Seeking Henry's Vitaminz Alternative

[FlyerServant]

With the increase of a 100g bag of Henry's Vitamins to $19.99 before shipping (long gone are the days of a 200g bag for $23), I'm wondering if anyone has an alternative! I know like 8 years ago or so I had come across some sort of homemade block recipe on here that involved crushing your own vitamins (or squeezing out capsule contents like Vitamin E and such), but I can't find it anymore and also want to know if there's a more current blend that is recommended!

So, anyone got VitaMinz alternative suggestions? Thanks!

[CritterMom]

The thing is, if you read the vitamin bags you will see that it isn't just a few of the vitamins and minerals everyone is familiar with, it is full of small amounts of a lot of things you would be hard pressed to find, but which are in there because they are needed. Henry's didn't come up with the items or the amounts - that is info gleaned from dozens of eye-glazing scientific papers. So you are at sort of a disadvantage because of the lack of ALL of the vitamins needed to properly recreate it.

If I was going to start looking, I would start here: https://www.bulksupplements.com/

Most of their stuff is in powder form.

[FlyerServant]

The thing is, if you read the vitamin bags you will see that it isn't just a few of the vitamins and minerals everyone is familiar with, it is full of small amounts of a lot of things you would be hard pressed to find, but which are in there because they are needed. Henry's didn't come up with the items or the amounts - that is info gleaned from dozens of eye-glazing scientific papers. So you are at sort of a disadvantage because of the lack of ALL of the vitamins needed to properly recreate it.

If I was going to start looking, I would start here: https://www.bulksupplements.com/

Most of their stuff is in powder form.

I know it may be tough or near impossible D: I also know some folks have had chunks of vitamin tablets in their bags too that just didn't get fully ground up before packaging which gives me a glimmer of hope. I'm certainly not discounting the amount of research and care that has gone into creating the blend in Henry's vitamins, nor am I opposed to continuing to purchase them if there is no viable alternative/method!

Would grinding up either Mazuri or Teklad blocks to use in place of the vitamins be viable since they are supposed to be nutritionally complete? (lol granted, I'm not sure my blender would be able to adequately grind up those rock-hard blocks...) I know they are used when making Boo Balls (though usually I just gather the crumbs at the bottom of the bag for that), so wondering if it could apply to regular ol blocks too

[lovesquirrels1]

You could try this one

obviously it's not been used by as many people so less field tested, but they do respond to messages if you have a question. Just keep in mind they don't make anything and are doing this out of kindness to help others.

I would absolutely use the ground rodent block and not the flour.

Be careful and triple check vitamin amounts. A small mishap could turn into a big deal.

Make sure you have an accurate scale that can measure tenths of a gram. Food scales are often only gram based, a jewelery scale is likely what you need.

It's not going to be worth the risk if you only have 1-2 squirrels but if you have a half dozen or more the savings will likely be substantial. On top of that, squirrels should be willing to eat some rodent blocks. All mine seem to at least chew on them some. I try to feed high quality vegetables without many snacks or junk vegetables in there. I only give them nuts once a week. Zupreme bird food I give once a week as a snack, since it is a forumulated food it will have many vitamins and minerals, too. Monkey biscuits I give occasionally too.

[FlyerServant]

You could try this one

obviously it's not been used by as many people so less field tested, but they do respond to messages if you have a question. Just keep in mind they don't make anything and are doing this out of kindness to help others.

I would absolutely use the ground rodent block and not the flour.

Be careful and triple check vitamin amounts. A small mishap could turn into a big deal.

Make sure you have an accurate scale that can measure tenths of a gram. Food scales are often only gram based, a jewelery scale is likely what you need.

It's not going to be worth the risk if you only have 1-2 squirrels but if you have a half dozen or more the savings will likely be substantial. On top of that, squirrels should be willing to eat some rodent blocks. All mine seem to at least chew on them some. I try to feed high quality vegetables without many snacks or junk vegetables in there. I only give them nuts once a week. Zupreme bird food I give once a week as a snack, since it is a forumulated food it will have many vitamins and minerals, too. Monkey biscuits I give occasionally too.

Thanks! I do have a jewelry scale since I've had to use that to measure out medication amounts for tiny flyers! I've also read about subbing 3tbsp NutriCal in lieu of the Henry's vitamins from another trusted rehabber I know. My grays and flyers do eat their mazuri blocks thankfully in addition to a healthy variety of veggies/greens (which, yanno, some end up as decoration on the floor... they are squirrels, after all lol)

[Snicker Bar]

Just browsing and saw your question, about the blocks being nutritionally complete…

I’ve had to rely heavily on “boo balls” because I did not start my kids out right. Now, they’re spoiled, picky eaters! And, I have a post surgical, nearly toothless neuro squirrel who has survived on nothing but boo balls (using recipe here) for years. I use the double baby food /to formula, block and nuts version, so they are softer. I also bake them one hour at 220. No raw veggies or fruit; she tosses them. Knows she might choke.

So I too wondered why (in some recipes I’ve seen around) why they call for the extra vitamins ; whether Henry’s or Nutrical. Because , it’s true; they are formulated to be 100% nutritionally complete for lab rats . Formulated for NR, tree squirrels?? To live as long and healthy as possible? No. But until Henry’s, that’s all there was . And my kids have tried all versions and they won’t eat them daily as needed to for them work with the Pyramid.

I once spoke with a long time member here, that had a grey live to be (??17? 18??) that ONLY ate rodent block as a main diet (Mazuri I think). Veggies and fruit were an OCCASIONAL “treat”. I and just thought , WOW. If only!!!

Because we waste SO MUCH good food. Beautiful salads… Probably enough to feed a human family of three (US!!) a week! I’ve tried , and TRIED, to create the picture perfectly menus. “This to balance that”; because of this ratio , that ratio. This is too high, this one is too low (oxalate). It’s all good science… and mathematically correct I’m sure! (I hope lol!).

But?? Do my kids care ?? That unless they eat this thing, to balance off that thing, and in its entirety….their blood levels of this or that are going to be off kilter?? Heck no !

That’s the problem. Like me . As a kid. Did I eat all my veggies , that mom fixed?? Heck no! They were on the carpet under the table. Even the poodle wouldn’t help save me

So?? I go through the phases of guilt (religiously spend $$ and prepare the stuff anyways to appease my worry for them); or, go the just heck with it approach, and give just HT block and boo balls.

Hopefully others will chime in. But until better things come (which could soon), I would say in my own humble opinion, the vitamins are NOT needed if your boo ball base has HT, or Mazuri as the base. And?? The Nutrical would make my already fat girl(s) into Oompa Loompas

Just my 2 cents for what it’s worth
Still learning .

[CritterMom]

Just browsing and saw your question, about the blocks being nutritionally complete…

I’ve had to rely heavily on “boo balls” because I did not start my kids out right. Now, they’re spoiled, picky eaters! And, I have a post surgical, nearly toothless neuro squirrel who has survived on nothing but boo balls (using recipe here) for years. I use the double baby food /to formula, block and nuts version, so they are softer. I also bake them one hour at 220. No raw veggies or fruit; she tosses them. Knows she might choke.

So I too wondered why (in some recipes I’ve seen around) why they call for the extra vitamins ; whether Henry’s or Nutrical. Because , it’s true; they are formulated to be 100% nutritionally complete for lab rats . Formulated for NR, tree squirrels?? To live as long and healthy as possible? No. But until Henry’s, that’s all there was . And my kids have tried all versions and they won’t eat them daily as needed to for them work with the Pyramid.

I once spoke with a long time member here, that had a grey live to be (??17? 18??) that ONLY ate rodent block as a main diet (Mazuri I think). Veggies and fruit were an OCCASIONAL “treat”. I and just thought , WOW. If only!!!

Because we waste SO MUCH good food. Beautiful salads… Probably enough to feed a human family of three (US!!) a week! I’ve tried , and TRIED, to create the picture perfectly menus. “This to balance that”; because of this ratio , that ratio. This is too high, this one is too low (oxalate). It’s all good science… and mathematically correct I’m sure! (I hope lol!).

But?? Do my kids care ?? That unless they eat this thing, to balance off that thing, and in its entirety….their blood levels of this or that are going to be off kilter?? Heck no !

That’s the problem. Like me . As a kid. Did I eat all my veggies , that mom fixed?? Heck no! They were on the carpet under the table. Even the poodle wouldn’t help save me

So?? I go through the phases of guilt (religiously spend $$ and prepare the stuff anyways to appease my worry for them); or, go the just heck with it approach, and give just HT block and boo balls.

Hopefully others will chime in. But until better things come (which could soon), I would say in my own humble opinion, the vitamins are NOT needed if your boo ball base has HT, or Mazuri as the base. And?? The Nutrical would make my already fat girl(s) into Oompa Loompas

Just my 2 cents for what it’s worth
Still learning .

Because the Teklad are nutritionally complete only if they are fed as the only thing in the diet, like the person you mentioned. As soon as you begin adding things, you are diluting that nutritional makeup because you are adding things that have other ingredients in them to the mix, diluting the vitamins and minerals.

You are doing the same thing with the boo balls unless you supplement them -the Teklad is fine but then you begin adding ground nuts and formula and baby food which dilute and change the nutritional numbers. And I am betting nobody ever broke everything down to determine exactly how much supplementation is needed. Are they correct? Oversupplemented? Undersupplemented? I don't know. THAT is the thing that concerns me about using boo balls as the ONLY food source.

Henry's used to publish a homemade version of their blocks but they did not use other blocks as a base. They used the same thing the Henry's blocks are made from - things like whey protein isolate' small amounts of flour, etc.

[Snicker Bar]

I just had that second nagging question come (and go ) from my brain….
Have THOSE math equations been done? (With or without supplementations plus the other ingredients ) By the authors of the recipes?? Because if I had to try and do those dilution factors and algebraic whatever’s …. My brain would hurt and then just shut down. If they’ve done the math, that’s a huge accomplishment and deserves recognition

So, as far as this crew goes, we are kind of just stuck here in a rotating boo ball/pyramid/Henry’s /HT combo of sorts. We just do the best can , and hope they will KNOW what to eat and how much, by their own instincts. I provide it, and they probably are doing better than I think. Idk.
My oldest right now is 6 1/2 (my neuro)

[Mel1959]

For what it’s worth….i make boo balls with HT base and I add a heaping scoop of FV 20/50 and FV Ultraboost powder to the mix. Yes, the nutrients are less concentrated than Henry’s vitamins, but they’re there nonetheless. You could also add some extra calcium powder. I’ve found NOW brand in a relatively large bottle at health food stores or online.

[JLM27]

Could we buy the formula from Henry's and then find someone to make it? Or, did Henry's buy it from a wholesaler and then distribute it retail, in which case couldn't we ask for the name of the wholesaler so we could find other distributors?

[lovesquirrels1]

I believe they publish all the information to make it yourself but it is probably patended so I don't think someone could commercially make an identical clone while a patent is active.

[JLM27]

I'm probably the last to know but for those of you who have facebook you might want to look at this.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...08046649534931

[Mel1959]

I'm probably the last to know but for those of you who have facebook you might want to look at this.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...08046649534931

I looked at it and all I saw was a picture of some blocks. I don’t understand your post??

[JLM27]

Sorry. I thought the URL included the text. Here is the text.


There was a post about a change in the look of Henry's blocks. I spoke to Henry's and the explanation is that their vitamin source has changed. The new source has less fillers and it appears that the fillers are what gave the look of a "purple" color. Nothing to worry about, if anything, it is less unneeded ingredients. Mine all are them with their usual gusto!
Photo credit goes to Clare Johnston Barnett. Thank-you!

[lovesquirrels1]

There used to be a guy doing necropsy on flying squirrels. Dr. Coolidge maybe? However, those findings are essentially worthless without also knowing the diet the squirrels were being given.

[lovesquirrels1]

I wonder if there are less fillers if the old HHB recipes are including too many vitamins now? Less fillers sounds more potent?

[TomahawkFlyers]

Whatever is in those vitamin packs, the compound is a wonder substance. Our flyers are the picture of health and vitality. They get homemade block made with Henry's protein and vitamins. They will go to that (honest to God) before the occasional nut and fruit and vegetables. Personally, I'd be sad with a monotonous diet. The flyers can't seem to get enough. Clean quarters at night, block dust EVERYWHERE in the morning. Sometimes, even the dust is gone - especially where the wilds come to eat.

Jamie

[lovesquirrels1]

I tried contacting Henrys a couple of times to verify what they meant by "less fillers" and whether or not the vitamin to block ratio should remain the same but I've not been able to get an answer from them. Sadly, I have a package of their vitamins but I don't want to use it until I can confirm if it's the same ratio or not.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I tried contacting Henrys a couple of times to verify what they meant by "less fillers" and whether or not the vitamin to block ratio should remain the same but I've not been able to get an answer from them. Sadly, I have a package of their vitamins but I don't want to use it until I can confirm if it's the same ratio or not.

Hi Lovesquirrels:
Would you please post a photo of both sides of this package of vitamins about which you have concerns so that we can see the what the labeling says and review the specifics of the ingredients. Also, where are you seeing the statement "less fillers?" Please post a photo of this also. Thanks!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[SammysMom]

I spoke to Henry's about the vitamins, and the ratio of vitamins is still the same.