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Thread: Genital Abnormalities

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    Quote Originally Posted by MotherOfBadgers View Post
    After sleeping on it, the topmost thing could maybe be an umbilical hernia
    My gut tells me you are on to something. Herniated from suckling I'm guessing.

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    Quote Originally Posted by MotherOfBadgers View Post
    Lol you have no idea.

    Just for quick reference this was the picture of my girl's "penis" that identified her as female, so just an example of a healthy/normal vulva and anus. Attachment 317511

    @OP: do you have any updates? More pictures? Perhaps a video of stimulation to potty? Or at the very least a report on what type of excrement is coming from which holes?

    @mel and Island rehabber: I would say to go ahead and send this picture to the doctors.
    There are two other females in the litter and their genitals look exactly like this. Healthy and normal.

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    I have sent your most recent picture to Dr. Emerson’s office for review.

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  5. #24
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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    Dr. E responded. Without a clear picture of all three openings all she was able to advise was that the little guy is being suckled and should be separated. She said to apply neosporin to the penis or other areas that may be suckled.

    If you can get a clear picture of the full anatomy I will send it to her office again. I would need a picture that shows all three questionable anatomy parts. As of yet there hasn’t been a good picture showing the rectum along with the other two parts.

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    Ouch that second picture. It's getting worse. What state are you in? Maybe one of us would be able to come examine ourselves? I'm in NYC but will be in FL on the 25th. I would be willing to take a look.

    To respond in no particular order to some of the replies… The umbilical hernia would not have herniated due to any kind of suckling but it could be made worse/pulled out more/herniated further by suckling on what's already herniated.

    Now... I think that we can all agree the squirrels anus looks normal and healthy, not infected, not chewed on, not suckled. I know some posters feel that we didn't get a clear enough picture of it but I feel that the original image showed it clearly. Therefore the mystery is identification of the other two dangling participles.

    One of these parts is red, swollen, very irritated, somewhat bloody, and has a clear opening which perhaps may be a puncture considering babies get their lower teeth and are capable of puncturing each others very delicate skin. The upper honestly just looks like a suckled penis with a bit of dried pus plugging the opening. You're gonna need to soak the squirrel and remove the plug, or just skip the soak and pull it off (you haven't separated it from the others so ripping a pus scab quickly shouldnt bother you). This might be why it gave you a hard time stimulating potty.

    I know that it's difficult to see them in pain but you're going to have to force this baby to urinate while you're observing so that we can know which hole is the urethra.

    I think there are a few possibilities here…

    1- an umbilical hernia (top) with a penis (bottom) that has been suckled to the point of puncture and injury.

    2- a penis that has been suckled (top) and the very red irritated opening is just that -- a very red and irritated opening -- most likely from a bite. Could be scrotal skin or a hermaphroditic vulva or just a bite.

    3- your squirrel has two anuses and one has been nibbled on, whether it's functional or not.

    4- your squirrel has two penises, the lower suckled to the point of injury, and if this is the case it's vital that we determine which (if not both) the animal is urinating from

    5- hermaphroditism and the penis is elongated due to suckling and the vulva also elongated and injured due to suckling (the anatomy makes injury to the vulva more dramatic than the injury we see on a penis which is usually just some swelling and redness as well as stretching).

    From everything you have said:
    I do not believe that this is a female squirrel. I do not feel that is a vulva. When babies end up suckling on a sibling it's almost always a penis, not a vulva, because it's just not the right size or shape for them to associate it with a nipple.

    You mentioned that you observed the squirrel suckling itself from the upper, that indicates to me that the upper phallus is the penis and this is a male squirrel. They generally don't suckle a vulva nor a tube that produces no fluid. Also not to be a mean mommy but you saying "I suspect the sibling is involved too" means you haven't heeded the advice of many here and still have not SEPARATED THIS ONE FROM THE OTHERS. This isn't a preference. It's a necessity. Laziness isn't an excuse. If you want to be in the "business" of rescuing wildlife then you need to know what you're doing and do what you must when you must regardless how inconvenient. He will survive in a smaller box/cage/tank for a week or two. But he will not survive having his genitals chewed on several times a day. The animal is already in so much pain that you can't stimulate urination. How would you feel having someone chew on your genitals ~6x a day when they're already raw and chewed beyond recognition?

    It is imperative that you isolate this animal before the other one(s) eat him to death. It's horrifying to find a dead animal eaten by its siblings and you will never forgive yourself.

    You need to get him a cone ASAP (yes they make them for rodents, call around the local vets and pet supply stores). In the mean time you have to put a sock on the animal like a bodysuit so that he can't suckle himself.

    It's not gonna be a popular suggestion here but I would recommend feeding him until he's full and refuses food. They suckle because they are hungry. This is only getting worse. The second dangly bit looks like it's about to fall off either from chewing or just necrosis. If he's full then he will not have the urge to suckle himself.

    Lastly: can you describe the texture and general physical feel of both dangling bits? Are they hard or limp and very soft? Does the squirrel cry out more when you touch the lower bit compared to the upper?

    Again you HAVE TO stimulate this baby to pee and determine where it's coming from.

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    Finder (zookeeper) is in Virginia. There’s a plethora of knowledgeable rehabbers around that area. Maybe someone local could take a look as MoB suggested.

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    Quote Originally Posted by MotherOfBadgers View Post
    Ouch that second picture. It's getting worse. What state are you in? Maybe one of us would be able to come examine ourselves? I'm in NYC but will be in FL on the 25th. I would be willing to take a look.

    To respond in no particular order to some of the replies… The umbilical hernia would not have herniated due to any kind of suckling but it could be made worse/pulled out more/herniated further by suckling on what's already herniated.

    Now... I think that we can all agree the squirrels anus looks normal and healthy, not infected, not chewed on, not suckled. I know some posters feel that we didn't get a clear enough picture of it but I feel that the original image showed it clearly. Therefore the mystery is identification of the other two dangling participles.

    One of these parts is red, swollen, very irritated, somewhat bloody, and has a clear opening which perhaps may be a puncture considering babies get their lower teeth and are capable of puncturing each others very delicate skin. The upper honestly just looks like a suckled penis with a bit of dried pus plugging the opening. You're gonna need to soak the squirrel and remove the plug, or just skip the soak and pull it off (you haven't separated it from the others so ripping a pus scab quickly shouldnt bother you). This might be why it gave you a hard time stimulating potty.

    I know that it's difficult to see them in pain but you're going to have to force this baby to urinate while you're observing so that we can know which hole is the urethra.

    I think there are a few possibilities here…

    1- an umbilical hernia (top) with a penis (bottom) that has been suckled to the point of puncture and injury.

    2- a penis that has been suckled (top) and the very red irritated opening is just that -- a very red and irritated opening -- most likely from a bite. Could be scrotal skin or a hermaphroditic vulva or just a bite.

    3- your squirrel has two anuses and one has been nibbled on, whether it's functional or not.

    4- your squirrel has two penises, the lower suckled to the point of injury, and if this is the case it's vital that we determine which (if not both) the animal is urinating from

    5- hermaphroditism and the penis is elongated due to suckling and the vulva also elongated and injured due to suckling (the anatomy makes injury to the vulva more dramatic than the injury we see on a penis which is usually just some swelling and redness as well as stretching).

    From everything you have said:
    I do not believe that this is a female squirrel. I do not feel that is a vulva. When babies end up suckling on a sibling it's almost always a penis, not a vulva, because it's just not the right size or shape for them to associate it with a nipple.

    You mentioned that you observed the squirrel suckling itself from the upper, that indicates to me that the upper phallus is the penis and this is a male squirrel. They generally don't suckle a vulva nor a tube that produces no fluid. Also not to be a mean mommy but you saying "I suspect the sibling is involved too" means you haven't heeded the advice of many here and still have not SEPARATED THIS ONE FROM THE OTHERS. This isn't a preference. It's a necessity. Laziness isn't an excuse. If you want to be in the "business" of rescuing wildlife then you need to know what you're doing and do what you must when you must regardless how inconvenient. He will survive in a smaller box/cage/tank for a week or two. But he will not survive having his genitals chewed on several times a day. The animal is already in so much pain that you can't stimulate urination. How would you feel having someone chew on your genitals ~6x a day when they're already raw and chewed beyond recognition?

    It is imperative that you isolate this animal before the other one(s) eat him to death. It's horrifying to find a dead animal eaten by its siblings and you will never forgive yourself.

    You need to get him a cone ASAP (yes they make them for rodents, call around the local vets and pet supply stores). In the mean time you have to put a sock on the animal like a bodysuit so that he can't suckle himself.

    It's not gonna be a popular suggestion here but I would recommend feeding him until he's full and refuses food. They suckle because they are hungry. This is only getting worse. The second dangly bit looks like it's about to fall off either from chewing or just necrosis. If he's full then he will not have the urge to suckle himself.

    Lastly: can you describe the texture and general physical feel of both dangling bits? Are they hard or limp and very soft? Does the squirrel cry out more when you touch the lower bit compared to the upper?

    Again you HAVE TO stimulate this baby to pee and determine where it's coming from.
    I don't like your tone. You're doing a lot of assuming so let me give you the backstory; this isn't my squirrel. This baby came to me temporarily. This squirrel is from a litter of 5 babies that were in a nest that was destroyed when a local man cut down a dead tree. He was concerned the babies wouldn't survive the cold so he took them home with him. He should have left them alone for their Mama to deal with but that's not what happened. He kept 2, gave his sister 2 and I ended up with 1 initially because I'm the local squirrel lady. One of the 2 his sister had was killed because they were letting children play with them so she gave the other one to me to keep that from happening again. Horrible, I know. I don't know why they didn't give me the whole litter, it's certainly what I would have preferred but that's not what happened. Everyone thinks baby squirrels are cute and cuddly and how hard can it be, so what the heck! Let's keep them as pets! They're well meaning folks but clueless. And just to be clear, I DO NOT keep my squirrels as pets. I raise the babies until they are self sufficient and then release them because it is illegal to keep wildlife as pets in Virginia....and I don't believe in keeping animals in cages. So, I currently have 2 of the litter and the man who cut the tree has the other two. He and his wife went on vacation and asked me to keep and eye on his 2 babies and that is how I discovered the problem.

    Back to the issue at hand. While the squirrels were in my care I DID separate this baby from it's sibling. I am NOT lazy. I also soaked the squirrel and tried to stimulate the baby with warm running water in an effort to see where the urine was coming from but couldn't make a determination. The owners haven't been stimulating their babies. They didn't know it was necessary. They've also been underfeeding them. Like I said, they are well meaning; they have hearts of gold but they're ignorant. I have been in daily contact with them and have asked them if I can take the baby back temporarily for observation because I'd like to get more pictures and need to determine where the baby is urinating from. I've even offered to have the baby seen by a vet at my expense but they haven't made a decision yet. I don't think they understand the severity of the situation.

    Regarding your question about the texture of the hanging bits they are limp and soft. Especially the bit in the middle...think loose, thin skin.

  11. #28
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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    Isn't an 8-9-week-old squirrel past stimulating? I understand trying to see what's coming out of where, but in general wouldn't any baby that old be pottying on its own?
    "I hope everyone got or gets their Baby Love today"~Shewhosweptforest

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    What’s important here is that these well-meaning folks get a firm grasp on the magnitude of the situation. There should be no “deciding” if they will let you take the squirrel to a vet as doing so is in the best interest of the squirrel. Whether this squirrel has abnormalities of his genitalia is also not the real issue. The real issue is that the suckling by himself, or his sibling(s), has to stop. If you say they were being underfed than obviously that’s part of the problem.....the other is that they need to remain separated until it can be determined that there is no more suckling going on.

    So, just so I have this straight....two babies went to the well-meaning folks sister who allowed her kids to accidentally kill one of them? They then handed off the surviving one to you. The well-meaning folks have two and you have the other two? The baby that you posted about is one that the well-meaning folks have? You were asked by them to care for their two for a short period of time? If all of this is accurate then in my opinion if you had all the surviving babies in your possession and you discovered that they were being underfed, not stimulated and one was being horribly suckled WHY would you give any of them back to the well-meaning folks?? Clearly, being in their care, regardless of how well-meaning and gold their hearts are, IS NOT in the best interest of the squirrels!

    These are little innocent lives. You say you have experience and have successfully released squirrels and understand what is involved in caring for a squirrel and seeing it through to release. Do you think these folks are willing to accept your advice and will be willing to release the two they have? Do they know what to do if that little guy can’t urinate? Do they know they have to be fed a rodent block? Do they know not to wean them but to let them wean on their own? A million questions that inexperienced well-meaning folks that appear to “know it all” probably won’t ask. I see this as a train wreck moving forward and feel terrible for the squirrels.

    I am happy to send another picture to my vet for her opinion on the anatomy abnormalities, but it must be a clear picture that shows all three areas of concern. It would save you from the need to take it to a vet.

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    @ZooKeeper

    I dont even know where to begin.

    First of all you can't get upset with people for not knowing things you never explained. That's absurd.

    Second: I am being cordial hut stern. Your feelings aren't my priority here. I'm reprimanding because this is life and death of a living thing that cannot care for or protect itself, it is in horrible condition due to neglect, has no pain treatment, no plan for any treatment, no proper diagnosis, and now, according to your most recent post, it seems you GAVE THE SQUIRREL BACK TO THE PEOPLE THAT LET THIS HAPPEN? How could you do that? Why would you do that?

    You came to the tightest most exclusive semi-public access but largely private group of experts who dedicate their lives to these animals because you needed help with something that you don't know how to deal with. Getting chewed out when we see something obvious not being done, or someone obviously wrong being done, is part for the course.

    As for the squirrel:
    Lie and tell them you're a licensed rehabber and demand the babies back under threat of reporting them. Do not give either back.

    Or, if a vet will see the animal (but charges a fee) demand to attend the vet with them and have them pay the bill, then offer to take the animals off their hands "because it's expensive and time consuming." Which it is.

    And why are they keeping any in the first place?

    These people aren't fit to care for the babies. If you truly care and want to do what's right by the animals then you will remove the babies from these people's possession ASAP.

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    Quote Originally Posted by Chirps View Post
    Isn't an 8-9-week-old squirrel past stimulating? I understand trying to see what's coming out of where, but in general wouldn't any baby that old be pottying on its own?
    They might not NEED it but they will still respond to it and if they've not been stimulated to this point it's probably needed now.

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    I sent the first picture to my vet. After looking at it it’s much more obvious that there’s what looks like a rectum in the picture. Everything isn’t quite as inflamed from suckling, either.

    How’s the little one doing? I had a male squirrel that was suckled by its brother and while the poor thing was trying to urinate his penis swelled up like a balloon. Luckily I was stimulating him at the time and was able to gently express it and was diligent about being certain there was no scab covering the opening. I’m sure it would have been bad if I hadn’t been there to help him.

    Maybe the urine isn’t flowing through your little guys penis so the suckling isn’t impacting it, but it can still have difficulties urinating if the vulva is swollen and not allowing urine to pass. The result would be the same....a ruptured bladder.

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    Zookeeper, my vet looked at the latest picture I sent her, which was the first picture you posted. She said that it’s still hard to tell by the photo and not handling it in person, but that if you thought there were “extra parts” then it should be evaluated by a vet.

    I hope you will ask the people that have it if they would please let you get it to a vet for evaluation.

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1959 View Post
    What’s important here is that these well-meaning folks get a firm grasp on the magnitude of the situation. There should be no “deciding” if they will let you take the squirrel to a vet as doing so is in the best interest of the squirrel. Whether this squirrel has abnormalities of his genitalia is also not the real issue. The real issue is that the suckling by himself, or his sibling(s), has to stop. If you say they were being underfed than obviously that’s part of the problem.....the other is that they need to remain separated until it can be determined that there is no more suckling going on.

    So, just so I have this straight....two babies went to the well-meaning folks sister who allowed her kids to accidentally kill one of them? They then handed off the surviving one to you. The well-meaning folks have two and you have the other two? The baby that you posted about is one that the well-meaning folks have? You were asked by them to care for their two for a short period of time? If all of this is accurate then in my opinion if you had all the surviving babies in your possession and you discovered that they were being underfed, not stimulated and one was being horribly suckled WHY would you give any of them back to the well-meaning folks?? Clearly, being in their care, regardless of how well-meaning and gold their hearts are, IS NOT in the best interest of the squirrels!

    These are little innocent lives. You say you have experience and have successfully released squirrels and understand what is involved in caring for a squirrel and seeing it through to release. Do you think these folks are willing to accept your advice and will be willing to release the two they have? Do they know what to do if that little guy can’t urinate? Do they know they have to be fed a rodent block? Do they know not to wean them but to let them wean on their own? A million questions that inexperienced well-meaning folks that appear to “know it all” probably won’t ask. I see this as a train wreck moving forward and feel terrible for the squirrels.

    I am happy to send another picture to my vet for her opinion on the anatomy abnormalities, but it must be a clear picture that shows all three areas of concern. It would save you from the need to take it to a vet.
    They didn't know any of that. I gave them instructions to keep the babies separated and up their formula. I told them about rodent blocks and, antlers and fox valley formula. They've been feeding esbilac. I even sent a link for them to order the right formula when they first brought the babies home but they never did.

    They've asked several times if both squirrels are female and mentioned them having babies. They want to keep them as pets if they're both female. I've advised against it and told them it's illegal. I can't force people to do the right thing unfortunately.

    That being said, they are going to give me the baby back. Hopefully tomorrow. I want them both and I have no intention of returning the squirrels but I don't want them to know that or they won't give them up. I've just got to come up with a plan to keep them here.

    I hate this situation and my heart breaks for these babies. I've lost sleep over this. I want to make things better for them and give them the best possible start but like I said, I can't force other people to do the right thing.

    As soon as I can get them here I'll post more pictures and I'd be grateful to you if you could forward them to the vet. Thank you.

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    Quote Originally Posted by MotherOfBadgers View Post
    @ZooKeeper

    I dont even know where to begin.

    First of all you can't get upset with people for not knowing things you never explained. That's absurd.

    Second: I am being cordial hut stern. Your feelings aren't my priority here. I'm reprimanding because this is life and death of a living thing that cannot care for or protect itself, it is in horrible condition due to neglect, has no pain treatment, no plan for any treatment, no proper diagnosis, and now, according to your most recent post, it seems you GAVE THE SQUIRREL BACK TO THE PEOPLE THAT LET THIS HAPPEN? How could you do that? Why would you do that?

    You came to the tightest most exclusive semi-public access but largely private group of experts who dedicate their lives to these animals because you needed help with something that you don't know how to deal with. Getting chewed out when we see something obvious not being done, or someone obviously wrong being done, is part for the course.

    As for the squirrel:
    Lie and tell them you're a licensed rehabber and demand the babies back under threat of reporting them. Do not give either back.

    Or, if a vet will see the animal (but charges a fee) demand to attend the vet with them and have them pay the bill, then offer to take the animals off their hands "because it's expensive and time consuming." Which it is.

    And why are they keeping any in the first place?

    These people aren't fit to care for the babies. If you truly care and want to do what's right by the animals then you will remove the babies from these people's possession ASAP.
    You are not being cordial but stern, you're being condescending and rude. Making assumptions about what you think I'm doing or not doing and then insulting me isn't going to help this situation at all.

    Do you really think you can be like that and then get a positive response???

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoo Keeper View Post
    They didn't know any of that. I gave them instructions to keep the babies separated and up their formula. I told them about rodent blocks and, antlers and fox valley formula. They've been feeding esbilac. I even sent a link for them to order the right formula when they first brought the babies home but they never did.

    They've asked several times if both squirrels are female and mentioned them having babies. They want to keep them as pets if they're both female. I've advised against it and told them it's illegal. I can't force people to do the right thing unfortunately.

    That being said, they are going to give me the baby back. Hopefully tomorrow. I want them both and I have no intention of returning the squirrels but I don't want them to know that or they won't give them up. I've just got to come up with a plan to keep them here.

    I hate this situation and my heart breaks for these babies. I've lost sleep over this. I want to make things better for them and give them the best possible start but like I said, I can't force other people to do the right thing.

    As soon as I can get them here I'll post more pictures and I'd be grateful to you if you could forward them to the vet. Thank you.
    I’m glad they were receptive to your information about how to care for them....many aren’t. I know you’re concerned about their well-being. I really hope they follow through and hand the little ones over to you. I’m also praying that they figure out....real soon....that squirrels make lousy pets! It’s one thing to keep a squirrel because there’s medical reasons that prevent its release, but to keep a healthy squirrel as a pet is a completely different ball game. Thank you for looking out for them.

    My vet is one of the best squirrel vets in the country. If only she was closer....she’s in Port Orange, Florida.

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    Any luck getting the babies back?

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1959 View Post
    Any luck getting the babies back?
    They were supposed to bring them by yesterday but never showed. I messaged them last night and was told they'd bring them to me this evening. I got my fingers crossed.

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    Mine are crossed too.

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    Default Re: Genital Abnormalities

    Good news everyone! I got the babies back! Name:  IMG_20210227_115257.jpg
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