Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25

Thread: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Daytona Beach, FL.
    Posts
    9,594
    Thanked: 1062

    Question ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    I see on Healthy Henry's website, Esbilac is causing MBD in babies again.
    Also I see not to use Foxvalley 32/40.

    I bought a can Esbilac just to have on hand 'in case'
    I also have Foxvalley 20/50 and I purchased ultraboost.

    So what's the story🤷
    Charley Chuckles gone from my arms FOREVER in my heart 8/14/04-3/7/13
    Simon, our time was too short together, but you gave us so much love, be with CC now 3/7/14


    The "CHARLEY CHUCKLES MEMORIAL RAIL TOUR" leaves the station choo chooo
    *Deland,FL. *Washington DC *Boston (Back Bay) *Boston (North Station) *Wells,Maine *Albany,NY *New York (Penn Station) *Back to Deland FL. "July 1- July 22" 2013

    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...RIAL-RAIL-TOUR Check it out here
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...OW-A-NEW-MOMMY!!!!!
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...RAINBOW-BRIDGE
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...e-called-Simon
    charleychuckles1@gmail.com

    I'm not poof reading any of this

  2. 2 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to Charley Chuckles:

    HRT4SQRLS (09-08-2021), Nancy in New York (09-09-2021)

  3. #2
    SammysMom's Avatar
    SammysMom is offline Administrator, Conn. Licensed Wildlife Rehabilitator
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    31,331
    Thanked: 13306

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    I know Henry's has this posted, but in our group of 13,000 people we have not seen this at all. I'm sure I will talk to Henry's, but I want to get to the bottom of this before hysteria erupts.
    Squirrels, squirrels and more squirrels....
    Prayers for the people who make this a better world...
    savesquirrels@sbcglobal.net



  4. 3 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to SammysMom:

    Grinderhead (09-08-2021), Nancy in New York (09-09-2021), stepnstone (09-08-2021)

  5. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    61
    Thanked: 48

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    I've heard this, too, though.

    Apparently, some studies were done back in 2019 and 2020 that found a link between MBD and squirrels being reared on Esbilac. From my understanding, Esbilac is still safe for the emergency finder, but should not be a rehabbers long-term choice. FV all the way. I'm definitely confused about what to do with little ones under the recommended 4 weeks of age for the 20/50, though. I hope we all have this figured out enough to form a game plan for the winter/spring season.


  6. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Daytona Beach, FL.
    Posts
    9,594
    Thanked: 1062

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    I was confused( guess I still am 🤔 )
    I found out my old unopened can of Esbilac was the bad stuff so I threw it out. Bought the new Esbilac.
    I also bought the FV and ultraboost which I mentioned.

    I rarely get a baby, I just want to make sure I have the proper formula/formulas ..... I just don't want to end up harming or killing a baby 😱
    Charley Chuckles gone from my arms FOREVER in my heart 8/14/04-3/7/13
    Simon, our time was too short together, but you gave us so much love, be with CC now 3/7/14


    The "CHARLEY CHUCKLES MEMORIAL RAIL TOUR" leaves the station choo chooo
    *Deland,FL. *Washington DC *Boston (Back Bay) *Boston (North Station) *Wells,Maine *Albany,NY *New York (Penn Station) *Back to Deland FL. "July 1- July 22" 2013

    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...RIAL-RAIL-TOUR Check it out here
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...OW-A-NEW-MOMMY!!!!!
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...RAINBOW-BRIDGE
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...e-called-Simon
    charleychuckles1@gmail.com

    I'm not poof reading any of this

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    61
    Thanked: 48

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    I hear you!

    It's like we can't get through more than a year or two without a potential formula disaster. It stresses me out. 😪

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    11,423
    Thanked: 12720

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    I just sent a message to a opposum rehabber that I became friends with during the last disaster.
    She was the first person that made me realize that ÖíHouston, we have problemí.

    She asked a question on FaceBook. ďHas anyone seen baby squirrels with MBD while on Esbilac?Ē
    My head almost exploded because YES, we had seen several babies with severe MBD with X-ray confirmation of broken bones. She was an experienced possie rehabber and had 13 babies with MBD. The other possie rehabber using FoxValley were not having the same problem. I immediately knew there was a problem.

    I will let you know what she says as opposum are even more susceptible to MBD than squirrels. They would see it first but frankly, I doubt they ever went back to Esbilac.

  9. Serious fuzzy thank you's to HRT4SQRLS from:

    Nancy in New York (09-09-2021)

  10. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    17,551
    Thanked: 7019

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    I just sent a message to a opposum rehabber that I became friends with during the last disaster.
    She was the first person that made me realize that ÖíHouston, we have problemí.

    She asked a question on FaceBook. ďHas anyone seen baby squirrels with MBD while on Esbilac?Ē
    My head almost exploded because YES, we had seen several babies with severe MBD with X-ray confirmation of broken bones. She was an experienced possie rehabber and had 13 babies with MBD. The other possie rehabber using FoxValley were not having the same problem. I immediately knew there was a problem.

    I will let you know what she says as opposum are even more susceptible to MBD than squirrels. They would see it first but frankly, I doubt they ever went back to Esbilac.
    OMG. I am gonna run away.

  11. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    17,551
    Thanked: 7019

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    Do we know whether the FV 32/40 is still thinly disguised cement? I hate that the only way to tell is to sacrifice babies...

  12. 2 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to CritterMom:

    HRT4SQRLS (09-08-2021), redwuff (09-08-2021)

  13. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    eastcoast
    Posts
    4,806
    Thanked: 5563

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    I have to say that I will never use a pet ag product. Never. Ever.

    I met a person a few months back who is a neo-natal kitten Rehabber. She told me that KMR was killing kittens last year and pet ag made no response to the community.

    I use GMF and start adding fv20/50 to it at 2.5 weeks, slowly increasing it till 3.5-4 wk baby is on full strength.
    redwuff
    State Licensed
    Master Wildlife Rehabilitator

  14. 2 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to redwuff:

    cassgrimm (09-08-2021), TubeDriver (09-09-2021)

  15. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Daytona Beach, FL.
    Posts
    9,594
    Thanked: 1062

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    Do we know whether the FV 32/40 is still thinly disguised cement? I hate that the only way to tell is to sacrifice babies...
    I'm not sure what the issue is/was with 32/40 and why it caused this, however I know of someone who uses it successfully still. I was told the particles are too big but she uses, I'm guessing a coffee grinder, until it's pulverized , then once mixed let's it sit in fridge ( not sure for how long)
    Me I'd rather use the 20/50 and add the ultraboost as recommended.

    It's been 4 years since I raised any and I'm certain I used Esbilac, but knowing all this now I will use FV 👍
    Charley Chuckles gone from my arms FOREVER in my heart 8/14/04-3/7/13
    Simon, our time was too short together, but you gave us so much love, be with CC now 3/7/14


    The "CHARLEY CHUCKLES MEMORIAL RAIL TOUR" leaves the station choo chooo
    *Deland,FL. *Washington DC *Boston (Back Bay) *Boston (North Station) *Wells,Maine *Albany,NY *New York (Penn Station) *Back to Deland FL. "July 1- July 22" 2013

    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...RIAL-RAIL-TOUR Check it out here
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...OW-A-NEW-MOMMY!!!!!
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...RAINBOW-BRIDGE
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...e-called-Simon
    charleychuckles1@gmail.com

    I'm not poof reading any of this

  16. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    11,423
    Thanked: 12720

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    Quote Originally Posted by redwuff View Post
    I have to say that I will never use a pet ag product. Never. Ever.

    I met a person a few months back who is a neo-natal kitten Rehabber. She told me that KMR was killing kittens last year and pet ag made no response to the community.

    I use GMF and start adding fv20/50 to it at 2.5 weeks, slowly increasing it till 3.5-4 wk baby is on full strength.
    I totally agree! They will never get another penny from me either. I didnít think of transitioning tiny babies to FV 20:50 from GMF when very young. Thatís a good idea. I had a 3 week old on straight FV 20:50 that did great so Iím totally onboard with transitioning from GMF to FV20:50.

    Actually, I was torn about returning to TSB after my health problems due to the my strong disgust with Esbilac and not knowing what to recommend to newbies. Itís such a dilemma. Do I recommend something that I wouldnít personally use or do you go rouge!

  17. 3 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to HRT4SQRLS:

    cassgrimm (09-08-2021), Mel1959 (09-08-2021), redwuff (09-08-2021)

  18. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Daytona Beach, FL.
    Posts
    9,594
    Thanked: 1062

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    I totally agree! They will never get another penny from me either. I didnít think of transitioning tiny babies to FV 20:50 from GMF when very young. Thatís a good idea. I had a 3 week old on straight FV 20:50 that did great so Iím totally onboard with transitioning from GMF to FV20:50.

    Actually, I was torn about returning to TSB after my health problems due to the my strong disgust with Esbilac and not knowing what to recommend to newbies. Itís such a dilemma. Do I recommend something that I wouldnít personally use or do you go rouge!
    Patti I'm so glad to see you here again!
    You've been greatly missed
    Charley Chuckles gone from my arms FOREVER in my heart 8/14/04-3/7/13
    Simon, our time was too short together, but you gave us so much love, be with CC now 3/7/14


    The "CHARLEY CHUCKLES MEMORIAL RAIL TOUR" leaves the station choo chooo
    *Deland,FL. *Washington DC *Boston (Back Bay) *Boston (North Station) *Wells,Maine *Albany,NY *New York (Penn Station) *Back to Deland FL. "July 1- July 22" 2013

    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...RIAL-RAIL-TOUR Check it out here
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...OW-A-NEW-MOMMY!!!!!
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...RAINBOW-BRIDGE
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...e-called-Simon
    charleychuckles1@gmail.com

    I'm not poof reading any of this

  19. Serious fuzzy thank you's to Charley Chuckles from:

    HRT4SQRLS (09-08-2021)

  20. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    61
    Thanked: 48

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    Quote Originally Posted by redwuff View Post
    I use GMF and start adding fv20/50 to it at 2.5 weeks, slowly increasing it till 3.5-4 wk baby is on full strength.
    Thank you for this. I'm so over the tumultuous issues with Pet Ag. The dust hasn't even settled from the last hellfire Esbilac caused and here I am stressing out over next season when this one hasn't even ended yet.

  21. Serious fuzzy thank you's to cassgrimm from:

    redwuff (09-08-2021)

  22. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Daytona Beach, FL.
    Posts
    9,594
    Thanked: 1062

    Question Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    Quote Originally Posted by redwuff View Post
    I have to say that I will never use a pet ag product. Never. Ever.

    I met a person a few months back who is a neo-natal kitten Rehabber. She told me that KMR was killing kittens last year and pet ag made no response to the community.

    I use GMF and start adding fv20/50 to it at 2.5 weeks, slowly increasing it till 3.5-4 wk baby is on full strength.
    I've seen different GMF, could you put here exactly what is in the GMF you use, and can it be used on a pinky? I see some say to add heavy whipping cream, some says not to 🤔
    Once on the FV 20/50 do you recommend adding the ultraboost and for how long?

    I'm sorry about all the questions but I keep reading so many different formulas that I'm just not sure 🤷
    I like to have these recipes in my phone, and written down because it's to late to look once I get a baby👍
    Thank you so much in advance
    Charley Chuckles gone from my arms FOREVER in my heart 8/14/04-3/7/13
    Simon, our time was too short together, but you gave us so much love, be with CC now 3/7/14


    The "CHARLEY CHUCKLES MEMORIAL RAIL TOUR" leaves the station choo chooo
    *Deland,FL. *Washington DC *Boston (Back Bay) *Boston (North Station) *Wells,Maine *Albany,NY *New York (Penn Station) *Back to Deland FL. "July 1- July 22" 2013

    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...RIAL-RAIL-TOUR Check it out here
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...OW-A-NEW-MOMMY!!!!!
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...RAINBOW-BRIDGE
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...e-called-Simon
    charleychuckles1@gmail.com

    I'm not poof reading any of this

  23. Serious fuzzy thank you's to Charley Chuckles from:

    redwuff (09-08-2021)

  24. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    eastcoast
    Posts
    4,806
    Thanked: 5563

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    Hi Abby

    I use the GMF that came from Jackie quite a while ago. It is 3 parts goat milk (I use fresh (can also freeze into smaller batches)), 1 .5 parts heavy whipping creme (I did up the creme cos of lower calories) and 1 part full fat yogurt. In 2019 Leigh broke this formula down and it is sub par nutritionally. But it does well enough to keep pinkies alive and growing. Then at 2.5 weeks I add 1/4 strength FV 20/50 and very slowly over 1.5 weeks increase % of FV until the babies are on 100% at 3.5 weeks. I’ve done this for several years and have been happy with it.

    I have never fed ultraboost, I feed 5-7% and have plenty fat babies. Around 6 weeks I put Mazuri block in with and when I cut back feeding from 5 to 4 times, they really start eating the block in earnest.

    Everyone you talk to is going to have a formula that works for them . Find something you like and stick to it.
    redwuff
    State Licensed
    Master Wildlife Rehabilitator

  25. Serious fuzzy thank you's to redwuff from:

    applecrisped (09-08-2021)

  26. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Daytona Beach, FL.
    Posts
    9,594
    Thanked: 1062

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    Quote Originally Posted by redwuff View Post
    Hi Abby

    I use the GMF that came from Jackie quite a while ago. It is 3 parts goat milk (I use fresh (can also freeze into smaller batches)), 1 .5 parts heavy whipping creme (I did up the creme cos of lower calories) and 1 part full fat yogurt. In 2019 Leigh broke this formula down and it is sub par nutritionally. But it does well enough to keep pinkies alive and growing. Then at 2.5 weeks I add 1/4 strength FV 20/50 and very slowly over 1.5 weeks increase % of FV until the babies are on 100% at 3.5 weeks. Iíve done this for several years and have been happy with it.

    I have never fed ultraboost, I feed 5-7% and have plenty fat babies. Around 6 weeks I put Mazuri block in with and when I cut back feeding from 5 to 4 times, they really start eating the block in earnest.

    Everyone you talk to is going to have a formula that works for them . Find something you like and stick to it.
    Thank you so much I so appreciate it, I get so lost in formulas. I figure if I have a game plan I probably won't get any babies 😉 I always want to be prepared however👍
    Miss you when you coming down to Florida 😘
    Charley Chuckles gone from my arms FOREVER in my heart 8/14/04-3/7/13
    Simon, our time was too short together, but you gave us so much love, be with CC now 3/7/14


    The "CHARLEY CHUCKLES MEMORIAL RAIL TOUR" leaves the station choo chooo
    *Deland,FL. *Washington DC *Boston (Back Bay) *Boston (North Station) *Wells,Maine *Albany,NY *New York (Penn Station) *Back to Deland FL. "July 1- July 22" 2013

    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...RIAL-RAIL-TOUR Check it out here
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...OW-A-NEW-MOMMY!!!!!
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...RAINBOW-BRIDGE
    http://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/s...e-called-Simon
    charleychuckles1@gmail.com

    I'm not poof reading any of this

  27. #17
    SammysMom's Avatar
    SammysMom is offline Administrator, Conn. Licensed Wildlife Rehabilitator
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    31,331
    Thanked: 13306

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    Ok, I admin a group with KCassidy and another rehanber on FB. We started two years ago about the time the sh1t hit the fan. We currently have 13,000 members and we are recommending a formula blend of FV 32/40, Zoologic 33/40 or Esbilac Puppy with heavy cream. However, we do have a number of members who have been using Esbilac either alone or with HWC successfully. If I'm not mistaken, Island Rehabber uses Esbilac without issues.
    I would not go crazy hitting the panic button until we see some xrays of these babies to be sure it is mbd.
    Squirrels, squirrels and more squirrels....
    Prayers for the people who make this a better world...
    savesquirrels@sbcglobal.net



  28. Serious fuzzy thank you's to SammysMom from:

    Nancy in New York (09-16-2021)

  29. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    11,423
    Thanked: 12720

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    I heard back from my friend, the possie rehabber. She was very involved with the last Esbilac incident due to the huge impact it had on her. She had not read the alert on Henryís Pets site BUT a couple weeks ago she did receive a call from Shirley Casey regarding reports that sounded eerily similar to the events of 2 years ago. She also said there were also reports from other possie rehabbers about problems with both Esbilac and GME. She herself never went back to Esbilac so she canít report first hand on this.

    Letís just say that these concerns should not be dismissed. This is exactly how it started before.

  30. 3 TSBers pass along the fuzzy thanks to HRT4SQRLS:

    cassgrimm (09-09-2021), Mel1959 (09-16-2021), redwuff (09-09-2021)

  31. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    61
    Thanked: 48

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    Got dťjŗ vu, anyone?

    Ugh. Pet Ag is giving me a serious case of whiplash.

  32. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    22
    Thanked: 10

    Default Re: ESBILAC PROBLEM AGAIN???

    FV 32/40 is a killer, too. 3 fox squirrels and 1 opossum that didnít need to die. They were getting ďexpertĒ veterinary (me) care, except fir the fact that I didnít realize I was poisoning them. Iíve never had an issue with goatís milk Esbilac (but now Iím worried), and Iíve never used plain Esbilac for anything but a puppy.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •