Poop

[Sommer]

Okay, after I got the weighing and feeding thing out of the way I still just feel like she feels full. I feel like she is not as empty as she should be when feeding time comes around. And I feel like the amount of waste coming out of her is just not enough. And what's making it difficult is that I have never used Fox Valley so I don't know how much of it is just the difference in formulas from what I'm used to. Can anyone give me a picture or very detailed description of how much poop a 5-week-old squirrel should do in a day on Fox Valley formula. The poops are definitely smaller and less than on puppy formula but I don't know how much of it is her digestion and how much of it is the change in formula. I have to say on the puppy formula the only poop issues I had was waiting for that initial poop. And maybe I don't even have poop issues right now. She just doesn't seem as empty at feeding time or to be eliminating as much as what I'm used to.

[Sommer]

Her past two feedings she seemed full before she got that last 3/4 of a CC down. And now I know I'm weighing her right so it's not too much. She poops almost every time I feed her sometimes she'll skip one. On the puppy formula it seemed like they had a nice little belly after eating but by next feeding it was mainly gone. Maybe she's just a little bulkier on Fox Valley then I'm used to on puppy formula and maybe there's nothing wrong at all. It just feels different than what I'm used to. Here's a picture of her at feeding time BEFORE she's eaten.

[Sommer]

Maybe I'm crazy and maybe I've just been used to the same thing for so long I need to get used to the new norm. But I would say if I collected everything she pooped in a day and rolled it into a little ball with my fingers it would be about the size of a popcorn kernel. That's just not what I'm used to.

[Sommer]

Definitely not a squirrel specific expert by any means but due to my career with animals, not just grooming but tons of rehab, including medical stuff the vets are confident in letting me take home with fosters to keep my trips limited and specializing in nutrition (having had a holistic pet shop for 12 years) and lots of continuing my education I at least have a good understanding. I've done IV fluids at home, wound care, re wrapping broken limbs, nursing sick animals removing sutures, stuff like that. All with the vets support and trust. I've also raised infant puppies kittens squirrels bunnies and birds just not at near the rate and numbers most of you guys have. Just to give some background on why I tend to trust my gut. I just feel like her digestion is slow. Is that possible? Like maybe a drink between feedings or 5 hour feedings? Just have this feeling she's not fully digested by her next 4-hour feeding. So can you guys take this information and give me some squirrel expert suggestions on what may be going on here? She's not bloated and is pooping. It feels more like to me that she's just being fed too much or too often. But she's not. Is the difference between feeding squirrels esbilac compared to fv enough to make it seem this way to me when I'm so used to only using puppy formula?

[Mel1959]

How much time between feedings? Maybe you need to space the feedings a little further apart. You know lots of folks mix two formulas together, like Esbilac and Fox Valley. I don’t know if this is a good idea or not because I don’t want you to create any GI issues, since you’re not having any loose stool.

You might try giving some slightly sweetened water between feedings. Even babies eating formula well can become slightly dehydrated.

[Sommer]

I'm feeding her every 4 hours. I'm not mixing anything just straight Fox Valley. Definitely peeing a lot and it's clear. But heck some human babies have a hard time with formula. But I know every creature from people to animals have different digestive systems. Mine for instance can digest rocks lol My son can get a cold and it makes him feel nauseous. Although she's having no issues I really just feel like she is not as digested as she should be when I go to feed her again so I don't want to create any. That's kind of what I was thinking... maybe going to 5 hours and a drink in between? Would that be awful for a 5-week-old squirrel? She's gaining around 6 g a day

[Sommer]

What I'm thinking is sticking with the 4 hours and doing a little honey (for flavor) water in between and seeing if that helps. If not, doing the exact same thing but going 5 hours. I just don't want to do that without an expert telling me that would be okay.

[Sommer]

She is 115g and just turned 5 weeks.

[CritterMom]

Did you do a slow transition from the Esbilac, mixing the two formulas over a period of days, or just do a hard switch? We recommend a slow transition. FV has a lot more solids in it than the Esbilac does. It is sort of like going from skim milk to cream. It can cause some real issues for some babies, and doing it slowly helps prevent that. If you did a hard switch, you might want to go back and do that now. Mix up some esbilac like you were using before and also, mix up the FV according to the package instructions. In a third container, make a blend that is 75% from your mixed up esbilac and 25% from the mixed up FV, and feed the baby that for a day. Next day do the same but blend them at 50/50, and so on.

And remember: There is no rule that you need to transition to a new formula. If they are doing great on Esbilac you can continue to use it. There is no rule that you need to transition all the way to Fox Valley - you can feed a blend of the two that works well for you.

The FV is more convenient for rehabbers - if the baby does well on it, it is much less expensive, and the additional solids and slower digestion time mean fewer feedings and you get to sleep through the night sooner...

[Sommer]

Well I've never had HER on esbilac. I got her 18 days ago. I remember 30 years ago our local wildlife center was recommending KMR on squirrels. And I remember I was volunteering there back when that changed to puppy formula. Doing around one squirrel every year or two per year that people I know bring to me I do keep up on what is no longer recommended. But I didn't know until the one I did a little over a year ago that squirrel formula even existed because I haven't volunteered at a wildlife center for about 18 years so every time I got a squirrel I just made sure I was current on the puppy formula that is recommended so I used that on the last one having already bought it. But when I got this one I decided I was going to go with the squirrel formula. So she got homemade goat milk formula for a few days until it came in the mail. I did slowly transition her at that time but she has been on Fox Valley since then. So a little over 2 weeks. Nothing really stood out because she was definitely under the weight range she was supposed to be at. It wasn't until she caught up to it that I started noticing it just didn't seem to be going through her fast enough. I just got done with a feeding about 30 minutes ago. By then it was too late to do the fluids in between so instead of giving her 8 cc's of the Fox Valley formula I gave her 5 cc's of the Fox Valley formula and mixed 3 cc's of water with it. So I just diluted it a bit since she's still did not seem empty. And that was the rest of the formula I had mixed. I'm now making a new batch of formula because I like for it to sit at least from one feeding to the next before I actually use it if not overnight. I figured this one I would add a pinch of probiotics to. And now I can start giving her a drink in between feedings see if that helps.

[Sommer]

This is the biggest poop she's had so far. Usually her poops are 1/3 to 1/2 this amount. She poops most feedings but will usually skip pooping on about 2 feedings in a 24-hour period. Tell me if this is a normal amount. They're definitely smaller and less than with the puppy formula. I put a 3 cc syringe next to it for comparison.

[CritterMom]

Ah, ok. Sorry. I would watch her tummy rather than be on a set feeding schedule. You want to fill them up and then let them empty out before they eat again, not top them off with fresh formula when they still have their big milk tummy. If it is time to feed, look at her belly. If she still looks like she is fat and full of milk, check her again in half an hour, and so on. The FV does digest more slowly than other formulas. As long as her tummy is soft and squishy you aren't looking at a bloat situation. Once you get a feel for how long it is taking her to "empty out" - that is either digest and utilize what they have eaten and pooped out the remainder, and that can be your new space between feedings.

The poops are a little small but there are a fair number of them. See what happens at the next feeding.

[Sommer]

Yeah, that's kind of what it felt like. I mean she is showing no signs of distress or anything. But it definitely felt like I was either feeding too much or too often even though neither was the case. I have at least done enough squirrels to know just by picking them up the difference between a full belly and an empty belly and I felt like I was packing more on before she was empty. Even she was starting to turn her head to the side and not quite want that last cc as if she were full. But like I said that's the biggest poop she's ever done at one time. Usually it takes her two or three feeding sessions to come up with that much poop.

[Sommer]

But now if I'm spacing them out until she feels like she's ready for a feeding I should be hydrating in between correct? How much would you suggest if so?

[CritterMom]

But now if I'm spacing them out until she feels like she's ready for a feeding I should be hydrating in between correct? How much would you suggest if so?

Only if you are seeing signs of dehydration. The formula is two parts water, and mama squirrel can't haul Poland Spring bottles up to the nest! Providing additional hydration is a fix for a problem, not the normal nursing process.

[Sommer]

That's very true. But it's breast milk and so much more bioavailable. I always assumed they ate more often with Mom and that a "human mom" feeding schedule was based on how much heavier and slower formula is. If it takes 5 hours or so to digest will she stay hydrated spacing it out that far without a drink in between?

[Sommer]

I sprinkled some garden of life probiotics in this formula batch. Maybe that'll help her with her digestion. When I ordered her Fox Valley from Henry's I saw that he had quite a busy goat milk formula recipe on there compared to what I was used to. I thought what the heck so I tried that one. Didn't take long to figure out that one was too heavy for her. Her poop was mushy and had what looked like cottage cheese pieces in it so it clearly wasn't digesting all the way. The probiotics straightened her right up and I went back to the old 3:1:1 I was used to and everything was fine. So it seems her tummy is a little sensitive and could use the probiotics anyway.

[Sommer]

I nursed my son and my friends daughter was on formula. There was no way my son would go as long as she did between feedings. He never once got constipation either and she did at least once a week. I'm not enough of a squirrel expert to know the proper balance of replicating nature while using synthetic food. A dog or cat, maybe, but not a squirrel lol growing up with horses I know that what might give a dog a tummy ache could kill a horse. I would imagine considering their diet a squirrel has a decently strong digestive system but this little girl seems a bit sensitive. I'd rather ask yall than get her into trouble.

[CritterMom]

If it makes you feel more at ease, go ahead and give a little warm water in between feedings, but please do it closer to the last feeding and not the next feeding, so you don't have a baby full of water who is refusing formula because she is full.

[Sommer]

Well I'll go without the in between if you think that's fine. The food will definitely last just couldn't even guess on the hydration. If it took her five plus hours would that be okay on the hydration level?