Veggies: cooked, blanched, raw????

[sraul]

Just starting to introduce veggies to my 9 week old flyer. She's eating HHB and formula. I've offered green bean, romaine and a sugar snap pea. So far no interest in any. I assumed I should give veggies raw, but reading forums see that some people cook the veggies. What do ya'll recommend?? And what veggies seem to be your flyer's favorites? I'm planning to keep offering a variety of things to see what she likes.

[Mel1959]

I provide my flyer an assortment every night. Some things he eats one night and doesn’t the next. I buy the Asian Kale or Honey Pecan salad kits. The veggies are about the same in both. It includes kale, cabbage (red and green), broccoli, cauliflower and arugula. It’s already chopped so I just put about a silver dollar size amount in his bowl. The dressing and nut pack I use for my own salads. To this I add a sugar snap pea, a chunk of coconut, a chunk of avocado (no skin or pit), a piece of sweet potato or hard squash, and occasionally a chunk of fresh corn, carrot and celery. He doesn’t always eat the avocado and I find the coconut stashed a lot. I also give him a piece of fruit. It can be a blueberry, strawberry top with the green leaves, piece of apple, half a grape, watermelon. Etc. He also likes freeze dried strawberries and banana chips. He gets some type of protein every night like piece of scrambled egg, meal worms, wax worms or dehydrated chicken called Pure Bites which I get at the pet store, as well as a teaspoon of vanilla full fat yogurt.

[sraul]

WOW! What a feast! That looks like a really great dinner! I'm assuming your flyer is full grown? Since mine is still taking formula and I'm just introducing the veggies should I stick with just offering one thing at a time? No need to cook or blanch any veggies in your opinion? I saw that someone was recommending that on another thread. It made it look complicated. They had certain times for everything. Thank you! Oh...also wanted to ask if greek yogurt was ok??

[Mel1959]

You can introduce new foods one at a time, but I’ve never really followed that protocol. My guy is almost 2 yrs old. I don’t normally cook any of the veggies for him but I do have a released gray that lives in my side yard tree that likes Japanese sweet potato slightly cooked, so I occasionally put some of that in his dish.

Greek yogurt is fine, but I’m not sure if you can get it in a full fat version. You just want to be sure it doesn’t have any artificial sweeteners. Full fat is best and my guy likes vanilla better than strawberry or coconut.

[Diggie's Friend]

By blanching immature greens 90's it lowers their pH value in the meal, as does boiling other vegetables sources. it also aids in predigesting leafy greens and and stalked and root vegetables. This also increases the availability of the minerals in these sources to the body vs. consuming them raw. Blanching of all vegetable for 90 sec. kills potential bad bacteria, and worms they may be carrying. Blanching and boiling also improves the taste of greens, as it lowers the bitterness of brassica and other leafy greens.

The mean pH value of the urine is reflective of the diet. When the mean urine pH of the diet falls in the mid 6 range around (6.4 to 6.5), yet up to (6.9 is good also, it best supports digestion and the availability of nutrients in the foods to the body. Below (6.0) into the 5 and lower range is highly acidic that is also abnormal and unhealthy. Over (7.0) mean urine pH into the alkaline range doesn't well support the digestion of foods as does a mean urine pH that is slightly acidic. The normal mean urine pH of small mammals is mid six range around (6.5). Keep in mind that in taking readings they will range from (6.0 to 8.0).

To determine the mean, the most common value of the readings taken, take a minimum of 3 readings the same day at least one hour after meals, and then one additional reading the next day prior to the first meal. Then total the values and divide by the total number of readings taken. The more readings obtained the first day, the more accurate the value of the mean will be.

Here is an inexpensive source that can support determining the mean urine pH of the diet you are feeding. If the diet is imbalanced from being too acidic the mean will be below 6.0, and if alkaline then above 7.0.

https://www.amazon.com/Litmus-Strips...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

To correct an pH imbalance in the diet, if alkaline, boil the sources to reduce the overall mean urine pH of the diet; if too acidic below 6.2, increase alkaline sources. These aren't just vegetables though, but melon, and fresh tree fruits that also lend support towards balancing the mean urine pH promoted by the diet. Abnormal mean urine pH has been confirmed in rats and mice and other small mammals to promote an increased in calcium loss in the urine that may also contribute to the development of kidney and bladder stones.

[sraul]

Wow Diggie's Friend! I'm guessing you are a scientist or nutritionist? That was a lot of great, very detailed information! Thank you

[Charley Chuckles]

By blanching immature greens 90's it lowers their pH value in the meal, as does boiling other vegetables sources. it also aids in predigesting leafy greens and and stalked and root vegetables. This also increases the availability of the minerals in these sources to the body vs. consuming them raw. Blanching of all vegetable for 90 sec. kills potential bad bacteria, and worms they may be carrying. Blanching and boiling also improves the taste of greens, as it lowers the bitterness of brassica and other leafy greens.

The mean pH value of the urine is reflective of the diet. When the mean urine pH of the diet falls in the mid 6 range around (6.4 to 6.5), yet up to (6.9 is good also, it best supports digestion and the availability of nutrients in the foods to the body. Below (6.0) into the 5 and lower range is highly acidic that is also abnormal and healthy. Over (7.0) mean urine pH into the alkaline range doesn't well support the digestion of foods as does a mean urine pH that is slightly acidic. The normal mean urine pH of small mammals is mid six range around (6.5). Keep in mind that in taking readings they will range from (6.0 to 8.0).

To determine the mean, the most common value of the readings taken, take a minimum of 3 readings the same day at least one hour after meals, and then one additional reading the next day prior to the first meal. Then total the values and divide by the total number of readings taken. The more readings obtained the first day, the more accurate the value of the mean will be.

Here is an inexpensive source that can support determining the mean urine pH of the diet you are feeding. If the diet is imbalanced from being too acidic the mean will be below 6.0, and if alkaline then above 7.0.

https://www.amazon.com/Litmus-Strips...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

To correct an pH imbalance in the diet, if alkaline, boil the sources to reduce the overall mean urine pH of the diet; if too acidic below 6.2, increase alkaline sources. These aren't just vegetables though, but melon, and fresh tree fruits that also lend support towards balancing the mean urine pH promoted by the diet. Abnormal mean urine pH has been confirmed in rats and mice and other small mammals to promote an increased in calcium loss in the urine that may also contribute to the development of kidney and bladder stones.

Diggie's, I'm very interested in getting the test strips. For a squirrel is this the accurate numbers? Thank you, my oldest just turned 10 I would like to know what his numbers are👍

" If the diet is imbalanced from being too acidic the mean will be below 6.0, and if alkaline then above 7.0"

Thanks sraul for this thread, I get frustrated wonder about feeding.

[Buddy]

By blanching immature greens 90's it lowers their pH value in the meal, as does boiling other vegetables sources. it also aids in predigesting leafy greens and and stalked and root vegetables. This also increases the availability of the minerals in these sources to the body vs. consuming them raw. Blanching of all vegetable for 90 sec. kills potential bad bacteria, and worms they may be carrying. Blanching and boiling also improves the taste of greens, as it lowers the bitterness of brassica and other leafy greens.

The mean pH value of the urine is reflective of the diet. When the mean urine pH of the diet falls in the mid 6 range around (6.4 to 6.5), yet up to (6.9 is good also, it best supports digestion and the availability of nutrients in the foods to the body. Below (6.0) into the 5 and lower range is highly acidic that is also abnormal and healthy. Over (7.0) mean urine pH into the alkaline range doesn't well support the digestion of foods as does a mean urine pH that is slightly acidic. The normal mean urine pH of small mammals is mid six range around (6.5). Keep in mind that in taking readings they will range from (6.0 to 8.0).

To determine the mean, the most common value of the readings taken, take a minimum of 3 readings the same day at least one hour after meals, and then one additional reading the next day prior to the first meal. Then total the values and divide by the total number of readings taken. The more readings obtained the first day, the more accurate the value of the mean will be.

Here is an inexpensive source that can support determining the mean urine pH of the diet you are feeding. If the diet is imbalanced from being too acidic the mean will be below 6.0, and if alkaline then above 7.0.

https://www.amazon.com/Litmus-Strips...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

To correct an pH imbalance in the diet, if alkaline, boil the sources to reduce the overall mean urine pH of the diet; if too acidic below 6.2, increase alkaline sources. These aren't just vegetables though, but melon, and fresh tree fruits that also lend support towards balancing the mean urine pH promoted by the diet. Abnormal mean urine pH has been confirmed in rats and mice and other small mammals to promote an increased in calcium loss in the urine that may also contribute to the development of kidney and bladder stones.

Thank you! Is this information for humans or squirrels? I highly doubt that in nature, squirrels lightly blanch their veggies before consuming.

[sraul]

I've been doing A LOT of reading on here. I just have some questions and I'm meaning no disrespect whatsoever. You guys obviously have tons of experience. It seems to me that in the wild squirrels eat mostly nuts, seeds, bark, lichen, bugs, mushrooms. In captivity they need to eat mostly veggies??? I've never seen squirrels getting into my garden and eating my veggies. I do see squirrels with the acorns and pecans and eating out of my bird feeder. They also eat my chicken feed and any corn they can find. So I guess what I'm asking is why are those foods taboo for them or only allowed as an occasional treat when that seems to be what they eat the most of in the wild? I've read some of the threads about MBD. It seems that the squirrels in capitivity that are fed mostly nuts and seeds get this horrible disease and it's corrected with calcium and veggies. I just don't understand why they aren't getting that disease in the wild??

[Buddy]

Curious to know about this as well. And I observed the same. I give my Buddy a lot of veggies (as per recommendation). He eats some of it and I try to give the rest to the wild squirrels and they never eat any of those veggies; even carrots.

[Diggie's Friend]

A key source of good digestive bacteria that tree squirrels consume in the wild is from the soil (geophagy), is most often seen in the summer months where tree squirrels pull up the roots of grasses to chew on the soil surrounding the roots and in the fall where they burying nuts in the soil. In captivity, it is needful provide a surrogate source of good digestive bacteria that makes up over 70 percent of their immune system and is also vital to supporting the well breakdown of the calcium lowering anti-nutrient (oxalates), that are common to nuts and seeds, leaves and buds, tree fruits and berries like unto what they consume in the wild, towards supporting the optimum availability of calcium and magnesium from their captive diets.

https://www.amazon.com/Vitality-Scie.../dp/B005PJN2HO

[Diggie's Friend]

True, blanching the greens is not natural to the diet of tree squirrels, though it is to wild rats that have shared man's diet since stationary populations were establish. Brassica leafy greens and vegetables sources aren't those that tree squirrels consume in the wild either, not at all like the sweet and flavorful leaves that they prefer. Highly processed ground grains in rodent block isn't natural either, nor are the unnatural sourced vitamin forms they contain; yet they are good enough for short term use for rehabbing juveniles squirrels to their release.

[Diggie's Friend]

In answer to CC question, as long as the strips are kept dry, they will last a good long time. I used paper litmus to test Ms. Diggie's freshly left pee puddles on our back step, mostly they were spot on 6.5, but occasionally there was one that showed a spike in pH. These tests weren't the mean urine pH. just individual readings, yet in captivity the mean can be determined as described in my post. Other sources may be easier to read I suppose, yet for the purpose of just testing urine pH yet I found the litmus paper kind adequate.

[Mel1959]

I've been doing A LOT of reading on here. I just have some questions and I'm meaning no disrespect whatsoever. You guys obviously have tons of experience. It seems to me that in the wild squirrels eat mostly nuts, seeds, bark, lichen, bugs, mushrooms. In captivity they need to eat mostly veggies??? I've never seen squirrels getting into my garden and eating my veggies. I do see squirrels with the acorns and pecans and eating out of my bird feeder. They also eat my chicken feed and any corn they can find. So I guess what I'm asking is why are those foods taboo for them or only allowed as an occasional treat when that seems to be what they eat the most of in the wild? I've read some of the threads about MBD. It seems that the squirrels in capitivity that are fed mostly nuts and seeds get this horrible disease and it's corrected with calcium and veggies. I just don't understand why they aren't getting that disease in the wild??

Squirrels that are in the wild instinctively know how to balance their diet. They consume all types of wild foods that you might not realize. I’ve watched them eat flowers, fresh bud leaves on the trees, dirt, bark, seed pods from trees, palm seeds, small coconut seeds....just to name a few. This variety of food keeps the minerals in their bodies balanced. That’s why they can have nuts and seeds that are high in phosphorous, because they have access to the other foods in nature that their body tells them they need to maintain that balance.

Squirrels in captivity don’t have that ability. They rely solely on us for their nutrients. The vegetables we offer are how we try to provide nutrients they would have found in nature. Greens in place of leaves, etc. If I were to feed a captive squirrel the number of nuts and seeds that I feed my wild squirrels they’d have MBD in no time!

Because competition for food is so fierce and squirrels are hard wired to hoard, many of the nuts that are taken at any given time are buried and not immediately eaten. I’m sure there’s tons that never do get found and just remain buried forever. All of that digging and rooting around in the soil provides a perfect opportunity for squirrels to eat the dirt that contains many micronutrients that keep them healthy.

Giving your captive squirrel safe branches and flowers from outside is a great way for them to get the healthy nutrients that our diets can’t provide. This is also why a good rodent block is a necessity. It makes up for all those items they miss out on by being inside.

A word of caution, it’s not suggested to ever feed wild mushrooms to a captive squirrel because many are poisonous. Mushrooms are a good source of vitamin D, though. My flyer prefers shiitake mushrooms over white button, but the grays prefer white button. Go figure.

[sraul]

Thank you Mel1959 That definitely helps me understand the "why" behind their recommended diet

[Rock Monkey]

I think the hard vegetables like sweet potatoes and winter squash become more palatable and readily digestible when they have been cooked. Furthermore, it gives an opportunity it gives one the opportunity to add a little bit of this that and the other to further diversify the nutrients and increase taste appeal.

Helen, a gray, definitely prefers her sweet potatoes cooked with a little bit of this that and the other. For instance, I add a little cinnamon, maple syrup, and organic, cold-pressed coconut oil. She loves that.

[Diggie's Friend]

All the root vegetables should be cooked. They are very high in indigestible starch; breaking that down is needful to support nutrient availability. Raw Sweet potatoes should not be fed, only boiled or baked. Potatoes in general are a high carb food, feeding them on a regular basis can lead to the development of diabetes. Baked Squash on the other hand is actually the fruit of a vine, works well for tree squirrels, lower in carbs and a good source of both digestible and indigestible fiber also. The seeds can be dehydrated and included in a small amount as they are high in phosphorus, but also high in zinc, magnesium, and other trace minerals.

[Diggie's Friend]

In regard to flyers that are nocturnal, it has been assumed the only source of vitamin D, in the form of D2 from mushrooms is what flying squirrels consume that supports their need for Vitamin D; yet in the last so many years it was discovered that some lichen species contain vitamin D3. As flyers use lichens to line their nests and are known to eat edible lichens also. it makes sense since D2 (ergocalciferol) from mushrooms is seasonal, yet there are species of lichens available all year round that they consume some that contain D3 (cholecalciferol). Which sources of non toxic edible lichens flyers consume, is documented.

If you feed rodent block then do not add this source of D3 to the diet, as Rodent block diets contains D3 in a sufficient amount, making an addition to that amount in excess and potentially damaging to double that which a rodent block contains.

If make up your own homemade diet without ground up block, then this source can be used as a source of D3 using this specific measure.

For adult Southern flying squirrels, 1 needle drop (added every other day) from a (1 ml )(1 cc) needle syringe.

(1 ml contains 2500 IU D3 reduced by 40 as there 40 non needle drops in a non needle 1 ml (1 cc) syringe, then divided by 4, as their are 4 needle drops in one non needle drop from the same syringe, comes to (62.5 IU) D3. Dividing this down by half, giving one needle drop every other day to flyers averages over two days (31.25 IU) of Vit. D3 daily.

There are two sources available; this one from Global Healing s lower in price than the other. If this source becomes not available, then go with the one from Vimergy using the same dose measure.

https://www.amazon.com/Global-Healin...6-05ac39e80cc0

[Diggie's Friend]

For wild mushrooms harvested from pristine region in the US. by experts, check out Oregon Mushrooms. Some of the varieties of wild mushrooms are higher in oxalic acid (calcium reducing anti-nutrient) than others; for a list of wild mushrooms lower in oxalates, send me a PM. The dried powdered mushrooms from, "Oregon Mushroom Ltd." are the best value; check out their smaller far less expensive bag that isn't on the front page. In powder form it's easy to add a small measure to moist food daily. A gray squirrel I know of has been fed one variety of the powdered dried mushrooms for a number of years, really likes it.

https://www.oregonmushrooms.com/c-16...m-powders.aspx