A question about antibiotics

[turski]

I do have another thread running about our squirrel where Baytrol gas had no effect on a respiratory issue but I wanted a start thread about the effectiveness of antibiotics in general

We have been given new antibiotics to be administered 1st Amoclan and the 2nd, is Metronidasool/Metronidazole, they are both in liquid format

We find it extremely difficult to administer the antibiotics, and we have sporadic success in trying to soak a small piece of cake, peanut butter or anything else... she is one fussy squirrel

So we are currently taking all food away and leaving titbits of antibiotic soaks food.

My question is, if you leave a small piece of something like peanut butter soaked in a dose of antibiotics liquid and leave it for a few hours, does the antibiotic still hold its potency after a while?

[Spanky]

So we are currently taking all food away and leaving titbits of antibiotic soaks food.

My question is, if you leave a small piece of something like peanut butter soaked in a dose of antibiotics liquid and leave it for a few hours, does the antibiotic still hold its potency after a while?

This is not an ideal way of administering medication, though it is done when we are treating wild squirrels that we cannot administer the medications.

Is there a reason you cannot wrap this squirrel up like a burrito, covering the eyes is helpful, and squirt the meds directly into his mouth?

[turski]

Actually we never thought of that and its a great suggestion

We are very inexperienced at this and we are looking for tips like this

However African Tree Squirrels are very small and they are like live wires and extremely active... Im not sure we could do that with ours as she is incredible wriggler

If we did, what are the dangers of the liquid going down the wrong hole and into the lungs?

ANY advice is gratefully appreciated as we are trying our hardest to make her better.

[island rehabber]

When I have to deal with chipmunks, who are small squirrels here in the northern USA and may be comparable to your African Squirrels, I 'burrito' them and then insert the medicine-filled syringe in the side of the muzzle, towards the BACK. Squirrels have a space between the incisors and the molars, and that's a good place to stick it in, squirt, and run like hell.

[turski]

OK...Im liking your idea... let me try the burrito method and see how we go..

These suggestions are hugely helpful

[Diggie's Friend]

As noted, just behind the incisors in the open space; hold the feeding syringe tip held at a 45 degree angle to prevent accidental aspiration.

[turski]

I have a crazy idea and wanted sound the forum out

Seeing that I been given new antibiotics to be administered 1st Amoclan and the 2nd, is Metronidasool/Metronidazole, they are both in liquid format.

I still find it nearly impossible to administer... even using the burrito method.

I just thought what if I take into consideration that squirrels are very clean animals and are constantly cleaning themselves... what if I squirt the liquid onto her fur... she has no choice but to clean herself and would lick it up?

Stupid idea??

[turski]

the other equation I have is that, as I have been given two different antibiotic solutions, is there any harm of mixing the correct amounts in one single syringe... That would mean just one larger dose instead of two small ones?

Would that work?

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I have a crazy idea and wanted sound the forum out

Seeing that I been given new antibiotics to be administered 1st Amoclan and the 2nd, is Metronidasool/Metronidazole, they are both in liquid format.

I still find it nearly impossible to administer... even using the burrito method.

I just thought what if I take into consideration that squirrels are very clean animals and are constantly cleaning themselves... what if I squirt the liquid onto her fur... she has no choice but to clean herself and would lick it up?

Stupid idea??

I would recommend NOT considering this "method" any further! Medications are prescribed in exact concentrations and amounts and are given at specified intervals. There is no way those variables can be controlled using your proposed method even if your Squirrel would coincidentally decide to lick the area where you applied the medication. Also, a medication meant to be used orally may not be completely safe if applied directly to the fur and skin (presumably if applied to the fur it will in a short time seep deeper and will contact the skin). It may be that your Squirrel could have a skin sensitivity or skin allergic reaction to the medication when applied. I would recommend the Burrito Method. Wear protective gloves! Wibble will probably not take very well to being restrained but others and myself here on TSB use the Burrito Method almost exclusively will attest; he will NOT hold this against you and will be just as affectionate between "burritoings!"!

Also, I assume that you are still referring to Wibble with this new thread. Were you able to have the x-ray films taken as suggested in Wibble Creek's original thread along with other "tests" that the Vet proposed?
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[TubeDriver]

I would try the burrito method but if that is too difficult or stressful, then a medicated treat would be the next best option. The trick is finding a treat that covers the taste of the meds and it attractive enough so that the squirrel will regularly take it. I have done this with wilds and it can work. Most meds are probably still effective if mixed with food although you could have issues in some cases if the treat is highly acidic or contains lots of calcium. Squirting meds on her fur is not a good solution IMHO.

[turski]

Thank you both... I will take your advice on how to feed her..

Wibble not x-rayed yet... thats the next step should the new antibiotics not work

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

the other equation I have is that, as I have been given two different antibiotic solutions, is there any harm of mixing the correct amounts in one single syringe... That would mean just one larger dose instead of two small ones?

Would that work?

Hello again Turski:
As long as you are able to ACCURATELY measure each into the syringe, it should be fine to do so. It is a little more difficult to judge the volume of the second medication to be loaded into the syringe because you are not starting from zero with the plunger fully depressed, but again, if you accurately load the syringe it should go OK. I would also recommend gently rocking the syringe several times before administering the medications to Wibble in order to mix the medications. If you happen to lose some of the mixed medications you can try to another dosing of the original volumes and again rock the medication and give Wibble the appropriate amount of the mixed medications corresponding to what had been lost. If you don't mix the medications and have a loss from the syringe, you have no accurate idea as to amounts of either of the medications were lost and giving an additional measured dosing to make up for loss becomes more difficult to calculate.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[turski]

I am now sort of at a loss...

3 different antibiotics with zero effect...she is very difficult to try and administer antibiotics orally but she has had 2 full doses of the last 2 combined antibiotics forced down her in the last 3 days... no change... and thats also after previous attempts with baytril.

she is still sprightly and eats well... but now is not wanting to be held due to us forcing liquid down her... and due to heavy breathing she seems weaker under the effort of breathing.... sleeps more than usual

we have decided to not continue with antibiotics as we should have seen sone change bye now.

Also given up with nebulising her

Vet says pretty risk to gas her to sleep and examine

My concern is that after a month of effort in breathing she will just give up... and anything we do now to medically help is very stressful for her.

any suggestions?

what on earth could this be?

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

I am now sort of at a loss...

3 different antibiotics with zero effect...she is very difficult to try and administer antibiotics orally but she has had 2 full doses of the last 2 combined antibiotics forced down her in the last 3 days... no change... and thats also after previous attempts with baytril.

she is still sprightly and eats well... but now is not wanting to be held due to us forcing liquid down her... and due to heavy breathing she seems weaker under the effort of breathing.... sleeps more than usual

we have decided to not continue with antibiotics as we should have seen sone change bye now.

Also given up with nebulising her

Vet says pretty risk to gas her to sleep and examine

My concern is that after a month of effort in breathing she will just give up... and anything we do now to medically help is very stressful for her.

any suggestions?

what on earth could this be?

Hi Turski:
A couple of things; first of all, I would suggest that you ask an Admin to merge your two threads. Especially with your last post on this thread, there is blending of both threads. We are really back to reporting on Wibble Creek in this thread that was to be specifically for issues with antibiotics. It is sometimes difficult to follow even one thread effectively but when there are two or more threads and posts that may better go in one thread are placed instead one of the other thread; it makes it difficult if not impossible; to keep up with the issues and it critical history and important and pertinent prior posts may never be seen by a new viewer as they will probably be unaware of the other threads.

Getting back to Wibble; as I mentioned in prior posts on Wibble's original thread, the symptoms of an upper respiratory tract infection and mouth breathing may very well originate from a dental issue such as the common condition called odontoma rather than a respiratory tract infection. It sound like Wibble has not yet had any x-ray studies and now having used nebulized medication along with 3 courses of antibiotics with no significant improvement over a relatively long period of time, I would strongly recommend trying to obtain at least skull x-rays that include good lateral (side) views to check for odontoma. An odontoma can cause the very same symptoms that you are observing in Wibble! The chest x-ray films could also be done but if I had to chose between the two, I would go for the skull films to view the dentition and check signs of odontoma which are frequently revealed on x-ray studies!

It may not be necessary to sedate Wibble for these films but it would probably be helpful. As mentioned also in Wibble's other thread, yes, there are definitely risks associated with utilizing inhaled anesthetics for sedation of a Squirrel (or any animal for that matter). Vets with extensive experience in using this procedure with Squirrels or at least other small rodents such as rats and who possess all of the necessary supplies, equipment, and monitoring instruments will minimize but not eliminate the risk of utilizing inhaled anesthesia gas for sedation.

Regards,
SamtheSquirrel