Ringer’s Histopath

[Snicker Bar]

Attachment 320439

I received his report today but it was after 5:00 when I read it and the lab was closed . But tomorrow I will call the pathologist and ask any questions others here may have.

So based on the lesions, they were thinking this was a viral pneumonia? What types of viruses do this in squirrels? Has anyone ever dealt with this?
And if so, how do we diagnose and treat it??

Could the pustules on his tummy/abdomen actually have been from a Pox virus?? Does squirrel pox cause pneumonia??
Are there tests for it we could have sent off?

So many questions still

[Snicker Bar]

Attachment 320440

Here are the pics of his tummy on the day he came. We were told he was full of maggots. Later , I learned that the original rehabber removed two “large single worms”. So , I assumed these were bot fly larvae? But could these nodular, purulent wounds have been from a virus, and the worms were just an incidental finding??

[Mel1959]

Wow! All those technical terms and I’m trying to comprehend and follow. It sounds like Ringer had viral pneumonia, which is what caused his death. Unless I missed it, I’m not reading that there was an abundance of worm (parasite) larvae in any of his intestines or lungs. This was the presumptive issue with him. Is that correct?

I guess my question would be, if Ringer had viral pneumonia, what antibiotic would have made a difference in his treatment? From what I understand he was being treated with stacked Baytril and Clavamox. If these were not the proper treatment to eradicate his pneumonia, what meds would have been?

Thank you for posting this info.

[Snicker Bar]

I had thought possibly the worms, because his fecal showed a heavy nematode burden. He was prescribed Panacur, and after the first two doses they began to see him go down fast . So I was wondering, if there was a reaction going on , possibly worms dying in abnormal places??

Viral would explain why the antibiotics had no effect . Although, the first go around with the presumed AP, he did improve for me. But his breathing was just never right it seemed.

Do babies get squirrel pox? And did his stomach lesions look like pox? Does it cause viral pneumonia?
What are common viruses that cause babies to die, and how can we recognize them, and treat accordingly, and with what ?

I can ask the pathologist these questions tomorrow, but I figure members here have far more knowledge and hopefully answers to some of these .

[TubeDriver]

Just a long shot possibility but syncytial formation in the lungs can be caused by Coronavirus infection. There are a hundreds of different types affecting many types of animals and humans as well.


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41418-021-00795-y

[Snicker Bar]

That’s what I was just told per text, could that have been it??

I will definitely ask the pathologist if there are any further tests that could be done to specifically identify what was the name of this virus he had??? It may not be possible but I’m still going to ask first thing !

[Mel1959]

The areas on his stomach don’t look like pox, but I’m no expert when it’s in its primary phase.

Were there no abundance of worms found in his stomach or lungs? That was what I thought might have compromised his breathing.

[Snicker Bar]

Here is the report

[Snicker Bar]

I wanted to let everyone know I was finally able to talk to the pathologist yesterday about these results. She said without a doubt, this was a viral pneumonia. The “fused epithelial cells” she said was strong evidence of a viral infection . He also had inflammation of the heart (myocarditis) which also can be present in viral infections . There were no neutrophils (from bacterial infection) or granulomas (from fungal infection or dead worm larvae) in the lungs . She said he could very well have had a bronchopneumonia that initially responded to antibiotics (the weekend he was dying with me ) but he responded and rallied after 24 hrs of Baytril . She said he most likely had the virus as well, and that’s what finally took him.

When I asked about worms, she said no lesions were noted. This was a bit confusing to us, since his fecal indicated he had a heavy nematode burden, and he was prescribed medicine for this. He seemed to feel bad after the doses were started; whether this was just coincidental, or a side effect of the drugs, it’s hard to tell. But it raises the question as to how to interpret a fecal and treat a sick baby accordingly, and with what wormer, I guess?

I had hoped to ask for further tests to identify the exact name of the virus, but we would have had to submit either fresh or frozen tissue. And, we would have had to have special state authorization to have PCR tests run. Our state lab is doing both human and animal testing , and she said it would not be easy to get this done.

For future reference however, it was good to learn that if an animal needs further tests, and fresh tissues aren’t able to be submitted immediately, we need to collect tissue in formalin and also have some frozen.

I guess in hindsight, it makes sense now , as to why Ringer did not respond to the stacked antibiotics. But how would anyone have known it was viral? I guess we have the luxury of simple in house tests for common cat/dog viral diseases ( Feline Leukemia, Feline Immunodeficiency Virus, Parvo) . Some are send out (Distemper, FIP) , but the clinical signs are fairly easy to recognize and tentatively diagnose.

But a laboring to breath , trying to fight for his life, baby dwarf…
It’s heartbreaking still , to know all the efforts were not going to change the outcome. But for future reference, what are some things we can learn from all this??

For ex:

Should antibiotics be discontinued after a reasonable amount of time , for fear they may cause more harm than good? How long should we assume is safe to say, “It isn’t going to work,” for a pneumatic squirrel? I can see long term meds are needed for bone, deep tissue wounds, maybe UTI…. But what about this scenario?

Could there be a safe immune system support drug/ immune stimulation medication that could help recovery for possible viral infections?

I guess bottom line is, in our dogs and cats (and I guess now COVID in people) the key to survival is supportive care ; keep the animal/person alive as best can, until the virus runs its course. Some make it, some don’t . Ringer had the best supportive care possible. Nourishment, fluids, warmth, and most of all, love.

But if any others here have dealt with ANYTHING remotely similar to this , please share your successful treatment plans , so we can try if future cases like this happen.

[Charley Chuckles]

Just my input.... in the past with Charley Chuckles I've used liquid colidol silver for wounds and a few drops in water (once in awhile not daily) for immune support. Also echinacea tablets opened and added to water, which I do add to my outdoor water bowl for my wild squirrels during bot season to help their immune system.
Personally I take daily liquid colidol silver, pine bark tablets, vitamin D, zinc, vitamin C....well also a lot more but those are my go to for building and keeping my immune system healthy.
I find many things I take can help animals as well. Just have to know the correct dosing.

Thank you for sharing the report on Ringer.