14 day olds not pooping after introducing fox valley

[Oneillma]

Hi everyone. My name is Margaret
I have 2 baby grey squirrels. I have had them for a week. They are doing ok but i am still working the kinks out. I am completely new to this and the rehabers i have tried so far are full.

Background: squirrels are about 15 days old. 23 and 26 grams. When i got them they were 20 and 25g, respectively. I was hoping the fox valley would improve their weight gain substantially. I am trying to feed about .7 cc each feeding.

I just got o-ring syringes and miracle nipples yesterday which has made things much easier.

I also just got fox valley day 1 formula yesterday as well.

They were being fed puppy formula with heavy cream. I dropped the cream and the last 4 feedings have been 1/2 puppy formula and 1/2 fox valley

Last night their poop was getting darker yellow and a bit more solid-which i saw as a big improvement. But this morning-no poop! Not even any in the box from sleeping.

I suspect that they were not digesting the puppy formula well, so maybe they are more fully digesting the fox valley??

I was going to transition to 100% fox valley today, but now i am not so sure. Do they need something for the constipation ASAP, or should i wait a bit longer snd see if maybe they are just digesting better?

Any suggestions are more than welcome!
I am very nervous because i lost their sister 2 days ago. I think it was bloat and completely my fault.
-margaret

[HRT4SQRLS]

Hi Margaret. Welcome to TheSquirrelBoard

I'm at work so I won't be on long but this post will bump your thread to the top so others can sound in. If you are using FoxValley 32:40... that is the problem. The tiny squirrels, especially pinkies can't digest it and it will block them. I would immediately STOP the FV 32:40. I would try floating them (while securely holding them of course. ) to their armpits in a warm water bath and massage the tummy. Try to get that to move in their GI tract. When you take them out of the warm bath don't let them get chilled.

Others will be on to help. Good luck.

[Mel1959]

. Rarely is there a problem with Esbilac. The whipping cream addition usually results in loose bowels. Was it the POWDERED Esbilac with pro and prebiotics? That is what we recommend, not the liquid. Do not feed the Fox Valley 32/40. In addition to the warm soak, try offering some sugar water to help move stuff along.

[Spanky]

What types of puppy formula were they previously getting?

Not all puppy formulas are the same and only the Esbilac meets the nutritional needs of baby squirrels. And it has to be the powdered version since the liquid version has a different formulation. You can usually find Esbilac at Tractor Supply stores and some big-box pet stores.

If the Fox Valley you have is the 20/50 version, that does not have the same issues of not digesting as the 32/40 has... but we usually do not transition them to the 20/50 until they are 4 weeks or more; many wait for eyes open (at 5 weeks) before introducing the Fox Valley 20/50. We recommend the Esbilac until about 4 weeks of age.

Bloat is a serious problem with these little ones and a bloated baby should never be fed anything. A drop of Simethicone (Infant Gas-X) can help with these types of issues as well.

Here is what the Esbilac can looks like:

[island rehabber]

Good advice above. Fox Valley does not move through the babies' systems as quickly as Esbilac does, so a little less poop is actually normal when transitioning to FV. However, I would also add one feeding of hydration IN BETWEEN feedings of formula today -- you can make your own with the TSB recipe or use Pedialyte. This should get things moving as well. When I'm dealing with newborns to three-week olds I don't really stress if everybody doesn't poop after every feeding. Missing more than one, however, is not good.

[Oneillma]

Thank you everyone.

I got the one little boy to poop! The 2nd one had two little poop nuggets, so progress...

I was using the Pet/Ag puppy formula - same company, but not called Esbilac. I can get the Esbilac today.

Can I ask about the Fox Valley?? I really thought everyone was raving about their 32/40 for newborns. Is that not the case any more? I am confused on that one.

[Spanky]

I got the one little boy to poop! The 2nd one had two little poop nuggets, so progress...

Can I ask about the Fox Valley?? I really thought everyone was raving about their 32/40 for newborns. Is that not the case any more? I am confused on that one.

We have been seeing issues with the FV 32/40 since the Spring of 2016. And yes, everyone was very happy and using the 32/40 before the spring 2016 season; then things changed. One of the advantages of TSB is that we share notes and experiences and which helps to identify the patterns more quickly when multiple folks experience the same problems... in this case it was that the 32/40 would turn to sludge and sit in the little one's belly and not digest. Quite a few pinkies were lost....

I suspect some (but I do not think very many) well experienced rehabbers *may* still be using the 32/40 but I assure you that the Esbilac is the way to go with your little ones, especially as they are the first you've rehabbed. It's much easier caring for them if the formula is correct, the feeding amounts are known and the schedule is set. It is varying from this foundation that results in complexities!

[Spanky]

I was using the Pet/Ag puppy formula - same company, but not called Esbilac. I can get the Esbilac today.

Please switch them just as soon as you can, the Pet/Ag is, well, horrible for baby squirrels...

[island rehabber]

Thank you everyone.

I got the one little boy to poop! The 2nd one had two little poop nuggets, so progress...

I was using the Pet/Ag puppy formula - same company, but not called Esbilac. I can get the Esbilac today.

Can I ask about the Fox Valley?? I really thought everyone was raving about their 32/40 for newborns. Is that not the case any more? I am confused on that one.

If you were using PetLac by PetAg, is not recommended for squirrels, AT ALL. Good thing your little ones are ok.
We used to swear by FV 32/40 for newborns up until four weeks old. Several years ago we had a summer of horror and some of us lost more than a dozen pinkies from the 32/40 turning to cement in their little bellies. I swore off the stuff then and will NOT ever use it again. Esbilac, although it had problems years ago, has become a perfectly good newborn thru 4 weeks old formula for squirrels. Some add to it; the only thing I will add is Fox Valley's Ultra Boost which is a great product for accelerated weight gain in pinkies that are scrawny.

SO......PetLac, FV 32/40 NO NO!
Esbilac then FV 20/50 after eyes open, YES YES YES

Hope this helps!

[Oneillma]

Thank you thank you!

I will switch to Esbilac today - within 2 hours!

Question - should I just go full Esbilac forumula (1 part powder to 2 parts water)
or should I slowing transition from the other (pet/ag and or fV formulas)
or water the Esbilac down first and then slowly go up to full strength?

I just gave the one little boy .4 cc of pedialyte, so hopefully that will move things along. He did not like the bath!

[Mel1959]

I think I would just dilute the Esbilac since the PetAG is so terrible. Make sure it is the POWDERED Esbilac.

[island rehabber]

I think I would just dilute the Esbilac since the PetAG is so terrible. Make sure it is the POWDERED Esbilac.

I agree -- get him off the PetLac right away. (PetAG is the parent company that makes Esbilac, KMR and PetLac. It's PetLAC we want to avoid ) Two feedings of 3 to 1 water to Esbilac powder, then go to 2:1 which is full strength. Should do it, and should get his little self pooping normally.

[Oneillma]

update: They are doing better!

baby #1 "Oleander" finally pooped! Except for two small nuggets he hadn't gone since 11pm last night. He finally went at 7pm. Solid-ish but it was GREEN. I'm not sure what is up with that.
baby #2 "Kudzu" is pooping ever other feeding. This is less than before, but I think before (before the Fox Valley) they were actually teetering on the diarrhea side of the issue.

So, after everyone's advice (thank you!) I switched to Esbilac 1 part powder to 4 parts water. I will slowly get that to 1:2 by tonight or tomorrow morning.
I also did 2 small feedings of pedialyte and one feeding of just .3cc plain water.

We did the warm bath again too...2nd time was a lot more relaxed. It is amazing how they sense our anxiety and respond to it.

(I really don't know why I was using the wrong formula to begin with...so much info on the internet...and I saw one (old) post about how Esbilac was bad...and then many people raving about FV. I am a total newbie. I am also quite shocked how much a different formula has a HUGE impact on their well being. I mean, the base ingredients are the same in all of these correct? Cows milk proteins? I'm just amazed at how affected these little guys were by a change in brand.)

Anyway, I'm still worried about them. I really want them to start putting on weight. They have gotten bigger in the 8 days I have had them, but they aren't gaining a lot of weight. They are starting to look really skinny. So, I'm praying the Esbilac will start letting them get the calories they need.
-Margaret

[island rehabber]

Glad to hear this! Order some Fox Valley Ultra Boost from henryspets.com while you're at it. It is excellent in combination with the Esbilac for putting weight on babies. Never had anyone have a bad reaction to it and it smells like vanilla icing

[redwuff]

How are you determining how much to feed them? Welcome by the way!

[Oneillma]

Hi - I found this chart on http://www.squirrel-rehab.org/rehabinfo/weektwo.html

22 gr .69 cc
24 gr .75 cc
26 gr .81 cc
28 gr .88 cc
30 gr .94 cc
32 gr 1.00 cc
34 gr 1.06 cc
36 gr 1.13 cc
38 gr 1.19 cc
40 gr 1.25 cc
42 gr 1.31 cc
44 gr 1.38 cc
46 gr 1.44 cc
48 gr 1.50 cc
50 gr 1.56 cc
52 gr 1.63 cc
54 gr 1.69 cc
56 gr 1.75 cc
58 gr 1.81 cc
60 gr 1.88 cc

I was doing the 5% rule...but that seemed too little when they were only 20g
and then other sites said up to 1cc per feeding - but that made them way too full

Although now, based on the age, they SHOULD probably weigh more...they stomachs could probably handle more than their weight suggests.

I am also trying to feed them every 2 or 3 hours...but I skip a feeding at night, otherwise I can't function.

Do you have a different recommendation??


At 3am last night, i switched to full strength Esbilac - (1 part powder:2 parts water.) They ate then and at 7am.
They both pooped. It is firm. They are going up on the scale.
Oleander is 25g and Kudzu is 28g.

But, what should a 16 day old weigh?? [I'm basing their approx age on their characteristics. The most telling one being when the umbilical stump fell off (the little thread) which I am marking as day 10.]
They have gained 5g and 3g, respectively over 8 days. The bigger boy (Kudzu) who weighed 25g when I got him - he bounced around that weight for the first week, with no gains. That PetLac was terrible! And I was added a bit of heavy cream which must have given them the runs. Ugh. I just ordered the Fox Valley Ultraboost.

[island rehabber]

That chart seems extremely restrictive to me. Different babies at different weights eat...differently . There is no real 5% 'rule"; it's more of a 5-7% GUIDELINE. MINimum 5%, in other words. I often have robust babies who can take 8-9% with perfect poops and I let them eat that much every time. I currently have one (Prima) who sometimes slurps down 10% of her body weight.

Yes, the PetLac was messing your guys up, but they'll straighten up now and gain weight with the Ultra Boost as well.

[Mel1959]

The 5-7% rule would put Kudzus amount PER FEEDING to be 1.4-1.96ml and Oleanders to be 1.25-1.75ml. These amounts are more than the chart you showed but this is the recommended way to judge how much to feed. Weigh them every morning and feed 5-7% of that weight per feeding. Go slow increasing their amount. Loose stools are an indicator that they have been fed too much. Now that they are stabilizing with the new formula you should see a weight gain. I agree with IR the Ultraboost is wonderful and works very well.

You're doing great!

[Spanky]

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