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Thread: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

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    Exclamation Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    I am a licensed Rehabber in Georgia. I have a NR that was bitten by a cat when he was taken from his nest at roughly 1 week. Heís has several seizures at strange times throughout his life of 2 years (when putting him back into his cage, then and only then) until yesterday. His food is Henryís blocks with veggies now with calcium and complete vitamins every 3rd day on every meal. His defecation throughout the day always has a light white sheen when dry about half the day. Heís started, the best I could describe, as a seizure storm yesterday. Heís in total had 10 yesterday and 2 since midnight last night. I canít make him stay like this all day today again. Iíve given him benedryl, meloxicam, and gabapentin, heís not been drinking great so I gave him lactated ringers solution sub-q late last night. I canít find anything in my books and my other local rehabbers are the ones who had suggested the gabapentin and didnít have any other ideas and didnít know anything about a direct anticonvulsant. Does anyone have any information on a squirrel safe anticonvulsant? My vet is on vacation until Monday. Other vets that I take rehabs from are closed on weekends. Any advise would be appreciated!

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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    You clearly know your stuff and have experience here - a couple observations just in case though. I am sure you know that getting SOME sort of sugar into them post or even during the seizure will help with recovery - a drop or two of honey or syrup or molasses or even some table sugar will be taken up quickly by the mucous membranes in the mouth even if they don't swallow it. Second, a subset of humans with idiopathic seizure disorder have discovered that boosting their magnesium levels dramatically helps reduce the number of seizures they have. It isn't that they are in a magnesium deficient lifestyle, more a situation where they are unable to utilize it as efficiently as most people do. The additional magnesium seems to raise the resistance to seizures. Now this little one is not idiopathic - clearly this is the result of the early injury, but once you hopefully get these under control, carefully increasing the magnesium levels in the diet and observing what happens - or hopefully DOESN'T happen might be worth a try. Carefully because magnesium will make you poop in too high amounts! Your squirrel will be happy to know that almonds are one of the highest natural sources of magnesium. We have had several people here who were able to control their squirrel's seizures with simply starting to give out almonds daily. It falls into the area of something that won't hurt and may help...

    Do you have the ability to obtain an anticonvulsant if we get you your answer?

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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    Your squirrel will be happy to know that almonds are one of the highest natural sources of magnesium. We have had several people here who were able to control their squirrel's seizures with simply starting to give out almonds daily. It falls into the area of something that won't hurt and may help...
    I personally have not had success using Gabapentin in treating / reducing seizures. I have one neuro boy that the almonds seem to do the trick. He used to get 2 almonds (morning and evening) a day and it would go months without a seizure. He started having them more frequent (monthly?) so I upped him to 3 almonds. He had a bout of seizures this Spring... so is is upped to 4 almonds (and I am praying this works from here on out because I don't like his getting 4 almonds a day and I am unwilling to add any more). He is a super terrific eater of his HHB's, veggies and a bit of fruit since I had him from a few weeks old and so a healthy diets (with the exception of extra almonds) is all he knows.

    As mentioned several members have had their squirrels on phenobarbitol for seizures but I am not familiar with the dosing... this might help:
    https://ratguide.com/health/neurological/seizures.php

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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Thank you so much! Iíve been giving him the molasses after every seizure too, sorry thereís so much in giving him I forgot to mention that. I do have Klonipin but not Valium and not phenobarbital. Once my vet opens tomorrow sheíll get me in first thing but he just seems so miserable, and that breaks my heart. Heís really lethargic today but only seized twice since midnight. Great idea on the magnesium, Iím really picky on any nuts I give him to make sure there are no pesticides used in growing them. Any suggestions on almonds I could get quickly that might be pesticide free? Do you know anything liquid based high in magnesium? Iím afraid he might not eat it. Heís not been a super great eater since this started. Really 1 pecan, spinach, and a few grape tomatoes (heíll never turn down a tomato) is all he eaten since Friday night. Iíve offered food whenever he seems more mobile but more focused on keeping him hydrated.

    Thank you again for the support!

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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    I had a neuro squirrel that had cluster seizures, was given Valium to help him.
    I do not remember how it was dosed but Valium did work to stop the seizures.
    Months later I saw he was going into a seizure, I couldn't locate Valium fast
    enough to help him and it took him. I would definitely speak with your vet about Valium.
    Step-N-Stone
    State Licensed
    Wildlife Master Rehabilitator


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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    I have a squirrel who has seizures, she is on Phenobarbital. I didn't like her being on it for so many years (she is 9) I started using CBD and less Phenobarbital, it has worked wonderfully. I will always keep her on the meds as like Step said it can kill them if they need it and don't have it.
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Quote Originally Posted by Charley Chuckles View Post
    I have a squirrel who has seizures, she is on Phenobarbital. I didn't like her being on it for so many years (she is 9) I started using CBD and less Phenobarbital, it has worked wonderfully. I will always keep her on the meds as like Step said it can kill them if they need it and don't have it.
    At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot. Iím just not super familiar with CBD or how it is distributed. I know there are gummies but how do you get her to ingest the CBD? Is there a product you would recommend?

    Today heís only seized the 2 times during the night last night. It seems to have subsided (fingers crossed and knocking on wood), but I also have kept his activity severely restricted. Iím about to let him more around a little more and see if he seems to be able to maintain a more normal activity level. Yesterday he was ok until I allowed him to begin moving around like normal and he began to seize again.

    Thank you all, Iím so very grateful for your advice, itís so much appreciated!!

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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    I would continue restricting him and just sit and interact with him so he isn't too bored. Your vet will be back tomorrow, right? I think that having a good anti-seizure med READY before letting him do this trigger activity would be the way to go.

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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Quote Originally Posted by KimK View Post
    At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot. I’m just not super familiar with CBD or how it is distributed. I know there are gummies but how do you get her to ingest the CBD? Is there a product you would recommend?

    Today he’s only seized the 2 times during the night last night. It seems to have subsided (fingers crossed and knocking on wood), but I also have kept his activity severely restricted. I’m about to let him more around a little more and see if he seems to be able to maintain a more normal activity level. Yesterday he was ok until I allowed him to begin moving around like normal and he began to seize again.

    Thank you all, I’m so very grateful for your advice, it’s so much appreciated!!
    CBD oil was passed by the FDA for infants with epilepsy.
    I use it as well helps with arthritis, but for that I use the cream.
    I only use one drop for my squirrel on a nut. I have had my squirrel on it for several years, again I still use her meds.
    I like the Sunmed products which I get from 'YOUR CBD STORE' and they are in every state I believe.
    Charley Chuckles gone from my arms FOREVER in my heart 8/14/04-3/7/13
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Quote Originally Posted by KimK View Post
    At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot. I’m just not super familiar with CBD or how it is distributed. I know there are gummies but how do you get her to ingest the CBD? Is there a product you would recommend?

    Today he’s only seized the 2 times during the night last night. It seems to have subsided (fingers crossed and knocking on wood), but I also have kept his activity severely restricted. I’m about to let him more around a little more and see if he seems to be able to maintain a more normal activity level. Yesterday he was ok until I allowed him to begin moving around like normal and he began to seize again.

    Thank you all, I’m so very grateful for your advice, it’s so much appreciated!!
    The Los Angeles Guinea Pig Rescue web site sells CBD oil in paste form. They just rub it on the outside of the pig's ears. It's called Mary's Tails Hemp Extract Balm. They say it works well for pain and just a general pick-me-up. On the home page menu, select store, then pain relief.

    I don't rehab animals, so one of the people here with real experience would need to look at this. I do know that if the medication part of this would work, it would be very easy to administer (assuming you could handle the squirrel without loss of blood).
    Last edited by Spanky; 06-26-2022 at 07:57 PM. Reason: Fixed quote

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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Magnesium threonate lowers seizure frequency.

    Magnesium Threonate by "Double Wood", 1 capsule's powder daily; this not a indiscriminate dose, but factored from my research diet.

    Add half of a capsule's powder to the AM meal and the other half to the PM meal. stir powder into a moist food like organic baked butternut squash.

    For the first week, to allow the bowel to adjust to the increase in magnesium; use one half capsule daily, splitting the dose between the AM and PM meals.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M4GM9R1...2-587d01f975e8

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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Hello KimK:
    How is your Squirrel doing? Did he get seen by the Vet today? By the way, what is his name?
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Hello, Iím sorry It took me so long to reply. Staying up all night Friday and Saturday night to closely monitor him left me completely exhausted. His name is Twitch, he was never completely normal from the moment I got him. They thought he had fallen from a tree but he also had what suspiciously looked like a cat bite puncture wound in his head just above one of his eyes. I really didnít expect him to make it. I thought I saw brain tissue coming out of the puncture hole in his head. But he recovered from the puncture with no major infection, he also had a broken finger and tail (leaving it bent slightly even now). Additionally, when he was a kit he always jerked more when he was sleeping so the nickname Twitch fit. As time went on he would never build a nest and had a hard time cracking pecans. He had quite a lot against him but he was my 3rd documented rescue and I gave him 150% hoping for the best because the first two I taken in had passed away, I was determined to do everything within my power for this guy.

    Fast forward to this past weekend, he had approximately 15 seizures from Friday evening up to Sunday morning at 6-7am, and they just stopped. I was seriously considering euthanasia if they hadnít subsided by Sunday, thankfully they did. After I read the suggestion on CBD, thereís a store maybe 2 miles from my home and I went there to find out what options they might have. They suggested a CBD oil which I tried on Sunday afternoon on an opened pecan and put a drop on it and it took him about an hour but he couldnít resist the pecan. That was the first food he had taken in by choice since the seizures began, so I was more than happy to see him eating something, anything.

    My vet did get him in at 915 Monday and said what he experienced was a seizure cluster, and thatís itís common with idiopathic epilepsy and trauma-related epilepsy. Also, with this seizure occurring roughly a year since his most recent seizure she didnít want to commit to a daily medication regimen if this was only something that was happening annually. She asked that I make a chart and check him as often as I possibly can to see if I notice the behavior that typically comes after a seizure (because he doesnít urinate or defecate when he has these episodes so itís harder to track except for the 1-2 hour super lethargic postictal phase) to monitor if heís having additional seizures that potentially we havenít seen. That if we do notice that behavior or heís seizing again then sheís definitely going to put him on a daily phenobarbital regimen. Sheís just a little concerned because we wonít be able to monitor his titration levels as she would normally in pets. She did reiterate that if it is trauma-related, itís much harder to predict when future episodes might happen and how bad they might be. She said this may eventually lead to euthanasia but we at least right now have options for suppression if they are occurring more than annually.

    I did order the magnesium caps suggested as well, they just wonít arrive until tomorrow. Iíd much rather control them naturally if thatís an option for him. Question about the CBD, heís sleeping more than normal since I began giving him the CBD oil is that normal (did you experience that)? Or could it just be part of getting over what happens this weekend?

    A huge thank you to everyone that offered support and suggestions! Words canít tell you how very much it is appreciated to have such a wonderful community to rely on for advice!

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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    (I did order the magnesium caps suggested as well, they just wonít arrive until tomorrow. Iíd much rather control them naturally if thatís an option for him. Question about the CBD, heís sleeping more than normal since I began giving him the CBD oil is that normal (did you experience that)? Or could it just be part of getting over what happens this weekend?)

    They get very tired after cluster seizures, my girl sleeps a lot afterwords then gets back to herself.
    CBD will calm them too. But I'm leaning towards the seizures wearing her out as that has been my experience.
    Many prayers🙏
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Quote Originally Posted by KimK View Post
    Hello, Iím sorry It took me so long to reply. Staying up all night Friday and Saturday night to closely monitor him left me completely exhausted. His name is Twitch, he was never completely normal from the moment I got him. They thought he had fallen from a tree but he also had what suspiciously looked like a cat bite puncture wound in his head just above one of his eyes. I really didnít expect him to make it. I thought I saw brain tissue coming out of the puncture hole in his head. But he recovered from the puncture with no major infection, he also had a broken finger and tail (leaving it bent slightly even now). Additionally, when he was a kit he always jerked more when he was sleeping so the nickname Twitch fit. As time went on he would never build a nest and had a hard time cracking pecans. He had quite a lot against him but he was my 3rd documented rescue and I gave him 150% hoping for the best because the first two I taken in had passed away, I was determined to do everything within my power for this guy.

    Fast forward to this past weekend, he had approximately 15 seizures from Friday evening up to Sunday morning at 6-7am, and they just stopped. I was seriously considering euthanasia if they hadnít subsided by Sunday, thankfully they did. After I read the suggestion on CBD, thereís a store maybe 2 miles from my home and I went there to find out what options they might have. They suggested a CBD oil which I tried on Sunday afternoon on an opened pecan and put a drop on it and it took him about an hour but he couldnít resist the pecan. That was the first food he had taken in by choice since the seizures began, so I was more than happy to see him eating something, anything.

    My vet did get him in at 915 Monday and said what he experienced was a seizure cluster, and thatís itís common with idiopathic epilepsy and trauma-related epilepsy. Also, with this seizure occurring roughly a year since his most recent seizure she didnít want to commit to a daily medication regimen if this was only something that was happening annually. She asked that I make a chart and check him as often as I possibly can to see if I notice the behavior that typically comes after a seizure (because he doesnít urinate or defecate when he has these episodes so itís harder to track except for the 1-2 hour super lethargic postictal phase) to monitor if heís having additional seizures that potentially we havenít seen. That if we do notice that behavior or heís seizing again then sheís definitely going to put him on a daily phenobarbital regimen. Sheís just a little concerned because we wonít be able to monitor his titration levels as she would normally in pets. She did reiterate that if it is trauma-related, itís much harder to predict when future episodes might happen and how bad they might be. She said this may eventually lead to euthanasia but we at least right now have options for suppression if they are occurring more than annually.

    I did order the magnesium caps suggested as well, they just wonít arrive until tomorrow. Iíd much rather control them naturally if thatís an option for him. Question about the CBD, heís sleeping more than normal since I began giving him the CBD oil is that normal (did you experience that)? Or could it just be part of getting over what happens this weekend?

    A huge thank you to everyone that offered support and suggestions! Words canít tell you how very much it is appreciated to have such a wonderful community to rely on for advice!
    Hi KimK:
    I'm glad Twitch was seen by a Vet! I am not a Vet but I would like to simply give you my personal opinions on Twitch's condition and on initiating treatment with anticonvulsant medication. I am going to make these comments with respect, compassion and concern. I'm certainly not saying that there are no other options but I am firmly convinced that Twitch should be started on regular and most likely long-term treatment with a rodent safe anticonvulsant such as phenobarbital. Treatment can be modified as needed as some time elapses and reassessments can be made. I also understand what you are say when you state that you would rather treat the seizures "naturally" but in reality KimK, there are NO "natural" anticonvulsants. Certainly magnesium may offer some benefit or even CBD but definitive treatment of a seizure disorder and well as the prevention of or decreasing the number and severity of further seizures requires medication. Again, the following are my opinions and my concerns about frequent seizures in animals or humans and are multifactorial in scope and focus. From a simple risk standpoint; any seizure, but especially frequent and prolonged seizure activity can lead to muscle injury and in extreme cases can lead to a particular form muscle damage called rhabdomyolysis. The effects of this condition, should it develop; go beyond the muscle injury itself and can cause kidney injury and high potassium among a number of other problems. Even if rhabdomyolysis does not develop, the stress on the muscles will be very painful and can even cause fractures as the involuntary uncontrolled muscle contractions will transfer powerful forces to the bones. The animal who has generalized convulsions also loses protective reflexes and can aspirate stomach contents or food that was being eaten right before the seizure began and this can result in aspiration pneumonitis (inflammatory changes in the lung without definitive infection) or aspiration pneumonia (an actual infection developing from aspiration); both of which are potentially quite serious. There can be dental injuries and also injury to the tongue and mouth as a result of involuntary chewing and jaw contractions along with involuntary tongue movement and protrusions from the mouth. Also with prolonged and frequent seizure activity, further problems with the brain can develop. Even in light of all of that; to me, the most prevailing of my concerns is that the quality of life of any animal or human who is seizing is diminished and as the frequency and duration of the seizures increase; the quality of life also become more and more compromised and diminished. As an lover of animals as well as my fellow human beings, the preservation and/or the regaining of a good quality of life is one of my primary concerns. This Board is made of many experienced, caring, and benevolent Rehabbers and Squirrelers. Ultimately, we are all in the Squirrels corner and the goal in rehabbing and in all of medicine for that matter; is not simply the prolongation of life but the maximizing of potential and the regaining or preserving a good or lets say normal quality of life. Some suffering is often necessary as we lead our Little Ones back to or toward their destinies but in summary, KimK, I just want Little Twitch to get a better quality to his deserving life along with less suffering. I would opt for medication ASAP! I apologize if I have offended you in any way by this post and if I did, it certainly was unintentional!
    Best regards to you and Twitch,
    SamtheSquirrel

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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    With frequency of Twitch's seizures, I have to agree that I would pursue treatment with anticonvulsant medication like phenobarb.

    My seizure boy, that I have referred to as a "perfect neuro NR" in the past, does not come close to 15 seizures in a entire year, much less a weekend. I suspect your Twitch is well past the threshold in which medications can successfully be avoided. I fear my boy crossing that same threshold may not be very far off. JMO.



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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheSquirrel2018 View Post
    Hi KimK:
    I'm glad Twitch was seen by a Vet! I am not a Vet but I would like to simply give you my personal opinions on Twitch's condition and on initiating treatment with anticonvulsant medication. I am going to make these comments with respect, compassion and concern. I'm certainly not saying that there are no other options but I am firmly convinced that Twitch should be started on regular and most likely long-term treatment with a rodent safe anticonvulsant such as phenobarbital.
    SamtheSquirrel
    No offense taken at all, I appreciate any input or advise and offering their knowledge and experience because I have never personally known a person or animal that suffers from a seizure disorder. So all of this is new to me, even my other local rehabbers didnít know completely how to handle his symptoms (but offered their best guidance which got him through last year), and the internet has good information and also bad information out there. Itís hard to gauge what to believe unless your consulting a specialist (which they can even be biased as well). Many things you mentioned I was not aware of and I appreciate your willingness to share them at risk of offending (which I was not in any way offended). I have noticed him being lethargic again once early yesterday morning when heís normally active, so I feel confident my vet would compound the phenobarbital for him now. Iím also very concerned he might develop brain damage from these clusters because heís still not returned 100% to his old personality. He was litter trained now he still urinates in his litter pan but now only half the time defecates in his pan. He has indoor/outdoor cage that takes up a bedroom and has access to a door allowing him to go outside from 7am to 7pm but he never goes outside anymore, he used to love just basking in the sunlight but not anymore. Subtle changes Iím concerned could get worse without something to control future seizures. Not to mention all the effects you shared with me that I was not aware of. Thank you for imparting your knowledge! After reading your advice Iím feeling it may be definitely in his best interest to consider the daily medication regimen. I also have been misinformed that Phenobarbital was hard on the liver. My vet advised me that that was not the case that it is just metabolized in the liver, but it doesnít pose a high risk to his liver and would most assuredly outweigh the risks of what seizures can have on him and his body.

    I canít put into words how grateful I am for everyone offering help and support you have been my rock allowing me to hold fast to hope thereís something that could be done to maintain his quality of life. Thank you to each and everyone of you!

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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Quote Originally Posted by KimK View Post
    No offense taken at all, I appreciate any input or advise and offering their knowledge and experience because I have never personally known a person or animal that suffers from a seizure disorder. So all of this is new to me, even my other local rehabbers didnít know completely how to handle his symptoms (but offered their best guidance which got him through last year), and the internet has good information and also bad information out there. Itís hard to gauge what to believe unless your consulting a specialist (which they can even be biased as well). Many things you mentioned I was not aware of and I appreciate your willingness to share them at risk of offending (which I was not in any way offended). I have noticed him being lethargic again once early yesterday morning when heís normally active, so I feel confident my vet would compound the phenobarbital for him now. Iím also very concerned he might develop brain damage from these clusters because heís still not returned 100% to his old personality. He was litter trained now he still urinates in his litter pan but now only half the time defecates in his pan. He has indoor/outdoor cage that takes up a bedroom and has access to a door allowing him to go outside from 7am to 7pm but he never goes outside anymore, he used to love just basking in the sunlight but not anymore. Subtle changes Iím concerned could get worse without something to control future seizures. Not to mention all the effects you shared with me that I was not aware of. Thank you for imparting your knowledge! After reading your advice Iím feeling it may be definitely in his best interest to consider the daily medication regimen. I also have been misinformed that Phenobarbital was hard on the liver. My vet advised me that that was not the case that it is just metabolized in the liver, but it doesnít pose a high risk to his liver and would most assuredly outweigh the risks of what seizures can have on him and his body.

    I canít put into words how grateful I am for everyone offering help and support you have been my rock allowing me to hold fast to hope thereís something that could be done to maintain his quality of life. Thank you to each and everyone of you!
    Hi KimK:
    Please keep us posted on what and how things are going with your Little Twitch guy!
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

  26. #19
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Twitch update:

    The vet is having to have the phenobarbital dose compounded, which is kinda ironic seeing as all the compounding I’ve done in the rehab room, lol. But with this medication I would definitely appreciate professionals ensuring the dose is correct, after all phenobarbital is what is commonly used in veterinary euthanasia. I know the dose would be no where near used in euthanasia but I’d still feel much more comfortable having a pharmacy compound it for him. Unfortunately it won’t be available until tomorrow.

    However I am glad to report he has not had any seizures that I have visually seen and only one instance when he was slightly lethargic but it was a very early in the morning and he hadn’t gotten moving yet. Once he had about 5 or 10 minutes to wake up to he was himself. We’re just holding out until tomorrow to get him started on the phenobarbital, hopefully it will control them. He’s become quite a special guy to me and with it likely trauma related I’m just very concerned these will continue to progress and get worse and I just hate he’s having to go through this. Name:  A6DA7F56-8D0B-442F-B931-613F6495CF0D.jpg
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    Don’t worry he’s not allowed to have to pacifiers he just stole it from the kitchen on day and ran.

  27. Serious fuzzy thank you's to KimK from:

    SamtheSquirrel2018 (07-05-2022)

  28. #20
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    Default Re: Need help squirrel seizing not MBD

    Look at that doll❤️
    Keeping Twitch in my prayers 🙏
    Charley Chuckles gone from my arms FOREVER in my heart 8/14/04-3/7/13
    Simon, our time was too short together, but you gave us so much love, be with CC now 3/7/14


    The "CHARLEY CHUCKLES MEMORIAL RAIL TOUR" leaves the station choo chooo
    *Deland,FL. *Washington DC *Boston (Back Bay) *Boston (North Station) *Wells,Maine *Albany,NY *New York (Penn Station) *Back to Deland FL. "July 1- July 22" 2013

    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...RIAL-RAIL-TOUR Check it out here
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...OW-A-NEW-MOMMY!!!!!
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...RAINBOW-BRIDGE
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...e-called-Simon
    charleychuckles1@gmail.com

    I'm not poof reading any of this

  29. Serious fuzzy thank you's to Charley Chuckles from:

    SamtheSquirrel2018 (07-05-2022)

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