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Thread: Vomiting

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Also, pick up some infant ibuprophen. The hunched up behavior may be from pain. Let's take care of that. Will need her weight to dose for you.

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    Actually, the taste can help. Avoid peppermint - go for one of the fruit flavors. And get the tablets, not gummies or any of the other new whiz bang types! When you get it, turn the bottle and read the back label. It will tell you how much elemental calcium is in each pill. Aim to get 500mg PER day into her for the first few days of treatment. You want to spread it out through the day, not give it all at once.

    Here is a link to our MBD protocol: https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...dated-3-31-09)
    I got the Extra strength 750mg assorted fruit Tums. I mashed up one tablet into a tiny bit of water and mixed with a small piece of mashed banana. She ate a couple mouth fulls, but then wouldn't take any more. I also took put some tums solution on an apple slice that she took a few bites of. So I would say that she has had about 4 to 5 mouth fulls of some tums solution, as shes also licked a bunch off my finger. She also ate the rest of her strawberry from earlier and had some water. She was wandering around a bit and did some running as well, but shes still clearly weak. She hasn't thrown up yet. So perhaps that's a good sign. She's also not shaking anymore.

    I just got the egg shells into powder form and I'm thinking of mashing some into her avocado for later. I don't want to force too much food on her, as I'm scared to make her vomit again. She just got tucked up in her bed again and will let her sleep some more.

    Another thing of concern, is that she's lost a bit of weight somewhat quickly. I can feel her bones a lot more that usual. Is weight loss a part of MDB? I'm really hoping that it's nothing more severe like cancer. I never gave it a serious thought, as she's been her happy and super active self ever since yesterday.

    As for the Tums, the solution that I've made (One pill, couple drops of water) made A LOT, even more when I mixed it with some banana. Would the eggshells be more concentrated and ultimately be better? The tums solution would be a lot to force on her, even spread out through out the day, let alone being able to keep all of it down.

    Thank you so much for your help.

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  5. #23
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggie's Friend View Post
    While posting I didn't see the videos. Your squirrel doesn't appear to weight what you have related they do, but is on the thinner side.

    No matter, including the mineral forms and nutraceutical extracts to address a possible alfatoxin ingestion and support a more supportive Calcium to Phosphorus ratio.

    In using the MBD treatment, since your squirrel is older, Calcium citrate will lend protection to your squirrels kidneys in this situation.

    NOW also carries a source of Calcium citrate powder that you may find on the shelf locally. Same elemental dosage, not though the same by measure.

    This is what it looks like: https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Foods-Cal...4043339&sr=8-6
    Thanks for all your insight, I will look at these products online. At this moment though, I'm looking for what I can pick up from a store today. I've picked up some tums, but the yogurt and probiotics is something that I can pickup later today.
    There was a recipe somewhere on this forum long ago with how to make the Healthy Blocks at home. I will need to off that vs ordering from the States. Anything from Amazon is fine to order, but not the Henry's.

    Also, yes she is on the thin side. She has lost a bit of weight recently. I didn't mention what she weighs because I don't know yet since her weight loss. I need to find a scale somewhere.

    Thank you very much for the links. I will look into them once I have her more stabilized today. Also, thanks for the Yogurt and Probiotics tips. I will grab those ASAP.

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  7. #24
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverline View Post
    I got the Extra strength 750mg assorted fruit Tums. I mashed up one tablet into a tiny bit of water and mixed with a small piece of mashed banana. She ate a couple mouth fulls, but then wouldn't take any more. I also took put some tums solution on an apple slice that she took a few bites of. So I would say that she has had about 4 to 5 mouth fulls of some tums solution, as shes also licked a bunch off my finger. She also ate the rest of her strawberry from earlier and had some water. She was wandering around a bit and did some running as well, but shes still clearly weak. She hasn't thrown up yet. So perhaps that's a good sign. She's also not shaking anymore.

    I just got the egg shells into powder form and I'm thinking of mashing some into her avocado for later. I don't want to force too much food on her, as I'm scared to make her vomit again. She just got tucked up in her bed again and will let her sleep some more.

    Another thing of concern, is that she's lost a bit of weight somewhat quickly. I can feel her bones a lot more that usual. Is weight loss a part of MDB? I'm really hoping that it's nothing more severe like cancer. I never gave it a serious thought, as she's been her happy and super active self ever since yesterday.

    As for the Tums, the solution that I've made (One pill, couple drops of water) made A LOT, even more when I mixed it with some banana. Would the eggshells be more concentrated and ultimately be better? The tums solution would be a lot to force on her, even spread out through out the day, let alone being able to keep all of it down.

    Thank you so much for your help.
    Yes, the eggshell is more concentrated because it is ONLY calcium - the binders and flavorings add volume, too. Make sure you grind the heck out of it - you are trying to make powder. You can sprinkle it dry on things, too - you don't HAVE to add water. It has the benefit of almost no flavor at all, too, so it can be hidden in things.

    It is obviously not possible for us to diagnose something like cancer - all we can really do is address what we are able and hope. If she has been without blocks for some time, I KNOW she has MBD to some degree. So you go after that and hope it is all that is going on. MBD HURTS. That will kill the appetite quickly. She wouldn't show that to you until it got so bad she couldn't hide it though. That is why I suggested the infant ibuprophen. It does a dandy job, too, and most squirrels like it.

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  9. #25
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    Yes, the eggshell is more concentrated because it is ONLY calcium - the binders and flavorings add volume, too. Make sure you grind the heck out of it - you are trying to make powder. You can sprinkle it dry on things, too - you don't HAVE to add water. It has the benefit of almost no flavor at all, too, so it can be hidden in things.

    It is obviously not possible for us to diagnose something like cancer - all we can really do is address what we are able and hope. If she has been without blocks for some time, I KNOW she has MBD to some degree. So you go after that and hope it is all that is going on. MBD HURTS. That will kill the appetite quickly. She wouldn't show that to you until it got so bad she couldn't hide it though. That is why I suggested the infant ibuprophen. It does a dandy job, too, and most squirrels like it.
    Thank you so much. I will start getting the eggshells into her right away. I'll see if she'll eat more right now.
    I do have ibuprofen on hand, but I don't know her weight. My old scale broke and have yet to replace it. I'll see if I can pick one up at Walmart or somewhere today.

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  11. #26
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverline View Post
    Thank you so much. I will start getting the eggshells into her right away. I'll see if she'll eat more right now.
    I do have ibuprofen on hand, but I don't know her weight. My old scale broke and have yet to replace it. I'll see if I can pick one up at Walmart or somewhere today.
    Lets get a small dose in her now. What is the strength of the ibuprophen you have - is it INFANT or CHILDRENS?

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  13. #27
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    If you have a mortar and pestle, it would make grinding the boiled dried egg shells into powder easier.

    If not, then place the boiled dried egg shells on a sheet of computer paper and fold it over; then used a hammer to pulverize them. Empty powdered eggshell into small bowl.

    Use the same measure noted in the MBD treatment protocol for the pulverized boiled dried eggshells. Once partial dose of (100 mg.) is measured, add it to a smaller feed bowl; add couple of drops of orange juice and (1/2 Tsp.) of whole fat yogurt.

    This trio provides calcium, citrate, probiotics, and protein.

    I would get the whole fat yogurt seeing your squirrel is very underweight. If your squirrel refuses to eat it you will have to force feed it.

    If so, then dilute the mixture with purified water and pull it up into a non needle syringe to deliver it just inside the lip right behind the incisors as at 45 degree angle, repeatedly pushing a little into the mouth at a time allowing your squirrel to swallow it.

    Feeding egg is also doable; feed cooked (poached soft yolk, not liquid) and (fully cooked white) to yolk in a (2:1) ratio. (1/4) fed twice daily.

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  15. #28
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggie's Friend View Post
    If you have a mortar and pestle, it makes grinding the boiled dried egg shells into powder easier.

    If not place the boiled dried egg shells on a sheet of computer paper and fold it over, then used a hammer to pulverize them. Empty powdered eggshell into small bowl. Once partial dose of 100 mg. is measured, add a couple of drops of orange juice to it and then add that to whole fat yogurt diluted with purified water to make a slurry mixture to give 5 times over each day.

    This trio provides citrate, probiotics, and protein. I would get the whole fat yogurt seeing your squirrel is very underweight. If your squirrel refuses to eat it you will have to force feed it.

    To give by non needle syringe should your squirrel refuses it in a small feeding bowl, place the tip just inside the lip right behind the incisors as at 45 degree angle and push a little into the mouth at a time repeatedly allowing the squirrel to swallow it.

    Use the same measure noted in the MBD treatment protocol for the pulverized boiled dried eggshells.

    Feeding egg is also doable; feed cooked (poached not fried) white to yolk in a (2:1) ratio. (1/4) fed twice daily.
    Thanks for the info. I will go get some yogurt now. Do squirrels prefer one flavor more over another? She can be picky with fruit flavored stuff. Perhaps vanilla?
    I do believe I have the eggshells in power form, but I'll try taking a hammer to it as well for the extra effect.

    I mashed some eggshells up in a small piece of avocado just now and she ate most of it. She's been keeping things down so far. She's only puked once early this morning (In the videos). So I guess that's a good sign.
    I think she's had about 150-200mg so far today. Should I wait till later tonight before bed to give her the rest?

    She's back in her bed now, so I'll let her sleep. I'll grab the yogurt and a scale here shortly.

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  17. #29
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Yes. Let her sleep for a bit. If I could force her to do what I wanted (fat chance!), it would be to get up, have food and calcium and some pain meds, then go back to sleep until the next meal/dosage, and so on. If it IS MBD, every bit of energy needs to go toward stopping the progress and then to rebuilding bone mass, not squirreling around. It will be easier for her since she is an older gal and they slow up a bit and develop an abiding love for their snug little nests anyway.

    You saw my temp dosage for the infant ibuprophen, didn't you?

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  19. #30
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    Yes. Let her sleep for a bit. If I could force her to do what I wanted (fat chance!), it would be to get up, have food and calcium and some pain meds, then go back to sleep until the next meal/dosage, and so on. If it IS MBD, every bit of energy needs to go toward stopping the progress and then to rebuilding bone mass, not squirreling around. It will be easier for her since she is an older gal and they slow up a bit and develop an abiding love for their snug little nests anyway.

    You saw my temp dosage for the infant ibuprophen, didn't you?
    I'm actually about to go buy some. The ibuprophen that I had is long expired. I'll make sure that I get the infant type.

    Though she is keeping things down now, I'm still concerned about her vomiting. Is this a symptom of MDB, or could there be some other underlying issue that I should also be treating? Though I think the tums might have helped, as she is keeping things down. But I am still worried that there is something else going on.

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  21. #31
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Also, when getting yogurt, I understand I should get the whole fat. Should it be dairy, greek, or goat? I'm pretty sure dairy is out, but I'm not to sure what the rules would be in this case.

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  23. #32
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Update:
    I was able to get in touch with a 24 hour emergency vet hospital who still had her info on file from back when she was imported in 2014. Though they are 24 hours, they only have the small animal /exotic pet vets who would be more experienced on shift in the mornings and early afternoons. So I've booked an appointment for tomorrow at 8:30AM with one. They said that I can bring her in at anytime though, especially if she gets worse or stops eating and drinking.

    Since she's keeping her food down and has improved slightly since this morning, I'd like to get your thoughts. Should I wait until the morning to get her in to see an appropriate vet, or get her in now to see a general vet?

    I'm just on my way to pick up some pain meds. I'll feed her again in a few hours with her remaining eggshell dose. She's sleeping right now and I don't want to wake her, except for her pain med dose.

    Thank you all so much for your help.

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  25. #33
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    The only thing I can add, is that taking a weak squirrel to the vet is very stressful for them, and too stressful sadly for some. If she has MBD, with you are doing what can on your end; and if a liver issue, only MTS extract (Wild harvest liquid extract Sprouts may carry) and Pycnogenol 30 mg. I would look online to see who may carry that locally) has been found to counter toxins from fungus, and likely they won't have either on hand, even so available at stores

    If it is another issue, as long as she is improving, less gagging, no temperature, less tired, and continues to eat ok, you may want to consider whether it is better to wait till she shows more signs of regaining her strength? It's your call.

    As for the weight loss, from the look of her body, and the amount you posted, she's lost about 300 grams.


    Since she likes banana, she will likely accept the, "Banilla" version from "Stonyfield: Whole milk with Probiotic creamy organic yogurt.

    Sprouts Markets carry this brand. Not sure if they have the smaller cups or not.


    https://www.stonyfield.com/products/...k-banilla-32oz

    With the plain you can add a bit of organic orange juice.

    https://www.stonyfield.com/products/...ilk-plain-32oz


    Yogurt can be frozen in smaller portions, then thawed to feed. This is best to make smaller batches to freeze to use daily.

    With a few of these baby food silicone freezer trays, it makes doing this fairly easy to support!

    https://www.amazon.com/Eyourhappy-Ba...056311&sr=8-15

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  27. #34
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    About the vomiting... I don't know why but I can easily see why low blood calcium might affect this. Calcium doesn't only build bones - it is also responsible for muscle contraction. Cattle develop this sometime when pregnant - farners call it "milk fever" and it makes them unable to birth their calves because the muscle contractions needed to expel the calf just aren't there. If she is having some difficulty swallowing it would be like having a pill stuck in your throat, causing gagging and then THAT causes regurgitation. My now departed boy Mister P had trouble eating thin, soft lettuces like spring mixes. They would apparently get stuck to his palate and not go down and it used to terrify him (and me) when it happened. So I only fed him tough greens like kale and romaine center ribs. But I honestly cannot say for sure.

    She had a bad day today. I tend to think that resting until tomorrow if she continues to not vomit tonight - and so you can see a vet that knows something about exotics - is the best bet. If she backslides, you may want to go earlier. I am very glad you are getting her in there.

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  29. #35
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    I'm just at the store now. Is dairy yogurt ok? What about children's advil, or infant advil? Also what about Pedialyte?

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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Dairy yogurt is fine. Go for vanilla if you can.

    INFANT ibuprophen.

    You can certainly try one of the flavored pedialytes - she may like it and take more fluids because of that. Don't give it to her for more than 2 days though - lots of sodium - good for replacing electrolytes but once they have been replaced, it is salt and is about as good for them as it is for us (not).

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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    Dairy yogurt is fine. Go for vanilla if you can.

    INFANT ibuprophen.

    You can certainly try one of the flavored pedialytes - she may like it and take more fluids because of that. Don't give it to her for more than 2 days though - lots of sodium - good for replacing electrolytes but once they have been replaced, it is salt and is about as good for them as it is for us (not).
    I was able to only get Infant Motrin liquid 40mg/1ml (Came with a syringe). The store I went too only had this available, that or the Children's Advil. I can return it and go somewhere else if needed.

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  34. #38
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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Nope. What you have is fine. Do you have a weight for her yet?

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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    Nope. What you have is fine. Do you have a weight for her yet?
    No, I wasn't able to find a scale for her yet. Hoping that I can get that info from the vet tomorrow, if I can't find one in time.

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    Default Re: Vomiting

    Crittermom, from moms description of her baby being bony feeling and the video's I'd say she probably would weight 14 to 16 oz. May could low dose pain meds accordingly.

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