on their progress. We have been working very hard to rescue these babies and they have improved ten times what they were when we found them laying in the dirt, alone, drying out in 105 degree texas heat. May we make it the rest of the way.

Best,


k and j

[stepnstone]

Great news!! So very glad to read it!!
What are you hydrating with?

Pinks digestive systems are immature and it is found that many just can not
properly digest the additional fats until they are older/ more mature.

Edit: If hydrating with pedi I would recommend going with the homemade hydration.
The homemade hydration is the same thing with the exception it does not contain the
unnecessary dyes and chemical flavorings Pedi does. These babies need things to be
as pure as possible.

Home made hydration fluid:
1 teaspoon salt
3 Tablespoons sugar
1 quart water.

[sassysquirrel]

When was the last time you gave the baby simethicone drops?

I would try those again. I would also cut out the whipping cream.

Has she pooped any? If you can get her to poop then I would offer her some of the hydration receipe not the pedylte it has sodium in it.

Hopefully she will start pooping soon for you.

Hopefully in a couple of hours more of the experts will be on and give
you definite instructions on what to do to get rid of the bloat. And give you directions on how to mix your formula. And when and how re-introduce her back to formula.

So sorry your little one is having so much trouble.

[stepnstone]

I would offer her some of the hydration receipe not the pedylte it has sodium in it.

It is the chemical dyes and flavoring in Pedi that is unnecessary. Sodium is an important electrolyte, the salt in the homemade solution is the electrolyte being provided.
Within the body, electrolytes are dissolved in body fluids. In terms of hydration, electrolytes are responsible for directing water (and nutrients) to the areas of the body where its needed most and maintaining optimal fluid balance inside the cells. Besides maintaining fluid balance, electrolytes help your muscles to contract and relax and assist in the transmission of nerve impulses

[creativedreams]

Thank you all. I am finding that just patting/caressing her bottom areas are not getting her to let go of her fluids or solids. I am finding the massage, with a little tiny bit of downward pressure (from armpits and ribs down toward anus/urethra) causes her to flow and push out solids. I am being very careful to only exhibit the least amount of pressure possible, but do not know if using this method to cause her to relieve herself (after the warm bath and with a tiny bit of veggie oil on my finger tips), is problematic. Should I be concerned about things going back up the wrong direction so to speak? She seems to really like it, and completely relaxes, but these little babies are so delicate I just want to be sure that the massage method is ok. I will take a video at the next feeding if that is helpful.

*being very very careful to not keep the slight pressure on her sides and abdomen continuously so that she can breath easily and freely.
**being very careful to not press upward during massage so that things do not go the wrong direction.

Any thoughts are appreciated.


a. I have been hydrating with pedialyte. I have been told that can't go for more than 24 hours due to the high salt content and now the dyes/unnatural flavors. I will go ahead and switch to the natural water/sugar/salt mixture.
b. she is pooping plenty, although with the drops, olive oil, and high volume of water she's a little runny and is pushing both solid and fluid poo.


Importantly, I cut out the fat whipping cream but even then she is refusing to go potty from tickling her bum and so the only method that is working is the massage downward from the armpits down, and the massage downward from just below sternum down to groin, and down her sides toward her groin.

She is hydrated again. Her energy is still a little lower than the other, who is proving to be a champ so far, but she is not lethargic. She makes vacuum face when anything gets near her mouth, so that's good.

I also found the comment that if the stop eating mid feeding that its time to poo or pee to be very valid. Listening for that is proving to be a big help. A little massage during that time and they both let go of what they were holding on to.

Plz advise and thank you all so much. We are really trying our best and have spared no expense in time, funds, or energy.


k and j

[CritterMom]

My favorite poopie/peepee tool is a wide (1/2-3/4") flat, soft bristled watercolor type brush. I cut the handle short on mine but that is just my preference. If you slightly dampen the bristles and use that to do the stroking, you are about as close to the sensation and pressure of a mama squirrel using her tongue that you can get without a mama squirrel!

[creativedreams]

thanks...will give that a shot now...

any input on my prior question regarding the massage method would be appreciated.

[Mommaluvy]

If her belly is squishy now i would hydrate
And proceed with the progression toward full strenght formula. Slowly.

Leave out the cream and all that . Just the diluted formula.

I do this by making the Esbilac per directions . Then for a 28 gram pinkie i pull up 3/4 of the syringe with water. Then finish filling the syringe with the formula. Do that for two feeds if digested.

Then at next feed pull up .50 or half the syringe with the formula and half warm water. Again 1-2 feeds.

Then follow the same only 3/4 full of formula and then 1/4 water. 2 feeds and then full strength. So baby should be on full strength by the 8th feeding.

Its was just easier to do it this way for me than to be maing the formula at different stengths.

Watch the belly , and the poops. And stick to the 5% rule for a while.

[Mommaluvy]

Idont have alot of experiance with massage but..

The liquid poo and firm poo - i can adress that. It could be your seeing some runny poo from all the sugar in the applejuice/ prune etc concoction.

I would seriously move toward the full strenght formula with no additives. I feel like the poo should firm up then.

[creativedreams]

yep...agreed. I have her on four parts water one part formula right now and she is taking it and processing with less effort, but we are still doing the baths and massage. She is going on her own some, which is encouraging as yesterday she wouldn't let go of any of it without 14 hours of effort on our parts

We will try your process mentioned. Thanks a lot.

k and j