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Thread: Grays or ????

  1. #1
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    Default Grays or ????

    These new Grays were given to me for rehabilitation. There trees were cut down and the mom could not be found. They are grays but they looks so different from all my others. They have shorter noses, tiny ears and huge kangaroo type feet. They are smaller than normal at this age. I have my rehabbed mama that came back to have her babies on Feb 3 and they are so much bigger. Are their miniature grays and I have never seen them before or what? I am in Mississippi.
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    To the one who stole my heart forever! Alli I love and miss you, til i see you again

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    I'm sure someone with more knowledge will chime in, but omygosh they are so cute!!!

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  5. #3
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    Crystal, they are definitely greys. Occasionally we see dwarf squirrels that are a genetic anomaly.
    While that is definitely a possibility, I canít imagine 3 dwarfs in a single litter. Interestingly, dwarfs typically have a short face and ears that are slightly down from the normal positioning of the ears.

    Post pics of each individual babies. Do you have a history on the babies? How long were they without mom?

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  7. #4
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    I wonder if maybe they're suffering from malnutrition.

    I was given a little red this year who we thought might be a dwarf someone had found in an area not usually populated by reds but he was ao small and yet had his eyes open and acted much wilder than his presumed age. Heck! My husband nicknamed him killer Over the course of the very first week, we realized that although he took his formula really well, he always seemed hungry. He did have some teeth, so I left block in his cage... and boy! He started packing those in as well like a champ, as well as vegetables and his formula. Within some 3 to 4 weeks there he was, a full size red! Seems he had been so malnourished he looked like a baby.

    That's why I'm wondering if maybe momma didn't have enough to properly feed her 3 (?) and they simply may appear small. That might explain the larger than usual feet? I dunno, just sayin'...
    "In the midst of our lives we must find the magic that makes our souls soar."
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  9. #5
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    Sweet babies!

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  11. #6
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    I'm with Scooterzmom above: I think they are very malnourished, underdeveloped yet ADORABLE little grey babies. Their feet and heads grow first and look huge because their bodies have had nothing to plump up on for days.....when they fill out they will be fine, I'm betting. (Although, that one's little face sure does look dwarfish -- the low set ears and droopy eyes....)
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  13. #7
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    They are so precious! i am weighing and feeding accordingly. They just don't seem to be getting much bigger. They were not without mom more than 2 days. Around 5 weeks.

    To the one who stole my heart forever! Alli I love and miss you, til i see you again

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  15. #8
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    What is the formula you are feeding?
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  17. #9
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    Just precious.
    I would be surprised if that little one whose face we
    can see, isn't a dwarf. It sure looks like one.

    What are the weights on these little ones? That might tell us
    more.

    Edit: I just looked at the picture again. Is that a branch sticking
    out on the left hand side? I thought it was his ear, and immediately
    thought dwarf. Now looking at it again, I think it's a branch behind him.
    Still has the dwarf features, but if that's a branch, then the left ear
    isn't as low as I initially thought.
    Last edited by Nancy in New York; 03-26-2020 at 07:31 AM.

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  19. #10
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    When we raised a litter of orphan babies; one was a bit smaller than the other two.

    We thought he was a runt from not getting as much milk as the other two; yet over time he caught up in size,

    and was the first one to climb of the litter of three. I hope the little one can catch up, not then a dwarf.

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  21. #11
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    Quote Originally Posted by stepnstone View Post
    What is the formula you are feeding?
    I have ALWAYS used the Esbilac Goats Milk with every litter I have had.

    To the one who stole my heart forever! Alli I love and miss you, til i see you again

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  23. #12
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    To answer some questions, their eyes were open when I got them so they had to have been 5-6 weeks. I have now had them for 2 weeks. I have given them some of the Squirrel Mans mix with crushed pecans and vitamins mixed with baby food. They like it but I don't give a whole lot. What concerns me is they are still only weighing 88 and 85 grams!! They are tiny but after feeding I am sure to check the bellies and they are soft and plump. Any other suggestions or ideas are always welcome! Those of you who know me know that I love these babies with all my heart and want nothing but the best for them!

    To the one who stole my heart forever! Alli I love and miss you, til i see you again

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  25. #13
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    Hi Crystal. I just have to tell you. I donít know when you raised your last babies but things have changed DRASTICALLY since the fall of last year. Last year babies started dying and developing Metabolic Bone Disease. Literally hundreds of babies died and if you include other wildlife, the numbers were probably near a thousand. It was a nightmare. The common denominator was PetAg Esbilac. The company acknowledged a problem and felt it was due to a course grind of dicalcium phosphate that wasnít being absorbed by the babies. I personally donít believe this. A wildlife group has taken on the investigation of many different formulas used for wildlife.
    After extensive testing, IMO there was no answer other than the fact that most formulas, including PetAgs are nutritionally deficient. Some are worse than others. In my opinion it does not explain the healthy ones that died soon after starting formula.

    There were reports of rehabbers using Goat Milk Esbilac having problems also BUT because there arenít as many rehabbers using the GME, the number of problems were less. One glaring problem that was detected with the GME was that ALL of the different lot numbers of GME were rancid based on high levels of peroxides. They were not just rancid, they were extremely rancid. PetAg has had this problem with their products in the past. Iím sorry, but they are just a bad company.

    If you have had these babies for two weeks and they havenít gained any weight, that is a HUGE red flag. They will start failing soon. Please order FoxValley 20:50 ASAP!!! If by the squirrel man you are referring to Bill Sells, please donít use his products. When on a properly performing formula, baby squirrels should not need vitamins. I can guarantee you, there is a problem with the GME if they arenít gaining weight.

    Your last words in the post were, ďI love these babies with all of my heart and want nothing but the best for them.Ē I totally believe that. The way to turn this around is to get them on FoxValley 20:50 ASAP.

    Last season nearly gutted me watching all the babies suffer and die. Many had broken bones as the bones crumbled. I wonít ever forget it and Iíll never forgive PetAg either. Please get them off of GME as soon as possible.

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  27. #14
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    Hi Crystal. I just have to tell you. I donít know when you raised your last babies but things have changed DRASTICALLY since the fall of last year. Last year babies started dying and developing Metabolic Bone Disease. Literally hundreds of babies died and if you include other wildlife, the numbers were probably near a thousand. It was a nightmare. The common denominator was PetAg Esbilac. The company acknowledged a problem and felt it was due to a course grind of dicalcium phosphate that wasnít being absorbed by the babies. I personally donít believe this. A wildlife group has taken on the investigation of many different formulas used for wildlife.
    After extensive testing, IMO there was no answer other than the fact that most formulas, including PetAgs are nutritionally deficient. Some are worse than others. In my opinion it does not explain the healthy ones that died soon after starting formula.

    There were reports of rehabbers using Goat Milk Esbilac having problems also BUT because there arenít as many rehabbers using the GME, the number of problems were less. One glaring problem that was detected with the GME was that ALL of the different lot numbers of GME were rancid based on high levels of peroxides. They were not just rancid, they were extremely rancid. PetAg has had this problem with their products in the past. Iím sorry, but they are just a bad company.

    If you have had these babies for two weeks and they havenít gained any weight, that is a HUGE red flag. They will start failing soon. Please order FoxValley 20:50 ASAP!!! If by the squirrel man you are referring to Bill Sells, please donít use his products. When on a properly performing formula, baby squirrels should not need vitamins. I can guarantee you, there is a problem with the GME if they arenít gaining weight.

    Your last words in the post were, ďI love these babies with all of my heart and want nothing but the best for them.Ē I totally believe that. The way to turn this around is to get them on FoxValley 20:50 ASAP.

    Last season nearly gutted me watching all the babies suffer and die. Many had broken bones as the bones crumbled. I wonít ever forget it and Iíll never forgive PetAg either. Please get them off of GME as soon as possible.
    I have experienced MBD upfront and personal and it is horrible! Thank you for the information so very much! Hopefully they can get the foxvalley out to me quickly! I will order it right now! Thank you so much!!!

    To the one who stole my heart forever! Alli I love and miss you, til i see you again

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  29. #15
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    I have experienced MBD upfront and personal and it is horrible! Thank you for the information so very much! Hopefully they can get the foxvalley out to me quickly! I will order it right now! Thank you so much!!!
    Just found it on Amazon and ordered!!! Thank You!!

    To the one who stole my heart forever! Alli I love and miss you, til i see you again

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  31. #16
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    Thank you Crystal. I am so happy that you received this message with the spirit it was intended. It is nothing you did wrong. It is the formula. These babies should be gaining weight rapidly at this point. Because they are not, I am 100% certain it is the formula. I know that shipping is all over the place due to the CV pandemic. I hope your formula arrives soon.

    When it arrives I would do a transition to the FoxValley. When they are transitioned well I would add a teaspoon of heavy cream to each batch of formula. This will help to fatten these babies up.

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  33. #17
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    I have heard of serious delays with Amazon lately. If you find they canít get it to you soon I would order another bag from Henryís Healthy Pets. They might be able to get it to you faster. Neither bag will go to waste as these 3 will start taking a LOT of formula as they grow. They will easily go through two bags and might even need another before they wean.

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  35. #18
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    I have heard of serious delays with Amazon lately. If you find they canít get it to you soon I would order another bag from Henryís Healthy Pets. They might be able to get it to you faster. Neither bag will go to waste as these 3 will start taking a LOT of formula as they grow. They will easily go through two bags and might even need another before they wean.
    They say I should have it by Tuesday at the latest. They are including animal food also as Essential Needs! Thank goodness! And as I said before these sweet babies are just as important to me as my own children and advice is always great! I have not had babies since Feb 2019 so I was unaware of the formula situation! Thank God for YOU!!!

    To the one who stole my heart forever! Alli I love and miss you, til i see you again

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  37. #19
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    They say I should have it by Tuesday at the latest. They are including animal food also as Essential Needs! Thank goodness! And as I said before these sweet babies are just as important to me as my own children and advice is always great! I have not had babies since Feb 2019 so I was unaware of the formula situation! Thank God for YOU!!!
    So glad to hear that.

    I raised a singleton in the spring 2019 on Esbilac and had no problems at all either. I raised a healthy boy to release. We started seeing troubling signs around September if I remember right. Babies started having lumps on the limbs. On X-ray, these lumps were clearly severely, broken bones. More troubling than broken bones was the clear signs of advanced MBD. At first, it seemed an anomaly. Then there was a second and then a third. Facebook wildlife groups started reporting the same thing and than BAM. They were everywhere and it was always linked back to Esbilac and occasionally to GME.

    You wouldnít have known. We had used Esbilac and some used GME for years and then, it failed us badly.

    Iím going to leave this up to you. You might want to switch them to the Goat Milk temporary formula until the FoxValley arrives. You can use either the traditional recipe... 3 parts goat milk... 1 part heavy cream... 1 part full fat yogurt. OR, There is a new goat milk recipe that has more nutrients than the original. The ingredients are the same with different portions of the ingredients and it has a 1/2 egg yolk.

    The reason I mention this is because of a syndrome called refeeding syndrome. In cases of extreme malnutrition, if you suddenly give nutrition the body goes into a metabolic collapse. I actually saw this once and it broke my heart. The baby had been on a deficient formula (donít remember what it way) for many weeks. When proper formula was given the baby stared going downhill rapidly and eventually died. I wasnít even aware of refeeding syndrome. It might be a good idea to get them on the goat milk and then slowly transition to the FoxValley.

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  39. #20
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    Default Re: Grays or ????

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    So glad to hear that.

    I raised a singleton in the spring 2019 on Esbilac and had no problems at all either. I raised a healthy boy to release. We started seeing troubling signs around September if I remember right. Babies started having lumps on the limbs. On X-ray, these lumps were clearly severely, broken bones. More troubling than broken bones was the clear signs of advanced MBD. At first, it seemed an anomaly. Then there was a second and then a third. Facebook wildlife groups started reporting the same thing and than BAM. They were everywhere and it was always linked back to Esbilac and occasionally to GME.

    You wouldnít have known. We had used Esbilac and some used GME for years and then, it failed us badly.

    Iím going to leave this up to you. You might want to switch them to the Goat Milk temporary formula until the FoxValley arrives. You can use either the traditional recipe... 3 parts goat milk... 1 part heavy cream... 1 part full fat yogurt. OR, There is a new goat milk recipe that has more nutrients than the original. The ingredients are the same with different portions of the ingredients and it has a 1/2 egg yolk.

    The reason I mention this is because of a syndrome called refeeding syndrome. In cases of extreme malnutrition, if you suddenly give nutrition the body goes into a metabolic collapse. I actually saw this once and it broke my heart. The baby had been on a deficient formula (donít remember what it way) for many weeks. When proper formula was given the baby stared going downhill rapidly and eventually died. I wasnít even aware of refeeding syndrome. It might be a good idea to get them on the goat milk and then slowly transition to the FoxValley.
    I have all of those things here at home so I will begin that at their next feeding. Again, I cannot thank you enough for this information! That breaks my heart that babies have died over this, I know they get away with these things all the time but I have hope in my heart that in some way they will have to face judgement on what they have done! Especially if they are not being honest. I will start the regular goats milk mix and will touch base to let you know how it is going. I lost my precious girl of almost 5 years this past year and nothing has ever hurt so bad in my life, and I lost a husband, my father and my sister before I was 30. Now 41. They certainly grab your heart! But also when you do finally release and see their sweet faces and how happy they are it is such an amazing feeling!! And lots of emotions as well LOL! But it is just like our kids, you raise them up the best you can and send them out into the world. Thanks again for everything!

    To the one who stole my heart forever! Alli I love and miss you, til i see you again

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