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Thread: Poor eyesight

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    Default Poor eyesight

    We have a gray and a fox, around 7 weeks. Both are healthy and growing strong. The gray (Earl) was brought into a house by a dog. No visible puncture wounds nor other lacerations, but we do have concern that there could have been a closed head injury from either a fall or being shaken by the dog. Here's our concern...

    We are not sure Earl sees well. We have given them playtime in the outdoor cage which is 4' by 8' by 6'. It has a 2.5' shelf on one end which has their nest box, food supply, and sticks, rocks, etc. we have a ledge around the cage they can climb around.

    The other day, Earl walks to the edge of the shelf, reaches out his hand and feels for the ledge, then backs up. After a few seconds, walks straight off the ledge and falls to the ground. He was close to the ledge, but just missed it. We've noticed too that if we bring our finger toward the red squirrel (Sonny), he will follow it. Wave it in circles, his head moves in circles with it. Earl? He either doesn't notice it or simply is not interested. He doesn't seem to track it. When changing out syringes while feeding, he seems to search for the syringe, but doesn't seem to watch us as we bring the next one to him. Sonny jumps to us from the top of the cage, or up on the cage from the ground. Earl has shown no signs of wanting to jump. Makes us curious about how well he can actually see.

    Is there anything else we can do to evaluate his eyesight? I'm assuming he would be non-releasable if he is unable to see well.

    Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Poor eyesigh

    Quote Originally Posted by AverageJoe View Post
    We have a gray and a fox, around 7 weeks. Both are healthy and growing strong. The gray (Earl) was brought into a house by a dog. No visible puncture wounds nor other lacerations, but we do have concern that there could have been a closed head injury from either a fall or being shaken by the dog. Here's our concern...

    We are not sure Earl sees well. We have given them playtime in the outdoor cage which is 4' by 8' by 6'. It has a 2.5' shelf on one end which has their nest box, food supply, and sticks, rocks, etc. we have a ledge around the cage they can climb around.

    The other day, Earl walks to the edge of the shelf, reaches out his hand and feels for the ledge, then backs up. After a few seconds, walks straight off the ledge and falls to the ground. He was close to the ledge, but just missed it. We've noticed too that if we bring our finger toward the red squirrel (Sonny), he will follow it. Wave it in circles, his head moves in circles with it. Earl? He either doesn't notice it or simply is not interested. He doesn't seem to track it. When changing out syringes while feeding, he seems to search for the syringe, but doesn't seem to watch us as we bring the next one to him. Sonny jumps to us from the top of the cage, or up on the cage from the ground. Earl has shown no signs of wanting to jump. Makes us curious about how well he can actually see.

    Is there anything else we can do to evaluate his eyesight? I'm assuming he would be non-releasable if he is unable to see well.

    Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
    Hello AverageJoe:

    Welcome to The Squirrel Board! I am so very sorry that you have not yet received a response to your post! Starting at the end of your post; for blindness and most other significant problems with vision that involve both eyes; the Squirrel there should NOT be any attempt at release! It would be a death sentence! Are you willing to provide a Forever Home?

    Ideally, questions or concerns about vision should be addressed by a specialist; this being a Veterinary Ophthalmologist! Most however do not see Wildlife as patients and these specialists are not found everywhere and are usually in larger metropolitan areas. This would be my first choice but this can rarely be accomplished.

    It is very difficult to assess actual visual acuity (the ability to see more than light) in Squirrels and other animals for that matter! Walking off of a shelf in the cage and falling, certainly suggests a problem with vision but this may also be a coordination problem as he reached his paw for the edge and somehow he knew the edge was there. Could he have seen it and then lacked the coordination to avoid the edge or lacked the recognition of potential danger from being at the edge (these is a rhetorical question as they can't be answered but this does present major concerns)? Do Earl's eye appear normal; no cloudiness, no irregular pupils (the black round region in the center of the clear part of the eye called the cornea), no abnormal eye movements or involuntary eye movements such as rapid back and forth movements (called nystagmus). One thing you can do to assess light perception would be to shine a natural light from a flashlight (obviously NO laser light) into Earl's eye, one at a time and check for a responses which may include squinting, drawing away from the light, eye watering, and constriction of the pupil. A response would at least help establish Earl's ability to sense light but does not really evaluate how well Earl actually sees!

    Please keep on with updates on Earl and again, I apologize for you not receiving a timely response to your original post!

    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

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    Default Re: Poor eyesight

    Just an update...
    Earl is improving. He gets around the cage very well now. Don't know for sure if his sight has improved or if he has become familiar with the layout of the cage. We have been concerned about his lack of jumping, but in the last couple of days he has begun to jump up on my shoulder and back to the shelf, and he seems to really enjoy it as he does it over and over and over. Lol. These jumps are not big jumps (compared to previous rehabs, but progress nonetheless), but more than anything he has shown in the past.

    We're really not convinced that his acuity has fully returned however. He does seem to track our hand now, but we believe he has trouble seeing out of his left eye. Whenever we feed him from our hand, say a piece of nut, as he reaches for it he occasionally knocks it from our grip and it drops at his feet. He usually does not realize it was dropped and searches and sniffs around my hand. We have to draw his attention to where it dropped.

    When we bring the syringe to him, he normally waves his hand trying to grab the syringe before it gets close enough to him. The other 3 I've raised never did this, bur would grab the syringe once it got close enough. I wonder if it's because he's so excited to get the syringe, or if his depth perception is off?

    Overall, Earl is doing well. He seems content. He gets around the cage without difficulty. But we can't help but wonder if his sight is as good as it should be. He has no cloudiness in his eyes. They don't quiver, it's been very difficult to evaluate pupil changes as the eyes are essentially black to begin with and they are hard to see. Neither Earl nor Sonny seem to squint when we shine the light at them, and there's nothing wrong with Sonny.

    But speaking of Sonny...he's a fox squirrel. We have no fox in our immediate area. He could be released in the next month if things go as planned. We would release him back in the area he was found. We are concerned about splitting them up. Especially if Earl has vision problems and in any way at all relies on Sonny for security...but I don't think he does. I feel it would be unfair to Sonny to release him with Earl (if it is determined if Earl could be released, and right now my vote is 'no') since there are no fox around. But would it be difficult for Earl to lose his friend? Who knows? Maybe squirrels don't have the same bonds as we do and each would do fine if they are separated.

    What are thoughts on releasing a fox squirrel in an area with only greys?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Poor eyesight

    Quote Originally Posted by AverageJoe View Post
    Just an update...
    Earl is improving. He gets around the cage very well now. Don't know for sure if his sight has improved or if he has become familiar with the layout of the cage. We have been concerned about his lack of jumping, but in the last couple of days he has begun to jump up on my shoulder and back to the shelf, and he seems to really enjoy it as he does it over and over and over. Lol. These jumps are not big jumps (compared to previous rehabs, but progress nonetheless), but more than anything he has shown in the past.

    We're really not convinced that his acuity has fully returned however. He does seem to track our hand now, but we believe he has trouble seeing out of his left eye. Whenever we feed him from our hand, say a piece of nut, as he reaches for it he occasionally knocks it from our grip and it drops at his feet. He usually does not realize it was dropped and searches and sniffs around my hand. We have to draw his attention to where it dropped.

    When we bring the syringe to him, he normally waves his hand trying to grab the syringe before it gets close enough to him. The other 3 I've raised never did this, bur would grab the syringe once it got close enough. I wonder if it's because he's so excited to get the syringe, or if his depth perception is off?

    Overall, Earl is doing well. He seems content. He gets around the cage without difficulty. But we can't help but wonder if his sight is as good as it should be. He has no cloudiness in his eyes. They don't quiver, it's been very difficult to evaluate pupil changes as the eyes are essentially black to begin with and they are hard to see. Neither Earl nor Sonny seem to squint when we shine the light at them, and there's nothing wrong with Sonny.

    But speaking of Sonny...he's a fox squirrel. We have no fox in our immediate area. He could be released in the next month if things go as planned. We would release him back in the area he was found. We are concerned about splitting them up. Especially if Earl has vision problems and in any way at all relies on Sonny for security...but I don't think he does. I feel it would be unfair to Sonny to release him with Earl (if it is determined if Earl could be released, and right now my vote is 'no') since there are no fox around. But would it be difficult for Earl to lose his friend? Who knows? Maybe squirrels don't have the same bonds as we do and each would do fine if they are separated.

    What are thoughts on releasing a fox squirrel in an area with only greys?
    Hi AJ and thanks for the update on Earl and Sonny! I'm glad that Earl appears to be doing much better! As to you plans for "release" of Sonny; do you have any experience with what is involved in "releasing" a a young Squirrel that has been raised in captivity?

    **Also, I am going to ask other here on TSB to comment on your concerns about releasing a Fox Squirrel where only Grays are living. Foxes and Grays are both tree Squirrels but they prefer somewhat different tree habitats. Grays often favor dense overhead coverage and Fox Squirrels seem to prefer being on the edges of this type habitat or where there are individual small stands of trees and while there is certainly some overlap in where these two Squirrels live, the usually don't live in the same local regions and they keep these species separate. That being said, they can interbreed! It may be that while you are in an area that Grays favor; there may be an adjacent area that is favored by Fox Squirrels. I cannot comment directly on your question of whether or not a lone Fox Squirrel would thrive where only Grays live but I would hazard a guess based upon the facts you have mentioned, that this would be less than ideal for several reasons for the lone Foxer but probably an option if no others exist. I would like to encourage opinions and comments from other, please!

    Going back to a release in general, ALL Squirrels raised in captivity MUST have what is called a Soft-Release and must NEVER simply be let go! The Soft-Release program is "tried and true" and constitutes an essential plan to ensure as best as is possible, a successful release for Sonny! This process begins for you with planning and the construction of a special cage called, not surprisingly; a release cage! The Soft-Release begins for the "release-candidate Squirrel" when he is placed in Release Cage (RC) that is located outdoors with some protections from sun and rain (etc), a nest box, and food. The Squirrel will remain in the RC for at least 2 weeks and often for more time than that. A singleton should have significantly more time in the RC before opening the portal than Squirrel raised together and placed in the RC together! The primary purpose of the Soft-Release process is let the Squirrel become acclimated to being outside and to facilitate your Squirrel's natural instincts becoming activated while still being relatively safe, protected, and in a semi-controlled environment. The Soft-Release process will let Sonny, in a very real sense, "wild up" before he ever ventures forth from the RC!

    Please do NOT simply let Sonny loose (this is termed a Hard Release) as this will result in his extreme fear and and without the activation of his natural instincts; he will be unable to recognize what is safe and what is danger and will not be able protect himself or avoid predators and basically will NOT be able to function as a wild Squirrel. A Squirrel that has been hard release will in short order experience extreme fear as he unwittingly awaits an agonizing death by one of the multitude of potential predators waiting to take advantage of a vulnerable Squirrel! I am NOT trying to be dramatic, this is the sad truth! Also, Squirrels are not ready for consideration for Soft-Release until they have fully weaned themselves and have reached 16 weeks, thereabout AND again; they MUST go through the Soft Release Process!

    Here is a link to a thread on The Squirrel Board devoted to comments and suggestion pertaining to a Soft Release: https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...hlight=release

    Please keep Sonny with you while you learn about the Soft Release Process, build a RC and plan on the Soft-Release sometime in the future! We are approaching Winter and you being in Arkansas where Winters can at times be inhospitable; IMHO, overwintering in your home would be something to seriously consider and the plan the Soft-Release in Spring so Sonny will have 3 seasons to further acclimate to the wild and hone his instincts, gather food. locate water sources and much more before being faced with a possibly harsh Winter!

    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

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    Default Re: Poor eyesight

    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheSquirrel2018 View Post
    Hi AJ and thanks for the update on Earl and Sonny! I'm glad that Earl appears to be doing much better! As to you plans for "release" of Sonny; do you have any experience with what is involved in "releasing" a a young Squirrel that has been raised in captivity?

    **Also, I am going to ask other here on TSB to comment on your concerns about releasing a Fox Squirrel where only Grays are living. Foxes and Grays are both tree Squirrels but they prefer somewhat different tree habitats. Grays often favor dense overhead coverage and Fox Squirrels seem to prefer being on the edges of this type habitat or where there are individual small stands of trees and while there is certainly some overlap in where these two Squirrels live, the usually don't live in the same local regions and they keep these species separate. That being said, they can interbreed! It may be that while you are in an area that Grays favor; there may be an adjacent area that is favored by Fox Squirrels. I cannot comment directly on your question of whether or not a lone Fox Squirrel would thrive where only Grays live but I would hazard a guess based upon the facts you have mentioned, that this would be less than ideal for several reasons for the lone Foxer but probably an option if no others exist. I would like to encourage opinions and comments from other, please!

    Going back to a release in general, ALL Squirrels raised in captivity MUST have what is called a Soft-Release and must NEVER simply be let go! The Soft-Release program is "tried and true" and constitutes an essential plan to ensure as best as is possible, a successful release for Sonny! This process begins for you with planning and the construction of a special cage called, not surprisingly; a release cage! The Soft-Release begins for the "release-candidate Squirrel" when he is placed in Release Cage (RC) that is located outdoors with some protections from sun and rain (etc), a nest box, and food. The Squirrel will remain in the RC for at least 2 weeks and often for more time than that. A singleton should have significantly more time in the RC before opening the portal than Squirrel raised together and placed in the RC together! The primary purpose of the Soft-Release process is let the Squirrel become acclimated to being outside and to facilitate your Squirrel's natural instincts becoming activated while still being relatively safe, protected, and in a semi-controlled environment. The Soft-Release process will let Sonny, in a very real sense, "wild up" before he ever ventures forth from the RC!

    Please do NOT simply let Sonny loose (this is termed a Hard Release) as this will result in his extreme fear and and without the activation of his natural instincts; he will be unable to recognize what is safe and what is danger and will not be able protect himself or avoid predators and basically will NOT be able to function as a wild Squirrel. A Squirrel that has been hard release will in short order experience extreme fear as he unwittingly awaits an agonizing death by one of the multitude of potential predators waiting to take advantage of a vulnerable Squirrel! I am NOT trying to be dramatic, this is the sad truth! Also, Squirrels are not ready for consideration for Soft-Release until they have fully weaned themselves and have reached 16 weeks, thereabout AND again; they MUST go through the Soft Release Process!

    Here is a link to a thread on The Squirrel Board devoted to comments and suggestion pertaining to a Soft Release: https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...hlight=release

    Please keep Sonny with you while you learn about the Soft Release Process, build a RC and plan on the Soft-Release sometime in the future! We are approaching Winter and you being in Arkansas where Winters can at times be inhospitable; IMHO, overwintering in your home would be something to seriously consider and the plan the Soft-Release in Spring so Sonny will have 3 seasons to further acclimate to the wild and hone his instincts, gather food. locate water sources and much more before being faced with a possibly harsh Winter!

    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

    Thanks for the reply.

    We have raised and released before. We have a large outdoor cage we use to transition for release. It has a nesting box, an area for food/water. We supply branches for them to climb on, dirt to dig in, etc. Our previous releases transitioned here (earlier this year). When the time came, we had made a small 'trap door' in the roof that we opened (big enough for them to go in and out, too small for predators to enter). We supplied food and water in the cage so that they would have resources while becoming accustomed to their new found freedom. We kept the food supplied until it was obvious they were no longer visiting the cage.

    The previous released squirrels (brother/sister...Scoob and Lulu) visited us each day for months until they 'wilded up'. We still see them, they just don't come out of the trees for treats when we call them like they used to. Those were good times. Lulu actually got pregnant (at around 5-6 mo). We've seen both in the last week, and we still leave treats for them around the place.

    Back to Sonny and Earl...

    Sonny came from about 45miles south of us. He was a rescue from a tree that was blown over in a storm in which a sibling didn't make it. A coworker had him and knew we had successfully raised/released previously and that's how we came to care for him. He was approximately 4wks when found as his eyes had not opened at that time. He is about 15 weeks now. We have talked with the coworker re: the necessity for a period of transition at his place (country home with pine coverage) which has acreage/ponds. He will not be given a hard release, that's inhumane.

    A week after we got Sonny, another coworker called and said his dog had just brought in a baby squirrel and dropped it in his living room floor. He lives in a neighborhood, no trees in his yard, doesn't see squirrels, so was unsure where he got him. About 5-6 weeks at the time, but a week or two younger than Sonny.

    There were no visible wounds on Earl, but for a couple days he did drag his back leg a bit. He also seemed just a bit unstable in certain mannerisms. We weren't sure if he had a CHI from a fall, or possibly from being shaken by the dog. We were concerned that he had visual impairment, and while he has greatly improved, we are still not convinced that his left eye is where it should be.

    It took him forever to jump, but he does so now. Just yesterday, he made a jump of about 3-4 feet in the cage. Happy to see that, but we question if he is seeing better or is just accustomed to the cage layout. If one wasn't aware of how he was when we got him, one might not even realize what he had to overcome. Both eat very well, but Sonny is the larger of the two. They get along well.

    Earl will not be released until we know he will be able to have a fighting chance. If that means keeping him until spring, so be it. If it is determined he can't be released, then he will have a good permanent home.

    We are in Arkansas. Winters are generally mild with episodes of short-lived cold spells of near/below freezing, and usually just a few snow events. We don't want to release them before they are ready, but don't want to unnecessarily delay their release...but we will err on the side of caution when the time comes.

  6. 2 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to AverageJoe:

    Chirps (11-03-2024), SamtheSquirrel2018 (11-02-2024)

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Poor eyesight

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  8. Serious fuzzy thank you's to AverageJoe from:

    Chirps (11-03-2024)

  9. #7
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    Default Re: Poor eyesight

    Thanks for your reply and thanks for posting the photos of your little Squirrels! They are spectacular! Please keep on with the updates!
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

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