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Thread: PUPPY ESBILAC??

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    Default PUPPY ESBILAC??

    I am hearing that Esbilac is bad to feed squirrels. I fed it to MY squirrel (who is now over 3 years old) and she is a happy healthy squirrel. So I don't understand WHY it is bad.

    I got some babies. I THINK they are squirrels (possibly rats). I got them about 8 hours ago from a woman that had them almost 24 hours with no food or water. So I have been feeding them Pedialyte until I can give them formula since they are dehydrated.

    Now when I DO feed them formula (which will be tomorrow morning) I NEED to know what to feed them. I already bought Puppy Esbilac about 8 hours ago. So if I NEED to buy something different I will have to continue to feed them Pedialyte until the stores open tomorrow and I can get to one to get something different. If not I will go ahead and feed them the Puppy Esbilac just like I did my squirrel several years ago.

    Now do I need to buy goat's milk eventually or Fox Valley 20/50 I think it is or either 20/40?

    PLEASE let me know.

    Thanks SO MUCH

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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirt the Stinker View Post
    I am hearing that Esbilac is bad to feed squirrels. I fed it to MY squirrel (who is now over 3 years old) and she is a happy healthy squirrel. So I don't understand WHY it is bad.

    I got some babies. I THINK they are squirrels (possibly rats). I got them about 8 hours ago from a woman that had them almost 24 hours with no food or water. So I have been feeding them Pedialyte until I can give them formula since they are dehydrated.

    Now when I DO feed them formula (which will be tomorrow morning) I NEED to know what to feed them. I already bought Puppy Esbilac about 8 hours ago. So if I NEED to buy something different I will have to continue to feed them Pedialyte until the stores open tomorrow and I can get to one to get something different. If not I will go ahead and feed them the Puppy Esbilac just like I did my squirrel several years ago.

    Now do I need to buy goat's milk eventually or Fox Valley 20/50 I think it is or either 20/40?

    PLEASE let me know.

    Thanks SO MUCH
    The Esbilac you fed your 3 yr old was fine then but they have changed the formula since and the calcium molecule cannot be digested properly by young squirrels... some of them have died, and those who have not have ended up with problems. Some developed MBD and two of mine had ytheir growth stunted; they remained very small to this day, even as adult - the 20/40 too has caused problems
    "In the midst of our lives we must find the magic that makes our souls soar."
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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Do the babies have black toenails or white? Do they have 5 digits on their front paw or 4 with a thumb knub? That will differentiate between baby rats or squirrels. Or you can post a picture.

    Regardless, I’m not sure what the proper formula is for rats, but you probably can’t go wrong with the homemade goats milk formula. The recipe is: 3 parts fresh goats milk (if you buy powdered or concentrate mix with water according to label directions prior to mixing with other ingredients), 1 part full fat yogurt (vanilla is ok, low fat will do, no artificial sweeteners), and 1 part heavy whipping cream. If they are pinkie squirrels the recipe changes slightly with the addition of an egg yolk. If you click on the Esbilac banner at the top of the forum page it will show you the goats milk recipe for pinkies with the egg addition.

    This is a temporary formula. If they’re squirrels you want to replace the egg version of this formula with Fox Valley 20/50 at about 3 weeks old.

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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Quote Originally Posted by Scooterzmom View Post
    The Esbilac you fed your 3 yr old was fine then but they have changed the formula since and the calcium molecule cannot be digested properly by young squirrels... some of them have died, and those who have not have ended up with problems. Some developed MBD and two of mine had ytheir growth stunted; they remained very small to this day, even as adult - the 20/40 too has caused problems
    I am wondering what to do now. Will it be okay then to keep feeding the babies ONLY pedialyte until I can get formula later today. My kids still haven't woke up. As of 8 AM this morning the babies will be on pedialyte for approx. 12 hours (that is NOT including the time the woman had them BEFORE I got them where they went a day or so without anything). I ONLY have the Puppy esbilac right now. So I am guessing rather than feed them that (even a few feedings UNTIL I can get goat's milk later today) I should just keep feeding them Pedialyte. I am just wondering if it is okay to keep feeding them Pedialyte. Will that sustain them another 4 to 6 hours until I can get to town today to get Goat's milk for them. And I will be ordering Fox Valley sometime today.

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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Yes, they can go without the formula if they have hydration. I see you’re in Florida. Anywhere close to Brevard County on the east coast?

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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1959 View Post
    Do the babies have black toenails or white? Do they have 5 digits on their front paw or 4 with a thumb knub? That will differentiate between baby rats or squirrels. Or you can post a picture.

    Regardless, I’m not sure what the proper formula is for rats, but you probably can’t go wrong with the homemade goats milk formula. The recipe is: 3 parts fresh goats milk (if you buy powdered or concentrate mix with water according to label directions prior to mixing with other ingredients), 1 part full fat yogurt (vanilla is ok, low fat will do, no artificial sweeteners), and 1 part heavy whipping cream. If they are pinkie squirrels the recipe changes slightly with the addition of an egg yolk. If you click on the Esbilac banner at the top of the forum page it will show you the goats milk recipe for pinkies with the egg addition.

    This is a temporary formula. If they’re squirrels you want to replace the egg version of this formula with Fox Valley 20/50 at about 3 weeks old.
    They actually look like they have 4 toes and a nub. The fingernails are white but I think they are too young to have color yet. I really think they are squirrels but everyone else is telling me they are rats. Hold on and I will show some pictures. It is hard getting them. I have no one to help me right now. My kids are sleeping.

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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirt the Stinker View Post
    I am wondering what to do now. Will it be okay then to keep feeding the babies ONLY pedialyte until I can get formula later today. My kids still haven't woke up. As of 8 AM this morning the babies will be on pedialyte for approx. 12 hours (that is NOT including the time the woman had them BEFORE I got them where they went a day or so without anything). I ONLY have the Puppy esbilac right now. So I am guessing rather than feed them that (even a few feedings UNTIL I can get goat's milk later today) I should just keep feeding them Pedialyte. I am just wondering if it is okay to keep feeding them Pedialyte. Will that sustain them another 4 to 6 hours until I can get to town today to get Goat's milk for them. And I will be ordering Fox Valley sometime today.
    We suggest not feeding the Pedialyte for more than 24 hours.
    You can give them the homemade hydration fluid, and even skip
    the salt.
    Homemade Rehydration fluid:

    1 cup warm water
    1 tablespoon sugar or molasses
    1 pinch salt

    The homemade Goat Milk formula is to be used only for a short duration until
    you can get the proper formula.

    Which puppy Esbilac did you buy. Many have found that if it's the dry formula with an
    expiration date of October 2021, it's working fine.
    Personally, if I had babies, I would use what one of our members who does ~80-100 squirrels
    yearly, uses.
    She uses the zoologic 33/40 and the Fox Valley 32/40 for tiny ones. When they open their eyes
    she switches the Fox Valley to 20/50
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003VMU73O...ing=UTF8&psc=1
    https://www.henryspets.com/fox-valley-formulas/



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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York View Post
    We suggest not feeding the Pedialyte for more than 24 hours.
    You can give them the homemade hydration fluid, and even skip
    the salt.
    Homemade Rehydration fluid:

    1 cup warm water
    1 tablespoon sugar or molasses
    1 pinch salt

    The homemade Goat Milk formula is to be used only for a short duration until
    you can get the proper formula.

    Which puppy Esbilac did you buy. Many have found that if it's the dry formula with an
    expiration date of October 2021, it's working fine.
    Personally, if I had babies, I would use what one of our members who does ~80-100 squirrels
    yearly, uses.
    She uses the zoologic 33/40 and the Fox Valley 32/40 for tiny ones. When they open their eyes
    she switches the Fox Valley to 20/50
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003VMU73O...ing=UTF8&psc=1
    https://www.henryspets.com/fox-valley-formulas/


    My kids just woke up. I started feeding the squirrels/rats pedialyte (mixed half with water) around 4 PM yesterday. I JUST fed them a little while ago. They are even peeing and pooping fine. I am running to town as soon as my kids eat to try to find Goat milk. I am hoping Wal-mart has some. I think I remember Wal-mart carrying Meyers powdered goat milk I think it is (the same kind that is sold at Whole Foods). Only because Whole Foods (which I normally shop at) is a distance from where I live and I want to get them on formula asap.. I am in the process right now of ordering the 20/50 Fox Valley Formula from Henry's Healthy Pets. I have read in this forum NOT to use the 32/40 because it is causing problems (cement gut) in babies. I am also ordering nipples from Henry's Healthy Pets.

    What is the difference between 33/40 and 20/50 Fox Valley Formula?

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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York View Post
    We suggest not feeding the Pedialyte for more than 24 hours.
    You can give them the homemade hydration fluid, and even skip
    the salt.
    Homemade Rehydration fluid:

    1 cup warm water
    1 tablespoon sugar or molasses
    1 pinch salt

    The homemade Goat Milk formula is to be used only for a short duration until
    you can get the proper formula.

    Which puppy Esbilac did you buy. Many have found that if it's the dry formula with an
    expiration date of October 2021, it's working fine.
    Personally, if I had babies, I would use what one of our members who does ~80-100 squirrels
    yearly, uses.
    She uses the zoologic 33/40 and the Fox Valley 32/40 for tiny ones. When they open their eyes
    she switches the Fox Valley to 20/50
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003VMU73O...ing=UTF8&psc=1
    https://www.henryspets.com/fox-valley-formulas/


    The Puppy Esbilac I have is actually the formula you mention. It is dry and the expiration is 10/21. But I would hate to hurt the squirrels even by just ONE feeding. I am going to get to town asap. So I think I am going to forgo the puppy esbilac formula and try to find Goat's milk asap. If Wal-mart has it I can feed the squirrels/rats within the next 2 hours but if not it could take 4 hours or more.

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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1959 View Post
    Yes, they can go without the formula if they have hydration. I see you’re in Florida. Anywhere close to Brevard County on the east coast?
    I am in the process right now of trying to find Goat's milk. So they have only been on Pedialyte (which I have mixed half and half with tap water--we are on well water too) for a little over 12 hours. We live in Bradford County.

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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York View Post
    We suggest not feeding the Pedialyte for more than 24 hours.
    You can give them the homemade hydration fluid, and even skip
    the salt.
    Homemade Rehydration fluid:

    1 cup warm water
    1 tablespoon sugar or molasses
    1 pinch salt

    The homemade Goat Milk formula is to be used only for a short duration until
    you can get the proper formula.

    Which puppy Esbilac did you buy. Many have found that if it's the dry formula with an
    expiration date of October 2021, it's working fine.
    Personally, if I had babies, I would use what one of our members who does ~80-100 squirrels
    yearly, uses.
    She uses the zoologic 33/40 and the Fox Valley 32/40 for tiny ones. When they open their eyes
    she switches the Fox Valley to 20/50
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003VMU73O...ing=UTF8&psc=1
    https://www.henryspets.com/fox-valley-formulas/



    Well if I can't get the Goat's milk right away I can use this homemade Pedialyte version. Thanks so much. That would work. I have all that on hand. Even the organic molasses. We eat all organic and non-GMO food in our house.

    And I meant to say Meyenberg Goat's milk. Not Meyers Goat's milk.

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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirt the Stinker View Post
    Well if I can't get the Goat's milk right away I can use this homemade Pedialyte version. Thanks so much. That would work. I have all that on hand. Even the organic molasses. We eat all organic and non-GMO food in our house.

    And I meant to say Meyenberg Goat's milk. Not Meyers Goat's milk.

    Sorry if I mislead you. Your little ones need nutrition, so they cannot stay on only hydration.
    We will need to figure something out, if you can't find the goat's milk.
    Please keep us posted.
    Thank you for really going out of your way for these little ones.

    Oh almost forgot. The difference in the Fox Valley 32/40 and the 20/50 is the protein to ratio.
    In the 32/40, the protein is 32% and the fat is 40%. In the 20/50 it's 20% protein and 50% fat.

    One more thing. I know in the past the FV 32/40 was NOT recommended. I believe the thinking
    is that ALL formulas should be mixed using 2 different formulas since no one formula is complete.
    That is why the 32/40 along with the Zoologic is acceptable, because they are not fed alone.
    Let me find the site with the nutritional calculator which allows you to plug in your formula, to see how close it
    is to mother's milk.
    Edit: Here's the site I was referring to.




    Quote Originally Posted by SammysMom View Post
    I have rehabbed 25 so far this season and I fed Zoologic 33/40 with Fox Valley 32/40 with heavy cream. I know of at least 150 successes and no issues have been seen with the blend.
    It is based on mother squirrel's milk and is fed birth to wean. If you want to look at the nutritional information on all formulas, go to ewildagain.org and take a look at the nutrition section. There is actually a calculator to check the nutrition of the formulas against squirrel's milk. It is an amazing resource of information and is all based on independent laboratory testing.

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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Can you post a picture? I believe you have baby rats and not squirrels, in which case the goats milk formula would be fine. Even baby pinkie squirrels have black toenails. Rats develop much quicker than squirrels in which case you do not need to invest in Fox Valley or any other formula.

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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirt the Stinker View Post
    I am in the process right now of trying to find Goat's milk. So they have only been on Pedialyte (which I have mixed half and half with tap water--we are on well water too) for a little over 12 hours. We live in Bradford County.
    Publix carries the meyenburg goats milk in powder and fresh. A super Walmart store probably will, too.

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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York View Post

    Sorry if I mislead you. Your little ones need nutrition, so they cannot stay on only hydration.
    We will need to figure something out, if you can't find the goat's milk.
    Please keep us posted.
    Thank you for really going out of your way for these little ones.

    Oh almost forgot. The difference in the Fox Valley 32/40 and the 20/50 is the protein to ratio.
    In the 32/40, the protein is 32% and the fat is 40%. In the 20/50 it's 20% protein and 50% fat.

    One more thing. I know in the past the FV 32/40 was NOT recommended. I believe the thinking
    is that ALL formulas should be mixed using 2 different formulas since no one formula is complete.
    That is why the 32/40 along with the Zoologic is acceptable, because they are not fed alone.
    Let me find the site with the nutritional calculator which allows you to plug in your formula, to see how close it
    is to mother's milk.
    Edit: Here's the site I was referring to.

    I finally found Goat's milk at Wal-mart. It was the Meyenberg powdered formula. I found organic heavy whipping cream and organic plain yogurt with probiotics. So I did the mix with 6 TBS. formula (after mixing it of course since it is powder), 6 TBS. yogurt, 4 TBS. heavy whipping cream and one egg yolk. We also use grass-fed organic non-GMO eggs in this house. I mixed it really good and all 5 squirrels (or rats--thinking now they might be rats but still too soon to tell) ate good. All 5 JUST finished eating about 20 minutes ago. They are all still peeing and pooping too. They still seem dehydrated so I am guessing I need to give them more homemade rehydrating mixture in another hour or so. Earlier today I stopped the Pedialyte and mixed up organic molasses with water and fed that to them until I got the Goat's formula.

    I am ordering syringes right now from Henry's Healthy Pets. I am going to wait on the Fox Valley Formula in case they DO end up being rats just to save money. I already have to give away the Puppy Esbilac because I opened it so Tractor Supply will not take it back. Oh Well. Worth every penny and time to save a pet.

    Can you tell my husband and I (and our kids) LOVE pets. LOL!!

    Thanks so much for everyone's help.

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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirt the Stinker View Post
    I finally found Goat's milk at Wal-mart. It was the Meyenberg powdered formula. I found organic heavy whipping cream and organic plain yogurt with probiotics. So I did the mix with 6 TBS. formula (after mixing it of course since it is powder), 6 TBS. yogurt, 4 TBS. heavy whipping cream and one egg yolk. We also use grass-fed organic non-GMO eggs in this house. I mixed it really good and all 5 squirrels (or rats--thinking now they might be rats but still too soon to tell) ate good. All 5 JUST finished eating about 20 minutes ago. They are all still peeing and pooping too. They still seem dehydrated so I am guessing I need to give them more homemade rehydrating mixture in another hour or so. Earlier today I stopped the Pedialyte and mixed up organic molasses with water and fed that to them until I got the Goat's formula.

    I am ordering syringes right now from Henry's Healthy Pets. I am going to wait on the Fox Valley Formula in case they DO end up being rats just to save money. I already have to give away the Puppy Esbilac because I opened it so Tractor Supply will not take it back. Oh Well. Worth every penny and time to save a pet.

    Can you tell my husband and I (and our kids) LOVE pets. LOL!!

    Thanks so much for everyone's help.

    Can you post a picture of your little ones?
    If you can't post, I will pm you my email if you want to send a picture to me,
    I will post it in your thread.
    Whatever these little ones are, they sure are LUCKY to have found their way to you!

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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York View Post

    Can you post a picture of your little ones?
    If you can't post, I will pm you my email if you want to send a picture to me,
    I will post it in your thread.
    Whatever these little ones are, they sure are LUCKY to have found their way to you!
    I posted SEVERAL pictures yesterday. I don't know what happened because I can't find where I posted them. I will admit I am not very computer savvy. I will try to post them again today. Hope it works. And yes I honestly think now that they ARE rats. Only because they are peeing and pooping on their own. If I remember when I had my baby squirrel it took her a LONG time to pee and poop on her own. Also the rats are sticking their tongue far out and licking the milk off my finger. I on't remember the squirrel doing that. Just all assumptions though. But they are doing great by the way. I was actually a little worried if they were squirrels because of aspiration. I had a time with the squirrel I have now. She ended up aspirated and we had to get her on antibiotics and probiotics because of it (I keep antibiotics just in case in my house for any issues like that that might arise--I also keep probiotics on hand--but the yogurt I am giving the rats/squirrels already has probiotics in it anyway). When we rescued our squirrel she had a brother too. I think he died because of aspiration. And when we rescued them they were much older (their eyes were open) than these rats/squirrels.

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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Here are the pictures. I DO HOPE they come up this time. I will get some better pictures today. Another thing they are growing quickly. I heard rats grow quicker than squirrels. Looks like their eyes are going to be open soon. Also they are wiggling around more. Probably because I am feeding them more (they are not dehydrated anymore) and they are growing bigger. Also they have this fuzz (they feel like velvet). LOL!!Name:  20200604_212103[1].jpg
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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    I was FINALLY able to get the pictures on here. I guess I messed up yesterday when I tried to post them. I thought I posted them but didn't. I was trying to get a picture of their feet. But even their feet look like rat's feet. I thought with a squirrel they would have 4 fingers and a nub. But I read rat's also have that. No brown fingernails either (which I heard is normally a squirrel). Here is a few more cute pictures.Name:  20200604_212103[1].jpg
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    Default Re: PUPPY ESBILAC??

    Yep, I’m pretty certain they’re rats....just judging from the rate of growth. The white toenails are also a give away.

    I know someone else had them for a day or so before you got them. I just wanted to say that momma rats will reclaim their babies if they are placed close to the area they were originally found. The difference between rats and squirrels is that rats need to be placed out and kept warm at night for mom to retrieve them. The same is true for baby raccoons. Squirrels, on the other hand need to be reunited in the daytime.

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