Hello I'm new here

[Icemouse]

OK, so I am guessing that if you had tried to take some lettuce or a chunk of apple from him, you would have been fine. I call them "high reward" foods - things they would kill their mother for. Nuts are absolutely high reward. But I would call corn a member of that food group too because they LOVE it. BTW, corn is one of the worst foods you can feed from an MBD point of view - it is actually worse than nuts. I don't feed it.

I would also have your husband start leaving ONE nut for him, not two. So you can start at that plus the fragments in the evening.

And as I said, at least with boy squirrels, this puberty period is just baked in. It is going to happen, and their behavior will be enough to make you want to hide for a while but then, boom, it goes away. They will have different moods connected to seasonal hormonal changes, too. It is nothing as pronounced as what you are seeing now. My boy, Zeke, spends 10 months of the year snuggling in my lap, playing with me, wrestling with me, he would be surgically implanted onto me if he could be. Then he spends about 2 months in the late summer keeping me at arms length, doesn't want to cuddle, just blows off all of my attempts to get him to be my sweet lovin' boy and does his own thing. And then suddenly, a couple months later, he will jump into my lap and we are done with THAT nonsense for another 10 months!

Thanks again for your great help. I'm going through the whole house today checking for stashes again.
Hamy has foods he loves like corn, sugar peas and cherries without the pit. Those foods are banned from now on.
Can I still give Hamy food when he's out? Should I take the rodent blocks off the boards of his highway as well? Can I still give Hamy treats through the hardware cloth?
So far Hamy is tail throwing and chattering. He's really restless. He's so busy jumping up and down his cage that he has no time for breakfast.
I desided to make myself rare today. I'll stay out of the room where his cage is in for most of the day. I thought I watch his sleeping pattern. If he has a nap at lunchtime I'll just wait till he's awake again to give him his free time... maybe he's back to the summer schedule where he needs his afternoon nap before he comes out....
Well lets hope we have a better day today

[Charley Chuckles]

The hard rodent block I sometimes cut in half so they fit though the wire.

I'd pick up everything that he could get possessive over 🙄
Good luck and he'll calm down soon 🙏

[Icemouse]

The hard rodent block I sometimes cut in half so they fit though the wire.

I'd pick up everything that he could get possessive over 🙄
Good luck and he'll calm down soon 🙏

I did bend the wire a tiny wee bit to fit the rodent blocks through the wire. I also cleaned up his highway.
Hamy did calm down at about 10am. He was sleeping a lot. He was in and out of his house all day. He did not threaten me or my hubby in any way.
We both gave him some rodent blocks and veg through the wire. Hamy seemed really tired all day. He kept having short naps then he ate again then straight back to sleep.
I think it was a bit much for Hamy yesterday as well. He seems to be a bit down just like me....
Hamy didn't have any free time today. He was never up long enough to give it a try. All that commotion yesterday was stressfull for both of us. I figured I just give him time to rest today since we both were up a lot last night. I woke up every time Hamy moved and I guess he woke up from my turning and tossing as well. We were both a bit restless. Could it be possible that Hamy feels bad about what happened yesterday as well? I know it sounds daft but I really think he can feel my energy. When I'm hyper he's hyper... he's really smart.... I'm sure he can pick up on my mood. So far when I was upset he was extra cuddley or when I'm stressed he's all over the place as well... when I'm horsing around he comes up with the wildest shananigans...
Hamy is sound asleep now. He didn't do it yesterday but today he closed his "curtain" to his front entrance of his house again... he always does that when he calls it a night

[CritterMom]

You bet they can sense your moods - that and a lot of other things we humans are incapable of. The ability for speech pretty much wiped out any abilities that way that most of us have. In fact, our voices excite them in good ways and bad. When my squirrel becomes upset at something - a hawk in the sky or one of the local foxes in the backyard and starts alarm calling, I go over and I don't tell him he will be okay and he's safe verbally. I "think" it at him. And he calms WAY faster than if I did that verbally. It isn't that they can read minds; we have all sorts of chemical and behavioral cues they pick up on, and since you are thinking what you are saying, they get it.

That is why I always suggest that people dealing with hormonal squirrels wear all the gear they need to protect themselves or they will be frightened when dealing with their squirrel because their bites are brutal. And the squirrel will sense the fear from you and become fearful themselves - and you may end up actually causing them to bite you. If you know you are safe you can walk in and deal with them without that fear, things will go a lot better for you. You can't fake it, either. Meryl Streep isn't a good enough actress to pull that off!

[Icemouse]

You bet they can sense your moods - that and a lot of other things we humans are incapable of. The ability for speech pretty much wiped out any abilities that way that most of us have. In fact, our voices excite them in good ways and bad. When my squirrel becomes upset at something - a hawk in the sky or one of the local foxes in the backyard and starts alarm calling, I go over and I don't tell him he will be okay and he's safe verbally. I "think" it at him. And he calms WAY faster than if I did that verbally. It isn't that they can read minds; we have all sorts of chemical and behavioral cues they pick up on, and since you are thinking what you are saying, they get it.

That is why I always suggest that people dealing with hormonal squirrels wear all the gear they need to protect themselves or they will be frightened when dealing with their squirrel because their bites are brutal. And the squirrel will sense the fear from you and become fearful themselves - and you may end up actually causing them to bite you. If you know you are safe you can walk in and deal with them without that fear, things will go a lot better for you. You can't fake it, either. Meryl Streep isn't a good enough actress to pull that off!

I used to breed and train dogs.... dogs communicate with their whole body. We humans are not aware of our gestures and mimic most of the time. But the dogs can read us like a book. Dogs also have calming signals. Like blinking the eyes to the dog approaching.... it means "I'm peaceful, just want to pass" next time you see two dogs on a lead passing each other watch their body language.
There's a good book from Turid Rugaas about calming signals. "On talking terms with dogs" its called. The lady is a Norwegian dog trainer who learned from her pack of wolves.
I can only highly recommend that book. It's really interesting and explains certain behaviour. To be honest I use calming signals with Hamy. I do that automatically.... Well, I grew up in the high mountains. We look after our wildlife, especially in the harsh winter months. My granddad taught me how to "read" wild animals. That helped me a great deal with Hamy so far. All creatures use their body to signal what's going on. We just have to take the time to learn their language.
I know Hamy can read my face and body language.
I know what you mean with fearing the bites.... I will defo wear gloves today but I won't wear a helmet. Hamy needs to be able to read my face... plus the helmut would limit my peripheral vision... I need to be able to see Hamys actions.
Hamy is up... having breakfast.... hopefully we can enjoy the free time together later on.

[CritterMom]

I used to breed and train dogs.... dogs communicate with their whole body. We humans are not aware of our gestures and mimic most of the time. But the dogs can read us like a book. Dogs also have calming signals. Like blinking the eyes to the dog approaching.... it means "I'm peaceful, just want to pass" next time you see two dogs on a lead passing each other watch their body language.
There's a good book from Turid Rugaas about calming signals. "On talking terms with dogs" its called. The lady is a Norwegian dog trainer who learned from her pack of wolves.
I can only highly recommend that book. It's really interesting and explains certain behaviour. To be honest I use calming signals with Hamy. I do that automatically.... Well, I grew up in the high mountains. We look after our wildlife, especially in the harsh winter months. My granddad taught me how to "read" wild animals. That helped me a great deal with Hamy so far. All creatures use their body to signal what's going on. We just have to take the time to learn their language.
I know Hamy can read my face and body language.
I know what you mean with fearing the bites.... I will defo wear gloves today but I won't wear a helmet. Hamy needs to be able to read my face... plus the helmut would limit my peripheral vision... I need to be able to see Hamys actions.
Hamy is up... having breakfast.... hopefully we can enjoy the free time together later on.

Yes, but don't forget you are dealing with prey animals who are very different from predators. A predators "prime directive" is to kill enough prey animals to sustain it and it's offspring. A prey animal's is to avoid running into the predator's prime directive.

Many, many years ago I saw a segment of 60 Minutes (pretty sure it was 60 Minutes) about Monty Roberts, the "original "horse whisperer" - a title that has been co-opted by dozens of people looking to jump on the bandwagon. He was a mostly neglected kid who's parents were migrant ranch hands, who spent most of his time on the prairies observing the mustangs and realized as a teen that he was seeing a language, conducted mostly with body positioning to the other horses, not just random wandering. And that the mustangs were able to understand his awkward attempts to mimic what they were doing and to respond to him right back. They taught him to speak "horse." Decades later when I got my own horse (RIP, Iman) I immediately started using Monty's methods and it was like magic. And when I started loving with a squirrel, I adapted them considerably but they still work, because as prey animals, horses and sqirrels aren't all that different.

[Icemouse]

Crank out the champagne!!!!!!!!! I don't know how to thank you all for being so kind and so very helpful in our darkest hours.... all your great advice helped us big time. You all jumped to our rescue. Hamy sends his biggest thank you as well.
We had the most beautiful time with each other this afternoon.
I have to admit I bought gloves this morning. Like CritterMom said I could not hide my fright of another attack. So I thought I play it safe. As we got up this morning I just did what we always do in the mornings. I put my hand on Hamys cage and he came to sniff my hand. We were both cautious... he felt my insecurity and I felt his.... we both didn't know what to expect from each other... I just stuck to the routine we always had. So did Hamy...
As my hubby and I went to town in the morning to get the gloves, I kept playing every scenario which could happen through in my mind. I was one second filled with hope and the next second worried out of my mind that our peaceful life would never be the same again... my poor hubby...
As it was time for Hamys free time I prepared the food for Hamy first. I lowered his fruit ration and left off corn, sugar snaps and cherries.
I have to admit I had to take a deep breath to calm myself down.
I only put one glove on but wore a very old hoody with really long sleeves.... Hamy came to the door... much slower than usually... I did put my ungloved hand on the outside of the cage. Hamy sniffed it but didn't threaten or bite me.... as the door was open Hamy jumped on my hand but jumped on the floor. Guys I could swear he looked me straight in my eyes.... as I reached out and called him he jumped on my hand. That's when I took the only glove off....We both didn't know what to do... he was as unsure about the situation as I was. So I just cleaned the mess out of his cage and he hopped about on me... we went to the kitchen and he ate some fruit. I just waited till he had his first 2 tiny bits of fruit but didn't touch him. He jumped on me as always and we brought the bowls in the bedroom together. I put the bowls in no problem. In the beginning both of us were a bit hesitant with each other... Hamy was as gentle as can be.... so was I.... after a few minutes we both fell back in our usual behaviour with each other. We had playfights.. we snuggled, I got cleaned and a pedicure.... we even took the lucky bamboo apart.... partners in crime ;-)
Hamy was even nice to my hubby. Hamy only jumped up on his leg chattering his teeth once. But without my hubby saying or doing anything Hamy retrieved... he had a change of mind within seconds.... I think it did all of us good to stay apart from each other yesterday. We all had time to cool off and reflect on the horror... and all three of us came to the conclusion that we want to stay together.... love can conquer anything
I upload some images of this afternoon.... too bad you can't see how happy I was...
We can only thank you all from the deepest bottom of our hearts for all your kind help and support....

[CritterMom]

If you want to acclimate him to the gloves, just leave one in his cage. Old gloves are one of Zeke's favorite toys - he has developed a deep love for ultrasuede from playing with the old gloves. My mistake is the room we spend most of our time in together is my bedroom, which has ultrasuede thermal drapes, which all have dried squirrel spit on the bottoms because he will hold them and lick them for long periods of time. I think he likes the texture (???).

I wear them a lot for roughhousing - I am just allergic enough to him that the scratches drive me insane with the itching. Every time I get a new pair, I leave one of them in his cage for a day or two before I debut the new pair.

[TomahawkFlyers]

Yay! Yay! Yay!

Be alert, Icemouse. He is still going through stages (puberty) and until that is finished, be careful. CritterMom has great advice on the gloves - put them in his cage so he can get used to them so they are not something new to him in a bad situation. I am HAPPY for all three of you.

Jamie

[Charley Chuckles]

[Icemouse]

If you want to acclimate him to the gloves, just leave one in his cage. Old gloves are one of Zeke's favorite toys - he has developed a deep love for ultrasuede from playing with the old gloves. My mistake is the room we spend most of our time in together is my bedroom, which has ultrasuede thermal drapes, which all have dried squirrel spit on the bottoms because he will hold them and lick them for long periods of time. I think he likes the texture (???).

I wear them a lot for roughhousing - I am just allergic enough to him that the scratches drive me insane with the itching. Every time I get a new pair, I leave one of them in his cage for a day or two before I debut the new pair.

Yep I have heard of Monty Roberts many moons back. I also saw a documentary about the real horse whisperer. It left an everlasting impression on me. As I was a kid I always thought everybody who works with animals would learn their "language". How can anybody live with an animal when they don't understand what the wee soul is trying to tell them? Afterall all animals living with humans try to understand what the human does.... communication is the key to everything... just look at dogs and their owners. People don't tell their dog what they want from them. I'm sure you all have seen people shouting the dogs name multiple times. The call gets angrier every time but the dog doesn't react... well it would have helped if the human would have not just called the dogs name... the little word "come" or "here" would have told the dog what the human wanted.... a lot of trouble with dogs could be solved if people would only give clear instructions and reward good/wanted behaviour with a "well done"....
With the gloves... after I had bought them I shuffed them under my shirts, right on my skin. I figured if the gloves don't have my scent Hamy will defo go for them. I also had them laying on the bed while Hamy was out. We spend a lot of time in the bedroom as well since Hamys cage and highway is in the bedroom.
We played with the gloves and Hamy seemed to like them. I even put one glove on to stroke Hamy with it. He had no problem with that. The gloves are sued leather gloves. I'll have the gloves among the toys from now on.
This way I can slip in them anytime I'll need them.
I know that things were almost normal again yesterday but I'm not dumb enough to think it will stay like that. I know Hamy is in puberty and that fact alone makes every creature unpredictable...

[Icemouse]

Yay! Yay! Yay!

Be alert, Icemouse. He is still going through stages (puberty) and until that is finished, be careful. CritterMom has great advice on the gloves - put them in his cage so he can get used to them so they are not something new to him in a bad situation. I am HAPPY for all three of you.

Jamie

Hiya Jamie
Oh I will defo be careful and on alert.... puberty is not done in one day. Hamy will be moody and a bit unpredictable during that phase. All teenagers think they can rule the world.... I know the next few weeks won't be easy. His moods will change from one minute to the next....
I will watch Hamy closely. I will not prepare Hamys food in his presence anymore. I don't have his fruits standing about anymore. He only gets fruit when he's in his cage. I'm making sure he doesn't have any stashes anywhere.
I made a big mistake in underestimating my wee pal. That's not going to happen anymore.
Eventhough we had playfights yesterday and Hamy played "bat" on my hands a few times I have not a single scratch on my hands. So Hamy can adjust the strength he needs to hold on....
And I kept thinking about something which happened a while ago. I had held up a bit of thick rope with a pine cone dangling at the end of it. I held the rope up and had the cone swinging a bit. I thought Hamy would go for the pine cone since that was the only thing moving... no Hamy jumped on my hand where I held the rope. He played with my hand, layed on it and then went down the rope head first.... every cat or dog would have went for the pine cone to toss it about.... not Hamy... he went to the source of the rope....
I also realised that Hamy seems to change his sleep pattern. This morning he was up for about 2½ hours. He's now back in his house.... nap time. Good thing I'm home all day today. I'll watch that pattern.
There's no more corn, sugar snaps or cherries for Hamy either. He's never getting shelled nuts again. Plus I lowered his nut intake to one nut a day....
I followed CritterMoms advice to a t... and I sure will stick to everything CritterMom tells me to do. I think we both have a similar understanding about our approach to animals. Hence the real horse whisperer....
I will need to be on guard with Hamy for the next few weeks. I'll never underestimate him again. Now since I have seen him at his worst I know that I can only win if I stay alert.
I'm sure there was a sign Hamy gave before he attacked... I just didn't see it.... no wild animal attacks without at least a warning. It can be a small thing like stiffening the body, laying back the ears etc.... my problem was that I never ever expected Hamy to attack me... especially that severely.... but most important I don't know the signs squirrels give before they attack....
I have a photographic memory... I keep playing that little film over and over in my mind... and the only thing which was different was that as Hamy grabbed the bit of corn he stood much closer to me than he usually did. But I was standing where I always stood to cut his veg. He did grunt once and as I didn't move, the next split second he attacked....
I need to learn the warning signs squirrels use... but I will not be fooled in to thinking Hamy won't harm me if he thinks I'm a threat...
I have a lot to learn...

[Icemouse]

To CritterMom
I totally forgot to mention that I use propolis ointment for my scratched up hands. It stops the itch immediately and it heals up much quicker. I usually put it on once Hamy is back in his cage.
Hopefully you can get that ointment in the states.
I only buy the product from beehealth as the quality is great.

[Icemouse]

Hiya guys things turned to the absolute worst. Hamy is attacking me badly. Yesterday was the worst of all.
So far when I opened the cage he ran to a different room. I could close the door and clean his cage and put new food in. For the last 2 days I had the hardest time to get him back in his cage...but yesterday was by far the worst.... as soon I opened his cage he jumped on me and attacked with all the noises... screaming, barking... the full shebang.... I had to pull him off my chest to place him in his cage. Hamy only aims his attacks on my eyes now....
I had my hopes up as Hamy stopped plessuring himself. He even stopped marking... but.... we have a situation now where I can't open his cage anymore. As soon as I get near the cage he threatens me.... and he means business....
The last few times Hamy was out he spent most of his time at the windows looking out... he changed his whole behaviour..... it's like he's not the Hamy I knew anymore.... it's obvious that Hamy doesn't want anything to do with humans.
The temperatures at the moment are during day about 8 to 10 degrees celcius and at night 4 to 5 degrees celcius.... but the wind makes it feel much colder. The trees still don't have leaves.... so there's no way we can start release procedures.... there's no food only muddy fields.... what do I have to do for Hamy to be safe....
The cage Hamy is in is 1.70m high and 65x65cm. The floor is hardware cloth just like all 4 walls. I had the wire covered with wood so Hamy doesn't have to stand on wire but I took the board out to clean it yesterday. I couldn't fit it in anymore. So now everything Hamy drops falls straight in a tray under the hardware cloth floor...
Not ideal but at least I don't have to open the cage to clean the floor....
I'm really overwhelmed... I don't know where to start... what do I need to do.... how can I make all of this as easy as possible for Hamy....

[TomahawkFlyers]

Icemouse,

Like most teenage boys upon discovery of the URGE, Hamy has temporarily lost his mind. Food, water, and SEX (perhaps in reverse order?) are his sole driving forces. He KNOWS that relief for that URGE is beyond the window through which he gazes, and he's grumpy and frustrated that he hasn't figured a way to get out there and do the Friends With Benefits thing with as many girl squirrels as he can. No doubt he sees you as part of the obstacle to his Nirvana. My understanding is that this degree of intense lust occurs only once, at puberty. Future mating seasons will bring it back, but to a much reduced degree. Annoyance rather than menace.

We already know about to the threat to Hamy in your area of the world. It is hard for me to imagine releasing him to face those threats over behavior that he simply cannot control. Then again, I'm not the one facing his behavior! So a question/offer of an idea. What if:

You were to create a fair-sized box that would fit inside his enclosure and open and close on one side only. Drill lots of holes for air and light in that door. Put some of his sleep-related things in there, and while he is inside, reach through the bars with a rod of some kind to lower and latch the side door. You could then remove the box, clean and feed as needed before reversing the procedure, unlatching and opening the door after the box is in his enclosure and the enclosure is secured. This is a rough description of how dangerous, high-security prisoners are handled in the US. We'll get you a badge and give you the nickname Warden."

Try to keep in mind during this trying, trying time that this behavior should be temporary. Hang in there if you can!

Jamie

Edit: Pam says get a pair of swim goggles or those attractive polycarbonate safety glasses available at the hardware store. Also, confiscate any SexySquirrel magazines Hamy might have stashed under his mattress.

[Charley Chuckles]

Yes please get safety glasses!!! I never go near squirrels without some kind of glasses on.
And as crittermom said earlier suit up gloves the whole 9 yards👍

Praying this teenage stage passes soon🙏

[Icemouse]

Thanks for your help. I'm really troubled what's best for Hamy. At the moment he's probably the most unhappy squirrel on this planet....
Let's hope there are happier times ahead....

[Charley Chuckles]

Thanks for your help. I'm really troubled what's best for Hamy. At the moment he's probably the most unhappy squirrel on this planet....
Let's hope there are happier times ahead....

You just gotta keep on keeping on because it's too cold for release he's best with you for now even if he's not happy about it, it's all about his safety and survival.
Your doing a wonderful job by him👍 many have little kids turn this way before release time it's just part of the squirrel raising thing🙃it hurts our feelings 🥺it's not for the faint of heart 🤪😉

[Icemouse]

You just gotta keep on keeping on because it's too cold for release he's best with you for now even if he's not happy about it, it's all about his safety and survival.
Your doing a wonderful job by him👍 many have little kids turn this way before release time it's just part of the squirrel raising thing🙃it hurts our feelings 🥺it's not for the faint of heart 🤪😉

Since there's no way I can calm Hamy down we're stuck in this situation.... we will have to sit it out with each other. I guess it's tough times for both of us. Hamy "hates" me because he thinks I'm holding him back from his ladies.... well his blood is not exactly in his brain lately..... for now Hamy has to stay with me...we have to get through this no matter what Hamy decides later on..... I'm sure all of this is as frustrating for Hamy as it is for me... no matter what the future will bring... I will always love my wee dude ❤️

[Mel1959]

I’ve been following this thread and haven’t had much to say because you’ve been getting stellar information and help. I know exactly what you’re going through as I went through it myself.

Don’t knock yourself out or allow yourself to be attacked just so Hamy can have a clean cage….its not going to harm him to have soiled bedding, etc. Unfortunately you do have to feed him. Does your cage have a small 4” x 4” door or just one large one? If no small door is there a way to cut one in the hardware cloth that can be then closed and secured with a metal clip. I ask because this new little door can be an access point to add and remove food/water bowls without allowing Hamy the ability to escape and attack you. Many rehabbers stop physical interaction with their squirrels as they mature and get wild. It’s not an ideal situation for you and Hamy, but it’s also not the end of the world.

If this is not something feasible to do then the only alternative I can see is to put food and water in when Hamy is asleep. I know of others that have done it this way when their squirrels were too wild while they waited for release.

I know how hard it is to realize and accept that your precious furry baby no longer wants to be your baby. As others have said this might pass, but if it doesn’t, then all you can do is bide your time till the weather warms and the leaves are on the trees so Hamy has a fighting chance at a life in the trees. I know how frightening it is to think about him being out there in the big, bad, scary world, but it’s a life he was born to live. You just have to do all you can and hope and pray for the best for him.