Soft Clay-like Poo

[ppodcor]

Hi there,

Simon has been doing AMAZING. We moved him into his new cage slowly and he told us he was ready when he just snuggled up and fell asleep in it one day after playing.

His eating has gotten so much better and he is super engaged recently. He is even sucking hard enough to where I now have to hold back the plunger.

He has been on FV since the beginnng. No change to his formula except a new bag which is stored in the freezer. Also, he did get a couple swallows of what I think might have been curdled formula in the nipple from water that was too hot today. It looked almost like yogurt. He has been nibbling on HHBs since he was 5 weeks and opened his eyes. Mostly just ripping them apart.

I noticed that he had a couple of poos that were softer than usual. Not diarrhea, but more clay-like.

Is this from the curdled formula? And do I need to do anything other than keep and eye on him?

Could this just be a symptom of him actually ingesting some of the HHBs and his body is getting used to them or something else?

Could this be because he is now eating TOO fast? We can get through 15ccs in under 10 minutes now. He has never aspirated, but he does eat fast now.

[ppodcor]

Additionally, we added a climbing stick to his cage that we found in the area. I noticed him chewing on the bottom of the stick. Could this be causing issues?

[ppodcor]

Some standard hard poop today, but then when I went to get him at his last meal there were smears in his cage and on his tail. I am concerned it's getting worse. I stimulated, and his poop was shaped coming out but very soft and it got on his tail again.

I am concerned that it's not improving.

[Mouse&Chubs]

Morning, I have a number of questions:

1) About how old is he?
2) How much does he weigh?
3) What percent of his weight are you feeding at?
4) How often do you feed him?

Thanks!

[ppodcor]

Morning, I have a number of questions:

1) About how old is he?
2) How much does he weigh?
3) What percent of his weight are you feeding at?
4) How often do you feed him?

Thanks!

Hi.

1. 8 weeks
2. 255g
3. He eats between 5-7% but so far not above 7%
4. Every 4-5 hrs. He is still not "eating" his blocks. Most just shredding them.

[ppodcor]

It's turned a brighter yellow color and is still very soft. He is still eating formula, munching on his Blocks, and drinking from cage water bottle. He is still active and playing. Just not sure what's going on.

[ppodcor]

Morning, I have a number of questions:

1) About how old is he?
2) How much does he weigh?
3) What percent of his weight are you feeding at?
4) How often do you feed him?

Thanks!

Also, I attempted to switch to feedings 3 times a day and he started losing weight. So he gets feed 4 times a day right now.

[ppodcor]

He has been drinking pain filtered water from his cage bottle during the day - not a lot just noticed him taking sips here and there. Usually when he's munching on his block.

I fed him tonight at 9:30pm, and kept his formula capped at 15cc. That was our 4th and final feeding for the day. I also noticed that I can hear his stomach gurgling after this last feeding. He is still very enthusiastic about eating and is just as active with play, still making his playful grunts. BUT poops are still bright yellow and very soft when coming out. He smears it on his tail and throughout his cage.

Is this a transition period to the HHBs or should I cut back to 3 feedings a day?

[Mouse&Chubs]

When this happened with my current litter of 4, I decreased the feeding to 5% of their weight and no more. At 8 weeks old, I’d highly recommend introducing healthy veggies. This will usually help with the poop and turn it more of that traditional brown color. Once you introduce healthy veggies and foods, the poop should become more solid. Feeding every 5+ hours at this age shouldn’t be an issue. The solid foods will help fill in the diet and if you dropped a feeding, there shouldn’t be an issue with weight gain (the loss of one feeding is made up by the healthy veggies and food). I always start with the healthy lettuces and leafy greens!

Be sure to follow Henry’s pyramid: https://henryspets.com/content/Healt...n2014Print.pdf

[ppodcor]

When this happened with my current litter of 4, I decreased the feeding to 5% of their weight and no more. At 8 weeks old, I’d highly recommend introducing healthy veggies. This will usually help with the poop and turn it more of that traditional brown color. Once you introduce healthy veggies and foods, the poop should become more solid. Feeding every 5+ hours at this age shouldn’t be an issue. The solid foods will help fill in the diet and if you dropped a feeding, there shouldn’t be an issue with weight gain (the loss of one feeding is made up by the healthy veggies and food). I always start with the healthy lettuces and leafy greens!

Be sure to follow Henry’s pyramid: https://henryspets.com/content/Healt...n2014Print.pdf

Thank you! I will try this out. Do you recommend sticking to 5% even if I am removing a feeding?

How are you feeding the leafy greens? Cut up or just let him go to town on the full leaf?

[Mouse&Chubs]

Thank you! I will try this out. Do you recommend sticking to 5% even if I am removing a feeding?

How are you feeding the leafy greens? Cut up or just let him go to town on the full leaf?

You could try decreasing the formula to 5% and do that for a day to see if things improve, but definitely feed greens in the meantime. When they’re young, I definitely rip it up into smaller bite sized pieces - it’s manageable, as opposed to a whole leaf.

If after a day of feeding at 5% and things are still not better, then you can try to drop a feeding, keeping in mind, he will need more greens and blocks to supplement his diet. Always weigh each day and give 24 hours and closely watch the poop.

[ppodcor]

You could try decreasing the formula to 5% and do that for a day to see if things improve, but definitely feed greens in the meantime. When they’re young, I definitely rip it up into smaller bite sized pieces - it’s manageable, as opposed to a whole leaf.

If after a day of feeding at 5% and things are still not better, then you can try to drop a feeding, keeping in mind, he will need more greens and blocks to supplement his diet. Always weigh each day and give 24 hours and closely watch the poop.

Okay. I ended up trying to drop a feeding for two days and he has gone down in weight by 2 grams. So, he's not eating enough to make it up. I will switch back to four 5% feedings and see how we do. So far, he is not interested in the veggies I have given. We only had frozen broccoli and cabbage. Hopefully today we can go get some leafy greens.

We have been getting a few harder poos in-between the softer ones. But still getting those soft poos.

Would you recommend just starting with romaine or iceberg lettuce?

[ppodcor]

You could try decreasing the formula to 5% and do that for a day to see if things improve, but definitely feed greens in the meantime. When they’re young, I definitely rip it up into smaller bite sized pieces - it’s manageable, as opposed to a whole leaf.

If after a day of feeding at 5% and things are still not better, then you can try to drop a feeding, keeping in mind, he will need more greens and blocks to supplement his diet. Always weigh each day and give 24 hours and closely watch the poop.

Okay. Two days now we have been capped at 5% with 4 feedings. We are still getting a combination of normal and soft poos. He is doing better with eating his blocks, but he is still really slow with veggies. Had some nibbles of broccoli, cabbage, iceberg lettuce, and we will try some bits of brussel sprouts tomorrow.

Not sure if I should change anything or just keep going for now. I have to clean him off everyday and he hates it.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Okay. Two days now we have been capped at 5% with 4 feedings. We are still getting a combination of normal and soft poos. He is doing better with eating his blocks, but he is still really slow with veggies. Had some nibbles of broccoli, cabbage, iceberg lettuce, and we will try some bits of brussel sprouts tomorrow.

Not sure if I should change anything or just keep going for now. I have to clean him off everyday and he hates it.

Hello again Ppodcor and Simon:
As usual, I have a few questions and a few comments!
Are you still using the FV 20/50?
Are you mixing anything at all in with the formula besides the powder and fresh bottled water to mix it?
Are you giving any supplements such as Calcium and if so, what specifically are you giving?

The comments below are from a recent prior post I made on another Thread and I modified them somewhat for Simon in particular but using the right formula (which you are!) is only part of the feeding concerns and proper mixing and storing of the powder and the prepared formula are just as important as the formula itself!

There are a number of potential issues that can cause baby Squirrels to have soft stool or even diarrhea.

The FV20/50 should be kept in the freezer except when mixing new formula to keep it from spoiling. Also, any formula that you make should be kept in the refrigerator and disposed of within 24 hours.

What I suspect may be a cause or at least a factor in Simon's soft stools is a common misunderstanding of how this must be prepared. Most people assume that formula can be mixed by using room temperature or even cold water, stirring it a few times and then feeding it to the Squirrel! This is NOT so and the manufacturers neglect being very clear as to how all powdered formulas must be mixed! While doing a "quick-mix," the formula does appear to be completely suspended in the water and ready to go this is NOT the case at all!

A very common cause of soft stool or diarrhea in warm and well hydrated babies (the order of things is that the baby must be warmed before rehydrating and must be rehydrated before being fed) is the use of a "quick mix" of formula! Even though it appears that the powder is thorough mixed, there are really tiny particles of the the formula that are still suspended in the water and not really dissolved can easily be the cause soft or loose stool! The FV 20/50 should be mixed with very hot water! I use heated bottle water as the base for all my formulas and try for a temperature near 170 degrees F just to put a number to it but somewhere between hot tap water which is often around 120-140 degrees and well below boiling will be fine!

Mix only the amount of Formula you need for the next 24 hour period (or be ready to dispose of any extra as ALL mixed liquid Formula must NEVER be kept more than 24 hours under any circumstances! The formula should be hand mixed only but mixed thoroughly, THEN; instead of giving it to the Squirrel, put it in the refrigerator for at least 4 hours and preferably 6-8 hours (or overnight) to allow the particles of formula powder to become fully dissolved in the water. Before each feeding, the formula should be thoroughly hand mixed again and then pulled up in a 1cc syringe preferably with an o-ring plunger. Next, heat a cup of water to around 102-105 degrees F using a thermometer to ensure accuracy and place the syringe into this warm arm water just prior to feeding and this will warm the formula in approximately 30 seconds, check a drop on the back of your wrist just to double check if you want but it should be quire warm (again102-105 F) as the babies prefer it that way, then gently rock the syringe back and forth a few times as a final mixing and to fully distribute the heat and then feed it to your Squirrel!

Following this practice is of extreme importance because a Baby Squirrel (or any baby mammal) is obviously immature and even at Simon's age, their digestive systems are also immature to at least some extent! The babies do not have fully functional digestive capabilities and what happens is that the undissolved particles of powdered formula move through the stomach without any initial digestion by gastric acid and then enter the small intestine where further opportunity for some digestion is compromised by immaturity where the enzymes ordinarily present in the small intestine of an older or adult Squirrel are not fully functional in the baby! The undigested formula exerts what is called an osmotic effect and water is drawn into the intestine and soft or worse yet, diarrhea results! Further, the undigested formula can foster growth of bacteria in the gut and cause inflammatory changes in the intestine and potentially even an infection! What can also occur is just the opposite of quick passage of stool and the Squirrel can become bloated from significantly unmixed formula!

One last thing to mention and that is NEVER mix anything into the formula; no Calcium, no other supplements, no Pedialyte---NOTHING but powdered formula and plain fresh water!

Ppodcor, I obviously don't know how Simon's formula is prepared but if optimal preparation and/or storage of the formula may be issues; these suggestion may be of help to you (and Simon)!

Please keep on with Simon Updates!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[lachy22]

Mine really like dandelion greens and mushrooms like baby bellas, especially the stem. They also freely eat spring mix, especially the curly green lettuce in the mix. It was difficult with mushrooms at first. I started with chopping them up into tiny pieces and he ate them from a tray. Eventually, he got used to it and could just eat a stem without chopping it.
Sweet potato is also a favorite. Haven't had much success myself with cabbage. Mine had days broccoli worked and others it didn't, not a super favorite.
With stuff like broccoli, I chopped some pieces up, mashed it with avocado and some Henry's protein powder and pecan flour, and rolled it in a few balls to eat.

[ppodcor]

Hello again Ppodcor and Simon:
As usual, I have a few questions and a few comments!
Are you still using the FV 20/50?
Are you mixing anything at all in with the formula besides the powder and fresh bottled water to mix it?
Are you giving any supplements such as Calcium and if so, what specifically are you giving?

The comments below are from a recent prior post I made on another Thread and I modified them somewhat for Simon in particular but using the right formula (which you are!) is only part of the feeding concerns and proper mixing and storing of the powder and the prepared formula are just as important as the formula itself!

There are a number of potential issues that can cause baby Squirrels to have soft stool or even diarrhea.

The FV20/50 should be kept in the freezer except when mixing new formula to keep it from spoiling. Also, any formula that you make should be kept in the refrigerator and disposed of within 24 hours.

What I suspect may be a cause or at least a factor in Simon's soft stools is a common misunderstanding of how this must be prepared. Most people assume that formula can be mixed by using room temperature or even cold water, stirring it a few times and then feeding it to the Squirrel! This is NOT so and the manufacturers neglect being very clear as to how all powdered formulas must be mixed! While doing a "quick-mix," the formula does appear to be completely suspended in the water and ready to go this is NOT the case at all!

A very common cause of soft stool or diarrhea in warm and well hydrated babies (the order of things is that the baby must be warmed before rehydrating and must be rehydrated before being fed) is the use of a "quick mix" of formula! Even though it appears that the powder is thorough mixed, there are really tiny particles of the the formula that are still suspended in the water and not really dissolved can easily be the cause soft or loose stool! The FV 20/50 should be mixed with very hot water! I use heated bottle water as the base for all my formulas and try for a temperature near 170 degrees F just to put a number to it but somewhere between hot tap water which is often around 120-140 degrees and well below boiling will be fine!

Mix only the amount of Formula you need for the next 24 hour period (or be ready to dispose of any extra as ALL mixed liquid Formula must NEVER be kept more than 24 hours under any circumstances! The formula should be hand mixed only but mixed thoroughly, THEN; instead of giving it to the Squirrel, put it in the refrigerator for at least 4 hours and preferably 6-8 hours (or overnight) to allow the particles of formula powder to become fully dissolved in the water. Before each feeding, the formula should be thoroughly hand mixed again and then pulled up in a 1cc syringe preferably with an o-ring plunger. Next, heat a cup of water to around 102-105 degrees F using a thermometer to ensure accuracy and place the syringe into this warm arm water just prior to feeding and this will warm the formula in approximately 30 seconds, check a drop on the back of your wrist just to double check if you want but it should be quire warm (again102-105 F) as the babies prefer it that way, then gently rock the syringe back and forth a few times as a final mixing and to fully distribute the heat and then feed it to your Squirrel!

Following this practice is of extreme importance because a Baby Squirrel (or any baby mammal) is obviously immature and even at Simon's age, their digestive systems are also immature to at least some extent! The babies do not have fully functional digestive capabilities and what happens is that the undissolved particles of powdered formula move through the stomach without any initial digestion by gastric acid and then enter the small intestine where further opportunity for some digestion is compromised by immaturity where the enzymes ordinarily present in the small intestine of an older or adult Squirrel are not fully functional in the baby! The undigested formula exerts what is called an osmotic effect and water is drawn into the intestine and soft or worse yet, diarrhea results! Further, the undigested formula can foster growth of bacteria in the gut and cause inflammatory changes in the intestine and potentially even an infection! What can also occur is just the opposite of quick passage of stool and the Squirrel can become bloated from significantly unmixed formula!

One last thing to mention and that is NEVER mix anything into the formula; no Calcium, no other supplements, no Pedialyte---NOTHING but powdered formula and plain fresh water!

Ppodcor, I obviously don't know how Simon's formula is prepared but if optimal preparation and/or storage of the formula may be issues; these suggestion may be of help to you (and Simon)!

Please keep on with Simon Updates!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Hi SamtheSquirrel,

1. We are still using FV 20/50
2. Nothing else is mixed with the formula.
3. No currently giving any calcium supplements.

Formula is stored in the freezer. I make it the night before after his last feeding to allow it to sit and dissolve in fridge overnight. However, I was making a 48hr batch. I thought you could store mixed batches in the fridge for upto 48hrs. If not, I made a new batch last night so I can just discard the rest after today and switch over to only 24hr batches.

Thank you for your assistance. I will switch over and see if it helps.

[ppodcor]

Mine really like dandelion greens and mushrooms like baby bellas, especially the stem. They also freely eat spring mix, especially the curly green lettuce in the mix. It was difficult with mushrooms at first. I started with chopping them up into tiny pieces and he ate them from a tray. Eventually, he got used to it and could just eat a stem without chopping it.
Sweet potato is also a favorite. Haven't had much success myself with cabbage. Mine had days broccoli worked and others it didn't, not a super favorite.
With stuff like broccoli, I chopped some pieces up, mashed it with avocado and some Henry's protein powder and pecan flour, and rolled it in a few balls to eat.

Okay! Thank you for the suggestions. We will keep trying. He has finally started actually eating his HBBs as well. So, we are moving in the right direction.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Okay! Thank you for the suggestions. We will keep trying. He has finally started actually eating his HBBs as well. So, we are moving in the right direction.

That is great news! Another suggestion for solid food transition would be to try to hold off on much of anything else; especially treats, until Simon is avidly consuming two HHBs each day for at least a week! You will still be giving him formula and he will be getting optimal nutritional support! When adding other foods; use Henry's Healthy Foods Pyramid and choose items from the lower levels. Nuts and other treats should be given only rarely (maybe twice per week and spread out and yes, nuts are treats for captive Squirrels or for Squirrels waiting for the Release Cage). Also, as HHBs have no preservatives and can spoil very quickly, please check thoroughly for stashes at least at the end of each day!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[ppodcor]

That is great news! Another suggestion for solid food transition would be to try to hold off on much of anything else; especially treats, until Simon is avidly consuming two HHBs each day for at least a week! You will still be giving him formula and he will be getting optimal nutritional support! When adding other foods; use Henry's Healthy Foods Pyramid and choose items from the lower levels. Nuts and other treats should be given only rarely (maybe twice per week and spread out and yes, nuts are treats for captive Squirrels or for Squirrels waiting for the Release Cage). Also, as HHBs have no preservatives and can spoil very quickly, please check thoroughly for stashes at least at the end of each day!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Thank you! He gets through most of his HHBs throughout the day. There is still a lot of breakdown that I find in his cage. So, he's not fully eating them but definitely getting better everyday.

I have started to introduce the first layer of Henry's nutrition. He seems to like iceberg lettuce. We also tried cabbage, broccoli, and brussel sprouts. But so far only interested in the blocks and iceberg lettuce.