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Thread: Vomiting

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    Oh, that is so good to hear. I wonder if she just got herself dehydrated for some reason? If she was feeling crappy from low calcium, it can be too much work to go to the bottle or dish. and dehydration can take them down fast. Hmm.

    You HAVE to get her on some sort of blocks. I know that the shipping costs from the US are terrible. It is a shame - Henry's has introduced a new hazelnut block that they all love. My FLYER likes them and they don't like ANYTHING healthy, the rotten little jerks! These are pretty good blocks - I found these at a Canadian site: https://www.chinchilla.ca/detail.php?ProductID=HT201410

    For her to like them, they will probably need to be gussied up a bit with some yummy stuff. Many people use them as the basis of do it yourself blocks. I would also order some of this: https://ca.iherb.com/pr/Now-Foods-Ca...2-oz-340-g/480 also from a Canadian company. I would be happy to help you craft a recipe that she just may be willing to eat if you wish.

    Don't let her run around too much. They hide their illness until it is so acute they simply can't anymore. She isn't 100% yet but it sure sounds like she is headed that way!
    The vet did say she was a bit dehydrated, even though she was drinking pedialite for a day. But I think those fluids he gave her yesterday helped a lot. Last night she also drank a lot of water, she was drinking for almost a full minute before she stopped. All great signs!

    Thank you so much! I will get these ordered right away. I'll go for the hazelnut, if she likes that, then I'll see if we can find a recipe for it somewhere!

    Ya shes been hopping and running a bit in her cage while we were making dinner. She just wanted out of her cage and to be around me. The house is quite again, so she's settled down and will probably sleep more. I'm going to put her back into her transport cage and have her in my room with me tonight when I go to bed.

    What are your thoughts on feeding her the veggies? Also, would it be ok to give her an almond here and there?

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  3. #62
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverline View Post
    The vet did say she was a bit dehydrated, even though she was drinking pedialite for a day. But I think those fluids he gave her yesterday helped a lot. Last night she also drank a lot of water, she was drinking for almost a full minute before she stopped. All great signs!

    Thank you so much! I will get these ordered right away. I'll go for the hazelnut, if she likes that, then I'll see if we can find a recipe for it somewhere!

    Ya shes been hopping and running a bit in her cage while we were making dinner. She wants out of her cage and to be around me. The house is quite again, so she's settled down and will probably sleep more. I'm going to put her back into her transport cage and have her in my room with me tonight when I go to bed.

    What are your thoughts on feeding her the veggies? Also, would it be ok to give her an almond here and there?
    The Hazelnut blocks are from Henrys: https://www.henryspets.com/hazelnut-...rats-and-mice/ But they are from the US and so the shipping is high. You might send an email or even call the number on the site and speak to Leigh, the owner (she is a TSB member). If there is a way to ship it to you any cheaper, she will know it.

    I don't see any reason she can't have her veggies. Keep the nuts to a minimum - I either buy slivers or cut them into little pieces so it feels like more. Hold them down to one or two a week until you get her on a block food that will continue to support her calcium levels.

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  5. #63
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    The Hazelnut blocks are from Henrys: https://www.henryspets.com/hazelnut-...rats-and-mice/ But they are from the US and so the shipping is high. You might send an email or even call the number on the site and speak to Leigh, the owner (she is a TSB member). If there is a way to ship it to you any cheaper, she will know it.

    I don't see any reason she can't have her veggies. Keep the nuts to a minimum - I either buy slivers or cut them into little pieces so it feels like more. Hold them down to one or two a week until you get her on a block food that will continue to support her calcium levels.
    That's fine. I don't mind buying them to try out. Hazelnuts are her favorite. I'll reach out to her though, and see if there is another avenue. I'll also order some stuff from the Canadian links as well. I'd like to have a good supply on hand while I trial between them

    That sounds good. I'll wait to give her any nuts at all at least until she's off her meds then. Better to be on the safe side.

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  7. #64
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Just an update on Trooper. She seems to be getting a lot of her energy back. Though still weak and recovering. She's being vocal again is curious and jumps out of bed at every movement in the house. She still has quite the appetite, so the meds seem to be agreeing with her. No issues on peeing or pooping.
    I'm still waiting for the blood results. They were supposed to be in today. I'll phone them in the morning to find out. Otherwise no news is good news I guess.
    Trooper does seem to be recovering, so I'm more at ease.
    I'll keep posting updates.

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  9. #65
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Baked Butternut squash has a positive Ca:P ratio. If Butternut isn't available get Acorn Squash.

    Winter squash is an excellent source of fiber baked, making digestion easier and supporting healthy bowel function and stool elimination.

    Scoop out the baked squash flesh and store it in small portions of about (1 1/2 Tsp.) to split fed daily, (3/4 Tsp.) AM & PM each.

    Silicone baby food trays make this easy to support on a daily basis by storing the portions in the freezer so that they are ready to thaw in the fridge and feed the next morning. Using the small end of a melon baller to remove the squash once cooled makes the task much easier.

    https://www.amazon.com/Eyourhappy-Ba...347270&sr=8-45

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  11. #66
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Her blood work came back. The doctor had to discuss this with an exotics expert, hence why it took a little longer to come back.
    Here was his findings sent to my email:
    ______________________
    I discussed the bloodwork with an exotic specialist.
    Bloodwork results:
    -the protein was lower than normal; this can be seen with liver disease and gastrointestinal disease (eg. infection,
    cancer)
    -one of the liver enzymes was higher than normal; this can be seen with infection, cancers, etc.
    -the calcium was lower than normal; this could be dietary or low due to the decreased protein.

    I am recommending the following:
    1)Continue with the enrofloxacxin (antibiotic) for the 14 days
    2)Recheck in 10-14 days for recheck bloodwork (sooner if not doing well)
    3)Decrease the calcium to 1.3mL- if seizures come back then go back to the original dose for 14 days
    4)Mix 4 mL of corn oil with 1 mL of flax oil; give 0.1ml by mouth once a day for 14 days, then 5 days a week thereafter
    (get from any grocery store). this increases the fatty acids.
    5)Continue with famotidine as directed
    6)Continue syringe feeding the ominvore supplementary feeding
    7)Add in milk thistle liver supplement (get from calgary north animal hospital) for 60 days
    8)Add in Vetri DMG liquid liver supplement (get from amazon.ca): Give 0.1mL by mouth once a day for 60 days

    I will be back on the weekend if you have any additional questions.
    I hope that Trooper is doing better.
    _______________

    Trooper is doing much better still. She is starting to put on weight too. So, I'm really hoping that it's not cancer. I'm hoping that if it was due to an infection then these antibiotics do the trick. Or, since they have said that her calcium was low, and from everything this forum has taught me about what low calcium does to squirrels, I'm hoping that all the other findings stated above are in fact due to the low calcium levels. If so, then I'm confident that this can all be reversed and nothing more sinister is in the works.

    Her blocks have been ordered, and her diet has been massively altered. She doesn't like her regular veggies anymore and I think she would just hide those from me and not eat them. I throw a bit of waste out when I raid her cage (She lives in a whole caged off room in my house). This could have been a big contributing factor to a poor diet. She used to love what I've been feeding her, until around last summer when she started becoming picky. Now she's been getting more verity and has been eating everything I've been throwing at her (She will hardly touch broccoli, cauliflower, or carrots anymore, though if they are cooked then it's a different story). Once she's recovered, she's getting a separate feeding cage so I can closely monitor her intake and limit the amount of mess that she leaves for me to clean all the time.

    From my understanding, usually if an animal has cancer and rapidly declines, they don't usually bounce back with out aggressive medications, therapy, surgery, or never at all. Trooper has bounced back quite a bit and has been gaining a good amount of weight. She's had no more vomiting, bathroom issues, or seizures since the ER visit, her balance and strength seem to be stabilizing as well.
    Does anyone have any experience with Cancer in squirrels or in animals in general? I'm still worried for this outcome and waiting 14 days to find out is going to be challenging.

    Thank you all <3

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  13. #67
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    As I shared prior, there was a possibility of this condition being caused by an impact from the ingestion or inhalation of alfatoxin producing Aspergillus fungus from nuts, as the spore are in the soil and in the air also. This is why these two sources are included daily in my squirrel research diet.

    Pcynogenol and Milk Thistle seed extract for both these sources have been found to counter the effects-damage from mycotoxins, and alfatoxins in the liver of rats.

    Please get the Milk Thistle Seed Elixer from Oregon Wild Harvest (liquid best choice to support this source being well absorbed).

    Also, Pcynogenol 30 mg. capsule from Healthy Origins, which I would increase my initial recommendation to at least 1/2 capsule, with 1/4 capsule included in yogurt feed AM and PM daily into yogurt also.

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  15. #68
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Be sure to ask your vet how much by mg. of MTS daily; this source can be adjusted to support a close to exact dosage.

    You will need to use an needle syringe (not the dropper included with the liquid elixer) to place the prescribed amount of drops into the food.

    With a liver condition the form of calcium your vet has prescribed is the best one for liver condition, not the others.

    Ask your vet whether it is ok to feed the whole fat, or would the low fat yogurt be better with this liver condition.

    Stonyfield brand probiotic "Banilla", or "Vanilla", or plain with organic vanilla extract added.

    The good news is that even with damage to the liver it is one organ that regenerates itself in time.

    Organic Chia oil is a better choice than these other denatured oils that are hard on the liver. Foods Alive (filter oil through teabag strainer.

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  17. #69
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Cancer is a very scary word. I do agree with you, though - you don't see a lot of bounce back from cancer without treatment.

    When the blocks come in, give them to her first thing in the morning and NOTHING ELSE until she has eaten them. My guys just loves the Henry's hazelnut blocks - he usually goes for them before what would normally be his other favorite things, so hopefully Trooper will agree. The nice thing about the Henry's blocks is that once you have replenished her calcium levels, they will keep them there. They are designed specifically to do that. Once her diet gets back on track, you will hopefully see a "new" Trooper Marie!

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  19. #70
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggie's Friend View Post
    As I shared prior, there was a possibility of this condition being caused by an impact from the ingestion or inhalation of alfatoxin producing Aspergillus fungus from nuts, as the spore are in the soil and in the air also. This is why these two sources are included daily in my squirrel research diet.

    Pcynogenol and Milk Thistle seed extract for both these sources have been found to counter the effects-damage from mycotoxins, and alfatoxins in the liver of rats.

    Please get the Milk Thistle Seed Elixer from Oregon Wild Harvest (liquid best choice to support this source being well absorbed).

    Also, Pcynogenol 30 mg. capsule from Healthy Origins, which I would increase my initial recommendation to at least 1/2 capsule, with 1/4 capsule included in yogurt feed AM and PM daily into yogurt also.
    Thanks for this info! I have the Milk Thistle medicine from the vet. I picked this up this morning with dosing instructions, It's a liquid with a marked syringe from the vet (Very small amount). I'm about to order the other recommendations that the vet sent out now. For the Pcynogenol, is this something that I should run past the vet first? I'm just worried that all this might be a bit much on her as she will be on two liver supplements already.

    Also, you have mentioned that these toxins are found in shelled nuts. She only usually gets on occasion the unsalted mixed nuts that come in a tub at Costco. The only times she gets shelled ones are around Christmas time (these tubs last about a week or two, as I end up eating the rest), or the occasional peanuts (She doesn't really like peanuts all too much). Is it possible for these toxins to appear in the Costco tubs? I eat those quite a lot lol.

    I'm glad to hear that this condition can be revered. I'll keep these toxins in mind going forward, before your original post, I've never heard of this before. I'll be limiting her nut intake quite substantially going forward. I'm just hoping that this hasn't lead to cancer already. (Again, she seems to be recovering and the X-rays came back fine with no signs of tumors, so that's hopeful I guess).

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  21. #71
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    Cancer is a very scary word. I do agree with you, though - you don't see a lot of bounce back from cancer without treatment.

    When the blocks come in, give them to her first thing in the morning and NOTHING ELSE until she has eaten them. My guys just loves the Henry's hazelnut blocks - he usually goes for them before what would normally be his other favorite things, so hopefully Trooper will agree. The nice thing about the Henry's blocks is that once you have replenished her calcium levels, they will keep them there. They are designed specifically to do that. Once her diet gets back on track, you will hopefully see a "new" Trooper Marie!
    That is reassuring, the tec at the vet kinda said the same thing that they don't usually bounce back if it was cancer.

    I've ordered the hazelnut verity. I'm really hoping that she likes them.

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  23. #72
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Sorry I ran out of time; cooking the vegetables by blanching (short- term boiling) baby leafy greens 90 sec. is the best choice for making them easy on the digestive tract and supporting the optimum availablity of nutrients that they contain also, as this supports both their predigestion, elimination of worms and worm eggs and bad bacteria they may carry, and allow lowers the calcium lowering anti nutrients that otherwise lower the amount of calcium available from these sources to the body.

    Kale is the best one of the lost, also Baby Bok Choy.

    Boil cauliflower, Broccoli (mini portions of florets only not feeding the stalks), carrots, green peas, from 15 to 20 minutes to where they are soft.

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  25. #73
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    One more question. The vet sent me a link to the Vetri-DMG supplement on Amazon, however the item is unavailable. I found another link that looks like the exact same product, though the front label is slightly different. They both have the same ingredients. I'm pretty sure that they are the same thing, but I don't want to take any risks.
    Could someone help me verify?
    It's going to take a couple weeks for any of these to arrive. The vet is also away until Saturday

    Out of stock (Vet recommendation)
    https://www.amazon.ca/Vetri-Science-...ds=vetri+dmg&I

    in stock (Similar)
    https://www.amazon.ca/Vetri-Science-...9&sr=8-1-fkmr1

    Thanks.

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  27. #74
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Do the mixed nuts include Brazil nuts perhaps; they are dark brown angular large nuts with ridges?

    This nut should not be included in the diet for tree squirrels as it contains a very high amount of selenium that can easily result in selenium toxicity in rodents.

    Pcynogenol has been studied over 50 years in over 100 studies, many of which were done in rats. PYC is well tolerated at higher levels in rats than even in humans. It has been found to help to prevent loss of bone density in rats. It is highly anti inflammatory, and a source extracted from the cambium layer of pine which makes it part of the wild diet model of tree squirrels. It also has been found to prevent damage to the liver from toxins. (see files included in post)

    The suggestion of corn oil is not advisable for it damages the function of the liver. In addition most oil is GMO and denatured by the process that uses hexane (toxin) to extract it. Flaxseed oil, one of two oils that have a positive ratio of ALA Omega 3 to Omega 6 ratio, is highly, 'goitrogenic' compounds that reduce the absorption of iodine to the parathyroid gland, the gland that is responsible for production a hormone that triggers the production of Calciferol hormone known as Vit. D3 (not an actual vitamin) by the kidneys which is keenly responsible for supporting the absorption of calcium from digested food in the intestines.

    Chia oil (food grade -not a carrier oil that should not used orally) has a higher ratio of Omega 3 to 6 ratio than Flaxseed, high in ALA, but is not goitrogenic. It has been found to have benefits to the liver.

    For this source, use a fine wire strainer to remove the floating film left from the cold pressing process, of which no toxic chemicals are used as they are in most seed oil sources, even organic ones.

    https://www.amazon.com/Foods-Alive-A.../dp/B007788AZA

    Both of these health improving extracts from organic sources have been included in the squirrel research diet (research because it is based upon actual research into the sources included in the diet as to their health benefits). The gray squirrel that has been on this diet is now 11, active, having a good weight and activity level. A number of members have given this source to their older squirrels have found that their level of activity has increased, and is the picture of health.


    I have not been a fan of sources that contain negative additives, especially with a liver problem.

    Thorne B- Complex Pet formula on Amazon.com lends excellent support to an ailing liver; B complex vitamins are recommended as needful to support and heal an ailing liver.
    Last edited by TubeDriver; 03-17-2020 at 09:40 PM.

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  29. #75
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Read this:

    http://www.janethull.com/newsletter/...itamin_b15.php

    I think this is a better healthier way to get this amino acid B 15 not available from the US.

    'Pangamic Acid, is found in Pumpkin and sunflower seeds, the former of which is a healthy whole food high in zinc and methonine, and highest of all nuts and seeds in magnesium!

    With Pumpkin seed oil a high source of 'Pangamic Acid', it makes good sense to include this source in the diet.

    The oil of organic produced USA (not a source from 'glow in the dark land' Europe) of pumpkin seed oil, is an excellent pure raw non-denatured source of amino acids that includes methionine, Pangamic Acid.

    The goal for supporting more Omega 3 than Omega 6 still should be supported, which is why I have supported to include at least a (2:1) ratio of naturally high sources of Omega 3 and Omega 6 Fatty acids in the diet of tree squirrels to support liver and cardiovascular health.

    It is also a high source of zinc and magnesium, the highest in magnesium of any seed or nut by nearly double of that i Almonds. Magnesium is key to inhibiting seizures.

    Include daily as a base amount 2 drops 1/32 Tsp. of Foods Alive Chia Oil, and 1/64 Tsp. of Oil Seed company of Oregon organic raw cold pressed, non-denatured Pumpkin Seed oil.

    In increasing these amounts that would be recommended at this time, just double the measure of both with each increase. Smallest size first product on this page.

    https://www.seedoilcompany.com/pumpkin-seed-oil.html

    This same source I recommend, also included in the diet of an older gray squirrel (11 yo) for a number of years.

    Also recommend Zinc Balance (Zinc mono methionine) from Jarrow available on Amazon.com

    https://www.amazon.com/Jarrow-Formul.../dp/B0001VKDDM

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    Default Re: Vomiting

    I had a similar thing happen with a squirrel we had prior to the founding of TSB. We had been giving him more avocado to get him to eat, yet we strongly suspect the lady that was pet sitting him gave him avocado with the skin on. When the squirrel began to get better and stopped gagging, then wanting to eat, I gave him a chunk of avocado; sadly, the next day he began gagging again, and in a week we lost him.

    If an avocado isn't organic don'f feed it for it may have been sprayed with an insecticide. Also a concern if it is hard when you feed it, as that means it has a higher amount of tannins, which irritate the stomach. Even when ripe the thin layer of the flesh in contact with the skin and seed also contain this same compound at higher levels than the rest of the flesh of this fruit.

    Even of grown organic, too much of a good thing isn't good. Now that she is eating better, do not overfeed the avocado as to give more than (1/2 Tsp.)

    With a reasonable concern to not overfeed nuts, by comparison avocado has a (4.3 :1) [P:Ca] ratio which is higher than all three of these nuts: Hazelnuts is (2.54 :1), English walnuts (3.5 :1), and pecans (3.95 :1)

    A small measure of one of these 3 kinds of nuts of not more than (1/2 Tsp.) of nuts, and the extra calcium you are giving presently, is fine. Just don't feed avocado on the same days you feed nuts.

    Be sure to feed the nuts last, that is later in the day. When you get the block lower the nuts to 1/4 Tsp. daily till your squirrel accepts the block as to eat most of the portion given daily.

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