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Thread: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

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    Default Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    Hey guys,

    I'm still trying to get my pet squirrel rocket to a squirrel vet in the area. In the mean time, I actually did a walk in at my local vet who has treated different animals and squirrels just a few times. He didnt run any tests but he did give me an antifungal ointment and an antibiotic. The ointment is animax/dermalone to be applied twice daily and the antibiotic is SMZ/ Liquid susp 240mg/5ml to be given 0.1 ml by mouth twice a day. Are these good for squirrels with a possible topical infection and are they safe doses?

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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDane View Post
    Hey guys,

    I'm still trying to get my pet squirrel rocket to a squirrel vet in the area. In the mean time, I actually did a walk in at my local vet who has treated different animals and squirrels just a few times. He didnt run any tests but he did give me an antifungal ointment and an antibiotic. The ointment is animax/dermalone to be applied twice daily and the antibiotic is SMZ/ Liquid susp 240mg/5ml to be given 0.1 ml by mouth twice a day. Are these good for squirrels with a possible topical infection and are they safe doses?
    What is weight of squirrel in question?
    Step-N-Stone
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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    Hello. We actually didn't weigh him at the vet. He is a thin to normal size adult grey squirrel. Here are more pictures from today and tonight ..
    Attached Images Attached Images   

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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDane View Post
    Hey guys,

    I'm still trying to get my pet squirrel rocket to a squirrel vet in the area. In the mean time, I actually did a walk in at my local vet who has treated different animals and squirrels just a few times. He didnt run any tests but he did give me an antifungal ointment and an antibiotic. The ointment is animax/dermalone to be applied twice daily and the antibiotic is SMZ/ Liquid susp 240mg/5ml to be given 0.1 ml by mouth twice a day. Are these good for squirrels with a possible topical infection and are they safe doses?
    SMZ/TMP is a good broad-spectrum antibiotic for skin infections, it is said be slow acting.
    The dose could be considered average for an adult squirrel, the (SMZ/ Liquid susp 240mg/5ml) seems a little wack to me according to strength in WMB.

    If another comes on and can check the above, great.
    In the meantime I'll try to get some clarification and get back to you.



    Step-N-Stone
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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    Thank you, I really do appreciate that. I definitely want to make sure I am using the right stuff and at the right dosage before I give him anything. I'm not positive that my local vet has alot of experience with squirrels in particular.

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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    David, I’m going to send you the calculated dose for a 1 pound squirrel. That’s pretty average for FL adult grey squirrel. The 0.1mL is definitely on the low side.

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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDane View Post
    Thank you, I really do appreciate that. I definitely want to make sure I am using the right stuff and at the right dosage before I give him anything. I'm not positive that my local vet has alot of experience with squirrels in particular.
    Ok, here is the consensus...
    The medication mg/ml is correct. However, Clavamox was suggested instead of the SMZ.
    An average adult would weigh closer to 650 grams, the dose would be point three (.3)
    Also suggested, flush the area with *Betadine *Diluted to a weak tea, let dry before
    using ointment.


    I wouldn't hesitate getting him started on what you got.
    I would definitely get and use the betadine.
    As far as increasing dose, this is why it's important to know the weight.
    That said, if it were mine, I would.
    Step-N-Stone
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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by stepnstone View Post
    Ok, here is the consensus...
    The medication mg/ml is correct. However, Clavamox was suggested instead of the SMZ.
    An average adult would weigh closer to 650 grams, the dose would be point three (.3)
    Also suggested, flush the area with *Betadine *Diluted to a weak tea, let dry before
    using ointment.


    I wouldn't hesitate getting him started on what you got.
    I would definitely get and use the betadine.
    As far as increasing dose, this is why it's important to know the weight.
    That said, if it were mine, I would.
    Thanks for all of that information. Very much appreciated. Should I start him on the SMZ tonight, or wait and try to get my local vet to give me Clavamox in the morning?? And if so, what would the doage for Clavamox be?

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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    Also, when I woke him up him give him this ointment, he had this white discharge in one of his eyes. It's gone now but he seems to be winking with that eye more??

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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    Hi:
    1) I would like to make a suggestion in regard to the Animax (dermalone is a generic but the same as Animax. I had thought that the brand Animax was discontinued but maybe not). Dermalone contains an antifungal medication (Nystatin), an antibiotic in the Streptomycin family, a steroid (triamcinolone), and Neomycin (an antibiotic in the aminoglycoside family). The more medications used to treat a condition, the more likely there will be adverse effects or an allergic reaction. There is no evidence to suggest that your Squirrel has a fungal infection and the photos do not support this. Further, when an antifungal medication is used to treat a true fungal infection and it is accompanied by a steroid, the steroid can suppress an accompanying inflammatory component of the fungal infection and it may become difficult to measure the effectiveness of the antifungal medication itself. Another major concern I have with this medication and any other topical medication containing Neomycin (such as Neosporin, Triple antibiotic, and others) is that of all of the topical antibiotics, Neomycin is probably the one most likely to cause a skin reaction. A skin reaction from Neomycin can appear as if the original condition has worsened or a new infection has developed. Another concern about using any medication containing an aminoglycoside antibiotic such as Neomycin is that the animal often will lick injured or involved skin and then ingest the Neomycin which can effect hearing and kidney function and potentially cause other problems. I would suggest not using the Dermalone at this time.

    2) As to your other question about whether or not to start the antibiotic you have; StepNStone did recommend "I wouldn't hesitate getting him started on what you got" and I believe most of us would do similar while awaiting other antibiotics as being on a potentially effective antibiotic is key right at the moment because even if it may not the very best choice, SMz/TMP is still a very good antibiotic and you may gain some benefit for your Squirrel by using it rather than not use any antibiotic while awaiting a prescription for Clavamox.
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheSquirrel2018 View Post
    Hi:
    1) I would like to make a suggestion in regard to the Animax (dermalone is a generic but the same as Animax. I had thought that the brand Animax was discontinued but maybe not). Dermalone contains an antifungal medication (Nystatin), an antibiotic in the Streptomycin family, a steroid (triamcinolone), and Neomycin (an antibiotic in the aminoglycoside family). The more medications used to treat a condition, the more likely there will be adverse effects or an allergic reaction. There is no evidence to suggest that your Squirrel has a fungal infection and the photos do not support this. Further, when an antifungal medication is used to treat a true fungal infection and it is accompanied by a steroid, the steroid can suppress an accompanying inflammatory component of the fungal infection and it may become difficult to measure the effectiveness of the antifungal medication itself. Another major concern I have with this medication and any other topical medication containing Neomycin (such as Neosporin, Triple antibiotic, and others) is that of all of the topical antibiotics, Neomycin is probably the one most likely to cause a skin reaction. A skin reaction from Neomycin can appear as if the original condition has worsened or a new infection has developed. Another concern about using any medication containing an aminoglycoside antibiotic such as Neomycin is that the animal often will lick injured or involved skin and then ingest the Neomycin which can effect hearing and kidney function and potentially cause other problems. I would suggest not using the Dermalone at this time.

    2) As to your other question about whether or not to start the antibiotic you have; StepNStone did recommend "I wouldn't hesitate getting him started on what you got" and I believe most of us would do similar while awaiting other antibiotics as being on a potentially effective antibiotic is key right at the moment because even if it may not the very best choice, SMz/TMP is still a very good antibiotic and you may gain some benefit for your Squirrel by using it rather than not use any antibiotic while awaiting a prescription for Clavamox.
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel
    Thanks for the reply. I think it already dried and he licked it some. After reading your message I quickly wiped it clean with water. Will the one application cause the problems you are describing??

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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    No it won't! Please do not worry about it! You did NO harm by applying the Dermalone! The "take-home" message however is that medication that is applied to the skin of animals can only rarely be considered "unlickable." For that reason the potential adverse effects are not limited to the skin and possible systemic effects from ingestion of the medication also need to be considered whenever a topical preparation is used.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDane View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I think it already dried and he licked it some. After reading your message I quickly wiped it clean with water. Will the one application cause the problems you are describing??

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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    David, I’m going to send you the calculated dose for a 1 pound squirrel. That’s pretty average for FL adult grey squirrel. The 0.1mL is definitely on the low side.
    Thank you Hrt.
    Not only did I fail to notice where squirrel is located which can make a size/weight difference,
    I was hoping for your opinion on the med.
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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by stepnstone View Post

    I was hoping for your opinion on the med.
    Step, I think the SMZ-TMP is an excellent choice for this particular issue. I can’t say definitely if this is an infection but if it goes down hill it certainly will be an infection. If it started as a sting or ant bite it might have been inflammation. It is looking a little oozy so I wouldn’t hesitate to start the antibiotic.

    In this location on the arm, the SMZ-TMP is very good. It has the added benefit of being effective against MRSA. If the wound was on the head, neck or face… Clamamoz would definitely be better. On the head, neck or face you want to target oral organisms because of proximity to the mucous membranes of the mouth. The mouth is loaded with bacteria including both aerobic and anaerobic. These bacteria are often involved in infections of the head, neck, face. SMZ-TMP doesn’t have coverage for anaerobes. Clavamox does. Clavamox is a beta lactam antibiotic or a “penicillin” type antibiotic. You always want to use a beta lactam antibiotic when treating any infection near the mouth because the mouth is loaded with Streptococcus and anaerobes. If you were having a dental procedure and you have a heart issue, you would always be prescribed a beta lactam antibiotic like penicillin or amoxicillin. The reason is because it best targets the flora of mouth.

    Sorry, this was probably TMI but it explains why one antibiotic would be chosen over another.
    SMZ-TMP is a good antibiotic for this but if he continues to lick the wound … ‘mouth organisms’ … it could get more complicated.

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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    He is chewing it because as soon as healing begins, so does itching. Anyone thing some Benadryl to block the histamine release from healing might be a good idea?

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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    Sorry, this was probably TMI but it explains why one antibiotic would be chosen over another.
    Not at all!
    I can certinally appreciate a detailed explanation.
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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    Step, I think the SMZ-TMP is an excellent choice for this particular issue. I can’t say definitely if this is an infection but if it goes down hill it certainly will be an infection. If it started as a sting or ant bite it might have been inflammation. It is looking a little oozy so I wouldn’t hesitate to start the antibiotic.

    In this location on the arm, the SMZ-TMP is very good. It has the added benefit of being effective against MRSA. If the wound was on the head, neck or face… Clamamoz would definitely be better. On the head, neck or face you want to target oral organisms because of proximity to the mucous membranes of the mouth. The mouth is loaded with bacteria including both aerobic and anaerobic. These bacteria are often involved in infections of the head, neck, face. SMZ-TMP doesn’t have coverage for anaerobes. Clavamox does. Clavamox is a beta lactam antibiotic or a “penicillin” type antibiotic. You always want to use a beta lactam antibiotic when treating any infection near the mouth because the mouth is loaded with Streptococcus and anaerobes. If you were having a dental procedure and you have a heart issue, you would always be prescribed a beta lactam antibiotic like penicillin or amoxicillin. The reason is because it best targets the flora of mouth.

    Sorry, this was probably TMI but it explains why one antibiotic would be chosen over another.
    SMZ-TMP is a good antibiotic for this but if he continues to lick the wound … ‘mouth organisms’ … it could get more complicated.
    This is great information. Thanks. The antibiotic I was given by the vet only says SMZ. It doesn't say SMZ-TMP. Is there a difference, and should I go pick up the other if there is?

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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    There is plain Sulfamethoxazole (SMZ) that had been manufactured under the brand name of Gantanol (I believe) but I have not seen this medication used in many years because considerable bacterial resistance has developed to this Sulfamethoxazole itself. Nowadays Sulfamethoxazole is used almost exclusively in combination with Trimethoprim (TMP) and it is an excellent antibiotic and as mentioned, is generally effective for.treating Community Acquired MRSA! A common brand of SMZ-TMP is Bactrim. Please look closely at the label as I suspect what you really have SMZ-TMP. If not and it is plain Sulfamethoxazole, it will be potentially of less therapeutic value than SMZ-TMP or even be completely ineffective! Ideally, when using a sulfa drug, it should be combined with Trimethoprim.
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDane View Post
    This is great information. Thanks. The antibiotic I was given by the vet only says SMZ. It doesn't say SMZ-TMP. Is there a difference, and should I go pick up the other if there is?

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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheSquirrel2018 View Post
    There is plain Sulfamethoxazole (SMZ) that had been manufactured under the brand name of Gantanol (I believe) but I have not seen this medication used in many years because considerable bacterial resistance has developed to this Sulfamethoxazole itself. Nowadays Sulfamethoxazole is used almost exclusively in combination with Trimethoprim (TMP) and it is an excellent antibiotic and as mentioned, is generally effective for.treating Community Acquired MRSA! A common brand of SMZ-TMP is Bactrim. Please look closely at the label as I suspect what you really have SMZ-TMP. If not and it is plain Sulfamethoxazole, it will be potentially of less therapeutic value than SMZ-TMP or even be completely ineffective! Ideally, when using a sulfa drug, it should be combined with Trimethoprim.
    Regards,
    SamtheSquirrel
    Thanks for the reply Sam. I'm really not sure how to find out. My Rx label only says SMZ/Liquid Susp 240mg/5ml. I called my local vet to ask and the Dr who prescribed it wasn't there. She asked one of the backup vets I think, who said it was the same thing as the TMP one, but I don't know for sure that particular vet really knows. Do vets typically still use the SMZ alone?

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    Default Re: Pet Grey Squirrel - Lesion under arm - Safe antibiotic?

    Hi David: Is the label you are reading from a typed label from the pharmacy or from the veterinarian that may have been placed over the original label on the bottle? If so, maybe there is still the original product label underneath it that can still be read if you can gently peel back the typed label. That being said, as I mentioned, I have not seen plain Sulfamethoxazole in many years and probably it is not even currently available in any form for human or veterinary use. Further, the liquid formulation of SMZ-TMP for both human and Veterinary use is 200mg of SMZ plus 40mg of TMP per teaspoon (5ml). This would of course be a total of 240mg of medication. If your prescription states 240mg that is probably enough evidence to conclude that it is SMZ-TMP and not plain sulfamethoxazole.
    SamtheSquirrel

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDane View Post
    Thanks for the reply Sam. I'm really not sure how to find out. My Rx label only says SMZ/Liquid Susp 240mg/5ml. I called my local vet to ask and the Dr who prescribed it wasn't there. She asked one of the backup vets I think, who said it was the same thing as the TMP one, but I don't know for sure that particular vet really knows. Do vets typically still use the SMZ alone?

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