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Thread: New Squirrel Mama that could use all the help I can get!!!

  1. #21
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    Default Re: New Squirrel Mama that could use all the help I can get!!!

    Hello Babysquirrelmama:

    I have returned from my trip and reviewed your Thread about Maxwell and you most recent concern about scant pooping and apparent "bloat" after eating. How is the poop situation this morning? It sounds like you have noticed some evidence of passing small, hard, black poops. This is obviously not the same as no poops at all but "formula poops" are not hard and black; they are soft and somewhat golden in color! You mentioned that Max's eyes opened a couple of days ago and that would indicate his age to be be around 5 weeks which also coincides with other developmental milestones noticeable in your photos of Max. Apparently you have obtained a digital scale that can read in Grams and you found Max's weigh on "eye open day" to be 66 Grams. Are you certain that the scales are calibrated and zero'd before Max is placed on them. Also, are you weighing Max every morning before his first meal of the day and calibrating the amount of EACH formula feeding based upon that weight using the 5%-7% "rule."
    The reason I am asking these questions and making comments about poop characteristics with a formula fed baby Squirrel is that 66 Grams is a bit underweight for a 5-plus week old Squirrel and I would expect his weight to be over 100 Grams by now! My suggestion would be to stop the yoghurt and it sounds as if you have already stopped the antibiotics (please verify) and transition now to mixing the Fox Valley 20/50
    as it should be made, and that is 2 parts fresh (bottled) water and one part FV 20/50 powder! Yes, I feel that Max could use fluids and it will be ok to give some extra flavored if necessary water between feeding but Max needs his nutritional support and that comes from the formula. He will also get plenty of fluids with the proper mixture of formula but again, it is ok to give a bit of extra fluids between feeding but it really should not be necessary.

    On those notes, and after verifying the accuracy of your scales; I would like to suggest in addition to mixing the formula in the recommended proportions, that you feed Max as if he was 3-4 weeks of age as his weight is consistent with that age range. I believe Max needs to catch up and his poops will also normalize as he gets more formula mixed in proper ratio of 2 parts water to one part powdered formula. Use a 1cc syringe! I would also recommend that you hold Max upright when you feed him and tap the syringe a few times before beginning feedings to help get any trapped air separated from the formula and then depress the plunger slightly to remove the air from the syringe. I would also suggest that you feed Max every 4 hours. Go slow and YOU must limit the plunger if Max is a very avid "sucker" as this will help avoid aspiration and help avoid entraining air into the formula. We do not want a belly full of air, just formula! Give the formula drop by drop at first and if Max is definitively swallowing and not choking you can go on to giving several drops at once but while you. Max's abdomen should appear full after feeding but not distended (pushed out and hard) and it should be down to "normal" before the next feeding. I would also recommend that you concentrate on the formula for the next week and see how Max is doing with weight and poops before stating solid foods. When it is time to start the solid foods, start with quality Blocks only until he is avidly eating these. Formula should be continued until the Squirrel weans himself but Maxwell is in no way to the point of weaning and in fact, I believe he needs more nutritional support by the way of formula and hold off on solid foods for now!

    As CritterMom mentioned in one of her posts, the way to mix and store the powdered formula is critical!

    Here are my suggestions for storing and mixing formula;

    The powdered formula MUST be kept in the freezer and pulled out only to get some powder with which to mix a batch of formula. The formula powder must be mixed with hot water. I use water at 170 degrees F but just ensure that it is hot but not near boiling! You can of course use hot tap water (usually around 120-135 degrees F but I use bottled water (probably this is more me than necessity). The formula can be mixed in a glass container with a cap and only the amount of formula needed for the next 24 should be mixed as ALL mixed formula MUST be disposed of by 24 hours and ALL mixed formula except while using it to feed your Squirrel should be kept in the refrigerator.

    When initially mixing formula, you can shake the bottle and or mix vigorously with a spoon but avoid mechanical mixing as this is mentioned by the manufacturer and it is more likely to result in entrained air which should be avoided! The formula, after its initial mixing will appear fully dissolved and this is where many have gone wrong! Do NOT do a "quick-mix" and give it to the Max! The critical reason is that small particles of the powder still remain that are NOT in solution. These are very difficult for the babies to fully digest and the can pass into the intestine without any significant digestion begun and draw water into the intestine and diarrhea ensues! This can result in diarrhea and if there are very significant amounts of the unmixed formula powder particles, constipation or even obstruction can result!

    After mixing the formula, keep it in the refrigerator at least 4 hours and preferable 6-8 hours before using it for the first time (you can mix the night before and use it starting with the first morning feeding! The formula should be gently but definitively mixed prior to each feeding.

    Please keep on with the updates on little Maxwell!

    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

  2. Serious fuzzy thank you's to SamtheSquirrel2018 from:

    Babysquirrelmama (10-31-2024)

  3. #22
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    Smile Re: New Squirrel Mama that could use all the help I can get!!!

    Thank you so much for all the valuable info!!

    So, come to find out, the scale was NOT calibrated properly and he, in fact, weighs 71g before his feeding this morning. Still not ideal, I suppose, but better than 66g.

    Also, I believe i may have made a bit of a mistake last night, bc i ordered a nipple for the syringe and while my husband was feeding last night, he allowed him to suck in a little too much at once bc he didnt restrict the flow (I did warn him ��). So, he woke up this morning with his belly still a little fuller than it should've been, I'm assuming from taking in too much air with his gulp last night. Dont worry, no more nipple and I may just have to ground my husband from feedings for a bit lol

    So I started with a warm bath and got quite a few gas bubbles out and he peed before eating this morning, which helped a little with the bloat before feeding. He ate approx. 4.5cc, which i believe is on track with his weight. He also pooped during feeding, so im super stoked about that! BUT his belly IS quite distended after feeding.

    I am using a 1cc syringe, feeding him upright, and I always make sure to get out any air bubbles prior to feeding as well. Choking doesn't seem to be an issue at all now. It was in the first day, only bc I didnt have a 1cc syringe yet so had to make do with a 10cc and he did aspirate a few times...which is why I initially started the antibiotics due to clicking. No issues after getting the 1cc syringe though.

    Yes, I did stop the antibiotics and he pooped a few little drops here and there yesterday afternoon and last night as well, and they are now brown and not really soft, but not near as hard as before. So, I'm quite convinced at this point that it was probably the antibiotics/yogurt causing the poop delay.
    I did increase the FV 20/50 ratio a little bit...about 1 to 2.75ish. Giving .15 gas-x once a day the last few days as well, which seems to help. Hoping, once the antibiotics are completely out of his system, his stools will become even more regular.

    I also appreciate the advice on mixing the formula, didnt realize the water should be THAT hot but it makes complete sense. So that very well could be a contributing factor as well. And I've been using bottled water from the start so we're good there.

    Should i move straight to full strength or slowly transition it? Also, should I be doing night feedings as well? At this point, he seems to be doing great and moving in the right direction.

    Ty again for everyone's input, I really appreciate you all more than you know! ��
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  4. #23
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    Default Re: New Squirrel Mama that could use all the help I can get!!!

    Hold him under the armpits and let his lower body dangle unsupported. After feeding, his tummy should look like a water balloon filled about 1/3 full. Teardrop shaped. Then leave him to digest it someplace he is nice and warm. At that point if you dangle him it is noticeable that he has digested (or not).

  5. #24
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    Default Re: New Squirrel Mama that could use all the help I can get!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Babysquirrelmama View Post
    Thank you so much for all the valuable info!!

    So, come to find out, the scale was NOT calibrated properly and he, in fact, weighs 71g before his feeding this morning. Still not ideal, I suppose, but better than 66g.

    Also, I believe i may have made a bit of a mistake last night, bc i ordered a nipple for the syringe and while my husband was feeding last night, he allowed him to suck in a little too much at once bc he didnt restrict the flow (I did warn him ��). So, he woke up this morning with his belly still a little fuller than it should've been, I'm assuming from taking in too much air with his gulp last night. Dont worry, no more nipple and I may just have to ground my husband from feedings for a bit lol

    So I started with a warm bath and got quite a few gas bubbles out and he peed before eating this morning, which helped a little with the bloat before feeding. He ate approx. 4.5cc, which i believe is on track with his weight. He also pooped during feeding, so im super stoked about that! BUT his belly IS quite distended after feeding.

    I am using a 1cc syringe, feeding him upright, and I always make sure to get out any air bubbles prior to feeding as well. Choking doesn't seem to be an issue at all now. It was in the first day, only bc I didnt have a 1cc syringe yet so had to make do with a 10cc and he did aspirate a few times...which is why I initially started the antibiotics due to clicking. No issues after getting the 1cc syringe though.

    Yes, I did stop the antibiotics and he pooped a few little drops here and there yesterday afternoon and last night as well, and they are now brown and not really soft, but not near as hard as before. So, I'm quite convinced at this point that it was probably the antibiotics/yogurt causing the poop delay.
    I did increase the FV 20/50 ratio a little bit...about 1 to 2.75ish. Giving .15 gas-x once a day the last few days as well, which seems to help. Hoping, once the antibiotics are completely out of his system, his stools will become even more regular.

    I also appreciate the advice on mixing the formula, didnt realize the water should be THAT hot but it makes complete sense. So that very well could be a contributing factor as well. And I've been using bottled water from the start so we're good there.

    Should i move straight to full strength or slowly transition it? Also, should I be doing night feedings as well? At this point, he seems to be doing great and moving in the right direction.

    Ty again for everyone's input, I really appreciate you all more than you know! ��
    Hi Babysquirrelmama:
    Those poops are starting to look pretty good!

    You are very close to optimal with your Formula mixing of 1 part powder to 2.75 parts water but my opinion would be to still have a short transition from this to 1:2 utilizing a full day's worth of feedings to finally reach the 1 part powder to 2 pars water. Keep in mind that you should NOT add extra powder to the already prepared formula as you will be faced with the same issue of incomplete mixing! What I would suggest is that you do just the opposite and mix up the batch of formula for tomorrow as if it was all going to be given as 1 part powder to 2 parts water and then add extra WATER (not powder) for the first feeding to give a mixture between your 1:2.75 and add a little less water before each subsequent feeding over the day tomorrow until the final feeding is full strength (no extra water added)!

    In regard to your question about night feeding; my opinion would be to feed every 4 hours for at least 4 more days and be certain of a consistent trend toward significant weight gain. A night feeding would NOT be necessary but I would also like ask you to consider the night to be only 6 hours long! First thing each morning, weigh Maxwell and use that weight to calculate your ideal amount of formula to feed for EACH feeding that particular day!

    For accuracy, please don't simply place Max on the scale and hope that the reading is correct as any movement will adversely affect the obtaining of an accurate weight! Simply get a small box or small container that you can put Max in for just the few seconds necessary to weigh him. These modern digital scales have some amazing capabilities and you can first put the container on the scale and then push the "zero" button and this will automatically subtract the weight of the container and the scale will read "zero" and you just add Max to the container and the scale will indicate Max's weight directly without any need to subtract the actual weight of the container!

    By the weigh (spelling intended!), this used to be called the "Tare" button but based upon one of CritterMom's posts on another thread, I became aware of the fact that it is only elderly people such as myself who still call this the "Tare" button while the rest of the world calls it the "Zero" button! I now do this too but I don't feel any younger! What went wrong, CritterMom?

    Well, so much for a small digression!

    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

  6. 2 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to SamtheSquirrel2018:

    Babysquirrelmama (10-31-2024), island rehabber (11-01-2024)

  7. #25
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    Default Re: New Squirrel Mama that could use all the help I can get!!!


    By the weigh (spelling intended!), this used to be called the "Tare" button but based upon one of CritterMom's posts on another thread, I became aware of the fact that it is only elderly people such as myself who still call this the "Tare" button while the rest of the world calls it the "Zero" button! I now do this too but I don't feel any younger! What went wrong, CritterMom?
    Silly. You have to sit in a small box on the scale when you push the zero button for it to work. You think eternal youth is easy?

  8. #26
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    Talking Re: New Squirrel Mama that could use all the help I can get!!!

    Again, I cannot thank you all enough...truly. Max is really doing great Pooped again right after feeding tonight, so at this point, I feel like he's definitely headed in the right direction! Pretty sure the antibiotics were holding up the poop train lol

    He weighed 79 grams after his feeding tonight! And yes, I actually do put him in a foam bowl for weighing, being sure to tare it out with the bowl beforehand.

    Btw, "tare" is totally still a thing in my book as well lol

    I also made today's formula 1 formula to 2.5 water...so I will go ahead and do full strength tomorrow and add just a little water as I go as you suggested, having him at full strength by midday tomorrow.

    So, I guess my next question would be...once he's old or big enough...im thinking what, 6-8weeks? What are the best blocks to feed him? Best fruits and veggies? I'm here for all the good info

  9. #27
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    Default Re: New Squirrel Mama that could use all the help I can get!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Babysquirrelmama View Post
    Again, I cannot thank you all enough...truly. Max is really doing great Pooped again right after feeding tonight, so at this point, I feel like he's definitely headed in the right direction! Pretty sure the antibiotics were holding up the poop train lol

    He weighed 79 grams after his feeding tonight! And yes, I actually do put him in a foam bowl for weighing, being sure to tare it out with the bowl beforehand.

    Btw, "tare" is totally still a thing in my book as well lol

    I also made today's formula 1 formula to 2.5 water...so I will go ahead and do full strength tomorrow and add just a little water as I go as you suggested, having him at full strength by midday tomorrow.

    So, I guess my next question would be...once he's old or big enough...im thinking what, 6-8weeks? What are the best blocks to feed him? Best fruits and veggies? I'm here for all the good info
    Hi Babysquirrelmama:
    Thanks for the update! It sounds as if Max is doing significantly better (and you too)! Also, it sounds as if you have a good plan! As far as appropriate age to begin introduction of solid food; for most babies this should be shortly after the Squirrels eyes have opened. In the specific case of Max, however; my recommendation would be to give him another full week of optimal nutrition with only the formula before considering the introduction of solid food. Max is a bit behind in his growth and since he is taking the formula readily and formula is a complete and well balanced nutritional source, this should optimize his "catching up" nutritionally! Please understand that I do not believe that his being "a bit behind" is critical but it is a concern and it can be easily corrected! The restriction of using formula only for the next full 7 day period will not likely by itself result in Max's reaching ideal body weight body weight but it will help greatly and essentially give him more of a sound nutritional base. It's not that Blocks or other solid foods are necessarily inferior to formula; INMHO, it's worth concentrating on the boost in nutritional status a conscientiously applied feeding protocol with formula will provide! You will have plenty of time to add the solid foods!

    When you do introduce solid foods; this should be done in stages and gradually and the first solid foods offered should be restricted to quality rodent Blocks only! Baby Squirrels should be avidly eating Blocks before any other solid foods are offered; especially before any treats are offered (also of note, treats include nuts and fruits!). The choices for quality Blocks include Henry's Healthy Blocks (HHBs are a concentrated nutritional source and for a squirrel Max's size, should be limited to 2 HHBs per day), Teklad 2018 and Mazuri Rat and Mouse Diet. Except for HHBs, the other quality Rodent Blocks can be free-fed which means that Max can eat as much of those as he wants. When Blocks are first introduced, most Squirrels will initially ignore them, than play with them, shred them, taste them and last of all, usually days after first being exposed to then; they will begin to eat the blocks! Offer no other foods beside the regular formula until Max has fully accepted the Blocks and is avidly eating them!

    HHBs are a great nutritional source and fully complete and balanced but they should not be free-fed and they are relatively expensive. Most Squirrels seem to prefer the Picky Blocks variety. HHBs can be ordered from Henry's Pets; https://www.henryspets.com

    Teklad 2018 (my preferred block for healthy Squirrels for a number reasons) are available in bulk at feed stores but I have obtained mine for years from a seller on eBay named EcoSandy. She buys in bulk so you don't need to and resells just about any size package you might want (starting with a 2lb bag). Here is a link to her eBay page; https://www.ebay.com/itm/33559954224...r=545112447621

    Mazuri Rat and Mouse Diet is available at local pet stores including PetSmart and from Chewy for mail orders.

    Once Max is readily consuming Blocks, you can gradually add some other healthy foods according to Henry's Pets Food Pyramid. The healthiest foods (BLOCKS) are at the wide base of the pyramid and the treats (NUTS and fruits!) are at the tip of the pyramid and these items at the tip should be offered rarely if at all to captive Squirrels! Other than formula, Quality Blocks should comprise 80% of a captive Squirrel's diet. If the Squirrel is a pet, this recommendation is for life; if the Squirrel is destined for release, this restriction is modified once the Squirrel is placed in the Release Cage because they will be making the transition to a "wild diet" and that should be facilitated at that time. https://henryspets.com/healthy-diet-for-pet-squirrels/

    A diligent search for stashes must be performed at least at the end of each day and the stashes removed! This is especially pertinent when HHBs are used as these have no preservatives and will spoil very rapidly!

    Just out of curiosity, what are your intentions for Max; is he to have a Soft-Release or is he going to stay with you?

    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

  10. Serious fuzzy thank you's to SamtheSquirrel2018 from:

    island rehabber (11-01-2024)

  11. #28
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    Default Re: New Squirrel Mama that could use all the help I can get!!!

    Yet again, all great info, thank you! He weighed in at 74g before feeding this morning, so hes definitely headed in the right direction!

    Also, in terms of weight...I do live in central FL, where the squirrels just don't get as big as northern states. I grew up in MO, and chuckled when I saw the size of squirrels and even deer here. Does that make a difference, in your opinion, in terms of him being behind in weight?

    As far as future plans...to be completely honest with you, I haven't quite decided yet. At the end of the day, I want what's best for Max. Im fearful of releasing him in my yard (which is where he was born), simply bc I have dogs and cats and I would be absolutely heartbroken if they brought him to me as a "gift" in the future. But at the same time, I also know that he could possibly escape from captivity at any given moment, which would ultimately put him in the same predicament.

    That being said, I would absolutely love to keep him! My uncle had a pet squirrel growing up and he was just the coolest! I just dont want to put him in danger by doing so. So, unless you could help give me some advice on a full proof plan in terms of housing, etc...I may have no choice but to eventually set him free, but would love to keep him for life, if possible.

    I've also contemplated releasing him at my father-in-laws. Only bc he already has quite the squirrel tribe there that we feed peanuts to quite often...with no other immediate predators in the vicinity. So, as much as I want to keep him, something tells me that this option may be his best bet at a full life.

    Anyone else have experience with having squirrels, dogs, and cats in the same household? Is it even possible without fearing a dreadful outcome?

  12. #29
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    Default Re: New Squirrel Mama that could use all the help I can get!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Babysquirrelmama View Post
    Yet again, all great info, thank you! He weighed in at 74g before feeding this morning, so hes definitely headed in the right direction!

    Also, in terms of weight...I do live in central FL, where the squirrels just don't get as big as northern states. I grew up in MO, and chuckled when I saw the size of squirrels and even deer here. Does that make a difference, in your opinion, in terms of him being behind in weight?
    Hi Babysquirrelmama:
    I know that Squirrel tend to be smaller in Florida and for my own information, I'd like to encourage some our Florida Rehabbers to give their opinions about Max. And, of course, Max may simply be on the "small side" of a wide range of weights that could still be considered healthy and if so, maybe his nutritional status would also be optimal! I just have a range in mind for weights at certain age ranges which covers reasonable expectations for Grays (on the smaller side) and Foxers (on the larger side). I'm not a Veterinarian but I try to think like I think a clinician might think (actually, I simply try to think, period; which can be a struggle at times!) and that is to utilize as many forms of evidence as possible (including my own experiential database) as a basis for my Squirrel related opinions, decisions, treatments and interventions (I do this sort of reasoning on The Board and in my own practice as a "below the radar" Rehabber)! I'll just mention what I based my statement upon and justification for my suggestions but the bottom line may be that you are right on and that Max's weight is consistent with other Florida Squirrels his age!

    First of all, I compared Max's weight with the lowest number on my "mental" Squirrel age versus expected weight "chart." That suggested to me that Max may be a bit "behind!" I also considered the time spent early on appropriately rehydrating Max along with the relatively dilute formula that he was transitioning from as well as the persistence of what could be considered "wild baby poops" and all this simply came together in my pecan sized brain as Max possibly benefitting from some extra time focused on nutritional support! This could not in any way result in harm and I do feel that while it may possibly be overreactive rather than interventional or definitively therapeutic; it would still be worth doing! This is how I have always conducted my Squirreling endeavors! My recommendations, especially in light of the fact that we now have "formula poops" which indicates that Max is getting adequate formula; were made simply to get Max's nutritional status optimized if possible and to focus on accomplishing this by using formula for a week or so as this is an ideal and complete nutritional source! I would still encourage this and again, it can't be harmful!

    Please give Max a gentle (not enough to squeeze out one of those now normal poops!) Squirrel-hug from me!
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

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