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Thread: Not gaining weight…help!?

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?


  2. #42
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashahaven View Post
    THANK YOU @spanky for combining my posts! I REALLY appreciate it!

    Lucy is now at 44-45 grams.

    I still feel she is underdeveloped/underweight.

    She isn’t dehydrated. DEFINITELY not lacking energy or enthusiasm to eat.

    But still constipated. I’ve given her some simethicone, and it facilitated SOME poopy, but I don’t feel enough so.

    Is it a formula issue? Should I alter it? I mix a new batch every evening and allow it to settle in fridge overnight. Currently 1/3 esbilac powder, 1/3 FV 20/50, 1/3 FV boost.

    Should I back down the boost, now that she seems to be consistently gaining weight?

    It’s a little strange, because she has quite a bit of hair on her head/face, tail and even legs now. But not so much on her body.

    Her eyes seem like they are almost ready to open. (Tiny goopies forming at the eyelid slits.)

    She urinates EVERY time, with VERY little stimulation. But BMs are not so easy to come by.
    Hi:
    Thanks again for the love and superb care you are bestowing upon your little Lucy! Her video looks great and is very encouraging. She is quite the active baby and an enthusiastic eater. I will defer to Spanky for further diet advice as he is an expert in this extremely important aspect of Squirrel care!

    I do have a couple of questions and comments (as usual!). When you say Lucy is still "constipated;" can you be a little more specific---when was the last time Lucy pooped or how often during the day does she poop? By the way, Simethicone is actually marketed as something that may help relieve gas, not a laxative (although I really don't believe Lucy needs a laxative (a medication that is used to facilitate pooping). Also, laxatives may to lead to further loss of fluids and electrolytes! Again, it seems from the video that Lucy is in absolutely no distress and, is an avid eater, and is as cute as they come! As long as there is no evidence of bloat such as a firm or distended (pushed out) abdomen, I suspect she is really ok when it comes to pooping but the specifics, again, would be helpful to know. I know that you feel that Lucy is no longer dehydrated and you may very well be correct but I would still, with the apparent decreased pooping, continue to provide a little extra water between feeding. This will not be harmful. Also, I suspect that the decreased development of Lucy's fur is simply related to her having been significantly behind developmentally; but as your excellent care continues and "catches up" further; I believe she will become fully "furred!"
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheSquirrel2018 View Post
    I do have a couple of questions and comments (as usual!). When you say Lucy is still "constipated;" can you be a little more specific---when was the last time Lucy pooped or how often during the day does she poop? By the way, Simethicone is actually marketed as something that may help relieve gas, not a laxative (although I really don't believe Lucy needs a laxative (a medication that is used to facilitate pooping). Also, laxatives may to lead to further loss of fluids and electrolytes! Again, it seems from the video that Lucy is in absolutely no distress and, is an avid eater, and is as cute as they come! As long as there is no evidence of bloat such as a firm or distended (pushed out) abdomen, I suspect she is really ok when it comes to pooping but the specifics, again, would be helpful to know. I know that you feel that Lucy is no longer dehydrated and you may very well be correct but I would still, with the apparent decreased pooping, continue to provide a little extra water between feeding. This will not be harmful. Also, I suspect that the decreased development of Lucy's fur is simply related to her having been significantly behind developmentally; but as your excellent care continues and "catches up" further; I believe she will become fully "furred!"
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel
    All of this is spot on... watch for bloat, give a bit of water between feedings and because she is behind she will not develop like a normal squirrel. For example, in my experience, abnormal fur development is common when they are compromised like this... just seems fur development is a thing that is delayed in favor of other more critical advances when they are compromised / behind.

    I would stick with the formula as is as long as there is no bloat. Often, less is more.

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  5. #44
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

    Sorry for such a delayed response…

    She is only pooping a very small amount (a couple of pellets) Maybe twice a day.

    Warm qtip stim, or gentle belly massages, don’t do the trick either.

    I lay at shirt on the heating pad, or out in the warm sun. And she wiggles around, and shakily scoots about. The movement in doing so, is when she finally releases a little bit.

    It feels like something might be wrong. Maybe I’m just being paranoid (hopefully) but she has come so far and overcome quite a bit already.

    She was having healthy poops every other feeding, consistently for a few days. Then it changed. But her diet did not. 🤔❓

    (Sorry for such a long winded post lol)

    Other than the potty concerns…
    She is up to about 51 grams.
    She is Such a sweet, energetic and silly girl.
    She’s starting to chew on the nipples now.

    I started researching, and planning how to build the absolute best enclosure for her over winter. Where to put it, what room to designate, toys, materials, foods, branches, nest, etc.

    Im great at building things, have tons of tools, and I want to design something amazing for her. I’ve spent hours reading through all the posts on here and a few other places, so i can hopefully build something great!

    The community here is amazing. The love and genuine compassion and support is SO uplifting. 💕💕💕

  6. #45
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

    Don’t know if anyone is reading this… I HOPE so though.

    Baby girl opened her eyes today. Such an amazing and precious experience. She is about 53 grams now.

    I’ve been VERY careful as she does seem to go “guppy mouthed” quite easy. (Probably distracted.)

    However she STILL isn’t pooping. But not bloated. She has only had a COUPLE small pellets in 48 hours.

    I have spent SO many hours deep diving into SO MANY threads on here, that a lot has been lost, regarding eyes opened babies. (She wasn’t yet, so it didn’t sink in)

    When do I upgrade her to a different enclosure?

    When do I add in stuff to chew on? (Branches and the like)

    HHB, hazelnut, standard and picky are en route.

    When do I introduce the H2O bottle?

    Again…sorry for so many basic questions. It’s been a VERY long time since I’ve been here.

    It’s scary, yet encouraging to see how much has changed in 8 days! She was incredibly emaciated and skin dry even 8 days ago, despite round the clock care, feedings, hydration.

    I know we aren’t “out of the woods”. But today was a wonderful, positive step. Pray for her ❤️

  7. #46
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

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  9. #47
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

    What a beautiful girl-Squirrel you are, Little Lucy!!! Congrats on opening your eyes! I am at work although I had expected to be home by now so I have only a couple of minutes but if others are awake, I hope they will chime in. Even though Lucy's eyes are open, it will take some time before she is seeing things clearly. Also, she is still behind in development but with your superb and conscientious care you are certainly getting her caught-up! I would recommend, at least for the next couple of days, that you continue as you are and just get your new stuff together without rushing or worse yet, panic! You have already started this process by ordering Henry's Blocks. You are doing a tremendous job caring for this Little One TH! I'm glad you are in awe over having witnessed the miracle of Lucy's opening her eyes for the very first time! I'll monitor your thread and get back with you.
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

  10. #48
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashahaven View Post
    When do I upgrade her to a different enclosure?

    When do I add in stuff to chew on? (Branches and the like)

    HHB, hazelnut, standard and picky are en route.

    When do I introduce the H2O bottle?

    What a cutie. I move them to a small cage right around 6.5 - 7 weeks. That's when they start making progress trying to climb from bins... of course, deeper bins = longer they can stay there. You can add a water bottle at the same time though it will be a while before she starts using it.

    Nothing to chew on other than rodent block (Henry's) for a while. You can add a stuffie toy for her to play with... no buttons or beans, etc. to choke on though.

    Little one should really be gaining more quickly.... is she taking more than 5% of her formula per feeding?

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  12. #49
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

    I was giving her around 5% but more frequently… (2.5 hours) if I go 3.5-4 hours then 7% maybe a bit more.

    Is it better to keep the feedings spaced further out and give more?

    I want to do right by her, and desperately want to get her “caught up” and back on track.

    Thank you all! I love her so very much. I want her HEALTHY!

    She’s a super spunky, lively and loving little girl 💕

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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheSquirrel2018 View Post
    . This will not be harmful. Also, I suspect that the decreased development of Lucy's fur is simply related to her having been significantly behind developmentally; but as your excellent care continues and "catches up" further; I believe she will become fully "furred!"
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel
    I second this. Sisu is around the same age and her fur didn’t come in at ALL until all her wounds healed. She is just now getting a dusting at 4 weeks old.

  14. #51
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashahaven View Post
    I was giving her around 5% but more frequently… (2.5 hours) if I go 3.5-4 hours then 7% maybe a bit more.

    Is it better to keep the feedings spaced further out and give more?

    I want to do right by her, and desperately want to get her “caught up” and back on track.

    Thank you all! I love her so very much. I want her HEALTHY!

    She’s a super spunky, lively and loving little girl ��
    I can certainly tell that you love your beautiful Squirrel Baby! I would suggest continuing feedings every 4 or occasionally 3.5 hours as you mentioned and permit (but don't force) Lucy to take 7% of an accurate, before first am feeding weight in formula. The 5-7% "rule" is really a guide, not a rule but it is extremely useful! The goals of this guide are to mark a point at the low end (5%) below which the Squirrel may not be getting an adequate nutritional intake and mark another point at the high end (7%) where there are other risks if the Squirrel is "overfed." Those risks include regurgitation (passive expulsion of food from the stomach or the esophagus) and bloating. Regurgitation will of course result in loss of the formula that was intended for nutritional support and with regurgitation there is risk for aspiration which is having the formula enter the breathing passages and the lungs. Measures to minimize risks of Aspiration must be utilized during all feedings! Other cautions to suggest (really for any feeding but especially for higher volume feedings) would be to not apply any significant pressure around the abdomen while holding the Squirrel, always keep your Baby upright while eating and immediately afterward, and never try to force the formula into the Squirrels mouth. If you are using a quality syringe and nipple, Squirrels the age of Lucy, will develop plenty of suction and the plunger will move down the barrel of the syringe passively. On those that don't develop that degree of suction, formula should be given drop by drop. Again, even the 7% mark is not a true limit but it may be a good amount of formula to use currently as a goal as long as Lucy is tolerating this as it is toward the higher range of volume and hence nutritional support which in Lucy's case includes not just food for normal growth and maintenance requirements but additional nutritional needs for her to catch-up developmentally!
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

  15. #52
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

    Thank you again for all of your support and information.

    Although she has been gaining weight, as we all know, it is not enough given her age/development.

    For the preceding 24-36 hours (until about 20 minutes ago), she was still not having ANY healthy poops. When she would poop, it was basically consistent with being “over fed” which I was not doing. It would be almost white pellets with orange mucus. I couldn’t understand. I was giving water between every other feeding.

    Tonight, while hydrating she peed like always, and then had lots of healthy poopy. I know it doesn’t mean much, until this becomes a consistent occurrence. But I’m grateful for the baby step in the right direction.

    She is still only at 60 grams. Her eyes are open and actually beginning to focus some. She is making some more mature “squirrel noises/squeaks”. She climbs my chest, arms and neck quite energetically and very well (especially given her developmental setbacks vs. age)

    Her legs, face, body and tail have developed much more hair than even a day ago. Still much behind though.

    I’m scared to change anything (formula wise), but I really believe it could help her quite a lot. I’m worried if I do, it could have a negative result. But my gut is screaming at me to do something different. I feel maybe her body just isn’t able to process SOMETHING in the current formulation.

    Any thoughts? I want to try something different for a couple of feedings and SEE if it helps to push things in the right direction…

    Eliminating the esbilac and trying 20/50 & boost for a couple feedings?

    Eliminating the boost, and trying the esbilac/2050 for a couple feedings?

    Or should I try esbilac and boost without the 20/50?

    Any feedback is MUCH appreciated.

    She can, and WILL get over this “sort of stuck” threshold! Whatever I need to do. I will do it!

    However, once beyond that, and REALLY thriving and growing at the rate she NEEDS TO be growing. She NEEDS a buddy/friend/companion. Especially as she will DEFINITELY be over wintered.

    It will be heartbreaking, but I WANT what is BEST for her! Unfortunately, I have had no luck finding this for her.

    Maybe one of you has access to resources/people I don’t. Where she can spend the winter in the hands of a capable rehabber with another baby (babies). Resourceful, intelligent, experienced, etc

  16. #53
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

    I say this all the time... "less is more". Less changes can be a very good thing. She is on the right track it seems and it needs to be given some time... don't change things when things are starting to go right! Continue doing what got her here and be consistent at least for a few more days, or if the progress for some reason stops, before considering changing anything. JMO

    The urge to change things often makes them worse and gets folks into a vicious cycle... usually a diarrhea / constipation cycle.

    You do not want to go to a 20/50 diet for a baby that is behind. You read Little Prince's thread and posted to it today... he was behind a lot, maybe the second lightest eyes open I have taken in. Very much like your baby and I simply got him on a consistent schedule and fed him 50% Esbilac and 50% Fox Valley 20/50 like you are feeding and he is doing super fantastic today. He is getting caught up and I have no reason to expect not to release him in a few months.




  17. #54
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

    Thanks TH! I know you are concerned about Lucy and you obviously love this little Squirrel but relax some! You are doing a fine job caring for this Little One! Would you clarify Lucy's diet please. I believe from what Spanky said, he believes that you are using 1/2 FV 20/50 and 1/2 Esbilac but I thought that you were using 1/3 20/50, 1/3 Esbilac & 1/3 Ultra Boost. As Spanky has been providing diet recommendations already and has far more experience with babies than I; let's defer to him for any possible additional diet recommendations after you clarify Lucy's current diet. It important, however, for you to realize and appreciate that Lucy is making significant progress because of your consistent and conscientious efforts! Lucy even pooped for you!

    In regard to your comments I quoted below; hopefully there will be some suggestions from Squirrel Board members as to possibilities for a Rehabber who has a release buddy (or buddies!) for Lucy and will take Lucy through the winter and on to release with her new friend(s)!

    "However, once beyond that, and REALLY thriving and growing at the rate she NEEDS TO be growing. She NEEDS a buddy/friend/companion. Especially as she will DEFINITELY be over wintered.

    It will be heartbreaking, but I WANT what is BEST for her! Unfortunately, I have had no luck finding this for her.

    Maybe one of you has access to resources/people I don’t. Where she can spend the winter in the hands of a capable rehabber with another baby (babies). Resourceful, intelligent, experienced, etc
    "

    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

  18. #55
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

    Well… little girl is actually doing a lot better today. I wasn’t disregarding anything you all said about her diet. But my gut was telling me to alter it just a LITTLE.

    Since I have, everything has been SOOO much better!

    She was on 1/3, 1/3, 1/3: esbilac, 20/50, boost.

    I decreased the ratio of the esbilac, and it has made a major difference. Prior to doing so, she really seemed to struggle to poo. It would take a lot of time, or effort, and even when it did happen it was NOT a healthy formation. Like her body wasn’t able to process something. The hard white pellets were concerning. Yet i wasn’t over feeding. And it seemed these were a red flag that her body WASNT digesting the nutrients properly.

    Since altering the mix of the formulas, and decreasing the esbilac slightly in comparison… she has HEALTHY pellets, not rock hard, NOT white, proper color, and expelled comfortably, easy, without excessive force required and are consistently occurring every/every other feeding.

    Maybe I have a bad canister of esbilac. (Not expired, purchased less than a month ago, and kept in freezer with the others) but it’s VERY lumpy! I’ve tried shaking it/stirring it, I’ve put it in a ziploc and broken it up, yet it continues to be this way regardless. The exact opposite of ANY of the FV powders, which are VERY smooth and consistent.

    I think I’m going to buy some more, and keep her on what she is on until then?

    It’s OBVIOUSLY made a big difference! Has anyone else experienced this hard/lumpy problem with esbilac? Or am I a total outlier.

    She’s gained 8 grams in almost 24 hours, tummy is soft, energy is HIGH, potty time is natural and easy.

    Spunky, sweet, playful, and affectionate as always (maybe even MORE so)

    Side note: I found my Clavamox, which I desperately searched up and down for before beginning the round of Doxy instead. And I now have a fresh bottle of Baytril on hand as well. I certainly hope I never will need them for any reason, but it’s comforting to know I DO have them “JUST in case”

    ❤️💕❤️

  19. #56
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

    Thanks for the update! I'm glad Lucy is continuing to improve! To be honest, I really suspect that the small change in Lucy's diet made you feel better but I really that her overall health status is improved because of the care you have provided and among other signs for the better; her pooping is now occurring more regularly and appears closer to normal. I still recommend being very conservative in making dietary modifications. As far as the UltraBoost goes, this is in a real sense, a supplement. It is not marketed as a primary source of nutrition, only as a supplement to formula. Fox Valley states that the "normal" mixing proportion of UltaBoost to formula is 1/4 UltraBoost and 3/4 formula (in your case, Lucy's formula would be the combination of Esbilac and FV 20/50). There is also a caution on the Fox Valley page pertaining to UltraBoost to never exceed 50% UltraBoost. I would like to suggest that if you feel again that you must "tweek" Lucy's diet; that you do it as you just did, using very small changes and please do not increase the concentration of the UltraBoost. One of my concerns regarding UltraBoost in higher proportions is that it is not formulated specifically for Squirrels and in fact is not formulated for any species in particular. The FV marketing blurb for UltraBoost states: "Recommended for: all animals" and with such diversity in milk among the multitude of mammalian species, this statement just does not sound quite right to me. All that being said, I have used UltraBoost and I know that some use it regularly. I would hope, though, that Lucy can be gradually transitioned to the just 50% Esbilac and 50% FV 20/50 that was recommended by Spanky. That is what I also use for general formula in my small time Rehabbing endeavors.
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

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  21. #57
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

    Hello again!

    Little Lucy Squirrel is doing quite well at the moment.

    She is about 79 Grams. She eats at a very good pace. Potty business seems to have balanced out, thankfully. (Maybe getting a new esbilac helped)

    Her hair has started coming in MUCH faster. And her little face and body are much “fuller” and healthy looking.

    She loves climbing all over me. Burrowing around under my blanket, etc.

    Current diet = 2Tb esbilac, 2 Tb FV, 2 teaspoons, boost. Feeding every 4 hours. A couple of times at the 4 hour mark, her tummy didn’t seem as though it had fully processed the prior amount; so I gave her 1/2 of the amount then, the remainder in another hour. Which seemed to do the trick.

    Eyes are wide open, and she is incredibly energetic and exploratory. However she is still in a smaller bin. I don’t think she is ready to be transitioned to a cage yet, as she still gets cold easily. She prefers to burrow UNDER all the T-shirt’s and fleece and sleep directly over the heating pad on the plastic bottom (can’t be comfy lol). But I think I will modify a bigger sterilite bin for her to live until she gets enough fur to thermoregulate. Should be ok??

    I am concerned about that stupid injury on her tail from the cat. It doesn’t seem to want to heal! Is it possible the tip of the tail may fall off? The hair has been “floofing” above and below it. Maybe she is biting at it?

    I am monitoring her CLOSELY. When I rescued her, she had fallen from HIGH up in the tree. From a spot taller than the roof of my house. However she did land on soft grass, and her fall was most likely “broken” by her pinkie brother, who did not make it and had internal injuries which proved fatal. Some days she is incredibly coordinated with all 4 limbs, other times she doesn’t use her rear legs as much. I desperately hope she will continue to get stronger and grow out of it. I hope it is not neurological, because she deserves to live free and happy running rampant through my apple trees and maples, with her fluff butt pals 🙂❤️🙏🏻

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  23. #58
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    Default Re: Not gaining weight…help!?

    AGAIN…

    I REALLY REALLY appreciate ALL of your help, and remaining patient with me!

    I still feel like a newbie, and I basically am, because it has been half my lifetime since I’ve been through any of this.

    I CANNOT believe this is the same baby girl who I anxiously was giving SubQ fluids to, and didn’t seem as though she would even make it through the night.

    She wouldn’t still be here, and doing so much better if NOT for ALL of you!

    Thank you!

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    SamtheSquirrel2018 (09-15-2022)

  25. #59
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    Unhappy UTI?

    I’m a little worried Lucy girl might have a UTI? Could I be being paranoid…absolutely.

    She doesn’t seem to be in any pain. She isn’t dehydrated. But her urine has become odorous, and also cloudy. She will urinate without any stimulation, a little here, a little there, or drop after drop while eating. Then the rest with stimulation.

    I’m most concerned with the strong smell and clouded appearance. What should I do?

    I of course don’t want to give any AB if not needed. I do have clavamox and baytril, plus human doxy and amoxicillin (I think Kfkex too, but that one seems WAY to powerful for a delicate little ecosystem)

    Is there a non AB treatment option worth trying to “flush it out”?

    Her urine went from “pee” to “pungent”…

    I hope she’s ok.

  26. #60
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    Default UTI?

    I feel like I might have unintentionally offended one of you who had responded to my post about wanting to slightly tweak her formula ratios. I really do apologize, I absolutely did not mean to at all. I am unbelievably grateful for all of the feedback and help you all have given me. I made a very slight adjustment to the formula ratios BEFORE seeing anyones response. I only kept her on the “tweaked” formula until I got a NEW canister of esbilac. Something wasn’t right with the one I had been using.

    I hope I haven’t alienated anyone, as I continue to need the support and community of TSB.

    If my posts are just annoyingly long, speak up! I will shut the F up.

    Comments/input/suggestions/help!? Re: UTI???

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