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Thread: Lethargic 8 wk EGS

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Lethargic 8 wk EGS

    Good morning!

    I have an EGS that has had yellow mucous diarrhea for a few days. He’s about 6-7 weeks old and 127 grams. He acts normal and eats fine, but his anus is getting swollen and I’ve tried everything I know to do. His sister had a little bit of diarrhea but is doing fine now. Nothing is working, so I’d love any input. Currently:
    Formula feeding every 4 hours, 4x a day, 6cc per feeding. Esbilac powdered puppy formula kept in the freezer since opening. Let sit overnight after mixing new batch and throw out unused after 2 days. 1 part formula to 2 parts water.
    Rehydration in between each feeding (1 cup water mixed with 1 tsp of sugar)
    Given a couple drops of pepto about 20 hours ago.
    Introduced Oxbow mouse and young rat rodent block about a week ago (only available brand in my store). I have removed rodent block this morning to see if this may be the cause.
    Antler piece was provided a few days ago, for chewing and calcium. Has been removed this morning as well.
    Was about to start adding veggies, but haven’t. Was unsure if this would help or worsen his upset stomach.
    Last edited by stepnstone; 09-22-2021 at 09:05 AM.

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    Default Re: EGS diarrhea

    One thing I would do is space the feeding out further. Every 4 hrs is too frequent for a 6-7 week.
    I would give the next feeding at 5 hrs and after that go to every 6 hrs. You should see the amount consumed increase with the longer interval. At 6% the amount is around 7.5 mL. At 7% the amount is a little over 8.5 mL. At this age they are usual quite ravenous and will be taking more than the 5% especially with a 6hr interval.

    The increased spacing gives time for the ‘old’ formula to move out of the stomach before the ‘new’ is added. Too frequent feedings can cause bloat and stomach issues. It might be as simple as this. Try this, if it doesn’t work we can look at other issues.

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    Default Re: EGS diarrhea

    Good morning!

    The baby seems to be a bit underweight for 6-7 weeks. Has he lost any due to the diarrhea?

    HRT hit the nail on the head - the feedings should be more spaced out and at a slightly higher rate. You would work your way up to 7% gradually to avoid any further tummy upsets. Remember that the bellies should be nice and full, but never firm after a feeding. If you haven't already, please consider ordering Fox Valley 20/50 for the babies. Your little ones would greatly benefit from the higher fat content. If you decide to order the FV, you might also consider ordering FV Ultraboost, too, which helps with weight gain.

    How much are you giving him in fluids with each hydration session?

    It is not recommended to store mixed formula for that long. Mix it up the night before after that day's last feeding. Feed from it for the next entire day and then toss the remains. Formula turns rancid faster than the speed of light - faster than we can smell it happening.

    I would not offer him anything new until the stool firms. When giving the babies anything new, do so one item at a time with a couple days in between introductions. That way, if tummy troubles present, you'll have a much better idea about the cause.

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    Default Re: EGS diarrhea

    Thank you for the help! I just finished a feeding and gave it at 5 hours instead of 4. I also increased feeding amount slightly and will continue to work up to 7%. If this should help, what time frame would you expect me to see results? Hopefully this will solve his issue. Will keep you updated!
    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    One thing I would do is space the feeding out further. Every 4 hrs is too frequent for a 6-7 week.
    I would give the next feeding at 5 hrs and after that go to every 6 hrs. You should see the amount consumed increase with the longer interval. At 6% the amount is around 7.5 mL. At 7% the amount is a little over 8.5 mL. At this age they are usual quite ravenous and will be taking more than the 5% especially with a 6hr interval.

    The increased spacing gives time for the ‘old’ formula to move out of the stomach before the ‘new’ is added. Too frequent feedings can cause bloat and stomach issues. It might be as simple as this. Try this, if it doesn’t work we can look at other issues.

  6. #5
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    Default Re: EGS diarrhea

    Thank you for the help! He normally takes about 4 ccs of rehydration solution. Sometimes a little more, but he definitely doesn’t think it’s as tasty as his formula lol. I’ll look into getting the fox valley and will start making new formula every night instead of every other night.
    Quote Originally Posted by cassgrimm View Post
    Good morning!

    The baby seems to be a bit underweight for 6-7 weeks. Has he lost any due to the diarrhea?

    HRT hit the nail on the head - the feedings should be more spaced out and at a slightly higher rate. You would work your way up to 7% gradually to avoid any further tummy upsets. Remember that the bellies should be nice and full, but never firm after a feeding. If you haven't already, please consider ordering Fox Valley 20/50 for the babies. Your little ones would greatly benefit from the higher fat content. If you decide to order the FV, you might also consider ordering FV Ultraboost, too, which helps with weight gain.

    How much are you giving him in fluids with each hydration session?

    It is not recommended to store mixed formula for that long. Mix it up the night before after that day's last feeding. Feed from it for the next entire day and then toss the remains. Formula turns rancid faster than the speed of light - faster than we can smell it happening.

    I would not offer him anything new until the stool firms. When giving the babies anything new, do so one item at a time with a couple days in between introductions. That way, if tummy troubles present, you'll have a much better idea about the cause.

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    Default Re: EGS diarrhea

    Quote Originally Posted by ae00629 View Post
    Thank you for the help! I just finished a feeding and gave it at 5 hours instead of 4. I also increased feeding amount slightly and will continue to work up to 7%. If this should help, what time frame would you expect me to see results? Hopefully this will solve his issue. Will keep you updated!
    If this is the problem, you should see results by tomorrow. Also, unless there is definitely dehydration you might want to cut back on the hydration fluid some. I know with diarrhea, dehydration is a concern but we don’t want to water log them either. Remember formula provides hydration also.

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    Default Re: EGS diarrhea

    Would you do 3 or 4 feedings a day every 6 hours?
    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    If this is the problem, you should see results by tomorrow. Also, unless there is definitely dehydration you might want to cut back on the hydration fluid some. I know with diarrhea, dehydration is a concern but we don’t want to water log them either. Remember formula provides hydration also.

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    Default Re: EGS diarrhea

    Stick with the 5 hrs until the problems resolve. I see they’re still small. I’d try to get at least 4. I usually do the first feeding pretty early and the last feeding late before bedtime. When everything is smooth sailing I do 4 feedings equally spaced every 6 hrs. I wouldn’t hydrate between unless they seem dehydrated.

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    Default Lethargic 8 wk EGS

    Posted in non-emergency thread a few days ago about my EGS that had diarrhea. I followed advice given but he took an immediate turn for the worst this morning. I woke up to him being able to move all his limbs and scoot around, but not able to pick his body up to walk around Head was also shaking. Immediately put onto a heating pad and started giving pedialyte. He slowly came back to normal and was bouncing around his cage. Gave him more pedialyte. Had to run to town for a doctors appointment. Two hours later I get home and he’s almost lifeless. Barely breathing, not moving at all. Put him on the heating pad again and start giving a few drops of pedialyte at a time. Thank the good Lord, he’s come back around. He still has diarrhea that now how the consistency of water. No idea what else to do or what could’ve possibly caused this. Any ideas? Thanks!

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    Default Re: Lethargic 8 wk EGS

    Your instincts are correct. This baby needs hydration fluid not sugar water. Unfortunately, one of the things that sugar helps with is constipation.

    The loss of fluids through diarrhea can be life threatening. Let’s get this diarrhea stopped. Are you able to get some Imodium orig is also called loperamide. Let me know and I will dose for you.
    redwuff
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    Default Re: Lethargic 8 wk EGS

    Quote Originally Posted by ae00629 View Post
    He still has diarrhea that now how the consistency of water.
    No idea what else to do or what could’ve possibly caused this. Any ideas? Thanks!
    Yes, the loss of electrolytes!
    Electrolytes are essential to a properly functioning body, they're even more so essential to a properly hydrated body.
    Electrolytes are responsible for regulating critical bodily functions. When the body becomes low on electrolytes, it impairs
    the body's functions. Diarrhea also causes the loss of
    Electrolytes.

    Quote Originally Posted by redwuff View Post
    Your instincts are correct. This baby needs hydration fluid not sugar water. Unfortunately, one of the things that sugar helps with is constipation.

    The loss of fluids through diarrhea can be life threatening. Let’s get this diarrhea stopped. Are you able to get some Imodium orig is also called loperamide. Let me know and I will dose for you.

    Exactly!!
    Step-N-Stone
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    Default Re: Lethargic 8 wk EGS

    Guys, since the diarrhea has gone on so long without stopping, do you think the baby needs treating for Coccidia or Giardia? This is WAY more than an adjusting the formula problem.

    ae00629 Does the diarrhea have a foul smell?

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    Default Re: Lethargic 8 wk EGS

    Update: getting this baby started on goats milk/heavy cream/yogurt and off of Esbilac after talking with someone over the phone and will gradually transfer to fox valley 20/50 if the diarrhea goes away on the goats milk. They believed it possibly isn’t coccidia since his sister is doing well and it’s highly contagious. He is doing a lot better now as far as acting back to normal. Thank you for all the help! Will continue to keep this post updated on his well-being!

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    Default Re: Lethargic 8 wk EGS

    Quote Originally Posted by ae00629 View Post
    Update: getting this baby started on goats milk/heavy cream/yogurt and off of Esbilac after talking with someone over the phone and will gradually transfer to fox valley 20/50 if the diarrhea goes away on the goats milk. They believed it possibly isn’t coccidia since his sister is doing well and it’s highly contagious. He is doing a lot better now as far as acting back to normal. Thank you for all the help! Will continue to keep this post updated on his well-being!
    I agree. I didn’t realize there was a sibling. With Coccidia they would definitely both be sick.

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    Default Re: Lethargic 8 wk EGS

    So are has been working really hard to keep this boy alive. Both he and his sister had diarrhea a month ago. His sisters diarrhea came under control quickly, but the boy has continued to struggle for a month with ongoing diarrhea. I think it was Mel that suggested that the babies be moved to FV 20/50. Considering that the babies have been on Esbilac, I think that is a terrific idea, and ae ordered the 20/50, which should be there soon.

    But I think there was some confusion on trying to get this diarrhea under control, and ae cut back on the formula amount given to the boy. I don’t know how much was fed, but the weight on the boy is 126g, which is alarmingly low for a 7-8 week old. Ae, could you please let us know what the weight of the girl is?

    Ae, please know, that feeding too little or too much can also be a cause of diarrhea. A lot of things causes diarrhea. But I think this guy would benefit from a diet change to 20/50 to see if Esbilac was not digestible for him. But just to get some nutrition into this guy, he is going to start on GMF and very slowly add 20/50 to the GMF.

    I am hoping that ae will keep us posted on a daily basis on how her boy is doing. Would you be willing to weigh him daily and post his weight, please?

    I did consider coccidia, but considering how contagious it is, I would think the sister would have it. If there is not an improvement with a change in diet, then we will treat with baycox.
    This boy is so compromised that he needs to be built up.

    A picture would really help us help him. Also his sister.. we are here to serve
    redwuff
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    Default Re: Lethargic 8 wk EGS

    Yes 😊 thank you for all of the amazing help. due to boy being extremely dehydrated yesterday he has dropped more weight to 120g. Girls weight is low as well at 130g, though I’m not sure why. She’s been at 6.5% of her weight in formula and they’re being fed every 5 1/2 hours. Both have been eating their rodent block really well. Boy had his first bit of GMF today with his next feeding in 1 hour. Girl will start 20/50 tomorrow as my shipment was delayed today. Will take weights of both each evening, and will also try to get pictures of them both to post here as soon as possible. I’m sure you all know they are very fast and quite rambunctious!

    Quote Originally Posted by redwuff View Post
    So are has been working really hard to keep this boy alive. Both he and his sister had diarrhea a month ago. His sisters diarrhea came under control quickly, but the boy has continued to struggle for a month with ongoing diarrhea. I think it was Mel that suggested that the babies be moved to FV 20/50. Considering that the babies have been on Esbilac, I think that is a terrific idea, and ae ordered the 20/50, which should be there soon.

    But I think there was some confusion on trying to get this diarrhea under control, and ae cut back on the formula amount given to the boy. I don’t know how much was fed, but the weight on the boy is 126g, which is alarmingly low for a 7-8 week old. Ae, could you please let us know what the weight of the girl is?

    Ae, please know, that feeding too little or too much can also be a cause of diarrhea. A lot of things causes diarrhea. But I think this guy would benefit from a diet change to 20/50 to see if Esbilac was not digestible for him. But just to get some nutrition into this guy, he is going to start on GMF and very slowly add 20/50 to the GMF.

    I am hoping that ae will keep us posted on a daily basis on how her boy is doing. Would you be willing to weigh him daily and post his weight, please?

    I did consider coccidia, but considering how contagious it is, I would think the sister would have it. If there is not an improvement with a change in diet, then we will treat with baycox.
    This boy is so compromised that he needs to be built up.

    A picture would really help us help him. Also his sister.. we are here to serve

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    Default Re: Lethargic 8 wk EGS

    Can you post a picture of the two of them? You can attach a picture by scrolling down to the little box below the message box and click on “manage attachments” and then follow the prompts.

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    Default Re: Lethargic 8 wk EGS

    Quote Originally Posted by ae00629 View Post
    Yes 😊 thank you for all of the amazing help. due to boy being extremely dehydrated yesterday he has dropped more weight to 120g. Girls weight is low as well at 130g, though I’m not sure why. She’s been at 6.5% of her weight in formula and they’re being fed every 5 1/2 hours. Both have been eating their rodent block really well. Boy had his first bit of GMF today with his next feeding in 1 hour. Girl will start 20/50 tomorrow as my shipment was delayed today. Will take weights of both each evening, and will also try to get pictures of them both to post here as soon as possible. I’m sure you all know they are very fast and quite rambunctious!
    Hi ae,

    We are holding our breaths to see if this diet change moves both of your babies toward health. Both babies are underweight but putting weight back on is easy when a formula works. If this is a formula problem it should resolve quickly, and please know there is nothing you could have done. We will help you get your babies back on track.

    There is a certain look that babies have when a formula doesn’t work. It would help us tremendously to have a picture. You should be on 100% GMF today for the boy. Our plan is for him to stay on it for 3-4 days, see if we can get his gut settled, and then go to 3/4 GMF 1/4 20/50. Stay on that for several days and build up to full strength. We don’t want them to wean but to stay on formula to get them built up to a better weight . The girl will start on 20/50 when it comes in.

    Ae please don’t let these babies have out of cage time. We do not know what kind of shape their bones are in. You do not want to take a chance on a broken bone.
    Please let us know status of diarrhea and weight gain everyday. If he still has diarrhea we need to get that stopped!

    I think these babies need names
    redwuff
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    Default Re: Lethargic 8 wk EGS

    They are staying in their cage and only being brought out for feedings. My oldest daughter has named them Chip and Belle 😂 I do believe the GMF is beginning to work as his poop is less like diarrhea and is becoming more formed and pellet-like. Pictures attached are of Chip (the boy). Belle was less than cooperative so will try to get pics of her again soon.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

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    Default Re: Lethargic 8 wk EGS

    The babies look good. Way better than I was afraid they would. Actually they are quite adorable with adorable names to go with them. Super glad to hear poop is forming. Sounds like the right track
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