My little squeaky needs help

[Bean]

Hello Bean:
I called Dr. E's office this morning (they were closed for the Holiday yesterday) and gave them your correct number. I was told that if someone who is not a regular client sends materials to Dr. E, once she has these materials, her schedule is her own and the office staf does not become aware of any actions Dr. E may have taken regarding these "outside" requests. They had no idea as whether or not Dr. E may have tried to call you with the wrong number that accompanied your original email. I also realized this but the office reinforced this knowledge that Dr. E gets many communications and sometimes it may take several weeks to get back to someone. I don't know what else to do there but hopefully Dr. E will call you.

How is Squeaky doing?

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Dr emerson finally saw my Facebook message, she is messaging me on there now and asked for his x rays and teeth pictures!

[island rehabber]

Dr emerson finally saw my Facebook message, she is messaging me on there now and asked for his x rays and teeth pictures!

[Bean]

Hello Bean:
I called Dr. E's office this morning (they were closed for the Holiday yesterday) and gave them your correct number. I was told that if someone who is not a regular client sends materials to Dr. E, once she has these materials, her schedule is her own and the office staf does not become aware of any actions Dr. E may have taken regarding these "outside" requests. They had no idea as whether or not Dr. E may have tried to call you with the wrong number that accompanied your original email. I also realized this but the office reinforced this knowledge that Dr. E gets many communications and sometimes it may take several weeks to get back to someone. I don't know what else to do there but hopefully Dr. E will call you.

How is Squeaky doing?

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

Dr Emerson said squeaky does have a upper odontoma....not one other person saw this...? My vet, dr Peters, everyone else I talked to, they all seem the small bottom one but none on top ..she's saying he needs it removed. Now I am terrified once again...my baby is so tiny, she is willing to do what she can to help him learn the surgery but I wish she would just come here...my stress just skyrocketed. I need him to be ok he looks so much better and hasn't even been sneezing or anything really anymore. He's doing none of the symptoms. I wish I knew how to know what it looked like from an x ray

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Dr Emerson said squeaky does have a upper odontoma....not one other person saw this...? My vet, dr Peters, everyone else I talked to, they all seem the small bottom one but none on top ..she's saying he needs it removed. Now I am terrified once again...my baby is so tiny, she is willing to do what she can to help him learn the surgery but I wish she would just come here...my stress just skyrocketed. I need him to be ok he looks so much better and hasn't even been sneezing or anything really anymore. He's doing none of the symptoms. I wish I knew how to know what it looked like from an x ray

Hi Bean:
Please ask Dr. E to simply circle the area of her concern on a copy of the film by which she made this diagnosis. That should help with your understanding of her diagnosis. Dr. E has seen hundreds if not thousands of similar x-ray films and she has opportunity as her years of experience have gone on to correlated what she has notice on the x-ray films with what she has found during surgery. This enables her to make some diagnoses that others would not make because some of the findings that Dr. E notices in some of the films she reviews are probably quite subtle. Another thing you could ask her is whether or not this subtle odontoma is the likely cause of Squeaky's recent symptoms and what actually was going on such as an infection. By the way, Dr. E has been known to travel to do these surgeries but it must be quite expensive. She went to Viet Nam to perform an odontoma surgery on a Squirrel who was the subject of a thread on TSB!
Please keep us updated on little Squeaky and also on how you are doing!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Tashahaven]

I am grateful you were able to get in touch with Dr E and she was able to make a diagnosis. I have read so many amazing stories about her and her wonderful expertise. Now hopefully we can figure out the timeframe before a surgery is necessary and help you make a plan to get squeaky the help he needs. The good thing, is at least now you KNOW what has been going on, and can go forward from here

Thanks Dr E!

[Bean]

I am grateful you were able to get in touch with Dr E and she was able to make a diagnosis. I have read so many amazing stories about her and her wonderful expertise. Now hopefully we can figure out the timeframe before a surgery is necessary and help you make a plan to get squeaky the help he needs. The good thing, is at least now you KNOW what has been going on, and can go forward from here

Thanks Dr E!

I just don't understand how my vet and dr Peters said there was none and only a small one on the bottom teeth..I posted here and talked to re habbers too and all of them agreed to no odontoma on the top. She said it looks pretty infected too, I don't know how she seen that from just the x rays. I showed her pics of his actual teeth, maybe that is where she gets that from cuz he got food stuck between them. But he seems like he is doing good now. Almost no sneezing, no milky fluid from the eyes or mouth... I don't know how he could be so infected. He did have the gasping breathing before, but the antibiotics helped and now it's gone. If he had the odontoma, wouldn't it get worse again since he's off antibiotics? I'm so scared to take him in for this. My dr has to figure this out just by dr Everson talking him through and showing him videos, I am going to believe he will do great and send positive vibes towards him. But I'm still so worried. Even about the after care..he is such a tiny little guy I wonder when they will decide to have him in and what else they figure. My vet probly doesn't have the stuff he needs to do it since him and like no one else in Canada has done the surgery basically... He apparently only has 1 top odontoma, so would need to remove 1 tooth, wouldn't the other need removed after he's healed cuz he's only have 1 tooth?
I asked her if she would travel cuz she has done it before but she can't anytime soon because of her kids and any time she has off, she needs to take for her kids and it costs a lot of money to travel her equipment and shel need a room donated to do the surgery in which my vet would have allowed her. I wish I coulda had her do it herself. But I hope she is able to teach him well

[Bean]

Hi Bean:
Please ask Dr. E to simply circle the area of her concern on a copy of the film by which she made this diagnosis. That should help with your understanding of her diagnosis. Dr. E has seen hundreds if not thousands of similar x-ray films and she has opportunity as her years of experience have gone on to correlated what she has notice on the x-ray films with what she has found during surgery. This enables her to make some diagnoses that others would not make because some of the findings that Dr. E notices in some of the films she reviews are probably quite subtle. Another thing you could ask her is whether or not this subtle odontoma is the likely cause of Squeaky's recent symptoms and what actually was going on such as an infection. By the way, Dr. E has been known to travel to do these surgeries but it must be quite expensive. She went to Viet Nam to perform an odontoma surgery on a Squirrel who was the subject of a thread on TSB!
Please keep us updated on little Squeaky and also on how you are doing!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

I did ask if this could have caused all of the issues he has but she didn't reply on that question. And I did ask if she would travel as well and she said she can't because of her kids. Not anytime soon, and it's very pricey cuz she has to take all her equipment too. She said she travelled to Vietnam to teach and also to do the odontoma surgery while she was there. I really hope she is able to talk my vet into doing an amazing job. I'm so worried

[Chirps]

Hi! I've been following this thread somewhat. I know you are scared, there is so much to worry about! But let's try to look for some positives. How much experience does your vet have with squirrels? The more experience with anesthetization and surgery the better, obviously, but even Dr. E had to start somewhere. With guidance, your vet can do the job! Maybe you can hold off long enough for your vet to have dealt with other cases (not odontoma necessarily, but just anything that requires anesthesia) to hone his skills. If that sounds like I'm suggesting you let other patients be his practice subjects, well maybe it does, but if they were going to need certain procedures anyway, and your vet will be the one doing them, it would give him more practice until it becomes absolutely necessary to do the surgery on Squeaky.

You mention his symptoms having lessened, so maybe you can take it as a bit of a reprieve to give your vet time to bone up on what he'll need to know to best help Squeaky. Hopefully others who've been through this will weigh in with their experience of how long they were able to hold out before taking the plunge. Also it will give you some time to get the money together to pay for it, although I assume there'd be some kind of plan.

Lots to think about . . .

[Bean]

Hi! I've been following this thread somewhat. I know you are scared, there is so much to worry about! But let's try to look for some positives. How much experience does your vet have with squirrels? The more experience with anesthetization and surgery the better, obviously, but even Dr. E had to start somewhere. With guidance, your vet can do the job! Maybe you can hold off long enough for your vet to have dealt with other cases (not odontoma necessarily, but just anything that requires anesthesia) to hone his skills. If that sounds like I'm suggesting you let other patients be his practice subjects, well maybe it does, but if they were going to need certain procedures anyway, and your vet will be the one doing them, it would give him more practice until it becomes absolutely necessary to do the surgery on Squeaky.

You mention his symptoms having lessened, so maybe you can take it as a bit of a reprieve to give your vet time to bone up on what he'll need to know to best help Squeaky. Hopefully others who've been through this will weigh in with their experience of how long they were able to hold out before taking the plunge. Also it will give you some time to get the money together to pay for it, although I assume there'd be some kind of plan.

Lots to think about . . .

My vet does work with exotics and has done surgeries and anesthesia a lot, he's had to put my squeaky under anesthesia for teeth trimmings and x rays a couple times now, and every visit he will need, hel need put out because he is very skittish, and not calm at all, specially with other people. Just the odontoma he has never done and he has no experience with squirrels.his symptoms did lessen, but dr e said that If I don't get it fixed soon, that I will have a bigger issue later on. But it just seems he gotten better. And what worries me most is that I take him in, and something bad happens when he was doin better. I'd feel like I made him worse. I'm trying so hard to think positive..and I have been more than I regularly do. I am super glad that de Emerson is the one to be helping him and she was willing to do it without a cost, least that I know of. I will do anything I can and pay whatever I have to to pay for him to get better, I'm not sure if they do payment plans but even if not, i will spend every penny of my savings on him...my vet cares about animals and believes all exotics and wildlife deserve equal treatment and care as pets which not many other vets here do, he's the only one who would help me with squeaky, and I really appreciate and respect that about him. I am sure with dr emersons help, he will do great. I'm gonna try to keep positive.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I just don't understand how my vet and dr Peters said there was none and only a small one on the bottom teeth..I posted here and talked to re habbers too and all of them agreed to no odontoma on the top. She said it looks pretty infected too, I don't know how she seen that from just the x rays. I showed her pics of his actual teeth, maybe that is where she gets that from cuz he got food stuck between them. But he seems like he is doing good now. Almost no sneezing, no milky fluid from the eyes or mouth... I don't know how he could be so infected. He did have the gasping breathing before, but the antibiotics helped and now it's gone. If he had the odontoma, wouldn't it get worse again since he's off antibiotics? I'm so scared to take him in for this. My dr has to figure this out just by dr Everson talking him through and showing him videos, I am going to believe he will do great and send positive vibes towards him. But I'm still so worried. Even about the after care..he is such a tiny little guy I wonder when they will decide to have him in and what else they figure. My vet probly doesn't have the stuff he needs to do it since him and like no one else in Canada has done the surgery basically... He apparently only has 1 top odontoma, so would need to remove 1 tooth, wouldn't the other need removed after he's healed cuz he's only have 1 tooth?
I asked her if she would travel cuz she has done it before but she can't anytime soon because of her kids and any time she has off, she needs to take for her kids and it costs a lot of money to travel her equipment and shel need a room donated to do the surgery in which my vet would have allowed her. I wish I coulda had her do it herself. But I hope she is able to teach him well

Hi Bean:
I can easily understand your concerns! Dr. E has a great reputation and considerable experience but I know that you are not fully convinced and you have definitive reasons for feeling this way! Second (or even third opinions) are almost always a sound practice for major surgery that is not absolutely emergent and in a real sense, your had already obtained prior opinions from your Vet and your Rehabber and they were in agreement. Now you have Dr. E's diagnosis and recommendations and you naturally have concerns as the diagnoses and recommendations are not consistent between your consultants! Also, especially in light of recommendations for major but not truly emergent surgery being recommended and you have expressed very valid specific questions that have actually asked but not received an answer; along with your other questions of a general nature that are obviously prompted by the inconsistencies in interpretation of what is actually going on with Squeaky your consultants. I do know that Dr. E is certainly a preeminent Veterinary Dental Professional but your questions still should be resolved and you should feel comfortable with your decisions! Questioning and also seeking resolution of major discrepancies in opinions is a good thing and I feel that you should not be pressured in any way into prematurely consenting to an major operation about which you still have questions, concerns, and even doubts!

I have a couple of suggestions and comments for you but please let me tell you again that I am not a Vet and I am not trying to get between you and any of your consultants including your own Vet or Dr. E! I just share your concerns and feel there is time to get these resolved before committing to a major surgical procedure on little Squeaky! 1) I would specifically voice your questions again to Dr. E about where this infection she commented on is located and how, by studying your photos, she arrived at this conclusion; 2) I would ask the same about the odontoma and I would ask that this be circled on the the x-ray so you can actually see the findings she has utilized to render her diagnosis of an odontoma. 3) you can consider sending the x-ray films to a Veterinary Radiologist for an opinion. 4) a CT Scan is more expensive than plain film x-rays but can be done rather quickly and is likely to show considerable more detail and may help to determine what is going on and help confirm or possibly refute Dr. E's opinion with which you have understandable reservations! 5) if there is an ongoing infection (I've always suspected this was the primary issue and an odontoma was a possible factor in this infection and development of Squeaky's problems), this may be a good time to get an opinion/recommendation from Dr. E as whether an antibiotic might be beneficial right now while your think a bit more about the surgery and if so, what antibiotic would be best. Your Vet may then be willing to write the prescription for whatever Dr. E might recommend (I remember that he was reluctant to give prescribe Clavamox and I do understand his reservations as they were "coming from the internet").

I wish Squeaky and you too, the very best! Please keep posting updates, questions, and comments.

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Bean]

Well, I sent squeaky's x rays in for a radiologist diagnosis and this is what they came up with....sounds like squeaky has a lot of issues. But can't do surgery due to his problems...I hope he will be ok

Anyone know if there are ways of helping him with this?

[Mel1959]

Have you sent the X-rays to Dr. Emerson? I would be interested in her opinion.

Is the radiologist that reviewed it familiar with squirrels?

[Bean]

Have you sent the X-rays to Dr. Emerson? I would be interested in her opinion.

Is the radiologist that reviewed it familiar with squirrels?

I did send to her...this is what she said. This all upsets me so much. I want him to be ok. I'm not sure if the radiologist knows much about squirrels. But I figured that's what they do, they diagnose based on what they can see on x rays...I don't know..this cost me over 300 to have them looked at.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Well, I sent squeaky's x rays in for a radiologist diagnosis and this is what they came up with....sounds like squeaky has a lot of issues. But can't do surgery due to his problems...I hope he will be ok

Anyone know if there are ways of helping him with this?

Hi Bean:
I'm sorry you having to go through all of this! I just want to make some comments and reiterate some comments I made at the time you started Squeaky's thread. Although a Veterinary Radiologist knows a lot about x-ray studies, it is doubtful that they are familiar with the appearance of the chest in all animals. I would assume that with few exceptions such as a radiologist associated with a zoo or rehab facility, most of the films that the average veterinary radiologist sees are from cats and dogs. I'm not sure how much experience this particular radiologist had with interpreting Squirrel chest radiographs or even if this radiologist had any experience with Squirrels radiology! As I mentioned, I am not a radiologist and I am certainly not trying to portray myself ans having more knowledge or experience than the radiologist who read Squeaky's films BUT I simply wanted to point out some concerns I have along with part of my ortiginal post in your thread that I pasted below:

Disclaimer: I am not a Vet nor am I a radiologist (a specialist in interpreting x-ray studies). I will give my opinion however but it must recognized that this is only my opinion! Moving on; while looking at the Discharge Summary from 5/5/2023 that has Chest x-ray (CXR) films pasted to it; there is mention of "the lungs having cleared themselves up" but the "major abnormality in the chest is still there." I am not certain as to what the Vet has referring to as this "major abnormality" but it appears from it says beyond that on the Discharge Summary that they believe it may be the heart. This to me implies that the Vet is referring to the white centrally located, broad density with a blunt L-shape pointed leftward. This is the Heart "shadow" and the upper part of that is what is called the mediastinum which contains some major blood vessels and other "stuff" (to use a medical term!). This Heart "shadow" does appear at first glance to be quite wide in its relation to the lateral width (side to side dimension) of the chest but it is essential to recognize that unlike primates such as monkeys and humans where the broadest dimension of the chest is indeed the lateral dimension; Squirrels and most quadrupeds (those that walking on four legs) have there broadest chest dimension in Ventrodorsal line (from bottom to top) and not from side to side! The heart shadow appears to me to be relatively unremarkable and normal (but again, I am not a radiologist or Vet.

Further, it can make a significant difference in the apparent width of the heart and the mediastinum relative to the distance between the left and right sides of the chest wall if the film was taken during full exhalation, full inhalation or somewhere in between. When the film is taken with the Squirrel in full inspiration as is preferable, the heart and mediastinum will appear smaller than if the film was taken in exhalation. Also, it makes at least a theoretical difference if the beam is traveling Ventrodorsally (bottom to top) or Dorsoventrally (top to bottom). When the film is taken with the Squirrel on his back, there is a slight increased in distance from the heart to the film than there would be if the Squirrel was placed with his belly closest to the film and in that increased distance, the heart and mediastinum can appear enlarged secondary to normal magnification effect of the x-ray beam related to distance.

I know it would be an added expense but the radiologist mentioned a CT of the head and chest could be beneficial in ruling in or ruling out what the radiologist has suggested is going on. An ultrasound is far less expensive than a CT and it should be effective in defining whether or not there is a chest mass. The CT would be ideal for the head. The radiologist sure did note a lot going on from a dental standpoint! A CT would be ideal to verify or clarify this!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Bean]

Hi Bean:
I'm sorry you having to go through all of this! I just want to make some comments and reiterate some comments I made at the time you started Squeaky's thread. Although a Veterinary Radiologist knows a lot about x-ray studies, it is doubtful that they are familiar with the appearance of the chest in all animals. I would assume that with few exceptions such as a radiologist associated with a zoo or rehab facility, most of the films that the average veterinary radiologist sees are from cats and dogs. I'm not sure how much experience this particular radiologist had with interpreting Squirrel chest radiographs or even if this radiologist had any experience with Squirrels radiology! As I mentioned, I am not a radiologist and I am certainly not trying to portray myself ans having more knowledge or experience than the radiologist who read Squeaky's films BUT I simply wanted to point out some concerns I have along with part of my ortiginal post in your thread that I pasted below:



Further, it can make a significant difference in the apparent width of the heart and the mediastinum relative to the distance between the left and right sides of the chest wall if the film was taken during full exhalation, full inhalation or somewhere in between. When the film is taken with the Squirrel in full inspiration as is preferable, the heart and mediastinum will appear smaller than if the film was taken in exhalation. Also, it makes at least a theoretical difference if the beam is traveling Ventrodorsally (bottom to top) or Dorsoventrally (top to bottom). When the film is taken with the Squirrel on his back, there is a slight increased in distance from the heart to the film than there would be if the Squirrel was placed with his belly closest to the film and in that increased distance, the heart and mediastinum can appear enlarged secondary to normal magnification effect of the x-ray beam related to distance.

I know it would be an added expense but the radiologist mentioned a CT of the head and chest could be beneficial in ruling in or ruling out what the radiologist has suggested is going on. An ultrasound is far less expensive than a CT and it should be effective in defining whether or not there is a chest mass. The CT would be ideal for the head. The radiologist sure did note a lot going on from a dental standpoint! A CT would be ideal to verify or clarify this!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

I am way too worried to get him in for a CT scan now, due to what both my vet and the radiologist has said, he told me to be blunt, he probly won't make it. I'm literally crying, and I'm having a hard time doing my work. I am going to get him ultrasounded which I was told will cost about $700. I am going broke, I don't think I will survive the winter time now, because everything I make, is going towards squeaky. I had 2 donations to his gofundme from Instagram totalling $40...not one donation on the squirrel board, I even made its own thread for it. Tons of visits, not one donation. I'm at a loss. Im not sure how well I will do if anything happens to him. If he wasn't illegal for me to own, I would have made him famous with how damn adorable he is like others do, they get all the attention and help from fans. I have never loved anything so hard in my life. It's a lose lose situation for me, Drs have told me to send his x rays to a radiologist for a definitive conclusion, I get that which cost me over $300 and now almost all people who have seen the conclusion, don't believe it and think I should go with Dr Emerson's thoughts, which she believes odontoma surgery is what he needs, but that will most likely kill him because of the issues he's got and even a light sedation is hard to administer, and others say more tests...his bill today is over $400 😥 just for that radiologist test and his teeth trimming, which people don't agree with..I hope the radiologist is wrong, I really do, so much...which is why I want the ultrasound, and even then, my vet said he has a guy but he may not be comfortable on a small squirrel, even if they find it is fat, to aspirate it, may be tricky and he may not want to do it, and the other guy won't even do a guinea pig so he almost guaranteed won't touch a squirrel. So the only other option is sending me to Saskatoon which i can't do, or the CT scan that isn't healthy on his poor little body in his condition. I'm so worried I just can't take anymore. I'm already selling off my new truck I just bought just to try make sure my baby lives...anything small from anyone would have helped build up..I know I would have in a situation like this for anyone. Any baby deserves it, not just famous ones.. I'm so frustrated..Im thankful for your thoughts and just thinking the radiologist may be wrong, does make me feel a bit better that there may be a little hope for him. I hope like hell, he doesn't have this disease, he's already got a dental disease which they say is a disease like we get and not an upper odontoma which then again, Dr Emerson says he does have that...I can't win. I'm gambling with his life n if I lose him, my life will never be the same. I won't even be able to be in my own house anymore because of how hurt I would be that he's gone. Sorry for my huge rant. I'm just stressed and super worried..thank u for your words, it helps me feel better

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I am way too worried to get him in for a CT scan now, due to what both my vet and the radiologist has said, he told me to be blunt, he probly won't make it. I'm literally crying, and I'm having a hard time doing my work. I am going to get him ultrasounded which I was told will cost about $700. I am going broke, I don't think I will survive the winter time now, because everything I make, is going towards squeaky. I had 2 donations to his gofundme from Instagram totalling $40...not one donation on the squirrel board, I even made its own thread for it. Tons of visits, not one donation. I'm at a loss. Im not sure how well I will do if anything happens to him. If he wasn't illegal for me to own, I would have made him famous with how damn adorable he is like others do, they get all the attention and help from fans. I have never loved anything so hard in my life. It's a lose lose situation for me, Drs have told me to send his x rays to a radiologist for a definitive conclusion, I get that which cost me over $300 and now almost all people who have seen the conclusion, don't believe it and think I should go with Dr Emerson's thoughts, which she believes odontoma surgery is what he needs, but that will most likely kill him because of the issues he's got and even a light sedation is hard to administer, and others say more tests...his bill today is over $400 😥 just for that radiologist test and his teeth trimming, which people don't agree with..I hope the radiologist is wrong, I really do, so much...which is why I want the ultrasound, and even then, my vet said he has a guy but he may not be comfortable on a small squirrel, even if they find it is fat, to aspirate it, may be tricky and he may not want to do it, and the other guy won't even do a guinea pig so he almost guaranteed won't touch a squirrel. So the only other option is sending me to Saskatoon which i can't do, or the CT scan that isn't healthy on his poor little body in his condition. I'm so worried I just can't take anymore. I'm already selling off my new truck I just bought just to try make sure my baby lives...anything small from anyone would have helped build up..I know I would have in a situation like this for anyone. Any baby deserves it, not just famous ones.. I'm so frustrated..Im thankful for your thoughts and just thinking the radiologist may be wrong, does make me feel a bit better that there may be a little hope for him. I hope like hell, he doesn't have this disease, he's already got a dental disease which they say is a disease like we get and not an upper odontoma which then again, Dr Emerson says he does have that...I can't win. I'm gambling with his life n if I lose him, my life will never be the same. I won't even be able to be in my own house anymore because of how hurt I would be that he's gone. Sorry for my huge rant. I'm just stressed and super worried..thank u for your words, it helps me feel better

He Bean. I'm sorry for your distress.
Please verify a few things. When you have Squeaky's teeth trimmed, does your Vet sedate him with an inhaled anesthetic agent such as isoflurane? What is it beside the price difference (and $700 dollars is far more than it would cost to ultrasound a human's chest!) between the CT and the Ultrasound makes you prefer the Ultrasound. You have stated that your Vet and the radiologist informed you that Squeaky would probably not survive the CT!?! Why not? It's basically a variation of an x-ray study that could be done very quickly! Are they talking about using Intravenous contrast? I believe that would pose a considerable risk also for a number of reasons; some being that your would need intravenous access, the dose for the contrast material would need to be accurately calculated and I am not sure that there is enough evidence available to accomplish this with some assurance it is a safe dose and other concerns BUT, a lot could be extremely well visualized without using contrast! If it's sedation that your Vet feels would place Squeaky at risk, he is certainly correct in that there are very real risks to use of inhaled anesthesia for sedation but how is he going to facilitate the ultrasound without sedation? Also, that's why I asked about use of an inhaled anesthetic agent to facilitate teeth trimming and apparently, Squeaky tolerates this well!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Another possibility might be to obtain a CT without contrast of the head to verify and visualize dental issues and odontoma or whatever. Then an ultrasound for the chest with a focus on the mediastinum. Due mostly to the size of the area and anatomy in question; realizing optimal benefit from an ultrasound of the chest and mediastinum would require both a very experienced ultrasound tech and a very experienced radiologist to interpret the results!
Regards,
StS

[Bean]

He Bean. I'm sorry for your distress.
Please verify a few things. When you have Squeaky's teeth trimmed, does your Vet sedate him with an inhaled anesthetic agent such as isoflurane? What is it beside the price difference (and $700 dollars is far more than it would cost to ultrasound a human's chest!) between the CT and the Ultrasound makes you prefer the Ultrasound. You have stated that your Vet and the radiologist informed you that Squeaky would probably not survive the CT!?! Why not? It's basically a variation of an x-ray study that could be done very quickly! Are they talking about using Intravenous contrast? I believe that would pose a considerable risk also for a number of reasons; some being that your would need intravenous access, the dose for the contrast material would need to be accurately calculated and I am not sure that there is enough evidence available to accomplish this with some assurance it is a safe dose and other concerns BUT, a lot could be extremely well visualized without using contrast! If it's sedation that your Vet feels would place Squeaky at risk, he is certainly correct in that there are very real risks to use of inhaled anesthesia for sedation but how is he going to facilitate the ultrasound without sedation? Also, that's why I asked about use of an inhaled anesthetic agent to facilitate teeth trimming and apparently, Squeaky tolerates this well!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

I'm not sure but I honestly think it is a needle sedation..he did mention that since the heart findings, he's going to give him a lighter dose. I picked him up and he is still sleepy, it's been like 5 hours. And the bill came to over 500 not 300 like I thought. This is so expensive. He's been giving me deals, but looks like the visit today came to over 300 and the radiologist test was over 200. And yea, the ultrasound is a guy who travels as a contractor and does work for them on exotics....so he's expensive.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I'm not sure but I honestly think it is a needle sedation..he did mention that since the heart findings, he's going to give him a lighter dose. I picked him up and he is still sleepy, it's been like 5 hours. And the bill came to over 500 not 300 like I thought. This is so expensive. He's been giving me deals, but looks like the visit today came to over 300 and the radiologist test was over 200. And yea, the ultrasound is a guy who travels as a contractor and does work for them on exotics....so he's expensive.

Hi Bean:
Please check as to whether or not Squeaky is getting an Inhaled Anesthetic for sedation or injection or perhaps even oral medication. Using an Inhaled Anesthetic (usually Isoflurane) is commonplace in Veterinary Medicine especially for wildlife who are very active and reactive. Using injectable or oral medication to reach an adequate level of sedation would be a hit-or-miss endeavor at the best and is considered by many to have far more inherent risk than using gas. An inhaled anesthetic agent, when used by a trained individual, can often be far safer than trying to get the same level of sedation with oral or injectable agents. The gas is actually titrated (adjusted) to the level of sedation needed and the status of the Squirrel is monitored throughout the procedure. If it seems that there is excessive sedation, the gas is simply turned it off for a short period or the flow is turned down and vice versa; if there is less than adequate sedation, wait a little bit more and/or turn up the anesthetic flow.

Once you give an oral or injectable agent, you can't take it back and it's ordinarily not practical to titrate it! Because every animal responds differently to medication and sometimes differently at different times; along with the fact that ordinarily an injectable or oral medication cannot be titrated and certainly not on a moment to moment basis; there can sometimes be a very thin line between inadequate sedation to conduct a procedure and what is essentially coma and high risk of death. Gas is the way it is usually done but there is always risk! The risks of even "gassing for sedation" are similar to the risks of using the gas to maintain a level of anesthesia to facilitate surgery but one of the major risk factor for using the gas for sedation is the level of training and experience of the operator (the Vet in this case)!

As I mentioned in one of my earlier post, I like the option of a CT to help define what is actually going on with Squeaky's teeth and possibly elsewhere in his head! Once again, maybe there can be a combination of modalities to evaluating whether or not Squeaky has any chest or mediastinal problems with the Ultrasound and if he does, what they are and use CT to help to define what is going on with Squeaky's teeth as there is significant differing of opinions and a CT without contrast would be much more useful in this case than a plain film x-ray!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[Bean]

Hi Bean:
Please check as to whether or not Squeaky is getting an Inhaled Anesthetic for sedation or injection or perhaps even oral medication. Using an Inhaled Anesthetic (usually Isoflurane) is commonplace in Veterinary Medicine especially for wildlife who are very active and reactive. Using injectable or oral medication to reach an adequate level of sedation would be a hit-or-miss endeavor at the best and is considered by many to have far more inherent risk than using gas. An inhaled anesthetic agent, when used by a trained individual, can often be far safer than trying to get the same level of sedation with oral or injectable agents. The gas is actually titrated (adjusted) to the level of sedation needed and the status of the Squirrel is monitored throughout the procedure. If it seems that there is excessive sedation, the gas is simply turned it off for a short period or the flow is turned down and vice versa; if there is less than adequate sedation, wait a little bit more and/or turn up the anesthetic flow.

Once you give an oral or injectable agent, you can't take it back and it's ordinarily not practical to titrate it! Because every animal responds differently to medication and sometimes differently at different times; along with the fact that ordinarily an injectable or oral medication cannot be titrated and certainly not on a moment to moment basis; there can sometimes be a very thin line between inadequate sedation to conduct a procedure and what is essentially coma and high risk of death. Gas is the way it is usually done but there is always risk! The risks of even "gassing for sedation" are similar to the risks of using the gas to maintain a level of anesthesia to facilitate surgery but one of the major risk factor for using the gas for sedation is the level of training and experience of the operator (the Vet in this case)!

As I mentioned in one of my earlier post, I like the option of a CT to help define what is actually going on with Squeaky's teeth and possibly elsewhere in his head! Once again, maybe there can be a combination of modalities to evaluating whether or not Squeaky has any chest or mediastinal problems with the Ultrasound and if he does, what they are and use CT to help to define what is going on with Squeaky's teeth as there is significant differing of opinions and a CT without contrast would be much more useful in this case than a plain film x-ray!

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

I will ask..but I still bet it's a needle, he's off weekends. He was wobbly even after we got home and took a long time to get fully out of it. Seems longer every time. So I don't like the sounds of that.

But again, I would need to find help, I need to raise money, because this is expensive. And all I keep doing is spending, and finding out that the findings are still not right or good enough..if I can do a CT scan and ultrasound, it will cost me way over 1000. I can't afford all of this. But seems impossible with a non famous squirrel.