Need some expert advice! Red Squirrel with possible teeth issues and making sounds

[gunpackingrandma]

Ben is almost four years old, weighs 267 grams, has been in perfect health until recently. Diet is very well balanced. We follow the food pyramid chart, limit nuts and our only blocks are from Henry's Pets. Ben gets all kinds of exercise and stimulation both inside and outside his cage. Fur is soft, fluffy and eyes are clear and alert.

We traveled with Ben since last November in our 5th wheel. Ben was still on a routine for out of cage playtime and exercise as we had our 5th wheel custom made with a den to hold a Double Critter Nation cage plus plenty of room to play.

We noticed his chewing on wood was slowing down the past few months. When Ben was younger he was a chainsaw with fur! Spring has arrived and his chewing wood has all but stopped. We offer all kinds of wood, antlers and cuttle bones. Nothing seems to peak his interest. Hasn't even tried to eat my cabinets...lol

About a week ago he started to occasionally make a sound while breathing. The sound is getting more frequent.

I have attached a link with a video of Ben's teeth and breathing. Please forgive my husband's breathing and creepy whispering. I told him not to talk or breath! Lol. Anyway, you can clearly hear Ben's breathing.

The picture with the two balls is to show you how Ben use to play with the big ball and now can't pickup the little ball. He tries then gives up.

As a side note. We were in AZ for the winter. Been back in Montana for three weeks. Should also mention, we have NO medical assistance here.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!



https://photos.app.goo.gl/SJp6Q26AwL7EGDYV7

[gunpackingrandma]

I thought Ben's weight seemed alittle light so purchased a new scale. He actually weighs 310 grams. Wanted to be accurate for dosing properly.

[Diggie's Friend]

His weight is within the normal range for his species.

Yet for reason of his age, if you aren't already including Pycnogenol in his diet, I would add it. . Pycnogenol (extract of the cambium layer of the Maritime pine) provides a surrogate source of the inner tree bark (the living layer) that contains a high polyphenol contents, that is the elixer of life for tree squirrels. Older squirrels that were given this source were reported to have more energy. In rat research, PYC also was found to improve the circulation of the blood vessels and the function of the heart. The dosage for these conditions vary.

Healthy Origins 30 mg. and divided the dose down to 1/8 portion (not tsp.) of the total powder in one capsule given daily in foods.

https://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Orgin...7&s=hpc&sr=1-4

Since rodents age the function of the kidneys lowers so that they progressively retain more and more phosphorus as a result. With the calcium and other nutrients lowering but more phosphorus even so lowered is retained, it changes the in body Ca:P ratio. If the block fed is already a close ratio under (2:1) what is supportive of juveniles, but not adult squirrels, it can put him at risk to developing kidneys stones. For this reason, raising the level of calcium in the diet, in particular with Calcium citrate, not Calcium carbonate, for the citrate form in rats was found to improve and extend lifetime kidney function, yet the C. carbonate for not, as the latter form promotes urinary calculi (calcium crystals) to form n the urine.

By increasing calcium in the diet by adding a bit more calcium in the form of Calcium citrate powder (NOW Brand with no additives available on Amazon.com), can improve kidney function which can lengthen the life function of the kidneys. Adding the Calcium citrate to yogurt is a plus plus, for it has a positive Ca;P ratio, and is a higher calcium source.

NOW Brand carries pure C. citrate powder with no additives. https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Foods-Cal.../dp/B0006ZF9NC

Stonyfield plain organic creamy yogurt is one that has been well vetted in my research diet. Adding a tiny measure of wild grown blueberries whole berry powder to the yogurt (check with me by PM for the measure), that is high in anti oxidants, and also higher in calcium than phosphorus than cultivated blueberries are, is advisable as it helps to inhibit UTI. This is especially important when feeding raw greens to lend support for the mean urine pH. to fall within the mid 6 range. Testing his urine with Urine testing strips is advisable, for if above 7.0, or below 6.0, you can then adjust the diet to better support an optimum healthy mean urine pH that falls in the mid to high 6 range for mean urine pH.

Mission Brand is one that is more comprehensive, yet laboratory rat paper brand will work to determine mean urine pH.

https://www.amazon.com/Urine-Strips-...0133643&sr=8-2

https://www.amazon.com/Litmus-Strips...0133607&sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/Blueberry-Pow...1&s=hpc&sr=1-2

Will send the measure by PM should you desire to include this in your squirrel's diet.

The level of phosphorus in the whole diet, not just the amount of nuts included daily, should be lowered, for as rodents age their kidneys retain more and more phosphorus; this even so all nutrient absorption lowers over time. For this cause their actual Ca:P in body ratio lower, which is harder on the kidneys so that it reduces their function quicker.

http://www.2ndchance.info/ratkidney.htm

No more than (1/2) Tsp. of organic chopped nuts daily; hazelnuts (filberts) the go to nut for this species, 1 hazelnut is about the same measure as this measure. Lowering the amounts and frequency of other foods higher in (P:Ca) , like avocado, is also needful; for though very healthy, this source is very high in ratio of phosphorus to calcium. Meal worms are also a healthy source, yet like avocado very high in P:Ca ratio. Feeding no more than one of these higher phosphorus sources when feeding a block diet, should be limited to no more than (1/4 Tsp.) level measure, and no more than a couple times a week when fed.

[Javarat]

If he is not chewing, but his teeth are not getting too long, then the teeth are not growing.
He isn't chewing because he doesn't need to.
If combined with less active or lethargy.. this sounds like a calcium deficiency.

[Mel1959]

You can try adding calcium to his diet, it certainly won’t hurt.

Low levels of calcium wouldn’t explain the breathing issue. My first thought when teeth and accompanying breathing issues are mentioned is odontomas. Since you have no vet care there I’m at a loss on how you could get an X-ray. This is the only way to definitively diagnose odontomas. Have you called around to vets to see if anyone would see him?

The only other thing I could suggest is a road trip to Florida to see Dr. Alicia Emerson. She is one of the best when it comes to dental issues with squirrels. If you could find a local vet that would do an X-ray she has been known to confer via phone and examine xrays for folks.

[gunpackingrandma]

His weight is within the normal range for his species.

Yet for reason of his age, if you aren't already including Pycnogenol in his diet, I would add it. . Pycnogenol (extract of the cambium layer of the Maritime pine) provides a surrogate source of the inner tree bark (the living layer) that contains a high polyphenol contents, that is the elixer of life for tree squirrels. Older squirrels that were given this source were reported to have more energy. In rat research, PYC also was found to improve the circulation of the blood vessels and the function of the heart. The dosage for these

Healthy Origins 30 mg. and divided the dose down to 1/8 portion (not tsp.) of the total powder in one capsule given daily in foods.

https://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Orgin...7&s=hpc&sr=1-4

Since rodents age the function of the kidneys lowers so that they progressively retain more and more phosphorus as a result. With the calcium and other nutrients lowering but more phosphorus even so lowered is retained, it changes the in body Ca:P ratio. If the block fed is already a close ratio under (2:1) what is supportive of juveniles, but not adult squirrels, it can put him at risk to developing kidneys stones. For this reason, raising the level of calcium in the diet, in particular with Calcium citrate, not Calcium carbonate, for the citrate form in rats was found to improve and extend lifetime kidney function, yet the C. carbonate for not, as the latter form promotes urinary calculi (calcium crystals) to form n the urine.

By increasing calcium in the diet by adding a bit more calcium in the form of Calcium citrate powder (NOW Brand with no additives available on Amazon.com), can improve kidney function which can lengthen the life function of the kidneys. Adding the Calcium citrate to yogurt is a plus plus, for it has a positive Ca;P ratio, and is a higher calcium source.

NOW Brand carries pure C. citrate powder with no additives. https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Foods-Cal.../dp/B0006ZF9NC

Stonyfield plain organic creamy yogurt is one that has been well vetted in my research diet. Adding a tiny measure of wild grown blueberries whole berry powder to the yogurt (check with me by PM for the measure), that is high in anti oxidants, and also higher in calcium than phosphorus than cultivated blueberries are, is advisable as it helps to inhibit UTI. This is especially important when feeding raw greens to lend support for the mean urine pH. to fall within the mid 6 range. Testing his urine with Urine testing strips is advisable, for if above 7.0, or below 6.0, you can then adjust the diet to better support an optimum healthy mean urine pH that falls in the mid to high 6 range for mean urine pH.

Mission Brand is one that is more comprehensive, yet laboratory rat paper brand will work to determine mean urine pH.

https://www.amazon.com/Urine-Strips-...0133643&sr=8-2

https://www.amazon.com/Litmus-Strips...0133607&sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/Blueberry-Pow...1&s=hpc&sr=1-2

Will send the measure by PM should you desire to include this in your squirrel's diet.

The level of phosphorus in the whole diet, not just the amount of nuts included daily, should be lowered, for as rodents age their kidneys retain more and more phosphorus; this even so all nutrient absorption lowers over time. For this cause their actual Ca:P in body ratio lower, which is harder on the kidneys so that it reduces their function quicker.

http://www.2ndchance.info/ratkidney.htm

No more than (1/2) Tsp. of organic chopped nuts daily; hazelnuts (filberts) the go to nut for this species, 1 hazelnut is about the same measure as this measure. Lowering the amounts and frequency of other foods higher in (P:Ca) , like avocado, is also needful; for though very healthy, this source is very high in ratio of phosphorus to calcium. Meal worms are also a healthy source, yet like avocado very high in P:Ca ratio. Feeding no more than one of these higher phosphorus sources when feeding a block diet, should be limited to no more than (1/4 Tsp.) level measure, and no more than a couple times a week when fed.

What is your opinion of the length of Ben's bottom teeth? Do you feel they are the problem?

[gunpackingrandma]

What is your opinion of the length of Ben's bottom teeth? Do you feel they are the problem?

What kind of Hazelnuts should I order?

[Mel1959]

Regular hazelnuts in the shell.

His bottom teeth might be a little long, but at the least they don’t look even.

[Diggie's Friend]

Organic only, otherwise they have been fumigated with pesticide to kill nut weevil worms.
Look online there should be some companies you can order from. Hazelnuts have the best Ca:P ratio over other nuts, do not feed almonds they are far higher in the calcium reducing anti-nutrient (oxalate). Organic English Walnuts also can be fed, lowest in oxalates, Ca:P (1:3.5) . Best source Trader Joe's'brand; this is the source we use to feed our yard wilds. Open the nuts for him for all nuts are susceptible to fungus. Giving a nut in the shell supports wearing down the teeth, yet there is the possibility it may have fungus. Moreover our squirrel would discard the ones with fungus after she opened it up.

Also recommend this source: https://www.seedoilcompany.com/pumpkin-seed-oil

Purchase page: https://www.seedoilcompany.com/produ...mpkin-seed-oil

As with all seed sources they are high in phosphorus, which is another reason to add Calcium citrate to the diet. Frontier Naturals is a source that is the most economical in 1 lb. packages from Amazon.com.

https://www.amazon.com/Frontier-Calc.../dp/B000UYA1T6

Teeth wise, to even them up you can use a new wood (cuticle stick) placed behind the lower incisors to protect the tongue. There is a tutorial, sadly with a deceased squirrel, I have seen online as how to do this. The clippers be good quality;I think the one the rehabbers have used is made in Germany?

Give him untreated deer antlers to wear down his incisors. These may be found at pet store chains; make sure they aren't treated before purchasing them. These are also a good source of calcium, and a natural source in the wild diet of Red squirrels.


What block do you feed? Is he eating much of it?

It is actually normal for squirrels to be less energetic in the spring even in captivity; they are more active in late summer through fall. in early December their activity level once again lowers. Still they shouldn't be lethargic.

I don't think the lethargy is just because of his teeth, though it might play into it. If he were my squirrel i would add the C. citrate and PYC, and PSO to his diet, plus the organic (food grade only) Chia oil from Foods alive also available in a smaller bottle.

https://foodsalive.com/products/orga...il-foods-alive

[gunpackingrandma]

Thank you! I have ordered everything you have suggested. Ben eats one Henry's Pets Picky block in the morning and one at dinner. Occasionally I add a piece of the peanut stick for a treat. The pieces are very small as anything bigger than a match head gets hidden.

Ben's activity level is good. He's been playing and building a new fort. Plays for forty minutes then takes a break then back to playing.

Breathing sounds are not better but not worse. Doesn't act like he's in pain just sounds like he has a stuffy nose with no discharge. On occasion will sneeze. Eyes are clear and bright.

Can you recommend any treats such as pumpkin or sunflower seeds? Looking for best options and variety.

[Diggie's Friend]

In over 50 years of research with a 100 studies, Pycnogenol has been found to be anti-bacterial, anti-viral, anti-oxidant, anti-diabetic, anti-cancer, anti-inflammatory, anti-toxin (liver), improves circulation, kidney function, and skin healing, and analgesic without the side effects of NSAIDS. At a low maintenance dosage it is prophylactic, as it is raised it becomes clinical for some conditions, the greatest of which is cardiomyopathy at 150 mg. ; this far higher than the average clinical dose of 10 mg. for most other conditions.

Should you end up having to give him AB be sure to include the Pet Flora concurently with that treatments. This source is from Safer Medical; I had recommended the source from Vitality Science in the past (same name of product different company), yet recently they significantly changed their formula.

In adding in the Calcium citrate to raise the Ca:P ratio, lower the amount of block or total grain intake. This is best done by giving less than 2 block daily 1 1/2 and raising yogurt the amount of plain yogurt up to 1 1/2 Tsp. daily as long as his weight doesn't go up. that has a positive Ca:P ratio to compensate for the lowering of calories in the diet. Doing this is what will lower the phosphorus intake and raise his calcium intake to support the longevity of his kidneys.

Add (1/16 + 1/32 Tsp.) Calcium citrate powder into yogurt. split fed (1/32 Tsp. + 1/64 Tsp.) between the AM and PM meals daily

[HRT4SQRLS]

Oh little man. I sure would want to see an X-ray of those teeth. Vague respiratory issues are often teeth related. He might have the beginning stages of odontoma. Some grow slowly, others grow very fast. They are not a candidate for surgery when the odontoma are small. Surgery is only done when they are advanced and have become symptomatic like breathing problems, pain or infection. It is an extremely traumatic and risky procedure.

With an X-ray you would have an answer if that is indeed the problem. I hope it is NOT the problem. If it is you would have a better idea of what to look for as far as progression and you would have plenty of time to make decisions. Most are diagnosed in the advanced stage and the owners are thrust into making a critical decision in a hurry.

When they stop chewing things I get nervous about the teeth. Poor little Ben. You know he is one of my favorites, right?

[Diggie's Friend]

When using block diets, adding foods super high in ratio phosphorus to Calcium (pumpkin seeds and sunflower seeds) isn't advisable. Sticking with the hazelnut and walnut for daily measure 1/2 Tsp. of nuts is best with block diets.

To determine if he has a temperature, a digital thermometer can be used rectally with a bit of olive oil to lubricate it. One person to hold the squirrel, and one to very very gently put in the tip of the thermometer. If it doesn't go in easily do not force it.

[SammysMom]

As was said by HRT, an xray is what would tell if it is odontoma. It is not a lack of calcium with the diet you feed. Giving too much calcium. Cam cause a myriad of problems so don't oversupplement.

[Diggie's Friend]

Non-friendly States sadly, hard to find a vet to support your pet with a vet.

As far as the amount of calcium, the amount i noted is to 'replace' the amount of Calcium in 1/2 HHB, which the total then comes to just short of 275 mg. with the measure for the Calcium citrate plush that in 1 1/2 HHB blocks. It isn't then more calcium, just the ratio of Ca:P is greater for having reduced the block by 1/2 total out of 2 blocks daily since the block is the main source of phosphorus in the diet. The goal then not to raise the calcium for it isn't raised in making this adjustment, only the phosphorus to lower it.

[gunpackingrandma]

We are working on locating a Vet in Montana, Idaho or Washington. Anyone have any suggestions?

Does the wonderful Vet in Florida due video appointments? I know it's not a Xray but may offer some help?

If it is odontomas can someone please explain to me what to look out for and what I can do to be prepared?

[CritterMom]

Send a PM to our member Duckman. He is a rehabber in Vancouver, WA, but I know his rehab group has a pretty good sized network and he might possibly be able to steer you to someone who isn't a country away from you.

[HRT4SQRLS]

We are working on locating a Vet in Montana, Idaho or Washington. Anyone have any suggestions?

Does the wonderful Vet in Florida due video appointments? I know it's not a Xray but may offer some help?

If it is odontomas can someone please explain to me what to look out for and what I can do to be prepared?

The vet in FL would need digital X-rays to view. At that point she definitely does consults by phone. She will tell you if odontoma are present and an idea of what stage. Because Ben is not showing distress at this point she would probably say that surgery is not indicated regardless of the X-rays. Her favorite saying is that, “I don’t treat X-rays. I treat the patient.”

A base line X-ray of the teeth is good to have. If his symptoms progress you will have something to use as a comparison. The symptoms of odontoma are initially vague respiratory symptoms like a cold. You might see a runny nose. They often will have white tears in the eyes due to pain. They will stop chewing in-shell nuts or other hard foods. It can progress to the point that they stop eating. The top incisors will stop growing. This is because they are growing backwards instead of outward. Sometimes the top incisors disappear. The bottom teeth will overgrow and need trimming because of the short or absent top incisors. A normal incisor has an angled chiseled edge. An incisor with odontoma has a blunt square edge.

This discussion is hypothetical. The only way to diagnose odontoma is with an X-ray so we don’t know if this is Ben’s problem. I hope it is not.

[gunpackingrandma]

Thank you for the information. We might catch a break with locating a Veterinarian for a xray. I also rescue raccoons and placed some for release last year on a Indian Reservation. Apparently the laws are different regarding treatment of wild animals. My contact is going to verify if they are able to assist in taking xrays on such a small animal. Praying they can so we know what's going on.

[gunpackingrandma]

Send a PM to our member Duckman. He is a rehabber in Vancouver, WA, but I know his rehab group has a pretty good sized network and he might possibly be able to steer you to someone who isn't a country away from you.

Wonderful idea! Will definitely reach out to him.