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Thread: PYOMETRA

  1. #1
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    Default PYOMETRA

    I took Rosie to the vet today because she in my opinion has been in heat for too long and she was still swollen. There are no changes in her activity or eating habits, she's happy-go-lucky, active good appetite. The vet that examined her thinks she may have pyometra and has been put on Baytril twice a day and it is suggested she be spayed. I guess my question would be is this common for a squirrel, is it something I need to worry about, is it possible she does have this, and also how necessary or how dangerous could it be to have her spayed
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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    I know nothing about this condition but I do know there are folks on here that have had their female squirrels spayed for medical reasons. I think the most important aspect of surgery for a squirrel is the competence of the vet regarding anesthesia as well as familiarity with squirrels.

    Dr. Alicia Emerson in Port Orange, Fl, is one of the best squirrel vets in the country. She has been known to confer with other vets regarding squirrels. If you’d like to reach out to her her office number is 386-788-1550.

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  4. #3
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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    The vet did mention caution with different types if sedation. She works with wildlife and from what I'm told she knows squirrels.
    To all my babies past and present..
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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    Recently a member of the board contacted me in regard to their female having developed a case of vaginitis with an open uterus presenting with swelling and a creamy white discharge. Though the heat has to run it's course, the swelling was not abating. In using the following protocol this condition was resolved in this squirrel.

    In having addressed this same condition in our female in the past with AB. it was not found to be effective in addressing the infection during her heats save for it going septic, and did not result in it from re-occurring with each heat.

    That said, when the uterus is closed pyometra that becomes a life threatening condition.

    http://ratguide.com/health/reproductive/pyometra.php

    It is note worthy that the use of AB is listed as one of the causes of the development of vaginitis during heats.

    https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.co...ding_911df0-ae
    pyometra.php

    Antibiotic or steroid use that interferes with the normal balance of bacteria in the reproductive tract
    For this reason, short of an infection in a closed uterus, the first and best line of defense for vaginitis in an open uterus where a creamy white discharge is observed, is pre/probiotics with polyphenols to address vaginitis,

    Giving Lactobacillus Casei after AB treatment was found to slow recovery. In addition, some animals are senstive to dairy, resulting in bloating not resolution of vaginitis. Soil based gut flora is like upon that squirrels have in the wild, not dairy, so it is the first line of defense that works with their natural diet, the dairy is secondary and can cause bloating in some animals that are sensitive to it.

    Soil based pre + probiotics along with two powerful sources of polyphenol (Pycnogenol and Milk Thistle seed), do much more than the probiotics alone to counter vaginitis.

    https://www.amazon.com/Vitality-Scie...8838421&sr=8-2

    Pycnogenol is well tolerated in rats; researched over 50 years in over 100 studies many of them in rats, PYC was found to be low in toxicity above 500 to 1000 mg. It is an extract of the cambium layer of the Pinaster (maritime) pine. Though the highest dosage i have seen noted, 150 mg. for cardiomyopathy, for supporting the balanced gut biome much lower would be advisable, for high levels of tannins can disrupt digestion. Om this balance is the key in overcoming and preventing vaginitis.

    For adult squirrel for maintenance, one eighth portion of one capsule daily divided dosed split between the AM and PM meal.

    https://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Orgin...grocery&sr=8-4

    For adult squirrels for maintenance, include MTS (organic) liquid, include 1 needle drop from a 1 cc ml syringe into the food daily, and 2 needle drops for toxins. Beyond this, you would need to consult with your Vet for greater than 2 needle drops from this source.

    Adding these to a small measure of the organic plain lowfat yogurt (1/2 to 1 Tsp. twice daily.)

    Adding this organic low alcohol source of vanilla extract to cover the taste that will be new to a squirrel would be advisable, for the MTS doesn't taste good, and PYC may put a squirrel off accepting it initially. 1 drop this vanilla extract into 1 to 2 Tsp. of the organic plain low fat yogurt daily.

    https://www.amazon.com/Simply-Organi.../dp/B0002UN7PI

    With spaying, calcium in the diet has to be raised to counter the severe drop in the absorption level of calcium into the bloodstream from the drop in estrogen. It is hard to say how much would be needed to raise the calcium, yet Vit. D3 should not be raised as doing this in rats has been found to result in the development of kidney stones. Yet having seen the result of spaying our girl, which even with her diet then fortified with three separate sources of calcium, it still resulted in the development of the destabilization of her spine which that resulted in painful spasms due to the drop in estrogen from spaying. Then in two more years she reached advanced MBD.

    It is hard then to say how much calcium would be needed to prevent this condition. in human women what is available only slows it from happening using a source (CCM) that is bad tasting, which is why it is best taken by capsule, whichisn't doable of course for rodents. With this, Vit. D3 should not be raised as doing this in rats has been found to result in the development of kidney stones.

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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    I'm not sure I understand all that you posted. Are you saying ABwill make her worse? During her heat I didn't see that her vaginal area was open just swollen. And should she be spayed are you saying she needs added calcium?
    To all my babies past and present..
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  10. #6
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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    This is Rosie about 3 weeks into heat. As you can see she's still swollen yet closed. I checked her daily and never saw her open, just swollen. And when I felt around her area I could feel hard swelling inside her. That's her uterus. She didn't have any discharge , or smell nor was she open at any time.
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    To all my babies past and present..
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    and be loved unconditionally....
    RIP Timothy

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  12. #7
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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    As the article I posted the link to and others online explain, if the uterus is open and their is discharge it is best to try the soil based symbiotic (pre and probiotics) as they work with the body to counter the bad bacteria, not against it. Another squirrel on the board chose to support with soil based good bacteria and it resolved the problem with no AB in an open uterus. It may be that the soil based pre-probiotic might help to open the uterus, can't hurt add it as it should be part of the daily nutritional health regimen.

    Having an enlarge area potentially could be due to one or more of several causes during heats that are often related to the diet. Diverticum (bladder polyp) can form due to bladder crystals promoted by a diet that is too alkaline in mean urine pH.. An abscessed ovary can be related to feeding a block that contains soy or other estrogen promoting substances like pesticides, which raise estrogen in the body to abnormal levels. Pyometra in a closed uterus, as you have considered, can lead to a septic uterus.

    Vets investigate what the enlarged area is and prescribe meds and/or surgery etc. to address it.

    My focus is on how diet can promote or degrade health in adult tree squirrels.
    Last edited by TubeDriver; 05-07-2020 at 08:11 PM.

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  14. #8
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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    I've been monitoring Rosie since she came into heat and she's very affectionate always rolls over on her back so I can rub her belly I have never seen her vaginal area open only swollen and I know for certain she never had a discharge or even a foul smell. I don't think Rosie has the same condition you mention. As of this evening her antibiotics Baytril have been discontinued and I will be speaking to the vet tomorrow and we'll see what we can do
    To all my babies past and present..
    Thank you for showing me how to love
    and be loved unconditionally....
    RIP Timothy

  15. #9
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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    As for the issue of calcium Rosie just gets a good share of calcium she still drinks the full mixture of Fox Valley every morning and she eats a good balanced meal daily she has Apple, blueberries, grapes, broccoli, mushroom, tomato, avacado, artichoke, and she's been eating a lot of seed pods from our maple tree she gets a good variety and she is a good eater.
    To all my babies past and present..
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    and be loved unconditionally....
    RIP Timothy

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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    In squirrels 3 years and over all the block diets are too low in Ca:P ratio. Why is for reason that as rodents age their ability to absorb calcium lowers, and concurrently with that their kidneys retain more phosphorus, which effectually lowers the Ca:P ratio. With the addition of allot of seeds there is the need for extra calcium to offset it.

  17. #11
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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    Rosie is 9 months, but I will discus this with her vet.
    To all my babies past and present..
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    and be loved unconditionally....
    RIP Timothy

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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    Does anyone else have advice for Tiny Paws?
    We live in a heaven created by our virtues --- Muktananda

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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    Bump***
    We live in a heaven created by our virtues --- Muktananda

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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    The don't tend to come into estrus until about 11 months of age. Was it confirmed that this is the uterus, or is that your assumption it is.

    Has your squirrel ever been given a round of antibiotics before this? How old was she when she was rescued?

    Has she ever been given probiotics with prebiotics (symbiotics) in her diet?

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  22. #15
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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    She was seen by the vet it was confirmed that she has been in heat she was put on an antibiotic I heard that's a very good Wildlife veterinarian and comes highly rated rosy-cheeked began 4 weeks ago she was swollen she was rubbing her bottom the normal common things a female squirrel will do when they are in heat plus being swollen however during that time there were no discharge and she did not seem to have any discomfort she was very affectionate with me and the longer she stayed in heat the more worried I became. Yes most squirrels enter estrus add an older age Rosie is around nine months old he could be 10 there was no guarantee on her exact age 2 week was guessing when I got her however there are reports of squirrels coming into estrus at a younger age we are doing everything we can for her she just been to the vet on the medication she has not shown the signs of the illness yet I do not want to wait until she does because then that means that it could be more dangerous to have the surgery she will be getting it done very soon I have great confidence in my vet and with the staff that she works with and I believe Rosie is in good hands and she will be okay
    To all my babies past and present..
    Thank you for showing me how to love
    and be loved unconditionally....
    RIP Timothy

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  24. #16
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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    She was seen by the vet it was confirmed that she has been in heat she was put on an antibiotic I heard that's a very good Wildlife veterinarian and comes highly rated rosy-cheeked began 4 weeks ago she was swollen she was rubbing her bottom the normal common things a female squirrel will do when they are in heat plus being swollen however during that time there were no discharge and she did not seem to have any discomfort she was very affectionate with me and the longer she stayed in heat the more worried I became. Yes most squirrels enter estrus add an older age Rosie is around nine months old he could be 10 there was no guarantee on her exact age 2 week was guessing when I got her however there are reports of squirrels coming into estrus at a younger age we are doing everything we can for her she just been to the vet on the medication she has not shown the signs of the illness yet I do not want to wait until she does because then that means that it could be more dangerous to have the surgery she will be getting it done very soon I have great confidence in my vet and with the staff that she works with and I believe Rosie is in good hands and she will be okay
    To all my babies past and present..
    Thank you for showing me how to love
    and be loved unconditionally....
    RIP Timothy

  25. #17
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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    It would be nice if I could get a rehabber's opinions on all of this.
    To all my babies past and present..
    Thank you for showing me how to love
    and be loved unconditionally....
    RIP Timothy

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  27. #18
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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    Hey, old timer!

    Well, I'm not a rehabber but I am another TSB old timer. Doing a spay on an animal before the uterus becomes a pus filled mess - and they can - is ALWAYS going to be a better thing. If your vet thinks this is going to go south, doing it before then is a no brainer.

    What I would look for in a vet is one that has a lot of small animal experience - someone who has spayed a bunch of rats would be great, and someone who has a lot of experience with anesthesia and who has someone other than the vet who is monitoring the anesthesia constantly. That is ALWAYS the thing that frightens me the most about surgery on these guys. If there was a way that it was 100% safe I would have absolutely neutered both of my boy squirrels - not for behavioral issues, but because it totally eliminates cancers in areas that they tend to want to form.

    Also, you are a squirrel veteran so you KNOW how fussy they are about things they think shouldn't be there - like scabs on your hands that they MUST remove for you...and stitches. Collaring a squirrel is almost impossible - their little bullet heads are about the same circumference as their necks so unless it is tight enough to strangle them they can slip it right off. Ask your vet to do these three things: 1- Do internal sutures so there are no exposed stitches to see and mangle; 2- Apply blobs of either nail polish or fast drying glue to a bunch of places in her fur that are nowhere near the incision. It will give her something to mess with and try to get out of her fur that are not going to hurt her and will occupy her so she leaves the incision alone; and 3- In the same vein, cut a couple narrow strips of vet wrap and wrap it around her wrists in little bracelets so she can mess around with those. These three things should be done right after the surgery when she is recovering from the anesthesia, so she wakes up with them there. You will still need to watch her like a hawk but if she has something really obvious to fiddle with and try to get off of her she may not even notice her incision.

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  29. #19
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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    Hey, old timer!

    Well, I'm not a rehabber but I am another TSB old timer. Doing a spay on an animal before the uterus becomes a pus filled mess - and they can - is ALWAYS going to be a better thing. If your vet thinks this is going to go south, doing it before then is a no brainer.

    What I would look for in a vet is one that has a lot of small animal experience - someone who has spayed a bunch of rats would be great, and someone who has a lot of experience with anesthesia and who has someone other than the vet who is monitoring the anesthesia constantly. That is ALWAYS the thing that frightens me the most about surgery on these guys. If there was a way that it was 100% safe I would have absolutely neutered both of my boy squirrels - not for behavioral issues, but because it totally eliminates cancers in areas that they tend to want to form.

    Also, you are a squirrel veteran so you KNOW how fussy they are about things they think shouldn't be there - like scabs on your hands that they MUST remove for you...and stitches. Collaring a squirrel is almost impossible - their little bullet heads are about the same circumference as their necks so unless it is tight enough to strangle them they can slip it right off. Ask your vet to do these three things: 1- Do internal sutures so there are no exposed stitches to see and mangle; 2- Apply blobs of either nail polish or fast drying glue to a bunch of places in her fur that are nowhere near the incision. It will give her something to mess with and try to get out of her fur that are not going to hurt her and will occupy her so she leaves the incision alone; and 3- In the same vein, cut a couple narrow strips of vet wrap and wrap it around her wrists in little bracelets so she can mess around with those. These three things should be done right after the surgery when she is recovering from the anesthesia, so she wakes up with them there. You will still need to watch her like a hawk but if she has something really obvious to fiddle with and try to get off of her she may not even notice her incision.
    Yes I know you. Thanks for responding. I love the advice that you gave me it is something I would not have thought to ask because yeah I do know how these little critters are about anything new on their body and some sad stories through the years on TBS that I don't want to go through. I wrote down the list and will discuss it with my vet for her to do. There are not many choices for me to have my squirrels to taken care of so in that respect I am Limited but I have a good friend who is a vet tech he took care of Timothy he took care of Tiffany he took care of Dylan through his that that he works for and so I know they are good and they have a lot of experience with wildlife and small animals and I will have to trust them one way or another Rosie is going to need to have this done because the outcome of not saying when they have pyometra is fatal and at the moment she is still very active she has a very good appetite as she's a rowdy little girl and this would be the best time to have her fixed rather than wait for this pyometra 2 start making her feel sick
    To all my babies past and present..
    Thank you for showing me how to love
    and be loved unconditionally....
    RIP Timothy

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  31. #20
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    Default Re: PYOMETRA

    I can only add that it won't hurt if you give her the soil based bacteria as this helps the body fights pyometra infection naturally.

    If she is spayed you will need to increase the calcium in her diet, for the drop in estrogen from spaying will significantly lower

    the absorption of of calcium into her bloodstream. Please share this file of this study journal on the effects of spaying in female rats, resulting in osteoporosis with your veterinarian. After a year or two it reaches the spine in degenerative bone disease disestablishing it causing painful spasm that debilitates the animal with painful spasms due to the instability that the drop in estrogen from spaying results in.

    If it isn't needful to spay, then it is a better choice to treat with AB and synbiotics (pre and probiotics) to control this condition, to give AB during heats, whereas meds to control the spasms that aren't well effective are required to give twice daily for the rest of the life of the squirrel.

    If not, then the diet will need to be boosted in calcium considerably to offset this problem with Calcium citrate and Magnesium citrate, which were found in Calcium carbonate readily bonds wiwh oxalic acid making what is bonded into Calcium oxalate (insoluble) no longer available to the body to support the bones.
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    Last edited by TubeDriver; 05-13-2020 at 07:30 AM.

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