A difference between the two...

[AverageJoe]

I am raising 2 (boy and girl) young (approximately 2-3wks old) grays, and have been for a week now. They are kept in the same conditions, fed the same diet (esbilac milk replacer with probiotics) and occasional pedialyte (diluted).

They both took to the 1cc syringe very well and both have both regular bowel and bladder movements. Initially, both took approximately 3/4 - 1 cc. The boy was easier to feed, the girl liked to root around a bit before eating. The boy always seemed to pass out after eating (to which I assumed was a satisfied belly), the girl likes to squirm and crawl before settling down. We initially tried to feed every 2hrs or so (even through the night if they wanted) but have stretched the feedings to a little less frequently.

We keep in a box with a non-shutoff heating pad underneath, and a heater to keep the room toasty.

The last several days, the girl has increased her volume intake, while the little boy takes the same, or possibly a bit less. He also is not as eager to take the feedings. Once he does eat, he'll curl up in my palm and go to sleep.

It now appears the little girl is beginning to outpace the boy in size, but not significantly. But with the more robust appetite and the appearance of getting a bit bigger, I worry that something might be wrong and want to stay on top of things.

He is not bloated. They both stool similarly. I assume that one might get a growth spurt and this could account for difference. But my concern is that I am missing something and any help/advice would be appreciated.

There is no squirrel rehabilitation nearby.

Additional info: very young. Ears starting to separate. Stool became 'yellow' with the formula. They both will 'crawl around' and grunt. No abnormal respiratory sounds. No scale to obtain weight.
Thank you,
Joe

[AverageJoe]

Just to clarify, even though both do crawl around, the girl is more active.

[TomahawkFlyers]

I'm on the run right now, but it sounds as if you are doing well. One point - be certain your squirrels have an area where they can get off of the heating pad. They need cool-down periods.

Jamie

[AverageJoe]

I'm on the run right now, but it sounds as if you are doing well. One point - be certain your squirrels have an area where they can get off of the heating pad. They need cool-down periods.

Jamie

I was not aware of that.
Done
Thank you,
joe

[Spanky]

Hi Joe, to TSB!

fed the same diet (esbilac milk replacer with probiotics) and occasional pedialyte (diluted).

Are you using the powdered Esbilac (not the liquid or goat's milk versions)? If yes, please be sure to keep the opened can of powder in the freezer (or at least the refrigerator).

No scale to obtain weight.

It sounds to me like they are not getting enough to eat. It is critically important to have a scale, because feeding amounts are determined by the weight of the squirrel. It is also critical in the event medications are needed as medications doses are determined by weight.... last thing you want is a delay in medication treatment for lake of a scale. A simple digital kitchen scale is fine... these are less than $15 at WalMart.

Squirrels should be eating 5% - 7% of their weight each feeding... so a 100gram squirrel would be eating 5ml - 7ml every feeding. A baby that weights 20grams should be eating 1ml -1.4ml every feeding, and getting fed every 2 - 3 hours around the clock. If theirs ears are starting to open, they are probably larger than 20 grams... I am attaching a couple charts on amounts and frequencies to make this simpler.

SquirrelBoard Feeding CheatSheet.pdf

[AverageJoe]

Hi Joe, to TSB!



Are you using the powdered Esbilac (not the liquid or goat's milk versions)? If yes, please be sure to keep the opened can of powder in the freezer (or at least the refrigerator).



It sounds to me like they are not getting enough to eat. It is critically important to have a scale, because feeding amounts are determined by the weight of the squirrel. It is also critical in the event medications are needed as medications doses are determined by weight.... last thing you want is a delay in medication treatment for lake of a scale. A simple digital kitchen scale is fine... these are less than $15 at WalMart.

Squirrels should be eating 5% - 7% of their weight each feeding... so a 100gram squirrel would be eating 5ml - 7ml every feeding. A baby that weights 20grams should be eating 1ml -1.4ml every feeding, and getting fed every 2 - 3 hours around the clock. If theirs ears are starting to open, they are probably larger than 20 grams... I am attaching a couple charts on amounts and frequencies to make this simpler.

SquirrelBoard Feeding CheatSheet.pdf

Yes, it is the powdered version. I will refrigerate the can.

Now, off to walmart to get a scale.

[AverageJoe]

Should I allow the babies to 'eat until they're done' regardless of volume, or stop at the recommended volume? The boy, for the last couple days, has lost interest at around 3/4cc, whereas the girl will take a bit more than 1.

Since this morning, I focused on making sure he's hydrated, and maybe it's just me, but he seems to be a bit better. I will continue to monitor.

I have on order, Fox Valley 20/50, should be here in a couple days. Is it recommended to start that soon based upon assumed age, or is that better dictated by weight?

[AverageJoe]

[Squirrels should be eating 5% - 7% of their weight each feeding... so a 100gram squirrel would be eating 5ml - 7ml every feeding. A baby that weights 20grams should be eating 1ml -1.4ml every feeding, and getting fed every 2 - 3 hours around the clock. If theirs ears are starting to open, they are probably larger than 20 grams... I am attaching a couple charts on amounts and frequencies to make this simpler. [/FONT]


Got a scale.

Female = 22g
Male = 19g

Would it be safe to assume this wt difference is negligible and they are progressing fine? Or if 3g difference at this age is something to continue to monitor?

Thanks,
Joe

[Spanky]

Got a scale.

Fantastic!

Female = 22g
Male = 19g

Would it be safe to assume this wt difference is negligible and they are progressing fine? Or if 3g difference at this age is something to continue to monitor?

I'd not be too very concerned about this weight difference. Making certain the formula is offered very warm, much warmer than a human... hotter than we'd typically consider!

As long as he takes the 5% each feeding and continues to gain weight daily, peeing and pooing, no bloat.. then no worries. It is best to weigh them daily at the same time... like each morning before their 6AM (or 7AM, 9AM, whatever) feeding.

[AverageJoe]

Fantastic!



I'd not be too very concerned about this weight difference. Making certain the formula is offered very warm, much warmer than a human... hotter than we'd typically consider!

As long as he takes the 5% each feeding and continues to gain weight daily, peeing and pooing, no bloat.. then no worries. It is best to weigh them daily at the same time... like each morning before their 6AM (or 7AM, 9AM, whatever) feeding.

I appreciate all the information, and would like to give an update, as well as ask a few more questions.

Just a little info...they have been under our care for 2 weeks as of yesterday. Estimated to be approximately 3 wks old.

We are continuing to feed the Esbilac, and occasional Pedialyte. Here is their intake yesterday (typical feeding pattern):

Her. Him. Time. Esbilac or Pedialyte
1.8. 1.2. 0300. E
2. 2. 0645. E
2. 2. 1130. E
1. 1. 1530. P
1. 1. 1730. E
2. 1.75. 1900. E
2. 2. 2200. E


Wt gain over last week (in grams)

Her. Him
22. 19
25. 20
27. 22
27. 22
30. 24
32. 24
37. 25

These wts are collected before their early evening feeding.

They both are active, although she does have a more robust feeding than he does, and it would seem that she could possibly take more, but I do try to follow the wt/intake guidelines.

My question is...are they on pace for the appropriate wt gain, and is the fact that she is outpacing him in wt gain a concern? Are we feeding enough or often enough? I did see a growth chart posted on another thread on this site, and it would appear that we are behind the curve. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Joe

[Mel1959]

I’d not use pedialyte as a hydration source any longer. Switch over to water sweetened with honey or agave. Pedialyte has a lot of salt in it and for plain hydration it’s not necessary. Offer the hydration in between a normal feeding and not in place of a normally scheduled feeding.

At about 3.5 to 4 weeks you can slowly transition to FV 20/50. Many rehabbers like to use a 50/50 combination of Esbilac and FV until they wean. Either way you want to transition to the new formula slowly. Here’s the best way to do it: mix up the old and new formulas separately. For several feedings feed 75% old formula and 25% new formula. Then feed 50% old formula and 50% new formula for several feedings. Then go to 25% old formula and 75% new formula for several feedings. After that you will be on 100% new formula. This process should take several days. If at any time you notice loose stool don’t progress to the next formula combination until it stabilizes.

FV formula is a richer formula…..which is why you want to take the transition slow so you don’t upset the GI system. They may not eat as often and feel fuller longer once you introduce the FV.

As they get older they may want more than the recommended 5-7%. This is fine just make and increases gradual. In other words, don’t jump from 2ml to 4ml at one feeding.

To answer your question about weight gain. It is normal for them to gain at different rates. I’ve also had a smaller one eventually surpass the bigger ones. As long as they are both eating and gaining weight, I wouldn’t worry. However, they should NEVER lose weight.

[Spanky]

Are we feeding enough or often enough? I did see a growth chart posted on another thread on this site, and it would appear that we are behind the curve. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Joe

At 3 weeks they should be getting fed formula every 3 hours. I'd be going around the clock for a few more weeks with them being below the curve.

Don't substitute Pedialyte for formula... formula...every 3 hours. 5% - 7%.

If they need extra hydration, use plain water in between feedings... so 0.5 - 1ml 1.5hours after a formula feeding. When they achieve proper hydration they should not require any extra fluids; the formula feedings should supply enough.

Adding Fox Valley Ultraboost to their formula can help them catch up weight wise.

[AverageJoe]

OK...we may have a problem...

Since noon yesterday, we fed him at the following times:
Saturday
1215
1500
1800
2145

Sunday
0130
0530
1005
1330
1730

Each feeding, he took 2cc, except the 1005 and 1330, where he took 1.8 and 1.5

At his weigh in, he dropped 1g.

Now that may or may not be too concerning, but we noticed his index finger on the left hand appears to be swollen. He does not favor it, and does not appear to be tender to the touch. I'll attempt to post a picture.

Could this be infected? Could it have gotten broken? Suggestions for treatment would be appreciated.

[AverageJoe]

So our little guy, Scooby, lost the tip of his finger yesterday. There is no redness nor apparent pain. Still not sure what happened.

Still concerned about weight. He is eating within the guidelines and is putting on weight (6g since yesterday), but is nowhere near to keeping pace with his sister, Lulu. He has gained about 15g in the last 4 days.

Her weight today is 76g, his is 49g.

She is growing her fur, her tail is getting longer and thicker, and overall just appears more healthy.
He has hair, but just doesn't appear as robust as she. Are we on the right track, or are we missing something? Is the difference/appearance something that needs attention?

Here is today's pic of the two...

[island rehabber]

Does the boy have little white bumps on him or is that just the camera's graininess? If they are white bumps that indicates a mild staph infection on his skin and you should wipe him down with diluted betadine twice a day. Dilute until the betadine is the color of weak tea. He may have a weaker immune system which would explain this. The finger looked as if it was in trouble from a while back and for what ever reason became gangrenous and fell off. Did you check to make sure there is no thread or hair wrapped around any of his other fingers? sometimes this can be the cause.

[AverageJoe]

Does the boy have little white bumps on him or is that just the camera's graininess? If they are white bumps that indicates a mild staph infection on his skin and you should wipe him down with diluted betadine twice a day. Dilute until the betadine is the color of weak tea. He may have a weaker immune system which would explain this. The finger looked as if it was in trouble from a while back and for what ever reason became gangrenous and fell off. Did you check to make sure there is no thread or hair wrapped around any of his other fingers? sometimes this can be the cause.

That is camera issues. No bumps, but the skin does appear a dry. We did pull a hair off the hand of one of them a week or so ago, so that is probably the cause.

We are concerned about the little guy. He had been eating within guidelines, but especially since the last post, it's been a struggle to get him to eat. Lulu essentially attacks the syringe and wags the tail while eating. He, on the other hand, has turned away from it, and it almost feels like we are forcing feeds (but we're not).

His 10pm feeding was about 2ccs
At 130am, he reluctantly took a little more than 1cc, and it took awhile to get it in.
At 4am, he took 1cc somewhat well, rested in my hands for awhile, then most of another cc.

I would say he's a less energetic (maybe somewhat lethargic) than he has been. We are thinking maybe AP, as on a recent feeding, he did have some come out the nose and had a sneezing episode. Or could there be a problem stemming from the finger?

I have a 500mg tablet of amoxicillin. Could that be used to treat? If so, what would be the dose? I appreciate the help

[Mel1959]

I’d consider getting some Fox Valley Ultraboost formula and adding it to your formula mixture. Basically you substitute 25-50% of the regular formula powder with the Ultraboost powder and then mix with the recommended water amount. The Ultraboost provides extra calories and nutrition and is designed for weight gain. I always add it to my formula.

[Mel1959]

Have you tried providing some water in between normal feedings? Dehydration can cause lack of appetite. I think amoxicillin can be used, but I’ll wait for others to chime in and provide dosing instructions. In the meantime try to locate any other type of antibiotic in case the amoxicillin is less than ideal.

[AverageJoe]

Have you tried providing some water in between normal feedings? Dehydration can cause lack of appetite. I think amoxicillin can be used, but I’ll wait for others to chime in and provide dosing instructions. In the meantime try to locate any other type of antibiotic in case the amoxicillin is less than ideal.

We have, over the last several days, added water/honey mixture (from a previous recommendation in this thread) between feedings.

[CritterMom]

Dosing sent by PM.

Amoxicillin would not be a top choice but I have absolutely seen it work on A/P. If you should stumble on any other antibiotics, let us know - you CAN change meds if you need to.