Infant with possible pox?

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Thank you Tnd5:
I'm sorry that you are being put through this. I just want to make sure before I would suggest using your current medication with a revised dosing. I know that you are busy and you have done everything that you were asked and unfortunately, I'm gong to ask one more thing of you! I found the Doo Clav on-line. It is manufactured by the Laborate Pharmaceutical Company in INDIA! I cannot see the details of you photo that gives the amounts of Amoxicillin ("amoxycillin") and clavulanate per a certain amount of the suspension as when I enlarge your photo it quickly becomes pixelated which obscures the details! I cannot be sure that I have found it on-line either as it appears that there may be more than one strength. Would you please try taking one more photo "close-up" of the side of the label with the amounts and what the unit is that they are suspended in; it appears to say "each 1ml (or each 5ml) of reconstituted suspension contains---" OR would you just type it out (this may be the best and easiest)? Once we know this, we can help you by calculating an appropriate dose and giving you dosing instructions! I am at work (as usual) but will check back as often as I am able!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

No bother at all! I obviously do not know what I am doing with this as I have never experienced nor seen it.

As far as mixing up my cc, ml, and mg, that is on me. My head knew what I meant, but my fingers did not type what I was meaning. I will clarify in a PM. I have a couple of pictures of the bottle of Clavamox I will attach.

The pictures are exactly what I am seeing here. All the lesions have started as yellow and circular. They progress to getting hard and raising up and then so dried out, they are cracking and bleeding. The ones on his face are raised somewhat and starting to crack open around his eye. There is also one at the very tip of his tail that started bleeding this morning. There is no exude from these lesions at all that I have seen.

If you think the Clavamox I have, would be ok to give, I will put him back on it, (with the proper dosage). His mouth is a little swollen. I believe that is from the lesions on the left side of his face.

This baby is only 35g. He is not really gaining weight and always looks dehydrated, no matter how many times a day I hydrate him. His poops are really soft and grey colored.Attachment 327572Attachment 327573Attachment 327574

I am so sorry to confuse you. I am exhausted and so worried about this baby boy.

[supersquirrelgirl]

As Sam has questioned and maybe the PM to him will answer.......But....

Pictures are not clear but I think I read on front label in lower right corner - 3g/30ml ??

This is not 3mg/30ml but 1000X stronger.

[tnd5]

As Sam has questioned and maybe the PM to him will answer.......But....

Pictures are not clear but I think I read on front label in lower right corner - 3g/30ml ??

This is not 3mg/30ml but 1000X stronger.

Yes, supersquirrelgirl, it is 3g/30ml.

[tnd5]

Thank you Tnd5:
I'm sorry that you are being put through this. I just want to make sure before I would suggest using your current medication with a revised dosing. I know that you are busy and you have done everything that you were asked and unfortunately, I'm gong to ask one more thing of you! I found the Doo Clav on-line. It is manufactured by the Laborate Pharmaceutical Company in INDIA! I cannot see the details of you photo that gives the amounts of Amoxicillin ("amoxycillin") and clavulanate per a certain amount of the suspension as when I enlarge your photo it quickly becomes pixelated which obscures the details! I cannot be sure that I have found it on-line either as it appears that there may be more than one strength. Would you please try taking one more photo "close-up" of the side of the label with the amounts and what the unit is that they are suspended in; it appears to say "each 1ml (or each 5ml) of reconstituted suspension contains---" OR would you just type it out (this may be the best and easiest)? Once we know this, we can help you by calculating an appropriate dose and giving you dosing instructions! I am at work (as usual) but will check back as often as I am able!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

INDIA!!!! oh, my! I will try to get a better pic, but if not, I will type it all out in a PM.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Yes, supersquirrelgirl, it is 3g/30ml.

Let's NOT use this at least at this point as the specific details should be on the other side of the label where it states how much of each component is in a certain amount of the suspension! There are two components to this medication, the Amoxicillin and Clavulanate! We need to know how much of each. The little stamp of 3g/30ml will not be as accurate as what is on the other side of the label and may not really work out to be case when the concentrations are "mathed" out. This may add to the confusion. We'll need to see clearly what the full label states!
Thanks,
StS

[supersquirrelgirl]

Let's NOT use this at least at this point as the specific details should be on the other side of the label where it states how much of each component is in a certain amount of the suspension! There are two components to this medication, the Amoxicillin and Clavulanate! We need to know how much of each. The little stamp of 3g/30ml will not be as accurate as what is on the other side of the label and may not really work out to be case when the concentrations are "mathed" out. This may add to the confusion. We'll need to see clearly what the full label states!
Thanks,
StS

Got it. Sorry to jump in.....

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Got it. Sorry to jump in.....

No problems at all, MrSSG! Please jump in at any time!
Regards,
StS

[tnd5]

Let's NOT use this at least at this point as the specific details should be on the other side of the label where it states how much of each component is in a certain amount of the suspension! There are two components to this medication, the Amoxicillin and Clavulanate! We need to know how much of each. The little stamp of 3g/30ml will not be as accurate as what is on the other side of the label and may not really work out to be case when the concentrations are "mathed" out. This may add to the confusion. We'll need to see clearly what the full label states!
Thanks,
StS

See if this is any clearer.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Thanks Tnd5! Please verify; it appears that the label states that "Each 5 ml of reconstituted suspension contains: Amoxicillin 200mg and Clavulanate 28.5mg"

It would be nice to know what the 3g/30ml means but it doesn't work out mathematically with the amoxicillin alone (if 5ml contains 200mg, then 30ml would contain 1200mg) or added to the clavulanate (5ml would contain 228.5 so 30ml would contain 1371). Please verify how much water the instructions said to add to the powder. Was it 30ml or a little less so that the water and the powder made 30ml of suspension? if so, then I suspect that the 3g/30ml on the front label implies that the powder with its medication and probably some "filler" material weighed 3g and this powder + filler was added to enough water to make 30ml of suspension. Again, please verify how you mixed this. When you do this, we can give you some dosing recommendations for your 35G baby Squirrel. As you apparently cannot obtain any other "fresh" antibiotics and this suspension was kept in the refrigerator and it is all that you have, we have no real options except to use this if antibiotics are to be continued!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[tnd5]

Thanks Tnd5! Please verify; it appears that the label states that "Each 5 ml of reconstituted suspension contains: Amoxicillin 200mg and Clavulanate 28.5mg"

It would be nice to know what the 3g/30ml means but it doesn't work out mathematically with the amoxicillin alone (if 5ml contains 200mg, then 30ml would contain 1200mg) or added to the clavulanate (5ml would contain 228.5 so 30ml would contain 1371). Please verify how much water the instructions said to add to the powder. Was it 30ml or a little less so that the water and the powder made 30ml of suspension? if so, then I suspect that the 3g/30ml on the front label implies that the powder with its medication and probably some "filler" material weighed 3g and this powder + filler was added to enough water to make 30ml of suspension. Again, please verify how you mixed this. When you do this, we can give you some dosing recommendations for your 35G baby Squirrel. As you apparently cannot obtain any other "fresh" antibiotics and this suspension was kept in the refrigerator and it is all that you have, we have no real options except to use this if antibiotics are to be continued!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Yes, it says each 5ml of reconstituted suspension contains 200mg Amoxicillin and 28.5mg of Clavulante.

The mixing directions on the bottle are as follows: "Add boiled and cooled water up the mark on the bottle and shake well. Adjust the volume up to the mark by adding more water if necessary. The reconstituted suspension should be stored in the refrigerator and used within 4 days of preparation."

I followed these directions exactly.

Hope this helps

tnd5

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Yes, it says each 5ml of reconstituted suspension contains 200mg Amoxicillin and 28.5mg of Clavulante.

The mixing directions on the bottle are as follows: "Add boiled and cooled water up the mark on the bottle and shake well. Adjust the volume up to the mark by adding more water if necessary. The reconstituted suspension should be stored in the refrigerator and used within 4 days of preparation."

I followed these directions exactly.

Hope this helps

tnd5

Yes, thanks! I sent a PM to for dosing! How is your Squirrel doing today?
Regards,
StS

[tnd5]

Yes, thanks! I sent a PM to for dosing! How is your Squirrel doing today?
Regards,
StS

Thank you. He seems a bit more lethargic today. He is still eating and pottying. I am starting the antibiotic immediately. Praying it helps him.

tnd5

[supersquirrelgirl]

Glad the Amox/Clav solution is clear so the dose can be correct. Thank you Sam for keeping a clear mind to get concentration information. I always learn something from your post!

Tnd5,

I'm re-reading the entire thread. You indicated you pickup 2 babies. Does the other baby have any lesions or pimples ??

Did these lesions and pimples start to appear after you did intake ?? Could they be related to anything used for cleaning, dressing or food related ?? (thinking of some allergy or reaction) Anything different done between babies ?? Maybe bedding, blakets, laundry soap ??

This baby has been treated with betadine, antifungal cream, Baytril, Augmentin, ibuprofen, all this within last 7-10 days. Is it fair to say regarless of treatment, the lesions and pimples continue to spread ??

Just thinking out load here.....

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Thank you. He seems a bit more lethargic today. He is still eating and pottying. I am starting the antibiotic immediately. Praying it helps him.

tnd5

Hi Tnd5:
I'm glad that you reviewed my PM! Going back to your baby Squirrel's diet; I made the assumption that may be wrong that the Goat's Milk Esbilac was being given in "transition" but if not and it is being continued; please make a change beginning TODAY where you transition to Esbilac POWDERED Puppy Milk Replacer (do NOT use the liquid)! Mix this with warm water as 1 part Esbilac to 2 parts of the warm water.

This formula is available at most pet-shops such as PetSmart and PetCo and even Tractor Supply! You mentioned in one of your posts that you were going to use Fox Valley 20/50 after 5 weeks and that is fine but even at 4 weeks (and Spanky transitions to half Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer and half Fox Valley 20/50 at 3-1/2 weeks! or you can do what a number of us do and that is continue the mixed Esbilac Powdered Puppy Milk Replacer and combine this with and equal amount of the FV 20/50 in a 50:50 mixture. I would like to recommend getting away from the Goats milk products!

I would suggest utilizing a relatively short transition period where you use both the Goat Esbilac and the Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer but decrease the portion of Goat's Milk Esbilac with each feeding while increasing the Esbilac Puppy Milk portion with each feeding and complete the transition over the next 48-72 hours so that your Squirrel is no longer getting fed the Goat's Milk and is using exclusively the Esbilac POWDERED Puppy Milk Replacer. Just as a suggestion, start now with 3/4 Goat Esbilac and 1/4 Esbilac Puppy Milk and continue to increase the percentage of the Puppy Milk Replacer and decrease the percentage of the Goat Esbilac maybe every other feeding. IF there is a significant change in consistency of the stool or actual diarrhea develops, this transition will need to be temporarily turned back a stage or two and slowed down as well. Hopefully this will not happen and go slow enough to minimize the likelihood of diarrhea developing!

Just so wee will know; are you weighing your baby every morning and calculating every feeding of formula for that day based upon the mornings weight and using somewhere in the ballpark of the 5%-7% "rule?" This is where you would give the amount of EACH feeding for the day based upon the weight of the Squirrel that morning. As an example, the current weight is 35 Grams. 5% of 35 is 1.75 and 7% of 35 is 2.45 so you would give somewhere between 2ml (rounding up) to 2.5 ml of formula with each feeding. Ideally, the feeding should be closer to the 7% side than the 5%! I am pasting a link to Henry's page on the preparation, amounts and frequencies of feeding as this should be very beneficial to you; https://henryspets.com/3-how-to-feed-a-baby-squirrel/

With the Amoxicillin plus Clavulanate, and the transition of formulas, it would be a good idea to also provide some Probiotics!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[tnd5]

Glad the Amox/Clav solution is clear so the dose can be correct. Thank you Sam for keeping a clear mind to get concentration information. I always learn something from your post!

Tnd5,

I'm re-reading the entire thread. You indicated you pickup 2 babies. Does the other baby have any lesions or pimples ??

Did these lesions and pimples start to appear after you did intake ?? Could they be related to anything used for cleaning, dressing or food related ?? (thinking of some allergy or reaction) Anything different done between babies ?? Maybe bedding, blakets, laundry soap ??

This baby has been treated with betadine, antifungal cream, Baytril, Augmentin, ibuprofen, all this within last 7-10 days. Is it fair to say regarless of treatment, the lesions and pimples continue to spread ??

Just thinking out load here.....

Supersquirrel, The other baby is fine. No lesions or pimples. She is gaining weight, etc. Thank God for that!

Yes, even with all the treatment I was doing the lesions were continuing to spread. Thankfully, there are NO new ones today and few of the scabs are starting fall off with new pink skin under them!

[tnd5]

Hi Tnd5:
I'm glad that you reviewed my PM! Going back to your baby Squirrel's diet; I made the assumption that may be wrong that the Goat's Milk Esbilac was being given in "transition" but if not and it is being continued; please make a change beginning TODAY where you transition to Esbilac POWDERED Puppy Milk Replacer (do NOT use the liquid)! Mix this with warm water as 1 part Esbilac to 2 parts of the warm water.

This formula is available at most pet-shops such as PetSmart and PetCo and even Tractor Supply! You mentioned in one of your posts that you were going to use Fox Valley 20/50 after 5 weeks and that is fine but even at 4 weeks (and Spanky transitions to half Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer and half Fox Valley 20/50 at 3-1/2 weeks! or you can do what a number of us do and that is continue the mixed Esbilac Powdered Puppy Milk Replacer and combine this with and equal amount of the FV 20/50 in a 50:50 mixture. I would like to recommend getting away from the Goats milk products!

I would suggest utilizing a relatively short transition period where you use both the Goat Esbilac and the Esbilac Puppy Milk Replacer but decrease the portion of Goat's Milk Esbilac with each feeding while increasing the Esbilac Puppy Milk portion with each feeding and complete the transition over the next 48-72 hours so that your Squirrel is no longer getting fed the Goat's Milk and is using exclusively the Esbilac POWDERED Puppy Milk Replacer. Just as a suggestion, start now with 3/4 Goat Esbilac and 1/4 Esbilac Puppy Milk and continue to increase the percentage of the Puppy Milk Replacer and decrease the percentage of the Goat Esbilac maybe every other feeding. IF there is a significant change in consistency of the stool or actual diarrhea develops, this transition will need to be temporarily turned back a stage or two and slowed down as well. Hopefully this will not happen and go slow enough to minimize the likelihood of diarrhea developing!

Just so wee will know; are you weighing your baby every morning and calculating every feeding of formula for that day based upon the mornings weight and using somewhere in the ballpark of the 5%-7% "rule?" This is where you would give the amount of EACH feeding for the day based upon the weight of the Squirrel that morning. As an example, the current weight is 35 Grams. 5% of 35 is 1.75 and 7% of 35 is 2.45 so you would give somewhere between 2ml (rounding up) to 2.5 ml of formula with each feeding. Ideally, the feeding should be closer to the 7% side than the 5%! I am pasting a link to Henry's page on the preparation, amounts and frequencies of feeding as this should be very beneficial to you; https://henryspets.com/3-how-to-feed-a-baby-squirrel/

With the Amoxicillin plus Clavulanate, and the transition of formulas, it would be a good idea to also provide some Probiotics!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Thank you, SamtheSquirrel. I do have some regular Esbilac powder, but I think I will start transitioning to the FV 20/50, as they will be 4 weeks old in a couple of days. I have been giving probiotics at least once a day.

Something I have had in the back of my mind is, Do you think this little guy could be allergic to the GME?

Yes, I weigh each and every morning and feed 5% body weight. I will try to work up to 6%, but they seem really full and slow down nursing at 5%.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Thank you, SamtheSquirrel. I do have some regular Esbilac powder, but I think I will start transitioning to the FV 20/50, as they will be 4 weeks old in a couple of days. I have been giving probiotics at least once a day.

Something I have had in the back of my mind is, Do you think this little guy could be allergic to the GME?

Yes, I weigh each and every morning and feed 5% body weight. I will try to work up to 6%, but they seem really full and slow down nursing at 5%.

Thanks Tnd5!

Other concerns are that IF this baby is 4 weeks of age (on your post from 7/24 I believe you stated 2-1/2 to 3 weeks which may be closer) is that he is underweight! At 4 weeks, 75-80 Grams would not be at all unusual and your baby weighs only 35 Grams! Does your Squirrel have evidence of lower incisor development which usually begins at around the 3rd week? Hair growth beginning but obvious on belly and limbs at 4 weeks! Eyes open at 5 weeks. Please correlate weight and signs of age. He may not really be 4 weeks yet but is so, he is behind in growth OR is there any chance that your Scale is inaccurate? If the weight is accurate, he should be fed as if he was of the age that correlates best with the weight. Please check for definitive age related signs (such as the lower incisors coming in around the 3rd week). Although photos are often difficult to correlate to actual weight, he seems to appear more than 35 Grams of Squirrel! This is a major concern as weight MUST be accurate and should be correlated with known milestones of age! Also, frequency of feedings directly correlated with age and as we are discussing; the amount of formula that should be consumed is directly correlated to weight! 5% of an accurate body weight is the MINIMUM and while feeding should be carefully performed and all steps taken to prevent aspiration; at least 6 and preferably getting 7% of body weight in milliliters of formula consumed is closer to optimal!

Another thing to consider is the Temperature of the formula which should be quite warm and I would suggest using around 103-105 degrees F as a goal for temperature of the formula!

Good for the Probiotics!

An allergy to Goats milk is certainly possible but it will be far easier to suspect it after the fact and that is if the lesions tend to resolve (which I hope they will anyway!) after discontinuation of the Goat's Milk!

Please try to define age by identifying definitive physical evidence of known age related milestones such as eye opening at 5 weeks or the emergence of the lower incisors at around 3 weeks! Also, IMHO, it MUST be determined that your scales are ACCURATE. IF the scales and your baby weight are accurate, he should be fed according to his weight and not his age as he is behind in development at 35 Grams. I would also suggest that the Esbilac Goats milk formula be phased out beginning now regardless of any other factors but if he is really at 35 Grams (which is the weight of a 2 week baby), I would suggest using the Esbilac POWDERED Puppy Milk Replacer for at least another week or 10 days and see how the weight is coming along! Again, if the weight is accurate, I would recommend feeding the 5% (the very minimum!)-7% every 3 hours just as if he was 2-3 weeks old!

IF it is determined that your scales are inaccurate we will need to recompute not just your Squirrel's formula dose and frequency of feeding but also his antibiotic dosing!

Please check on your scales and for the physical signs that are age related and can help to determine your Baby's actual age!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hello again Tnd:
Do you know what species of Squirrel this Little One belongs to?
Regards,
StS

[tnd5]

Thanks Tnd5!

Other concerns are that IF this baby is 4 weeks of age (on your post from 7/24 I believe you stated 2-1/2 to 3 weeks which may be closer) is that he is underweight! At 4 weeks, 75-80 Grams would not be at all unusual and your baby weighs only 35 Grams! Does your Squirrel have evidence of lower incisor development which usually begins at around the 3rd week? Hair growth beginning but obvious on belly and limbs at 4 weeks! Eyes open at 5 weeks. Please correlate weight and signs of age. He may not really be 4 weeks yet but is so, he is behind in growth OR is there any chance that your Scale is inaccurate? If the weight is accurate, he should be fed as if he was of the age that correlates best with the weight. Please check for definitive age related signs (such as the lower incisors coming in around the 3rd week). Although photos are often difficult to correlate to actual weight, he seems to appear more than 35 Grams of Squirrel! This is a major concern as weight MUST be accurate and should be correlated with known milestones of age! Also, frequency of feedings directly correlated with age and as we are discussing; the amount of formula that should be consumed is directly correlated to weight! 5% of an accurate body weight is the MINIMUM and while feeding should be carefully performed and all steps taken to prevent aspiration; at least 6 and preferably getting 7% of body weight in milliliters of formula consumed is closer to optimal!

Another thing to consider is the Temperature of the formula which should be quite warm and I would suggest using around 103-105 degrees F as a goal for temperature of the formula!

Good for the Probiotics!

An allergy to Goats milk is certainly possible but it will be far easier to suspect it after the fact and that is if the lesions tend to resolve (which I hope they will anyway!) after discontinuation of the Goat's Milk!

Please try to define age by identifying definitive physical evidence of known age related milestones such as eye opening at 5 weeks or the emergence of the lower incisors at around 3 weeks! Also, IMHO, it MUST be determined that your scales are ACCURATE. IF the scales and your baby weight are accurate, he should be fed according to his weight and not his age as he is behind in development at 35 Grams. I would also suggest that the Esbilac Goats milk formula be phased out beginning now regardless of any other factors but if he is really at 35 Grams (which is the weight of a 2 week baby), I would suggest using the Esbilac POWDERED Puppy Milk Replacer for at least another week or 10 days and see how the weight is coming along! Again, if the weight is accurate, I would recommend feeding the 5% (the very minimum!)-7% every 3 hours just as if he was 2-3 weeks old!

IF it is determined that your scales are inaccurate we will need to recompute not just your Squirrel's formula dose and frequency of feeding but also his antibiotic dosing!

Please check on your scales and for the physical signs that are age related and can help to determine your Baby's actual age!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Hi, StS, I checked my scale and reweighed this little boy. I also weighed various items, with known weight, to assure the accuracy. He is 35g. I know he is small. His incisors are in and his coat is smooth, not fuzzy anymore. I feed by weight only and feed every 3 hours, with hydration in between. Formula temp is good according to candy thermometer. So, I am guessing he is closer to 3 weeks of age? A lot of his scabs started falling off today.

Unfortunately, I found a lesion on his sister's mouth this afternoon. She is 45g and looks great. She came from the same place and finder and covered in the same dirt under the same tree. In my research I have found the incubation period is 7 days to 2 months! they have been seperated for 10 days. Can I put her with her brother in isolation? I am just devastated over this 2nd baby.

He is on full strength FV 20/50 at this point.

Thank you for your help!
tnd5

[tnd5]

Hello again Tnd:
Do you know what species of Squirrel this Little One belongs to?
Regards,
StS

We believe he and his sister are Fox squirrels or crosses of Fox/Gray.