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Thread: Information about MBD

  1. #1
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    Default Information about MBD

    Hi everyone, I have a 4 1/2 yr old female name Winnie Lee, I have been talking to some people here and other rehabbers and we are thinking that because Winnie has always been a horrible eater and almost never finished her HHB that she most likely now has MBD .

    She has been on the mbd calcium regimen for a few days now and I see some improvements through out the day but then she acts like she is getting worse again.

    She is also on antibiotics because of a possible uti.

    When a squirrel has mbd and being treated for it with all the calcium recommend from hhp is it normal to see improvement for a hour or so and then they look sick and painful again ?

    Her sickness started a few days ago when she just would not get out of bed and stopped eating and drinking and sat hunched over and then would almost curl in a ball and all she wants to do is sleep.
    Her fur looks like she is puffing it out .

    This seems like it happened over night.
    She has been offered a healthy diet since she was a baby coming off fox valley 20 50. Her diet offered is 2 hhb picky a day. Fresh veggies like avocado, sweet potatoes, squash, tomatoes, spinach, lettuce, broccoli and cauliflower, mushrooms All good things but she would only take a bite here and there. I made the mistake of giving her pecans or a peanut. Or a walnut, almond . And she would eat them right up and I'm sure it's my fault she is picky and all that is going to change now but she also didnt get sunlight and I was told not to use a full spectrum light on her for the vitamin D because it was bad for her eyes and that if I gave her the hhb she would be fine with out it.

    I now realize how wrong i was because she is such a bad eater. And being how fast this came on I do think she does have MBD but like I said over the last several days when this started she is up and then down.
    For instance yesterday I had a struggle getting her to eat even the calcium peanut butter ball 5 times a day and I was having a hard time getting her to drink even water with a little honey in it, she was curled up in a ball and I honestly didnt think she would make it over night.

    Today I had enough and decided this little girl is going to get the extra calcium so I mixed up some fox valley 20 50 and measured out 20 Ml and mixed the daily dose of calcium in that and gave her 5 ml 4 times throughout the day.
    I also took her out in a small cage and sat in the sun with her for 20 min and she perked right up, she was climbing the cage, washing her face , did good poops and pee and even drank from her water bottle while we were outside. We came in she seemed tired but feeling better . A hour later she was right back curled up hunched over . It's been like this so many times now one min she looks and acts like she is feeling better then acts like I'm going to loose her.
    Is this what MBD looks like and how long before she starts to feel better?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    She is showing signs of improvement

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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    Quote Originally Posted by bednarkim77 View Post
    She is showing signs of improvement
    Good to hear.

    In case needed, this is the link to the protocol for treating mbd.

    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...dated-3-31-09)
    Step-N-Stone
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    Wildlife Master Rehabilitator


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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    This is great!!

    If she is still bright tomorrow, decrease the ibuprophen a bit. You can either give her a teeny bit less every four hours or give her the regular amount but space it out to every 6 maybe. You will hold at that and give her 24 hours and if things still look good, wean her off of it a little more. You don't want her to be in pain - it affects eating, drinking, and those things make them start to go downhill, but if she doesn't need the full amount, and eventually doesn't need any, this is the best way to figure that out.

    Yay!

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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    Thank you. I haven't given her any motrin for 2 days now because I thought it was bad for her kidneys, but if I can give her a little maybe it will help her pain and she will start to eat. I have been just wrapping her in a blanket and feeding her the fox valley with the extra calcium. How long should i add the calcium to her 4 feedings a day ? She is being fed VIA a full 5 ml syringe. I pre mix the formula and then fill 4 syringes and add to a little jar and put the daily calcium in that and then every few hours give her 5ml that is warm. But if I can give her motrin she may feel better. She is also getting sun now for the Vitamin D that she was not getting before . I just wish she would eat . She is still on her antibiotics until Monday night.




    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    This is great!!

    If she is still bright tomorrow, decrease the ibuprophen a bit. You can either give her a teeny bit less every four hours or give her the regular amount but space it out to every 6 maybe. You will hold at that and give her 24 hours and if things still look good, wean her off of it a little more. You don't want her to be in pain - it affects eating, drinking, and those things make them start to go downhill, but if she doesn't need the full amount, and eventually doesn't need any, this is the best way to figure that out.

    Yay!

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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    Ps. How long can she be on motrin if she is in pain. I stopped it so maybe that's why she still wont eat on her own.



    Quote Originally Posted by bednarkim77 View Post
    Thank you. I haven't given her any motrin for 2 days now because I thought it was bad for her kidneys, but if I can give her a little maybe it will help her pain and she will start to eat. I have been just wrapping her in a blanket and feeding her the fox valley with the extra calcium. How long should i add the calcium to her 4 feedings a day ? She is being fed VIA a full 5 ml syringe. I pre mix the formula and then fill 4 syringes and add to a little jar and put the daily calcium in that and then every few hours give her 5ml that is warm. But if I can give her motrin she may feel better. She is also getting sun now for the Vitamin D that she was not getting before . I just wish she would eat . She is still on her antibiotics until Monday night.

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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    I'm sorry for all the questions,
    Is it normal when a squirrel has MBD to just want to sleep? When I take her outside (in a cage) she peeks right up climbs all over drinks some of her water and looks good. The minute I bring her back in she want to go to her bed and just sleep. She is still not eating anything just when I make her take the fox valley mixed with the extra calcium.

    I am following all the directions I was given with the daily calcium, her antibiotics 2x a day and giving her some water with a little honey. And still offering her the HHB and veggies but she won't eat.

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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    I suggest giving her the infant ibuprophen as I originally dosed it for you for at least 24-36 hours and then reassess her. If her appetite is picking up a bit then you can very gradually start reducing the iburophen she is getting.

    The dose of the ibuprophen I gave you is actually 1/3 of what the allowable amount is - I told you it was conservative and it is. Then you will be weaning it off and giving even less as you do. It is a safe dose. And if you continue increasing her hydration as mentioned you are even further protecting the kidneys. She will be much better off in every way if she isn't in pain.

    IF this really is MBD, yes, the lethargy is part of it and some of that is pain related too. The body needs a certain amount of calcium and if it isn't getting it through diet, it will leach it from the bones, causing them to get very thin and weak and porous, like an elderly woman with bad osteoporosis. They hurt, and lying around is the most comfortable - and honestly, the safest. I know you want to see her bouncing around and normal but that takes time. Resting and regrowing bone and not accidentally hurting herself doing something she would normally have no problem doing like jumping from here to there is safest.

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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    Thank you so much for the reassurance and all the help. I feel much more at ease and feel my princess will pull through this ❤

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    Default Re: Information about MBD

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    Princess Winnie Lee ❤

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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    I'm still seeing improvement, but she still wants to sleep all the time and she still wont eat on her own so I still have to syringe feed her with the fox valley mixed with the extra calcium. I made her eat some yogurt today because she is on the antibiotics until Monday,

    Anyone know how long before she isn't so tired?
    And I wish she would eat , I hate putting her through all this syringe force feeding.

    And now she is constipated
    so I gave her some 100%juice apple juice.

    If she still is tomorrow should I try prune juice?

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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    Are you offering her water with a little sugar or honey in it for taste. Squirrels that are on formula still may need water for hydration. Formula is a source of food, not hydration. Squirrels that are dehydrated donít want to eat. Offer her water in between the formula feedings. The last thing you want to do is cave in and give her nuts or seeds. The formula is excellent for her and I think it would be good to continue offering it to her. It provides nutrients and calcium which are extra helpful for a picky eater.

    Do you have a heating pad under her cage where she can lay and get the warmth from it but not have access to it where she can chew it? Because MBD is painful the warmth of a heating pad can feel soothing.

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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    Thank you, yes I have been giving her water with honey, she does have a heating pad under her bed that she cant chew, I'm still having to force feed her with the formula, I've been giving her motrin in the morning and at night. I've been mixing the calcium 2 different ways each day. With cashew butter and honey and with peanutbutter and making the 5 balls each way. I offer her the peanutbutter one and if she wont eat it then the cashew one and if she still wont eat I finally mix the daily dose of calcium in 20 ml of formula and give her 5 ml 4x a day. She is also being offered water and if she wont drink on her own I give her 5 ml of water every couple hours. She is also offered her fresh picky blocks and fresh veggies but she will not eat.
    I feel so mean all this force feeding her .
    I do see some improvements though but she is a tired little girl.
    Last night I made her drink some apple juice I hope that will help her poop.

    Today we will be sitting outside again if it's nice out of not under her full spectrum light for a hour.







    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1959 View Post
    Are you offering her water with a little sugar or honey in it for taste. Squirrels that are on formula still may need water for hydration. Formula is a source of food, not hydration. Squirrels that are dehydrated donít want to eat. Offer her water in between the formula feedings. The last thing you want to do is cave in and give her nuts or seeds. The formula is excellent for her and I think it would be good to continue offering it to her. It provides nutrients and calcium which are extra helpful for a picky eater.

    Do you have a heating pad under her cage where she can lay and get the warmth from it but not have access to it where she can chew it? Because MBD is painful the warmth of a heating pad can feel soothing.

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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    Have you examined her mouth and teeth for any abnormalities?

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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    Yes all good. Her teeth are nice and trim and no mouth sores . I called Henry's emergency line last night and leah told me to try to give her calcium on a piece of French frie and of course that worked she loved it,
    I just dont want her to only want that, that's what got us in this situation in the first place bad foods.





    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1959 View Post
    Have you examined her mouth and teeth for any abnormalities?

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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    Winnie Lee is making progress, today she came out of her bed and played while I folded laundry, She is acting a little bit of her old self she even got in trouble
    Started opening the dresser and throwing Sox on the floor so I know she is feeling better LOL she likes to open the drawer and throw things on the floor so I will say win knock it off LOL
    Still having trouble wont eat but I'm giving her the formula with extra calcium and today I gave her a little apple juice with yogurt in a syringe,
    I guess I just have to keep trying different ways to get her to eat and get that extra calcium but we will figure it all out. Any tips or tricks would be greatly appreciated 😊.

    Thank you everyone who has helped me this is one of the scariest things I've ever dealt with.
    Winnie is my princess pretty boots and I dont know what I would do without her!

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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    It was also suggested that I try teklad 2014 so I just ordered some. I noticed they make 2014 and 2018 what's the difference and can she have the 2018 because I also read reviews and someone said they order the 2014 but received the 2018 .

  27. #18
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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    The 2018 has more protein than the 2014. Short term it will be okay. If she won't eat the HHBs she will likely turn her nose up at the Teklad - it is pretty bland!

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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    Critter mom is right, Teklad isnít readily accepted BUT it is great to grind up and use as a base for boo balls. There are lots of boo ball recipes in the Nutrition section. I make boo balls for all the wilds in my yard and they love them.

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    Default Re: Information about MBD

    That's what I was thinking I might do is grind them up and make balls for her to eat with the extra calcium, she is so damn picky maybe I can flavor them with something she will like. She still will not eat her Hhb picky or any veggies, I am still giving her fox valley 20 50 with the extra calcium and water with honey in between, she seems like she is doing better. I am giving her motrin every 6 hours and she still just wants to sleep but to me she looks like she is feeling better than when all this started.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1959 View Post
    Critter mom is right, Teklad isnít readily accepted BUT it is great to grind up and use as a base for boo balls. There are lots of boo ball recipes in the Nutrition section. I make boo balls for all the wilds in my yard and they love them.

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