Release w small gash on side (cw: wound pics)

[applecrisped]

On the 7th, in the morning, I noticed a gash on Little Sister's side. I was able to get a couple pictures of it in the afternoon

The camera flash made it look more yellow than it as, so side by side with and without flash:


I take food out for her in the morning and the evening, so I always see her at least once (and usually twice) a day. The wound is in a spot where it's scrunched up and hidden sometimes when she's sitting... and unfortunately it pulls open when she lays down and stretches out, which is probably interfering with its healing.
I didn't get a look at it yesterday, but I got more pictures today (the 10th), and it looks... worse.

From the 7th (left) and today (right). Slight difference in camera rotation here. Again, the flash makes it look more yellow. It looks deeper, but that may be a trick of the light and the scabbing - unfortunately I didn't get a very good look today either, was just blindly taking pictures.


I touched the area just above the gash while trying to move some fur out of the way, and it might have been swollen. She shuffled away so I didn't follow up on that, but I will check tomorrow.

What should I be doing for her?
I can get her inside and/or into the hospital cage and she's mostly okay with me handling her. I'm not so great at swaddling and restraining, so if I have to doctor her my best bet will be doing it quickly while she's eating a treat. I've got Neosporin, povidone-iodine solution, sterile saline, wash bottles, and one oral antibiotic tablet (amoxiclav 875/125).

If "keep an eye on it" is the best course for now, what should I be looking out for?

[applecrisped]

Today it is looking very different. Sort of white inside where it was scabbed yesterday.

The place that I thought felt 'swollen'... a better word would have been hard. I got a look this morning and it was just a large scab hidden in her fur.

I will probably see her again in a few hours for dinner/bedtime snacks.

[CritterMom]

The last photo unfortunately looks like it may be starting to abscess. Any bacteria stuck down in the wound will make that happen. Can you dilute some of your povidone iodine - 1/4 teaspoon to 1/4 cup water, draw it into the biggest syringe you have, and get the tip into that wound and irrigate it (forcefully) with the betadyne, also hopefully backwashing some of it out.

But if you have a knot there I wouldn't be surprised if it is going to continue to get bigger and bigger. You could start NOW with the amoxicillin clavulanate and *maybe* it won't develop (though it may still, depending on how large what you CAN'T see is). I don't know how you can do anything with her still in the wild though. If it does turn into a big abscess, it CAN be lanced using some pretty basic tools but you will absolutely need a second person to do the holding. The nice part is that big abscesses hurt like the dickens because of the pressure of the material inside - once it is lanced and the pressure is off it is a HUGE relief.

Hopefully over the evening more will chime in. In the meantime, if you can give us a reasonable guess of her weight, one of us can give you dilution/dosing instruction for the amox/clav.

[applecrisped]

I have 10ml syringes. I also have 500ml lab wash bottles that may work better. I'll add a pic.
The povidone iodine is a 10% solution. I assume that's standard but want to double check on the dilution for it.

Fortunately she's in the habit of having her dinner in the release cage. I can just close it while she's eating and keep her in while this heals, if necessary. She won't be happy but it's doable. (The release cage is connected to my window, so I can get her inside from there.)

She weighed 628g in May but has definitly gained some weight since then. She's a bit petite for a foxer. I can try to get a current weight for her this evening.
Also the expiration date on the amoxiclav was this June.

Any advice or tips on swaddling and holding her would also be appreciated. I'm very light handed and I have trouble holding any critter with enough force to actually keep them in place.

[applecrisped]

I got Sister into the release cage a little while ago, then got her inside and managed to at least rinse the wound with betadine solution.

I didn't swaddle her for this, just squirted her while she was eating sunflower seeds, so I don't think I got a good enough flush to dislodge anything stuck in there. But I got the whole area rinsed pretty well.
She is currently in the release cage, and not happy about it. She did sleep in the nest box out there last night (it was raining) so I'm hoping she'll settle down soon and sleep there tonight too.

I got a half decent look at it while she was climbing down the cat tree. The top, more on her side, has a good scab. The lower part, about 3/4 of the whole, is white. It's right on her flank so there a lot of movement happening right there.

Didn't get to check for potential swelling, or get her weight. She's not talking to me right now so that may have to wait till morning.

[applecrisped]

Good news, it is looking a little better this morning. She's not sitting still long enough for my camera to focus, but you should be able to see that it's no longer white...
She started chewing on it as I was typing. Was going to say it scabbed over night... hopefully she isn't yanking the scab off (addendum: my mom thinks she has been pulling the scab off and the white is just the healing under the scab. Maybe so?)



If I have to make an e-collar for her, she's really not going to be happy.

Another betadine rinse? Saline instead since she's chewing on it?
I'm thinking I can keep her in for a day or two and rinse it out 2-3 times a day?

[CritterMom]

Hopefully your mom is right. Is there any way for you to touch the area around the scab? See if there is swelling or heat there?

Yeah, healing is always an issue because it itches. Children's Benadryl may help that - it is a histamine release that causes itching and it is a antihistamine. Ain't no way you will get an e-collar on one of these little bullet heads! They slip right off. Benadryl dosing is also weight dependent.

[applecrisped]

Scrubbed my hands and felt around on her a bit, and I don't feel any swelling or heat around the scab. I'm being very gentle though.
I have a laser temperature gun - directly on the wound read 94.4, for whatever that's worth.

There is a raised scab up in her fur. I got a picture of it for you.


She's not worrying it too much, just gives it a little chew in the middle of other grooming. I tell her no and snap my fingers or tap her - that's enough to distract her from it and she leaves it alone.

[CritterMom]

That looks MUCH better. That is great!

[applecrisped]

I have her current weight! 795g!

How good/bad it looks depends a lot on the photo angle :/

When she twists to chew on her opposite hip it gaps open a lot and it still looks pretty bad then. When she's stretched out climbing up and down too. I do think all the movement at the flank area is the main reason this part isn't scabbed over like the bit higher up.

I have some gabapentin left over from Sweetie. While I don't want to medicate unnecessarily I wonder if the sedative would be a good thing right now - get her to nap more and run around less so it has a chance to close up.
Thoughts?

[applecrisped]

Definitely want feedback on giving gabapentin.

I'm less concerned about an infection, more concerned that it just keeps getting pulled open.
A couple new pictures, from ~11:30, with it open again.

[applecrisped]

Just occurred to me that the white/yellow I'm seeing could be subcutaneous fat? In which case this could use stitches? Stitches may also be necessary to keep it closed bc of the location? I know she'll yank them right out if I can't keep a cone on her, so this is kinda moot... I'm just venting I guess.

She went down for a nap around 11 and is still in bed now (5:40pm). Not worried- she was perfectly active most of the morning, and sleeping is good for healing. She nibbled on the HHB but mostly just wanted to eat treats. (She's been getting 1-2 HHBs daily, even while outside, so I'm not worried about one off day.)

She'd been staying outside 100% for the past month and a half or so. Our highs are regularly in the 100s here so being in the a/c may be encouraging her to stay snuggled in bed.

I haven't done another betadine flush today. I will try to do it when she gets up.

If I don't hear one way or another about the gabapentin I am going to compound some tonight and maybe give it to her in the morning.

I have a 12" x 12" x 20" travel cage I can put her in to limit her movement... not sure if that will help? It will upset her, so I'm weighing the cost:benefit ratio.

[CritterMom]

Well, the ideal would have been properly properly cleaning and flushing the wound surgically and closing it with internal stitches while she was under anesthesia. But that isn't going to happen. Irrigating it with the iodine will keep it reasonably clean which will foster healing. I usually recommend against things like neosporin simply because it greases up the area and the fur and that drives them nuts and will make her start grooming the area which you don't want. The betadyne will dye her a little orange but it dries without sticky residue which makes me love it for these guys.

And I have absolutely zero experience with gabapentin. You may try making another post with a title asking specifically about using gabapentin and link back to this thread so it can be read for context. If the post title has the name in it, it is more likely to attract eyes experienced with it.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Just occurred to me that the white/yellow I'm seeing could be subcutaneous fat? In which case this could use stitches? Stitches may also be necessary to keep it closed bc of the location? I know she'll yank them right out if I can't keep a cone on her, so this is kinda moot... I'm just venting I guess.

She went down for a nap around 11 and is still in bed now (5:40pm). Not worried- she was perfectly active most of the morning, and sleeping is good for healing. She nibbled on the HHB but mostly just wanted to eat treats. (She's been getting 1-2 HHBs daily, even while outside, so I'm not worried about one off day.)

She'd been staying outside 100% for the past month and a half or so. Our highs are regularly in the 100s here so being in the a/c may be encouraging her to stay snuggled in bed.

I haven't done another betadine flush today. I will try to do it when she gets up.

If I don't hear one way or another about the gabapentin I am going to compound some tonight and maybe give it to her in the morning.

I have a 12" x 12" x 20" travel cage I can put her in to limit her movement... not sure if that will help? It will upset her, so I'm weighing the cost:benefit ratio.

Hi Applecrisped:
I'm about to go back to work but I noticed your post and wanted to make a couple of comments. 1) a wound that is not new and fresh should ordinarily NOT be sutured or closed unless the wound itself is rigorously cleaned and actually revised to where there is clean, healthy tissue to suture. the wound now is filled with bacteria and while that is actually expected with an old open wound, it would not be good practice to close up such a wound. Just keep it a clean as you can which is far easier for me to say than for you to do especially since your Squirrel is compulsively messing with the wound. 2) Gabapentin may help with the compulsive behavior and it can help somewhat with pain but for pain relief, gabapentin works best with a medication that is truly an analgesic (a pain medication). It may be best to consider using Meloxicam OR Ibuprofen (not both) along with the gabapentin. 3) I have tried E-collars and neck donuts (homemade) but an e-collar for a Squirrel that might work will likely interfere with eating so you will need to feed the Squirrel. Some other Squirrel Board Members have had more luck than I and hopefully they will pick up you thread. I'll check back when I get home.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[applecrisped]

Hi Sam!

Sister was up and about for a couple hours and we did another betadine rinse.

In my effort to be concise I sometimes leave out important info, oops. Re: sutures, I do have a squirrel friendly vet (who I assume could clean and suture this appropriatly even at this point) it's just a three plus hour round trip and I don't want to do that unless we have to. But I do have that option if there's no improvement. For now just keeping it clean and keeping an eye on it.

She doesn't act like she hurts, but they never really do. She is sleeping soundly - I was up till 3am last night, she got up once to get a drink and I didn't hear her shuffling around outside of that. I do have infant ibuprofen and dosage info for a slightly smaller squirrel - I just didn't think of it because she's acting normal
Her weight is 795g if anyone can give me updated dosage info for infant ibuprofen.

I compounded some gabapentin and calculated her dosage. I may make a separate thread for that, as crittermom suggested, but it is late and that'll have to be in the morning. (I'll include an ibuprofen dosage request with that if no one gets back to me here.)

Thank you guys for taking the time to reply! I really appreciate it.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Hi Sam!

Sister was up and about for a couple hours and we did another betadine rinse.

In my effort to be concise I sometimes leave out important info, oops. Re: sutures, I do have a squirrel friendly vet (who I assume could clean and suture this appropriatly even at this point) it's just a three plus hour round trip and I don't want to do that unless we have to. But I do have that option if there's no improvement. For now just keeping it clean and keeping an eye on it.

She doesn't act like she hurts, but they never really do. She is sleeping soundly - I was up till 3am last night, she got up once to get a drink and I didn't hear her shuffling around outside of that. I do have infant ibuprofen and dosage info for a slightly smaller squirrel - I just didn't think of it because she's acting normal
Her weight is 795g if anyone can give me updated dosage info for infant ibuprofen.

I compounded some gabapentin and calculated her dosage. I may make a separate thread for that, as crittermom suggested, but it is late and that'll have to be in the morning. (I'll include an ibuprofen dosage request with that if no one gets back to me here.)

Thank you guys for taking the time to reply! I really appreciate it.

Hi Applecrisped:
I suspect that even if your Vet cleaned and revised the wound and even placed subcuticular (sutures that are below the surface of the skin), your Squirrel will still find the wound an irritation and will resume chewing and licking the wound site. This behavior seems hard wired in many animals and certainly with Squirrels. This is potentially worse with rodents as their incisors and strong jaw muscles along with their ingrained compulsion to "mess" with wounds can literally result in them chewing through into a body cavity such as the abdomen or into underlying fat, muscle and even bone. As you have a trusted Vet, I would like to encourage you to thalk with that person in general about what is going on and may send some photos as well; just to see if your Vet has some suggestions. Hopefully one of the Admins can get back with you if they haven't already with the Ibuprofen Dosing. Please let us know how the Gabapentin trial went.
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel

[olorin19]

Is using clavamox still under consideration? (Not advising, just asking.)

I have had great results using clavamox with both releases and in one instance with a wild.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...ured-front-paw

With releases, it often works fine to administer via syringe, but depending upon that squirrel, they may be none too happy and may even bite.

With a wild a few years ago, I used the approach of applying the clavamox to half pecan in shell. Let it dry a bit, then give to squirrel. This worked very well. (Squirrel was a nursing mama, and while it is doubtful I would have succeeded in confining her, I did not want to separate her from her babies.)

Anyways, since then with injured releases, I either apply the clavamox to the half pecan or mix it with a bit of nut butter then apply to half pecan. Morning does works well, as they are hungry. I feed them other stuff afterwards, then stop by midday so they are hungry again for evening does, with more food afterwards.

If Little Sister is amenable, it is much easier to control dose with syringe, but if not, then above approach might be helpful.

[applecrisped]

Is using clavamox still under consideration? (Not advising, just asking.)

I have had great results using clavamox with both releases and in one instance with a wild.

https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...ured-front-paw

With releases, it often works fine to administer via syringe, but depending upon that squirrel, they may be none too happy and may even bite.

Hi olorin!
The clavamox is still a consideration, just became less of a priority since the wound is not obviously infected or swollen. What I have is a tablet for humans, so I'll need to get instructions on prepping it if I decide to use it.


It doesn't look worse today, but it doesn't look better either. Looks like it bled a little and scabbed up again overnight, but otherwise the same as the last picture.

Ive done two betadine rinses today. I offered ibuprofen (thanks crittermom!) this morning but she only took a little bit. She was interested in the smell but made a face when she tasted it - twice. I'll try diluting it with water to mellow out the flavor.

I did give her some gabapentin, mixed in a little peanut butter. She tasted it then turned her nose up. Grapes are her favorite right now so I mushed a grape half and mixed the juice in with the pb and that did the trick. She took a pretty good nap.

Thank you for the info Sam! (I wonder if they make those post-surgery onesies in rat-size?)
If it starts to look worse I will call the vet, and... we'll go from there.

[olorin19]

Hi olorin!
The clavamox is still a consideration, just became less of a priority since the wound is not obviously infected or swollen. What I have is a tablet for humans, so I'll need to get instructions on prepping it if I decide to use it.


It doesn't look worse today, but it doesn't look better either. Looks like it bled a little and scabbed up again overnight, but otherwise the same as the last picture.

Ive done two betadine rinses today. I offered ibuprofen (thanks crittermom!) this morning but she only took a little bit. She was interested in the smell but made a face when she tasted it - twice. I'll try diluting it with water to mellow out the flavor.

I did give her some gabapentin, mixed in a little peanut butter. She tasted it then turned her nose up. Grapes are her favorite right now so I mushed a grape half and mixed the juice in with the pb and that did the trick. She took a pretty good nap.

Thank you for the info Sam! (I wonder if they make those post-surgery onesies in rat-size?)
If it starts to look worse I will call the vet, and... we'll go from there.

I will certainly defer to CritterMom and other experts on the need for clavamox as well as dosage. With that said, clavamox is (deliberately) a fairly pleasant taste and so getting Little Sister to take it should not be too much of a challenge.

Back before realizing I could add it to a pecan, I gave it orally via syringe many times to various squirrels. I would wear these thick leather mittens on the off chance they might decide to bite. (This was rare, but the mittens still seemed a good idea.) With syringe already loaded. I would gently get ahold of my furry friend then hold them against my belly with one mittened hand. I would take the mitten off the other hand in order to administer the meds. I did find that getting someone else to help made it worse, as the squirrel would be more nervous.

Anyways, this approach did work fine, but since discovering putting clavamox on pecans with the wild a few years back, I have done the same with several releases with good success and much prefer this method.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Thank you for the info Sam! (I wonder if they make those post-surgery onesies in rat-size?)
If it starts to look worse I will call the vet, and... we'll go from there.

Coincidentally, I own the world's only manufacturing plant for these specialized pieces of attire for rodents but I recently had to lay-off my entire workforce of 623 employees secondary to supply chain issues. I'll let you know when or if we return to operational status! Please keep us posted on Sister's status!
Regards,
SamtheSquirrel