ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

[Charley Chuckles]

I see on Healthy Henry's website, Esbilac is causing MBD in babies again.
Also I see not to use Foxvalley 32/40.

I bought a can Esbilac just to have on hand 'in case'
I also have Foxvalley 20/50 and I purchased ultraboost.

So what's the story🤷

[SammysMom]

I know Henry's has this posted, but in our group of 13,000 people we have not seen this at all. I'm sure I will talk to Henry's, but I want to get to the bottom of this before hysteria erupts.

[cassgrimm]

I've heard this, too, though.

Apparently, some studies were done back in 2019 and 2020 that found a link between MBD and squirrels being reared on Esbilac. From my understanding, Esbilac is still safe for the emergency finder, but should not be a rehabbers long-term choice. FV all the way. I'm definitely confused about what to do with little ones under the recommended 4 weeks of age for the 20/50, though. I hope we all have this figured out enough to form a game plan for the winter/spring season.

[Charley Chuckles]

I was confused( guess I still am 🤔 )
I found out my old unopened can of Esbilac was the bad stuff so I threw it out. Bought the new Esbilac.
I also bought the FV and ultraboost which I mentioned.

I rarely get a baby, I just want to make sure I have the proper formula/formulas ..... I just don't want to end up harming or killing a baby 😱

[cassgrimm]

I hear you!

It's like we can't get through more than a year or two without a potential formula disaster. It stresses me out. 😪

[HRT4SQRLS]

I just sent a message to a opposum rehabber that I became friends with during the last disaster.
She was the first person that made me realize that …’Houston, we have problem’.

She asked a question on FaceBook. “Has anyone seen baby squirrels with MBD while on Esbilac?”
My head almost exploded because YES, we had seen several babies with severe MBD with X-ray confirmation of broken bones. She was an experienced possie rehabber and had 13 babies with MBD. The other possie rehabber using FoxValley were not having the same problem. I immediately knew there was a problem.

I will let you know what she says as opposum are even more susceptible to MBD than squirrels. They would see it first but frankly, I doubt they ever went back to Esbilac.

[CritterMom]

I just sent a message to a opposum rehabber that I became friends with during the last disaster.
She was the first person that made me realize that …’Houston, we have problem’.

She asked a question on FaceBook. “Has anyone seen baby squirrels with MBD while on Esbilac?”
My head almost exploded because YES, we had seen several babies with severe MBD with X-ray confirmation of broken bones. She was an experienced possie rehabber and had 13 babies with MBD. The other possie rehabber using FoxValley were not having the same problem. I immediately knew there was a problem.

I will let you know what she says as opposum are even more susceptible to MBD than squirrels. They would see it first but frankly, I doubt they ever went back to Esbilac.

OMG. I am gonna run away.

[CritterMom]

Do we know whether the FV 32/40 is still thinly disguised cement? I hate that the only way to tell is to sacrifice babies...

[redwuff]

I have to say that I will never use a pet ag product. Never. Ever.

I met a person a few months back who is a neo-natal kitten Rehabber. She told me that KMR was killing kittens last year and pet ag made no response to the community.

I use GMF and start adding fv20/50 to it at 2.5 weeks, slowly increasing it till 3.5-4 wk baby is on full strength.

[Charley Chuckles]

Do we know whether the FV 32/40 is still thinly disguised cement? I hate that the only way to tell is to sacrifice babies...

I'm not sure what the issue is/was with 32/40 and why it caused this, however I know of someone who uses it successfully still. I was told the particles are too big but she uses, I'm guessing a coffee grinder, until it's pulverized , then once mixed let's it sit in fridge ( not sure for how long)
Me I'd rather use the 20/50 and add the ultraboost as recommended.

It's been 4 years since I raised any and I'm certain I used Esbilac, but knowing all this now I will use FV 👍

[HRT4SQRLS]

I have to say that I will never use a pet ag product. Never. Ever.

I met a person a few months back who is a neo-natal kitten Rehabber. She told me that KMR was killing kittens last year and pet ag made no response to the community.

I use GMF and start adding fv20/50 to it at 2.5 weeks, slowly increasing it till 3.5-4 wk baby is on full strength.

I totally agree! They will never get another penny from me either. I didn’t think of transitioning tiny babies to FV 20:50 from GMF when very young. That’s a good idea. I had a 3 week old on straight FV 20:50 that did great so I’m totally onboard with transitioning from GMF to FV20:50.

Actually, I was torn about returning to TSB after my health problems due to the my strong disgust with Esbilac and not knowing what to recommend to newbies. It’s such a dilemma. Do I recommend something that I wouldn’t personally use or do you go rouge!

[Charley Chuckles]

I totally agree! They will never get another penny from me either. I didn’t think of transitioning tiny babies to FV 20:50 from GMF when very young. That’s a good idea. I had a 3 week old on straight FV 20:50 that did great so I’m totally onboard with transitioning from GMF to FV20:50.

Actually, I was torn about returning to TSB after my health problems due to the my strong disgust with Esbilac and not knowing what to recommend to newbies. It’s such a dilemma. Do I recommend something that I wouldn’t personally use or do you go rouge!

Patti I'm so glad to see you here again!
You've been greatly missed

[cassgrimm]

I use GMF and start adding fv20/50 to it at 2.5 weeks, slowly increasing it till 3.5-4 wk baby is on full strength.

Thank you for this. I'm so over the tumultuous issues with Pet Ag. The dust hasn't even settled from the last hellfire Esbilac caused and here I am stressing out over next season when this one hasn't even ended yet.

[Charley Chuckles]

I have to say that I will never use a pet ag product. Never. Ever.

I met a person a few months back who is a neo-natal kitten Rehabber. She told me that KMR was killing kittens last year and pet ag made no response to the community.

I use GMF and start adding fv20/50 to it at 2.5 weeks, slowly increasing it till 3.5-4 wk baby is on full strength.

I've seen different GMF, could you put here exactly what is in the GMF you use, and can it be used on a pinky? I see some say to add heavy whipping cream, some says not to 🤔
Once on the FV 20/50 do you recommend adding the ultraboost and for how long?

I'm sorry about all the questions but I keep reading so many different formulas that I'm just not sure 🤷
I like to have these recipes in my phone, and written down because it's to late to look once I get a baby👍
Thank you so much in advance

[redwuff]

Hi Abby

I use the GMF that came from Jackie quite a while ago. It is 3 parts goat milk (I use fresh (can also freeze into smaller batches)), 1 .5 parts heavy whipping creme (I did up the creme cos of lower calories) and 1 part full fat yogurt. In 2019 Leigh broke this formula down and it is sub par nutritionally. But it does well enough to keep pinkies alive and growing. Then at 2.5 weeks I add 1/4 strength FV 20/50 and very slowly over 1.5 weeks increase % of FV until the babies are on 100% at 3.5 weeks. I’ve done this for several years and have been happy with it.

I have never fed ultraboost, I feed 5-7% and have plenty fat babies. Around 6 weeks I put Mazuri block in with and when I cut back feeding from 5 to 4 times, they really start eating the block in earnest.

Everyone you talk to is going to have a formula that works for them . Find something you like and stick to it.

[Charley Chuckles]

Hi Abby

I use the GMF that came from Jackie quite a while ago. It is 3 parts goat milk (I use fresh (can also freeze into smaller batches)), 1 .5 parts heavy whipping creme (I did up the creme cos of lower calories) and 1 part full fat yogurt. In 2019 Leigh broke this formula down and it is sub par nutritionally. But it does well enough to keep pinkies alive and growing. Then at 2.5 weeks I add 1/4 strength FV 20/50 and very slowly over 1.5 weeks increase % of FV until the babies are on 100% at 3.5 weeks. I’ve done this for several years and have been happy with it.

I have never fed ultraboost, I feed 5-7% and have plenty fat babies. Around 6 weeks I put Mazuri block in with and when I cut back feeding from 5 to 4 times, they really start eating the block in earnest.

Everyone you talk to is going to have a formula that works for them . Find something you like and stick to it.

Thank you so much I so appreciate it, I get so lost in formulas. I figure if I have a game plan I probably won't get any babies 😉 I always want to be prepared however👍
Miss you when you coming down to Florida 😘

[SammysMom]

Ok, I admin a group with KCassidy and another rehanber on FB. We started two years ago about the time the sh1t hit the fan. We currently have 13,000 members and we are recommending a formula blend of FV 32/40, Zoologic 33/40 or Esbilac Puppy with heavy cream. However, we do have a number of members who have been using Esbilac either alone or with HWC successfully. If I'm not mistaken, Island Rehabber uses Esbilac without issues.
I would not go crazy hitting the panic button until we see some xrays of these babies to be sure it is mbd.

[HRT4SQRLS]

I heard back from my friend, the possie rehabber. She was very involved with the last Esbilac incident due to the huge impact it had on her. She had not read the alert on Henry’s Pets site BUT a couple weeks ago she did receive a call from Shirley Casey regarding reports that sounded eerily similar to the events of 2 years ago. She also said there were also reports from other possie rehabbers about problems with both Esbilac and GME. She herself never went back to Esbilac so she can’t report first hand on this.

Let’s just say that these concerns should not be dismissed. This is exactly how it started before.

[cassgrimm]

Got déjà vu, anyone?

Ugh. Pet Ag is giving me a serious case of whiplash.

[SquirrelyDan]

FV 32/40 is a killer, too. 3 fox squirrels and 1 opossum that didn’t need to die. They were getting “expert” veterinary (me) care, except fir the fact that I didn’t realize I was poisoning them. I’ve never had an issue with goat’s milk Esbilac (but now I’m worried), and I’ve never used plain Esbilac for anything but a puppy.