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Thread: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbaby99 View Post
    Now that she is not getting formula, she is interested in the rodent blocks. Is it ok for her to eat some of that now or should I take out all food?
    At least for tonight, it may be best to remove the blocks if it looks like Peaches is really going to eat a significant amount. When a baby just gets started with blocks they usually just play with them and may not really eat but a little bit if any. That would probably be ok but otherwise, probably resting Peaches gut except for some water to keep her hydrated would be best while the bloating is resolving. Hopefully that will occur in the next few hours! How is her belly doing and what's the poop report?
    SamtheSquirrel

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    How is Peaches doing this morning?
    SamtheSquirrel

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Peaches was 129.6g today which means we are getting somewhere with getting all the poop out. I just fed her about 3mls of water mixed with a small amount of formula. Her hydration continues to be good and she is still urinating Well.

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbaby99 View Post
    Peaches was 129.6g today which means we are getting somewhere with getting all the poop out. I just fed her about 3mls of water mixed with a small amount of formula. Her hydration continues to be good and she is still urinating Well.
    That is great! How is her belly?
    SamtheSquirrel

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheSquirrel2018 View Post
    That is great! How is her belly?
    SamtheSquirrel
    I do feel like it is going down a small amount. I just stimulated her again and got out 4 of the small green/white pellets again. I do feel like they are too hard for her to pass on her own and it is uncomfortable for her. She continues to be well hydrated and we are working our way to get the poop out. She doesnít love me stimulating her to get the poop but I think she is starting to feel some relief because she is being much more active.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbaby99 View Post
    I do feel like it is going down a small amount. I just stimulated her again and got out 4 of the small green/white pellets again. I do feel like they are too hard for her to pass on her own and it is uncomfortable for her. She continues to be well hydrated and we are working our way to get the poop out. She doesnít love me stimulating her to get the poop but I think she is starting to feel some relief because she is being much more active.
    Very good progress! It sounds as like you have the situation well in control and know what needs to be done and also what to watch for! Please keep on with the updates and please give an evening update from today. I would suggest that when you do decide to go back to formula feedings, that do not transition back to full strength formula abruptly and give what is mostly water plus a small amount of formula; maybe 1 part formula to 4 parts water at first and over a period that encompasses 4-6 feeding finally return to full formula. If it appears that she cannot tolerate this at any time you can go back to water or a less concentrated mix of formula plus water and give Peaches some more time.
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheSquirrel2018 View Post
    Very good progress! It sounds as like you have the situation well in control and know what needs to be done and also what to watch for! Please keep on with the updates and please give an evening update from today. I would suggest that when you do decide to go back to formula feedings, that do not transition back to full strength formula abruptly and give what is mostly water plus a small amount of formula; maybe 1 part formula to 4 parts water at first and over a period that encompasses 4-6 feeding finally return to full formula. If it appears that she cannot tolerate this at any time you can go back to water or a less concentrated mix of formula plus water and give Peaches some more time.
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel
    I think I am going to start giving her some more diluted formula tonight (1 part formula to 4 parts water as suggested). I wonít do a feeding overnight and will see how she is in the morning. She seems very hungry and is very interested in the rodent blocks(not sure if she is actually eating them because I just see lots of it broken up all over the cage). Her energy level is definitely back up and her hydration continues to be good. I still can feel a small amount of stool in her belly but she really doesnít like me stimulating her anymore to go to the bathroom and I donít want to continue to stress her out so hopefully she can get the last bits out herself.

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbaby99 View Post
    I think I am going to start giving her some more diluted formula tonight (1 part formula to 4 parts water as suggested). I wonít do a feeding overnight and will see how she is in the morning. She seems very hungry and is very interested in the rodent blocks(not sure if she is actually eating them because I just see lots of it broken up all over the cage). Her energy level is definitely back up and her hydration continues to be good. I still can feel a small amount of stool in her belly but she really doesnít like me stimulating her anymore to go to the bathroom and I donít want to continue to stress her out so hopefully she can get the last bits out herself.
    Your plan sounds quite appropriate. The facts that Peaches is active, urinating normally and at least biting at the blocks are all really good signs. As has been mentioned, blocks should be the first solid food a baby is offered and they should be accustomed to eating them before any other solid food should be considered. Also, the instructions for mixing the Fox Valley the night before that Spanky mentioned (and I neglected to mention-sorry!) are very important!

    From Spanky: "The formula ideally is mixed up hours before using it... overnight is what I try to do. This allows it to more thoroughly dissolve and helps make it more easily digestible. While this is more important with younger squirrels, it is still a good idea to mix it well ahead of using it. Also, never reuse formula that was warmed for feeding... only warm what will be fed and discard any formula that was warmed but not used. The mixed formula should be stored in the fridge and the powder should be stored in the freezer after opening"

    While the FV appears to mix very well immediately after adding the water, it actually takes several hours for the powder it to get fully dissolved and mixing it the night before with very warm water and then stirring it again in the morning will help ensure that the powder is fully dissolved. The reason for this recommendation (and for some reason, it is not mentioned on the FV website that I have found) is that the presence of any of powder that is not fully dissolved in the water can in a real sense harden to some extent in the stomach and lead to bloating. When initially mixing the FV powder, using very warm water will help the powder to dissolve.

    The essentials of mixing, warming, and feeding formula to baby Squirrels has been summarized on the Henrys website and these recommendations are followed by most everyone taking care of baby Squirrels. I have paraphrased this very slightly for clarity:
    Mixing, Feeding and Storing Formula
    1) When using a powdered formula; ideally, each night you would mix up the amount of formula you will need for the next day. With powdered formula, use very warm water, stir well. Place in the refrigerator.
    2) In the morning, stir the formula and draw up enough of the cold formula into a syringe for your first feeding of the day.
    3) Microwave a coffee mug of water until it is hot (but not boiling). Then dunk the filled syringe in the hot water. They will take around 30 to 60 seconds to heat up.
    4) Take out the syringe and rock it gently a couple of times to again mix the formula and to equalize the temperature within the syringe, and then test it on your wrist for proper temperature before feeding. The temperature should feel definitely warm but not hot.
    If the formula in your syringe gets too cool while feeding, re-dunk it in the hot water and then repeat Step 4.

    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Peaches was 126.5 g this morning. Last night I fed her 6mls of the diluted formula. I will feed her 6 mls of the diluted formula again this morning and continue to see how she is doing. Her stomach does seem smaller.

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbaby99 View Post
    Peaches was 126.5 g this morning. Last night I fed her 6mls of the diluted formula. I will feed her 6 mls of the diluted formula again this morning and continue to see how she is doing. Her stomach does seem smaller.
    Since Peaches is tolerating her diluted formula well and all else seems to be good, it is a reasonable plan to steadily increase the concentration of formula to extra water with each feeding today and monitor her urine output, her abdomen, her activity level, and her stooling on a regular basis and if all continues to look good, hopefully you can reach the goal of getting Peaches back to the full concentration for Standard Formula (1 part powder to 2 parts water) by the first or at the very latest, the second feeding tomorrow.

    Also please continue to mix the powder and water using very warm water, mix thoroughly and then wait 5 or 6 hours to allow time for the powder to further dissolve in the water and then stir again before giving it to Peaches. It should be stored in the refrigerator.

    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheSquirrel2018 View Post
    Since Peaches is tolerating her diluted formula well and all else seems to be good, it is a reasonable plan to steadily increase the concentration of formula to extra water with each feeding today and monitor her urine output, her abdomen, her activity level, and her stooling on a regular basis and if all continues to look good, hopefully you can reach the goal of getting Peaches back to the full concentration for Standard Formula (1 part powder to 2 parts water) by the first or at the very latest, the second feeding tomorrow.

    Also please continue to mix the powder and water using very warm water, mix thoroughly and then wait 5 or 6 hours to allow time for the powder to further dissolve in the water and then stir again before giving it to Peaches. It should be stored in the refrigerator.

    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel
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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Can't tell the size but the stool's appearance seems normal!

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheSquirrel2018 View Post
    Can't tell the size but the stool's appearance seems normal!
    Her poop is definitely smaller in size especially in terms of the width of the poop which I think is making it easier for her to pass on her own. I have continued to stimulate her to help her get the poop out but I think I should probably stop doing that at this point because she cries when I do it (don't know if she just doesn't want me to do it or maybe it's irritated). Either way, i hate hearing her cry. I am just worried she will get constipated again but I guess the only way to see if it will happen is to just let her try on her own and see if she can poop normally. I accidentally forgot to bring her formula with me this morning when I had to go in for work so she went longer than she probably should have between her first and second feeding, but I did bring the rodent blocks with me. I gave her morning feeding at around 7 and then didn't get home until 3 (mom guilt is real). I fed her again at 7:30 and was going to do one last feeding at around 12:30. I didn't want to feed her only three times today, but I did make her third feeding a smaller amount so she wouldn't be so full. I also have continued to give her some lactulose just to help things along. She will be coming back to work with me tomorrow so I will triple check that I have her formula with me this time.

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Peaches was 135g today. I do feel like her belly looks bloated to me and a bit bigger. I was able to get quite a few chunks of poop out when I stimulated her this morning. I think for now I will continue with the diluted formula because I donít think sheís ready for the full strength formula.

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Iím not sure how long youíve been giving her diluted formula, but it seems like itís been several days. I think you need to gradually adjust the formula to full strength and offer sweetened water between feedings. You can also give diluted prune juice or apple juice in place of water.

    By diluting her formula you are also diluting the nutrition sheís getting.

  16. 2 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to Mel1959:

    SamtheSquirrel2018 (11-27-2021), stepnstone (11-27-2021)

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbaby99 View Post
    Peaches was 135g today. I do feel like her belly looks bloated to me and a bit bigger. I was able to get quite a few chunks of poop out when I stimulated her this morning. I think for now I will continue with the diluted formula because I don’t think she’s ready for the full strength formula.
    From Mel: "I’m not sure how long you’ve been giving her diluted formula, but it seems like it’s been several days. I think you need to gradually adjust the formula to full strength and offer sweetened water between feedings. You can also give diluted prune juice or apple juice in place of water. By diluting her formula you are also diluting the nutrition she’s getting."

    Thanks Mel! While you were posting I was writing!

    Hi SquirrelBaby:
    Yes, Peaches may have slower than normal gastric emptying time and still tends to bloat and she may be somewhat constipated as well. All very young baby Squirrels need to be stimulated around their genital regions to urinate and defecate and it may be that Peaches may still need to have this stimulation to some extent although she beyond the age when this would ordinarily be necessary. This is from Henry's website:

    "A baby squirrel less than 5 weeks old will need to be stimulated to poop and pee. Use a warm, wet cotton ball, Q-tip, the corner of a Kleenex, or your finger, and flick lightly across the genital area. Some babies may need stimulation before and after feeding. A few may eat better if you potty them in the middle of a feeding."

    It does seem that Peaches is more tolerant of the diluted formula and this is an option only for very short-term use. One of the concerns about using diluted formula is that when it is diluted, your Squirrel is not getting the full amount of nutrients and minerals. One of the most important minerals that must be provided is Calcium. A growing Squirrel requires a relatively greater intake of Calcium because this is required for the growing bone structure and also to prevent Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD). Fox Valley 20/50 Formula does have adequate Calcium and other nutrients and the proper Calcium to phosphorous ratio and is used extensively by Squirrel rehabbers! It is usually an excellent choice of formula!

    One other option might be to feed relatively small amounts of Standard Strength formula (around 2 ml) every hour or so (Peaches would get her full quantity of formula this way if done over a period of 12 hours). I have used this method before and gradually was able to transition to regular (in peaches case it would be 4 times a day) feedings with success. Again, there are "giants" in the rehab world here on TSB and hopefully some will have some other suggestions. There is a medication that is sometimes used for rodents (and other animals and humans also) called metaclopramide that tends to increase stomach activity and can help with gastric emptying. I do not have any firsthand experience with this medication with animal care so I am not recommending this but others with more experience may be able to comment on this and make other suggestions.

    I would also recommend that you not be tempted to return to using Esbilac as Henry's has posted a recent Caution on their website about this particular formula being associated with MBD and "severe" Bloat in Squirrels in the same general age range as Peaches!:

    "ESBILAC PROBLEMS (September 2021). We are seeing 5-7 week old babies on Esbilac with MBD (calcium deficiency) and also severe bloat. If using Esbilac, please switch to the Homemade Goat Milk formula (3 tbs goat milk, 3 tbs plain yogurt, 2 tbs heavy cream, 1/2 egg yolk) or Fox Valley formula, as soon as possible. (If you can't find goat milk, double the yogurt.) For more info call 321-626-1897."

    Another question I have, especially in light of the facts that you work with a Vet and that your Squirrel was apparently injured and that was what led to her being brought to your office; does your Vet treat Squirrels or at least other rodents and has your Vet examined Peaches?

    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheSquirrel2018 View Post
    From Mel: "Iím not sure how long youíve been giving her diluted formula, but it seems like itís been several days. I think you need to gradually adjust the formula to full strength and offer sweetened water between feedings. You can also give diluted prune juice or apple juice in place of water. By diluting her formula you are also diluting the nutrition sheís getting."

    Thanks Mel! While you were posting I was writing!

    Hi SquirrelBaby:
    Yes, Peaches may have slower than normal gastric emptying time and still tends to bloat and she may be somewhat constipated as well. All very young baby Squirrels need to be stimulated around their genital regions to urinate and defecate and it may be that Peaches may still need to have this stimulation to some extent although she beyond the age when this would ordinarily be necessary. This is from Henry's website:

    "A baby squirrel less than 5 weeks old will need to be stimulated to poop and pee. Use a warm, wet cotton ball, Q-tip, the corner of a Kleenex, or your finger, and flick lightly across the genital area. Some babies may need stimulation before and after feeding. A few may eat better if you potty them in the middle of a feeding."

    It does seem that Peaches is more tolerant of the diluted formula and this is an option only for very short-term use. One of the concerns about using diluted formula is that when it is diluted, your Squirrel is not getting the full amount of nutrients and minerals. One of the most important minerals that must be provided is Calcium. A growing Squirrel requires a relatively greater intake of Calcium because this is required for the growing bone structure and also to prevent Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD). Fox Valley 20/50 Formula does have adequate Calcium and other nutrients and the proper Calcium to phosphorous ratio and is used extensively by Squirrel rehabbers! It is usually an excellent choice of formula!

    One other option might be to feed relatively small amounts of Standard Strength formula (around 2 ml) every hour or so (Peaches would get her full quantity of formula this way if done over a period of 12 hours). I have used this method before and gradually was able to transition to regular (in peaches case it would be 4 times a day) feedings with success. Again, there are "giants" in the rehab world here on TSB and hopefully some will have some other suggestions. There is a medication that is sometimes used for rodents (and other animals and humans also) called metaclopramide that tends to increase stomach activity and can help with gastric emptying. I do not have any firsthand experience with this medication with animal care so I am not recommending this but others with more experience may be able to comment on this and make other suggestions.

    I would also recommend that you not be tempted to return to using Esbilac as Henry's has posted a recent Caution on their website about this particular formula being associated with MBD and "severe" Bloat in Squirrels in the same general age range as Peaches!:

    "ESBILAC PROBLEMS (September 2021). We are seeing 5-7 week old babies on Esbilac with MBD (calcium deficiency) and also severe bloat. If using Esbilac, please switch to the Homemade Goat Milk formula (3 tbs goat milk, 3 tbs plain yogurt, 2 tbs heavy cream, 1/2 egg yolk) or Fox Valley formula, as soon as possible. (If you can't find goat milk, double the yogurt.) For more info call 321-626-1897."

    Another question I have, especially in light of the facts that you work with a Vet and that your Squirrel was apparently injured and that was what led to her being brought to your office; does your Vet treat Squirrels or at least other rodents and has your Vet examined Peaches?

    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel
    The vets I work with do not treat exocitc animals. I did have one of the vets listen to her heart and lungs which sounded fine but other than that she has not been seen by a vet.

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbaby99 View Post
    The vets I work with do not treat exocitc animals. I did have one of the vets listen to her heart and lungs which sounded fine but other than that she has not been seen by a vet.
    Thanks! My previous post was not exactly clear and I was trying to use the 2ml every hour as an example but in reality, if you did exactly that you would still have 12 hours without fluid intake and this would NOT be good. Please divide your small feedings up over a period of 17-18 hours during the daytime to give a total of your calculated intake (based upon the previous soft tummy weight of 126 grams and at 5% that would be a total daily intake of 26ml if you rounded up) and then back to no nighttime feedings for 6-7 hours at the most. Yes, it's definitely more involved but it may help allow emptying of the stomach between feedings. Are you also having a hanging water bottle available?
    SamtheSquirrel

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheSquirrel2018 View Post
    Thanks! My previous post was not exactly clear and I was trying to use the 2ml every hour as an example but in reality, if you did exactly that you would still have 12 hours without fluid intake and this would NOT be good. Please divide your small feedings up over a period of 17-18 hours during the daytime to give a total of your calculated intake (based upon the previous soft tummy weight of 126 grams and at 5% that would be a total daily intake of 26ml if you rounded up) and then back to no nighttime feedings for 6-7 hours at the most. Yes, it's definitely more involved but it may help allow emptying of the stomach between feedings. Are you also having a hanging water bottle available?
    SamtheSquirrel
    I do have a hanging bottle available and I just ordered a larger cage for her that has multiple levels. Do you think I should try and bring her to a vet. She seems fine besides her belly being full. She is pooping on her own. I have continued to give her lactulose which I think is helping her get the poop out. Her poop does seem still like hard little balls but now they are darker in color instead of when they were white/pale green.

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    Default Re: Help baby squirrel is having diarrhea

    I went back and skimmed through this thread. You stated that Peach’s weighed 119gr. on Nov. 19 and today 11/27 she’s 135gr. That’s only a weight gain of 16gr. over 8 days. Most squirrels at this age gain 5-6gr. a day. This could be a failure to thrive baby. You definitely need to get her on full strength formula….she needs the nutrients and the calories. I’d also consider ordering some Fox Valley Ultraboost and mixing it with the Fox Valley formula. It’s recommended to replace 25% of the FV formula with the Ultraboost. The water measurement is the same. I always use Ultraboost and have never had a problem with constipation or diarrhea.

    As for StS’s information about Metoclopramide….I just wanted to say that it is perfectly safe to use with rodents. My dwarf squirrel took Metoclopramide and Cisapride two times a day for many years.

  22. Serious fuzzy thank you's to Mel1959 from:

    SamtheSquirrel2018 (11-27-2021)

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