Its time for a grey

[McCarthy]

Study on the topic of Vitamin D metabolism and age. Will be comparable in all mammals.

EFFECT OF AGE ON VITAMIN D AND CALCIUM METABOLISM
The following are effects of age on vitamin D and calcium metabolism:

- Decreased calcium absorption
- Intestinal resistance of calcium absorption to circulating 1,25(OH)2D
- Decreased VDR
- Decreased renal production of 1,25(OH)2D by the aging kidney
- Decreased skin production of vitamin D
- Substrate deficiency of vitamin D


Hence, with increasing age both vitamin D and calcium intake should be increased. Something that gets totally ignored with any rodent blocks or around here.

The general claim that the rodent block will be enough at any age must be consequently false.



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3782116/

[McCarthy]

Short info for all that follow my adventures: I had 2 posts removed from 2 admins in 2 different instances. In the last one I shared a link to a study on the topic of the thread and Vitamin D metabolism, but it was claimed twice that I'm ""argumentative"".

Besides sharing my personal stories in this thread, I'm not here to lecture anybody but to help squirrels in need, especially after seeing that new threads get increasingly less and even no responses compared to past years, and to share what I have learned over the years. What I have to say may not fit into the established routines, but I think this forum could make use of more in-depth and new perspectives when it comes to options in dealing with health issues of our beloved squirrels.

I don't like being silenced, censored or told what I can say or when to say it, not after investing so much time to bring some content to this forum.

I'll (too) start my own place, where I (and others) can share information that helps squirrels, without being censored.

No hard feelings, this is just not working for me. Wishing you all well.

[Spanky]

I have moved your original posts into this thread... I did remove the posts from the original thread they were posted and invited you via PM to start a thread if you wished to discuss Vitamin D and sunlight... and whatever else... I even include your posts so you could copy and paste. It was more an attempt to redirect to a different thread if you insisted on continuing versus "silencing" you. I removed 2 posts in the same thread and am unaware if another admin also removed posts and called you argumentative (not sure I did that), but that would be quite a coincidence for another admin to have intervened around the same time (or maybe the other incidence is not something that happened recently?)...

[Spanky]

The general claim that the rodent block will be enough at any age must be consequently false.

I am curious exactly how you arrived at this conclusion? I will admit I only skimmed the NIH link, but I did search for "rodent" and came up empty...

[Charley Chuckles]

I'm missing the beach Squirrels 😁
How y'all doing🤷

[island rehabber]

​McCarthy got pi**ed off because we edited a couple of his threads, picked up his squirrels and camera and left the Board. Such drama....sheesh.

[BCChins]

I'm missing the beach Squirrels 😁
How y'all doing🤷

I miss them too

[Charley Chuckles]

​McCarthy got pi**ed off because we edited a couple of his threads, picked up his squirrels and camera and left the Board. Such drama....sheesh.

Just #amn 🤦
I'm gonna miss him and the beach squirrels😒

[McCarthy]

I'm back, for now. By the way: thanks for the PMs!

My gang and I have been fine, well, until today.

I spent about every other day in the park, the group of greys that bonded with me is now close to 20 wilds. It gets hectic when I show up, and I'm now really known as the squirrel whisperer with many locals. I'll get back to details later on.

Today one of my oldest males showed up. While most come by every single time I'm in the park, he only comes down about once a week, and rather less in recent time. He is one of the oldest around, high in the pack order, nobody messes with him, he doesn't chase anymore, doesn't run anymore, he eats and goes up his tree again, slowly.

Today he ate some nuts, and I could see that he wasn't able to sit up properly. So he ate while laying on his belly. When he was done, I saw that he couldn't even climb up the tree anymore, he just laid down at a tree stump. He always had some balancing issues, likely due to age or an old fall, but now its gotten to a point that it was clear that he will be gone within the next couple nights if I don't intervene. The park still has hawks, dogs and raccoons around, a grey being forced to stay on the ground won't make it very long.

So I took him home.

3 scenarios come to my mind:

1.) He is just old and increasingly weak, and I'll provide him a worthwhile retirement in my home without being eaten alive by a predator.

2.) He fell and is dealing with a fracture or injury in his hips.

3.) MBD due to:

- age and not being out in the sun enough (in the park he only eats and goes straight back to his den)
- too much junkfood in the park
- genetics

If you guys have any other assumptions or suggestions, please let me know.

I uploaded a video, it shows how much trouble he has to sit up. He is not climbing anything anymore, no fast movements either:

[island rehabber]

Welcome back, McCarthy! Good to see you.
What I see in your video is a little guy of some age who cannot support himself on his back end. I can't see if there is an open injury in his hip or groin area; you'd have to pick him up and turn him over to determine that. On the good news side, he is bright-eyed and alert and does not appear to be that debilitated. He takes food so willingly from you, even when you beaned him in the head .

You did the right thing taking him in. Now to observe closely what is actually wrong. If you suspect MBD, try getting some extra calcium citrate into his diet, even if it's rolling some almonds in the powder. You might try to examine him by covering with a thick piece of fleece, right over his head and face. Now with one hand on the back of his neck you can peel back the other end of the fleece and take a look at his hips and back. Wear gloves.

[FurBabyMom80]

Omg I just came across this thread and I am in LOVE with the beach squirrel gang!!!

I hope the poor guy you took home is doing alright!

[McCarthy]

Welcome back, McCarthy! Good to see you.
What I see in your video is a little guy of some age who cannot support himself on his back end. I can't see if there is an open injury in his hip or groin area; you'd have to pick him up and turn him over to determine that. On the good news side, he is bright-eyed and alert and does not appear to be that debilitated. He takes food so willingly from you, even when you beaned him in the head .

You did the right thing taking him in. Now to observe closely what is actually wrong. If you suspect MBD, try getting some extra calcium citrate into his diet, even if it's rolling some almonds in the powder. You might try to examine him by covering with a thick piece of fleece, right over his head and face. Now with one hand on the back of his neck you can peel back the other end of the fleece and take a look at his hips and back. Wear gloves.

Thank you!

There are no open wounds and his groin area looks dated but fine. His right hind is lagging at times, but he often walks around and uses it normally. My best guess so far is just some age related pain and avoiding to use it properly at all times. When he tried to jump into my van today, he came in very short, so jumping is a no-go as well.

Thinking back, he was slow for a while, probably half a year. Now he is just in too much pain / too weak to get up on his tree.

He has a very unique personality. Like almost all wild males, he is not cuddly, but his limitations made him bond with me to a degree that I can have my hands right next to him. He is not like some females that walk all over me and that I can handle completely. So I haven't picked him up and I pretty sure our relationship will be based on trust and his agreement only.

I think I'll just watch him closely for a week. Once he has settled in, I'll let him roam when I'm around, and go from there.

I've got a fresh bag of calcium citrate and will add some to his diet.

While driving home he found my bag of pistachios, had several, and laid flat on the bed in my camper for a nap. Any healthy wild would be all over the place and not chill out like that.

[Snicker Bar]

Been missing this thread !
He’s in good hands with you

Please keep updates coming, on all of them !

[island rehabber]

He looks totally relieved to be in the "Food Truck".

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Welcome back, McCarthy & Squirrels!!
SamtheSquirrel

[Mel1959]

I agree that’s very odd behavior for a wild…..however wilds do become VERY trusting over time. Since he is now in your possession, do you have metacam? I’m wondering if his limitations are due to age or injury if dosing him would help with any pain he might be experiencing? Infant ibuprofen will work in a pinch but metacam is preferable as I think it’s tolerated better.

What do others think about this?

Are you still in Florida? Im also in Florida and have plenty of metacam and will share. ��

[McCarthy]

I just spent an hour with him, after the first night. He does not try to get out of the cage, a clear sign that he is weak and / or hurting, or comfortable. He already considers it his territory since he leaped at my hand the first time I was in there. Luckily (or sadly) my hand was faster - another sign that he is not a fit squirrel. I then hand-fed him without any further leaps.

When he was done, he took a bath, mainly around his groin, while sitting on his back. I couldn't see any open wounds or abnormalizes. After that he just laid down for a nap, didn't even care to curl up or make a nest.

If this condition would be out of the blue, I'd be concerned about an injury, but considering how sluggish and slow he has been in the park for a long time and just watching him again today, there is no doubt in my mind that he would have disappeared very soon in his current state, not being able to jump and climb anymore. There is no bush in the beach park, only tall trees and lots of open ground. A squirrel on the ground that can't climb anymore and is slow, would be found fast by stupid kids, dogs, hawks or at night by the raccoons, or run over by folks on fast e-bikes.

He is a lovely guy.

[SamtheSquirrel2018]

Thank you for taking-in this little Squirrel and putting him under your loving care! One of the conditions that comes to my feeble mind with what you are describing, McCarthy; is relatively low dose poisoning with Bromethalin. It is relatively unlikely in a park setting but still possible, I suppose. There is no antidote for Bromethalin but low dose poisoning may result in some degree (or possibly nearly full) of recovery. Higher dose Bromethalin poisoning usually results in hyperactivity, seizures and quick death so IF this is from Bromethalin, it was not a high dose poisoning!

It may be as you included in in your list of possibilities that this Squirrel is elderly and your willingness to make his remaining days safe and comfortable are very kind and admirable and all that is necessary or possible.

To cover another possibility that you also mentioned; I would also like to suggest that you immediately begin treating him for MBD using Henry's protocol ( https://www.henryspets.com/what-is-m...-bone-disease/ ). It is a simple protocol to follow and is quite effective and if it's not MBD, the treatment will do no harm while if it is MBD, it could very well save his life and return him to normal functioning!

It is a commonly stated that wild Squirrels do not get MBD and that this is a condition found only in captive Squirrels but I have always doubted the logic of this. My feeling on this is that just as you mentioned in your thread, wilds can easily have some of the same issues as captives that could predispose them to MBD such as inadequate Vitamin D or inability to obtain a protective diet that would ordinarily contain adequate Calcium. Also, for Squirrels in a park setting where they may be fed by humans with nuts, treats, and human food; they may very well be getting excessive phosphorus and even if they had what would ordinarily be an adequate and protective calcium intake; the Calciumhosporus ratio may be so low that MBD will develop anyway!

Regards and thanks for your devotion, care, and love for these Little Squirrels. Again, welcome back to TSB!
SamtheSquirrel

[McCarthy]

Thank you for taking-in this little Squirrel and putting him under your loving care! One of the conditions that comes to my feeble mind with what you are describing, McCarthy; is relatively low dose poisoning with Bromethalin. It is relatively unlikely in a park setting but still possible, I suppose. There is no antidote for Bromethalin but low dose poisoning may result in some degree (or possibly nearly full) of recovery. Higher dose Bromethalin poisoning usually results in hyperactivity, seizures and quick death so IF this is from Bromethalin, it was not a high dose poisoning!

It may be as you included in in your list of possibilities that this Squirrel is elderly and your willingness to make his remaining days safe and comfortable are very kind and admirable and all that is necessary or possible.

To cover another possibility that you also mentioned; I would also like to suggest that you immediately begin treating him for MBD using Henry's protocol ( https://www.henryspets.com/what-is-m...-bone-disease/ ). It is a simple protocol to follow and is quite effective and if it's not MBD, the treatment will do no harm while if it is MBD, it could very well save his life and return him to normal functioning!

It is a commonly stated that wild Squirrels do not get MBD and that this is a condition found only in captive Squirrels but I have always doubted the logic of this. My feeling on this is that just as you mentioned in your thread, wilds can easily have some of the same issues as captives that could predispose them to MBD such as inadequate Vitamin D or inability to obtain a protective diet that would ordinarily contain adequate Calcium. Also, for Squirrels in a park setting where they may be fed by humans with nuts, treats, and human food; they may very well be getting excessive phosphorus and even if they had what would ordinarily be an adequate and protective calcium intake; the Calciumhosporus ratio may be so low that MBD will develop anyway!

Regards and thanks for your devotion, care, and love for these Little Squirrels. Again, welcome back to TSB!
SamtheSquirrel

Thank you for your input. I just read up on bromethalin, and the low dose consequences indeed line up with his issues, especially "hind leg weakness".

I better don't witness anybody poisoning those squirrels in the park, I'd go to jail for my "response".

That being said, I haven't witnessed any other squirrels with toxic reactions and I'm only missing one other old guy. He is blind in one eye so there is a high risk that he was run over by a bike. I haven't seen him in about 4 weeks. He has his territory a bit further away, so he may still be around.

I'm starting the calcium diet today.

I also installed my "baby" cam so I can watch him on every TV set and computer monitor in my house, and when I'm gone.

He is clearly weak / tired / suffering. Below a few screenshots. At least I saw him stretch and drink water on his own.

[McCarthy]

I agree that’s very odd behavior for a wild…..however wilds do become VERY trusting over time. Since he is now in your possession, do you have metacam? I’m wondering if his limitations are due to age or injury if dosing him would help with any pain he might be experiencing? Infant ibuprofen will work in a pinch but metacam is preferable as I think it’s tolerated better.

What do others think about this?

Are you still in Florida? Im also in Florida and have plenty of metacam and will share. ��

I'm still in Florida, won't go to any other state, and still looking for some land around my neck, for my squirrel sanctuary. Land prices are still double compared to 3 years ago, so I'll be waiting for them to come down.

Unless I'm seeing something really concerning, I'll only provide him with some calcium for now. Pain killer makes them think that everything is back to normal and they often become to active (or high) for their situation. I do have infant ibuprofen in my fridge but I agree that metacam would be a better medication. I'll get back to you once he has settled in, thank you for offering.