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Thread: Advice needed - MBD or Hypoclycemic or ... ?

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    Exclamation Advice needed - MBD or Hypoclycemic or ... ?

    Hey all

    We're raising a small red squirrel (Hudson squirrel) and she's 8 weeks and 2 days old.
    Everything was going perfect until yesterday and this is where I need your advice
    I apologize in advance for the long message, I just want to give you guys as much information as possible.

    Our little Penny suddenly began vomiting around 10 am. It took me a while to figure out what was going on, because I didn't even know this was possible.
    After reading all of the amazing advice here on the board I decided that she probably drank a bit too much milk or too fast. I started her on pedialyte, so that she remained hydrated. But she still was becoming weaker and my heart began to sank, trying everything to keep her warm. These are the action I undertook:
    => Pedialyte: 1 cc / hour
    => Heat pad on low - container placed on it with a fleece bottom, but only half.
    => Penny behavior: very wobbly / unbalanced, squeaking, vomiting, constantly scratching her ears, still peeing as normal, no poo's.

    After reading that the pedialyte would just "flush" everything out, I continued making sure she was hydrated and warm.
    Around 12 am I gave her another syringe of pedialyte and suddenly a lot of milk came out of her tiny mouth. Hoping that that was it...

    It went from bad to worse.
    => She started arching her back
    => Her activity dropped quickly as time went by
    => At this point I read that arching her back is a signal of hypoglycemia. So we immediately gave her some honey (had nothing else in the house) - Seizures?
    => During all of this I kept her very warm on her heat pad and gave her 1cc of pedialyte / hour.

    But even after this there was no change. So we went all out, as we noticed that we didn't have much time left. She was becoming more and more lifeless by the minute, eyes rolling into her head, started gasping through her mouth (at this point I was ugly crying and so heartbroken). This is what we did:
    => We made a warm bath and put her in it. Her tiny head in my hands so that her nose, mouth and ears would not touch it.
    => After this we put her directly on the heating pad and started rubbing her dry / warm.
    => We massaged her belly, discovering that the mouth breathing stopped because of this. (Some kind of blockage?)
    => We dried her as quickly as possible with a hair dryer (level 1 - far enough from our little baby - and never on the same place to avoid burning) - During this part I also covered her face, ears, nose and mouth as I didn't want to risk her getting pneumonia.
    => Every 2 minutes we put a warm towel onto her (until 7pm) while I was rubbing, my husband gave me a fresh towel.

    We continued doing this for an hour and suddenly she was getting more responsive. She also started pooing. However she was still very weak, tired and wobbly.
    She couldn't sit without falling to her side. We decided to continue with the pedialyte as she was peeing and pooing normally at this point. (at this point we were 8 - 9pm). We gave her another cc of pedialyte at 11 pm, including a bit of honey, then another at 3 am, 5 am en 7 am. Visibly getting stronger.

    Overjoyed that we got through the night and Penny clearly getting better, we started our day today with optimism. However even after a day of drinking her milk again (smaller portions, very slowly and less time between feedings + a bit more water as to make more liquid) and keeping warm (as described above). She remains very weak and wobbly. Her head seems to heavy for her, she can't use her wrists / back and frontlegs are clearly weakened. Grinding her teeth (with saliva...), and most of the time still arching her back... We haven't seen her improve since this morning.

    My Question is:
    => She obviously has had a seizure - was this because of the hypoglycemia? If so, how can we prevent this in the past?
    => The symptoms of the seizure and then her wobblyness / weakness, her legs not working properly seems MBD.
    => How does the vomiting fits into this all?
    => What else can we do for her now? Or should I just give her time to recover from yesterday?

    Diet info: She was drinking Esbilac - 4 times a day. 1 Henry's Picky block (introduction - eating just bits and pieces of it)+ healthy veggies / fruits with the best calcium / phosphorous ratio. (introduction - not really eating it) - She has a calcium stone in her home, fresh water every day
    Extra info: She did not fall, she only live inside, she has tons of playroom and she is never alone. We don't have a vet at our disposal.

    Thank you so much for taking the time to read our story.
    And please, don't hesistate to share your advice or ask for more information!

    Kind regards
    A very worried squirrelmom and dad

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    Default Re: Advice needed - MBD or Hypoclycemic or ... ?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSweetestChip View Post
    My Question is:
    => She obviously has had a seizure - was this because of the hypoglycemia? If so, how can we prevent this in the past?
    => The symptoms of the seizure and then her wobblyness / weakness, her legs not working properly seems MBD.
    => How does the vomiting fits into this all?
    => What else can we do for her now? Or should I just give her time to recover from yesterday?

    Diet info: She was drinking Esbilac - 4 times a day. 1 Henry's Picky block (introduction - eating just bits and pieces of it)+ healthy veggies / fruits with the best calcium / phosphorous ratio. (introduction - not really eating it) - She has a calcium stone in her home, fresh water every day

    She is a little young to have developed MBD, especially if Esbilac has been her main food source.

    This is the powdered Esbilac and the liquid ready version, correct? And not the Goat's Milk Esbilac?

    How much does she weigh and how much Esbilac does she get when she was eating well?

    Have you ruled out Aspiration Pneumonia (AP); is there a clicking sound with her breathing (hold her to your ear like a phone and listen). Another trick is to cut the bottom out of a plastic cup like a solo cup and hold the small / bottom end over your ear while hold the large end over her.. the plastic helps amplify any noises. Also listen to her chest for noises similar to the way "rice crispies" sound after you poor the milk over it... snap, crackles and / pops.

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    Default Re: Advice needed - MBD or Hypoclycemic or ... ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spanky View Post

    She is a little young to have developed MBD, especially if Esbilac has been her main food source.

    This is the powdered Esbilac and the liquid ready version, correct? And not the Goat's Milk Esbilac?

    How much does she weigh and how much Esbilac does she get when she was eating well?

    Have you ruled out Aspiration Pneumonia (AP); is there a clicking sound with her breathing (hold her to your ear like a phone and listen). Another trick is to cut the bottom out of a plastic cup like a solo cup and hold the small / bottom end over your ear while hold the large end over her.. the plastic helps amplify any noises. Also listen to her chest for noises similar to the way "rice crispies" sound after you poor the milk over it... snap, crackles and / pops.
    She drinks the powdered Esbilac that we prepare for her with hot water following the adviced ratio .
    We just started reducing her meals as she really loved the milk and didn't touch the block or veggies, so that's why were thinking of MBD.

    At 7.5 weeks (when she was perfectly normal) - she weighed about 81 grams and drank 8 - 9 cc milk per feeding. her max cc per feeding (following the 5 - 7% rule) is between 4 and 6 but she has a very big enclosure that she plays and runs into and she was very active and bigger for her age... I never forced her.

    I just used a stethoscope on her and her a very faint / slow click. There is no rice crispies sound.
    I must say, last week it was 97 out here, and we noticed her having trouble with the heath, so we put the A/C on. (starting from wednesday until saturday)
    Not directly on her, 2 meters from her home and she wasn't in 'the wind'... Could this be the problem?
    She also smaks her lips very regularly and grinds her teeth really often. Pooping and peeing is still ok .

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    Default Re: Advice needed - MBD or Hypoclycemic or ... ?

    The aspiration pneumonia could actually be from aspirating her own vomit. Do you have access to ANY antibiotics human variety are fine. We would need to know what you have.

    Squirrels don't often vomit. How are you keeping your formula and blocks? Formula powder should be kept frozen, so should blocks, with the day's bocks removed to defrost and the rest kept frozen. Both can go bad without refrigeration, including the formula powder ITSELF.

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    Default Re: Advice needed - MBD or Hypoclycemic or ... ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    The aspiration pneumonia could actually be from aspirating her own vomit. Do you have access to ANY antibiotics human variety are fine. We would need to know what you have.

    Squirrels don't often vomit. How are you keeping your formula and blocks? Formula powder should be kept frozen, so should blocks, with the day's bocks removed to defrost and the rest kept frozen. Both can go bad without refrigeration, including the formula powder ITSELF.
    I just rushed out to buy some antibiotics. I have ciprofloxacine 250 mg. (Baytril wasn't available). Would you happen to know how I can determine the right dosage?

    I keep my formula in the fridge and blocks in the freezer. I thought this was fine, but apparently I also have to keep my formula in de fridge?

    Thank you so much for your help!

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    Default Re: Advice needed - MBD or Hypoclycemic or ... ?

    Can you give us her weight? We can provide you with dilution and dosing info with that.

  8. Serious fuzzy thank you's to CritterMom from:

    TheSweetestChip (06-20-2022)

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    Default Re: Advice needed - MBD or Hypoclycemic or ... ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    Can you give us her weight? We can provide you with dilution and dosing info with that.
    She now weighs 135 grams. The Ciprofloxacine is in pill form.

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    Default Re: Advice needed - MBD or Hypoclycemic or ... ?

    Dosing sent by PM.

    Fridge is fine for the formula - powder too - freezer is better. I doubt it has gone rancid if it has been kept cold though.

    Red squirrels are the kings of stashing, and the HHBs have NO preservatives. I almost lost my little flying squirrel because he ate a bad HHB he had stashed - same thing - vomiting and really weak and lethargic. I now do a full shakedown of his cage every morning and remove every shred of food. I would start doing the same with your girl.

    BTW. Cipro may be one of the nastiest tasting things on the planet. It is bitter X infinity. Pull up the meds into the syringe and get the proper amount measured there, use a paper towel to wipe the tip of the syringe dry, and put a blob of honey or similar on it before you stick it in her mouth. It *might* help.

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    Default Re: Advice needed - MBD or Hypoclycemic or ... ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    Dosing sent by PM.

    Fridge is fine for the formula - powder too - freezer is better. I doubt it has gone rancid if it has been kept cold though.

    Red squirrels are the kings of stashing, and the HHBs have NO preservatives. I almost lost my little flying squirrel because he ate a bad HHB he had stashed - same thing - vomiting and really weak and lethargic. I now do a full shakedown of his cage every morning and remove every shred of food. I would start doing the same with your girl.

    BTW. Cipro may be one of the nastiest tasting things on the planet. It is bitter X infinity. Pull up the meds into the syringe and get the proper amount measured there, use a paper towel to wipe the tip of the syringe dry, and put a blob of honey or similar on it before you stick it in her mouth. It *might* help.
    Update! The Antibiotics are doing their job! She's getting more active every day.
    Her appetite hasn't fully returned yet (maybe because of the AB?), but we're keeping her hydrated.

    We do notice that she's very tired / unactive in the morning and afternoon. Around 5 pm her energy level rises. Is this normal? Should we just give her more time to recover?
    I do realise she's only 8 weeks old and they normally still sleep for most of the day, but just wanted to check .

    As for her symptoms:
    => She still sneezes during the day (but we're fixing that with the AB) but not as regular anymore
    => When she is active (more towards the end of the day) she is still kinda wobbly, but I'm guessing this will get better in time?
    => During the morning and early afternoon: very unactive, sleepy, weak again, more wobbly than in the night.

    Mondayevening she received her first two dosages of ab. Tuesday again 2 but now in the morning and in the evening. So today is her 3rd day of Cipro.
    Hoping we get our sweet little girl back as soon as possible! But still being a worried mom and just need to give it time I guess...

    Don't hesitate to share your experiences with your little ones. I'm very eager to learn more about their recovery period.

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