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Thread: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Thanks for the update KimK! Little Twitch is one handsome Squirrel! Looks like there has been some significant improvement in his seizure activity since last we heard! I'm glad that Twitch is going to get started on phenobarbital! Keep us informed as to how this little guy is doing.
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Aw, he is so cute! Please keep us posted on his progress.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Hello everyone,

    I wanted to give you an update on Twitch. Since weíve started the phenobarbital, Twitch was drowsy the first couple days but after that he completely came back around to the sweet and inquisitive little guy he once was. Heís interested in going outside with me again (he never strays too far and usually always comes when I call him, eventually). He has a huge indoor/outdoor cage that allows access to the outside when he wants, which he had shown no interest in going outside since this began until he got more stable on the phenobarbital. Now heís back to hung in out on his platforms in the sun. I took in a squirrel 12 days ago who was badly injured from another cat fight and heís even being more curious about that little girl. Normally he wants nothing to do with any new intakes. I can just see he feels more like himself and that make me so happy. Sad part is with it working it means one of two things, he has idiopathic epilepsy or itís trauma related. To be realistic, I think it would be naive to think itís idiopathic knowing his history, so if itís trauma related what are we in store for down the line? Either way, we do have today and weíre enjoying every single one. Tomorrow is never promised for anyone, so make best with what we do have. So Iím just enjoying every single day I am privileged and blessed to have him in life! ☺️

    Thanks again everyone! Your knowledge and experience was/is priceless to us!

    ~KimK

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Thanks for the update KimK! I'm so glad that the "old" Twitch is back! He has a history of trauma and as you state, this is the most likely explanation for his seizures. Idiopathic is medical jargon for not knowing the actual cause of a condition (my favorite derivation of this word is: Idio-[don't know] and pathic [pathetic because we should know]). I suspect that it would be best to expect Twitch to be on the phenobarbital indefinitely unless he begins to have problems from the medication itself or his seizure activity eventually is not adequately controlled with it. Please tell us more about you newly acquired and injured Little Squirrel.
    Best regards to the three of you!
    SamtheSquirrel

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheSquirrel2018 View Post
    Thanks for the update KimK! I'm so glad that the "old" Twitch is back! He has a history of trauma and as you state, this is the most likely explanation for his seizures. Idiopathic is medical jargon for not knowing the actual cause of a condition (my favorite derivation of this word is: Idio-[don't know] and pathic [pathetic because we should know]). I suspect that it would be best to expect Twitch to be on the phenobarbital indefinitely unless he begins to have problems from the medication itself or his seizure activity eventually you is not adequately controlled with it. Please tell us more about you newly acquired and injured Little Squirrel.
    Best regards to the three of you!
    SamtheSquirrel
    I have a rule that I wonít name them until I feel they have a good chance of making it (or the perfect name is just too obvious). Sheís called affectionately #87 at the moment. My naming convention doesnít normally work I get attached after a hour, but I try. She came with after being bitten (best guess looks like a cat bite). She has two punctures on her right side that are pretty deep, and matching ones on her left side just not penetrating as far in. She had a corneal abrasion on her right eye, the fluorescein stain had straight line of uptake across her cornea, seemed superficial, eye was intact and not leaking. She had they eye squinted for the first few days. I used gentamicin ointment for 7 days and it seems to have cleared up. Sheís not trying to paw at it or trying to damage it further so I think thatís in the win column. Sheís missing a good deal of fur. Her lungs have sounded ok considering, slight wheezing expiratory, but no crackling or popping. Her temp hasnít gone above 100.7 since coming out of shock. She was shocky when I first got her and was very concerned she wouldnít make it home, but she did and she turned around quickly once I got home and had access to my stuff. Glucose was a little low so I gave her some dextrose, and I gave her a small about of warm fluids, antibiotics, and some pain medication. By afternoon of the second day she was trying to move around and avoid me. She wouldnít drink or move much for the first 5 days. I kept her hydrated with fluids sub-q, which they always hate you for. She finally started accepting water from a syringe about the 5-6th day. But she wonít touch a bowl, dish, glass bottle or plastic bottle for water. Thankfully still taking it from the syringe though. Iím giving her meloxicam for pain. She didnít eat on her own until 4 days ago and is sparsely picking over food. She has managed at least one Henryís block a day for 3 of the last 4 days. Iíve been supplementing with emergency herbivore diet mixed with 1/3 fox valley. She came in at 683 grams and is 641 today. My only real concern for her is that sheís not fighting back like I want to see. I clipped the fur around her punctures, and theyíve never gotten super red or hot. I flush her wounds 3 times a day with just saline and make sure theyíre not closing over to trap bacteria. Theyíre warmer than her body temp, but itís bacteria damaged wounds, I expect some heat and edema. They were red and pretty warm the first couple days but they improved greatly with 72 hours on antibiotics. She definitely does not approve of my scraping at her punctures to keep them open anymore, and is vocal about it. I donít think Iíll continue that past today unless I see some sign of it holding pus. Through all the medicines and flushing and scraping and clipping and forcing food an water, sheís never bit me (my gloves). I checked her mouth and her teeth look fine and I pushed lightly on them with a q-tip and got no pain response. Sheís the only conscious adult Iíve ever gotten that hasnít tried to bite me or eat me alive when cornered or when Iím doing something painful to them. Sheís normal adult squirrel skittish and doesnít like to be seen eating or moving so I try to drastically limit her exposure. Iím hoping she just needs more rest and rehab. Sheís eating with supplements and vitamins and drinking by syringe and I feel comfortable the meds are sufficient. Plan to stop the baytril 3 days after I stop the flushing. She spends most of her time in a nesting box with nesting cotton to lay on. Sheís improving, just slowly. She just moves slowly and deliberately when she thinks I canít see her. I would just would like a little more fight in her, thatís got me a little concerned. The more spunk the better in my experience. I think sheís got every chance of making it back out. I think sheís just not as young as I normally see squirrels that come in and itís maybe taking longer for her wounds to heal. She hasnít messed to much with her wounds so far, which also surprised me. Only her eye and I had to use numbing drops in it twice, but nothing since. Hoping that continues! If you have any suggestions or ideas that might improve her outcome Iím always willing to try.

    Thanks as always!!

    ~KimK

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Hi KimK:
    It looks like you have done a tremendous job with #87! If there was an infection of the wounds most likely you would have seen evidence of this before now as it has been 12 days. You are obviously very knowledgeable, experienced and compassionate and very thorough! The only issue, again would be for the comfort of #87. One of the notorious bugs in a cat's mouth, as I'm sure you know, is Pasturella multocida. Most wound infections are not obvious in the first 24 hours but Pasturella is an exception and it is not unusual to see very significant evidence of an infection from P. multocida in less than 24 hours. That being said, it would be very unlikely for bacteria from the cat bites to still be "lurking" in the tissues, even within the deep punctures without there being signs of an infection becoming obvious by this time. My only suggestion, if you don't mind my making it, is to let little #87's wound heal up without further irrigation or scraping for the comfort of your little Squirrel. I would not put an ointment or non-porous dressing over the wounds if you think that the puncture path is sill patent (which would be extremely unlikely after 12 days) as there may still be some drainage that needs to occur but otherwise, clear Bacitracin ointment or plain Petrolatum can help protect the superficial portions of the wounds that still remain and possibly provide some extra comfort to #87 as well.
    Another consideration would be that if the punctures were relatively deep which is not unusual with cat bites is that there could be involvement of underlying structures such as bone, muscle, vessels, nerves, organs, whatever and if so, there may be also be lingering effects from the trauma itself rather than infection. Has this been effectively ruled out? Anyway, congratulations on how superbly you have and are addressing #87's injuries while monitoring her status and providing excellent supportive care. I wish you and #87 the very best!
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Hello again KimK:
    I hope you stick around on TSB! You obviously have much you can contribute and all of us learn from each other!
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

  8. Serious fuzzy thank you's to SamtheSquirrel2018 from:

    island rehabber (07-21-2022)

  9. #28
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Ditto what Sam says above! It is a pleasure to have a knowledgeable person who does not second-guess every bit of advice given to her.
    I am way late to the party here but just went back and read this thread from the beginning. I had a seizure squirrel for five years who improved drastically after almonds were added to her diet. She had four per day, in the morning, and I dusted them with Henry's calcium powder just to counteract the phosphorous a bit. I'd been so stingy with nuts because a) concerned about MBD in a NR squirrel and b) she actually didn't like them all that much and was so happy with her greens and fruit!) Lucky me....only thing was, she really did need that magnesium and her seizure activity went from 10 per week to one every 2.5 months or so. She never had cluster seizures again after I added the almonds. (Actually, I had nothing to do with it; it was Nancy in New York, her co-mom, who decided to try them on her. Another wonderful Nancy gift to remember.
    )

    I am glad the pheno is working, but adding those almonds can't hurt.
    Island Rehabber
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    Wildlife Rehabilitator


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    You can't afford a pet.
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  10. Serious fuzzy thank you's to island rehabber from:

    SamtheSquirrel2018 (07-21-2022)

  11. #29
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Quote Originally Posted by island rehabber View Post
    Ditto what Sam says above! It is a pleasure to have a knowledgeable person who does not second-guess every bit of advice given to her.
    I am way late to the party here but just went back and read this thread from the beginning. I had a seizure squirrel for five years who improved drastically after almonds were added to her diet. She had four per day, in the morning, and I dusted them with Henry's calcium powder just to counteract the phosphorous a bit. I'd been so stingy with nuts because a) concerned about MBD in a NR squirrel and b) she actually didn't like them all that much and was so happy with her greens and fruit!) Lucky me....only thing was, she really did need that magnesium and her seizure activity went from 10 per week to one every 2.5 months or so. She never had cluster seizures again after I added the almonds. (Actually, I had nothing to do with it; it was Nancy in New York, her co-mom, who decided to try them on her. Another wonderful Nancy gift to remember.
    )

    I am glad the pheno is working, but adding those almonds can't hurt.

    I appreciate all the insight everyone offered! When your afraid the animal youíve built a bond with is on the brink, it puts you in a different mindset and itís hard to see whatís right in front of you some times. As soon as the almonds were suggested Iíve been giving them to him am and pm, and havenít discontinued. I didnít end up using the magnesium supplement more than 3-4 days and discontinued once we got on the phenobarbital. After reading SamtheSquirrelís advice on the phenobarbital, I was on the fence before, but the knowledge provided pushed me to try the medication regimen. So glad I did. The CBD was making him all the strangely, nothing I can put my finger on but just not himself. So I removed that. Just the almonds and phenobarbital now. He seems stable and so much more himself. Thank you all so much for support, experience, and guidance!

    ~KimK

  12. Serious fuzzy thank you's to KimK from:

    SamtheSquirrel2018 (07-21-2022)

  13. #30
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheSquirrel2018 View Post
    Hi KimK:
    It looks like you have done a tremendous job with #87! If there was an infection of the wounds most likely you would have seen evidence of this before now as it has been 12 days. You are obviously very knowledgeable, experienced and compassionate and very thorough! The only issue, again would be for the comfort of #87. One of the notorious bugs in a cat's mouth, as I'm sure you know, is Pasturella multocida. Most wound infections are not obvious in the first 24 hours but Pasturella is an exception and it is not unusual to see very significant evidence of an infection from P. multocida in less than 24 hours. That being said, it would be very unlikely for bacteria from the cat bites to still be "lurking" in the tissues, even within the deep punctures without there being signs of an infection becoming obvious by this time. My only suggestion, if you don't mind my making it, is to let little #87's wound heal up without further irrigation or scraping for the comfort of your little Squirrel. I would not put an ointment or non-porous dressing over the wounds if you think that the puncture path is sill patent (which would be extremely unlikely after 12 days) as there may still be some drainage that needs to occur but otherwise, clear Bacitracin ointment or plain Petrolatum can help protect the superficial portions of the wounds that still remain and possibly provide some extra comfort to #87 as well.
    Another consideration would be that if the punctures were relatively deep which is not unusual with cat bites is that there could be involvement of underlying structures such as bone, muscle, vessels, nerves, organs, whatever and if so, there may be also be lingering effects from the trauma itself rather than infection. Has this been effectively ruled out? Anyway, congratulations on how superbly you have and are addressing #87's injuries while monitoring her status and providing excellent supportive care. I wish you and #87 the very best!
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel
    Thank you so much for your kind words. I love that this forum exists. Thanks to all who facilitate and oversee its content and provide wonderful advise. Iíve just been fortunate enough to have a great rehabber available to me virtually anytime I call locally to help with challenging cases. Also, an amazing small animal vet that loves a challenge.

    #87 Iím afraid sheís got some nerve damage on her front right leg, hope itís just muscular but fear the worst. Muscle and bone heal but tendons and nerves take forever, if they heal. She has a glitchy movement with that limb. The puncture is under her shoulder where, if not mistaken, is where the nerve center lies for that limb. She still had some green discharge from the deepest two punctures so I continued
    scraping that to keep it open until yesterday. I had been putting plain petroleum on it to keep them moist. Iíve just had a lot of bad luck with cat bites becoming abscesses in the past so I might be a little over cautions in that respect. It might be just be me but she seemed to be a little better this morning. She might just be becoming more at ease in my presence but she was getting around better this morning. I might let her spend some time in an outdoor cage later today if the rain holds off. She could use some sun Iím sure.

    Thanks as always!!

    ~KimK

  14. Serious fuzzy thank you's to KimK from:

    SamtheSquirrel2018 (07-21-2022)

  15. #31
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Hi Kim:
    How are Twitch and #87 doing and how are you doing?
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

  16. #32
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Organic pumpkin seeds are higher still in magnesium to that in almonds. Dusting a few of these seeds fed AM and PM with calcium citrate from, "Pure Bulk" is recommended.

    Available from "Wilderness Poet" grown in Oregon; organic grown in the US. Styrian pumpkin seeds are the best pumpkin seeds on the planet!

    Conventionally produced nuts require that they be fumigated with toxic compounds that can negatively impact the brain and the DNA in the body too.

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