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Thread: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

  1. #1
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    Default Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    Hello!

    My wife and I are building a home in Northern Wisconsin. We were not able to get the soffit installed before winter hit. Long story short, a colony of Southern flying squirrels took refuge in our attic from the fierce Northern Wisconsin winter. Fearing the possible damage we understand these little guys can cause, we sifted through abatement advice and resolved to live trap the colony. It has been a long process, and now we have eighteen (18!) Southern fliers housed in a double-double Critter Nation cage with one floor and one ceiling. There are three half-width shelves that hold a waterer, a feeder, and a large nest box with nesting material, respectively. All the shelves and the bottom of the cage have plastic liners to protect little feet. The plastic liners are lined with newspaper for ease of cleanup, which happens weekly. There is a large apple tree branch with offshoots that goes from the top of the cage to the bottom, and a second, thinner but still sturdy branch next to it. The colony chews, perches, and races up and down these branches, stopping at the various shelves and at the large wheel that has sandpaper attachments on the outside to keep nails trimmed. There are two pocketed fleece hammocks hanging from the ceiling. The colony has divided into three groups for daytime sleep - some sleep in the nest box, some in one hammock, and some in the other. Everyone is highly active at night. They seem to get along well. As each new kid has been released from his trap into the cage, the others have surrounded, sniffed, and then accepted him. We feed them a fruit and nut commercial bird mix that gets shaken together with a calcium and vitamin D supplement before it is placed in the feeder. They also get a weekly fresh fruit and nut plate (chopped apples, blueberries, orange slices, Craisins, dried cherries, and pecan pieces) and a daily ration of acorns. They also get mushrooms and peanut butter. We have trapped these kids in our attic and are keeping them against their will - so we are doing our best to keep them comfortable and healthy, if not entirely happy during their time with us.

    With advice from a representative of the Wildlife Rehabilitation Center of Minnesota, we are building three wood-duck sized nesting boxes out of cedar, with single 1 1/4" rounded over entries near the top of each. We will add untreated cedar shavings for bedding material, and replace the current nesting box and hammocks with these new ones as soon as they are finished. With weather as it is up here, the colony will have two months or so to bond with these nesting boxes. In Spring, after the soffit is installed and all possible entry points are managed, and when we are certain that the weather is warm enough, I will place these nesting boxes about 20 feet up on three different trees in the backyard canopy, fliers inside and entries facing away from the lake and prevailing winds. We will continue to provide food for a time, so the colony can eat while they become reacquainted with their natural home.

    So some questions. First, it is comfortably warm in the area of the house where the fliers are caged. We have noticed activity that resembles copulation. We understand that it is a little early in the year for this, but wonder if the warmth has accelerated the arrival of the mating season. If it has, and mating has begun, we see a possibility that there will be pregnancies and births before release time comes around. Should I be building separate, smaller nesting boxes (hung in the same cage) for the mothers to inhabit, give birth, and care for their babies? Should we keep these boxes and their inhabitants indoors and cared for until the babies are self-sufficient and then place them near the boxes already in the trees with the rest of the colony? If not, how to proceed on this count?

    The colony has become attached to that wheel. One little guy seems to be providing most of the locomotion, and many others will wait for a full head of steam and jump in for the ride (they actually spin around like a load of laundry) while the one little guy keeps things moving. They'll do this on and off for hours at a time. It makes us think of kids at an amusement park getting on their favorite ride. Should I put that wheel up in the canopy too?

    And a guilty admission. We have grown quite attached to these little guys and every once in awhile we imagine making permanent accommodations in our home. Then common sense takes over and we wonder to ourselves "What are we thinking! These are wild animals who will be exponentially happier in their own habitat - natural hazards notwithstanding." Would anyone here care to comment on the practicality - and more importantly - the ethics of keeping these little guys inside? Bottom line, our hearts say "Keep 'em!" and our brains say "Release 'em!" Thoughts?

    To close, please know that we love animals to the point where we prefer their company to that of many humans. We are viewed by others to be generous and compassionate. We really do understand the difference between what is in the best interest of an animal and what is more likely to provide us with gratification. We'd never even seen a flying squirrel before this episode and are working to do the right thing. Any insight from people in the know will be gratefully accepted.

    Thanks!

    Jamie and Pam

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    Hi Jamie and Pam,
    to The Squirrel Board

    I have a chore to do right now but I will definitely be back to give you some advice. I have 2 flyers and would love to share with you about these little guys. Again, welcome and thank you for saving them. Most people wouldn’t have gone to that much effort. They would have called an exterminator and we know how that ends.

    I’ll be back later.

    WOW!! 18!!!!

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    Good job! Eighteen huh? Wow!

    We would love some videos of your clan!

    Thanks for taking care of them and resolving to do what's in their best interest!

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    OK, there are a lot of issues to address here so I’ll address them one at a time on multiple posts. I’ll start with the ‘Keep em’ vs ‘Release em’.
    They really are fascinating little creatures and can be quite entertaining. I would just imagine that watching 18 flyers would be far more entertaining than television. I can see how you could become attached. Let’s face it, they are just about the cutest little creatures ever. Now let’s look at what would be involved keeping 18 flyers.

    First, it is probably illegal in your state to keep them as pets. While some states allow flyers to be kept if they are purchased from a breeder, almost no states allow wildlife taken from nature to be kept. Because of this, it is nearly impossible to find a vet that will treat them if there is a problem. It is a problem we commonly see on The Squirrel Board. Some do decide to keep squirrels or flyers as pets. It becomes a closely guarded secret because if words gets out to wildlife officials they will come to your house and confiscate. The most common way to get caught is to post about illegal wildlife on social media.

    Another issue is the population explosion that you are very likely to encounter. Flyers breed prolifically, even in captivity. Your 18 would become 30 then 50 then 70, etc. I think you can see where I’m going with this. The behavior that you saw might not be associated with breeding. Young flyers love to grasp the waist of a friend and ride them like a pony. For youngsters it is play. Sometimes they will even line up like a train. It is the cutest thing. For older flyers it can be an expression of dominance. Of course at some point it will indeed be breeding. I’m sure that the extreme climate in Wisconsin probably does tend to set up seasonal breeding to optimize survival of the young. I’m in FL and squirrels tend to breed year round. Now that the flyers are inside all bets are off. It is possible that they could start ‘making babies’. I would prepare for it but hope that it doesn’t happen. You could buy a few cheap cockatiel wood boxes at a pet retailer. The small ones are fine. Mother flyers are VERY aggressive. We don’t call them ‘box sharks’ for no reason. I would probably have a second cage to move any ‘new families’. I doubt that she would allow any others to enter her box but to keep the stress down it would probably be easier to move them. By the way, you mentioned cedar nest boxes. I wouldn’t use cedar. Cedar is very aromatic and is associated with respiratory problems in rodents. It would be safer to use a non-aromatic wood.

    There are other issues to consider as far as keeping them vs release. Taking on the care of any exotic can be problematic. It is not like having cats and dogs. If you need to leave town it is very easy to get someone to either board your cat/dog or come into your home to feed them. Not so with flyers. Finding trustworthy competent help is very difficult and they must also be trusted to ‘keep your little secret’.

    This is the biggest reason why you shouldn’t even consider keeping them. This is a heartbreaking true story. Years ago a guy in FL decided to create a flyer habitat on his property. He built a large caged area where flyers were free to roam in the confined space. He fed them and they bred. He had nest boxes that they lived in within the habitat. Every thing was fine and his flyer colony was happy. Until... he died. Those that knew him tried to step up to feed the flyers for a time. There is always a limit to how much others can help in a situation like this. It was finally decided to release them. The doors were opened and they were free to leave. The problem was that they had been kept and they no longer had the instincts to survive as a wild creature. People came in later and found dead flyers in nest boxes. They had starved to death because they were no longer the wild creatures of the night that they were born to be. Hearing that story was gut wrenching to me. I think there is a valuable lesson there.

    If any of the flyers can’t be released due to disability that is a different story. They do make great pocket pets and bond to people.
    One more consideration. Captive flyers can live to be 15 years old or older. I have one that will be 10 yo in September so it is a long term commitment. A lot can change in your life in 15 years.

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    Wheel.... One of my boys runs 10 miles every night on his wheel. Maybe that’s a slight exaggeration. My other boy never used the wheel at all. I hope the wheel you have is completely open on one side. Wheels that have a side bar are dangerous. As I’m sure you have seen, they run very fast and jump in and out or are thrown out. The side bar can break their back or seriously injure them. I have a Magnum wheel by attixworx . It is completely open on one side. There is a very similar wheel made for sugar gliders. They are a bit pricey.

    It cracked me up when they stop running and ride the wheel round and round.

    I read an interesting article about wheels. It was noted that rats run a lot in wheels. It was assumed that it was a sign of boredom and stress. The theory was put to the test by placing a wheel outside. They recorded wild animals running on the wheel. They certainly were not running because they were bored or stressed. It seems that they just enjoy it so if you want to put the wheel outside after they are released I think it would be perfectly fine.

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    Housing... When I first read your post I thought you had them in a double Critter Nation. I reread that and saw that you said a double double Critter Nation so that would be 4 units put together. You might be able to manage the housing in this setup but if you see signs of stress, aggression or fighting you might need to add on. I’m assuming you have several months in WI before any signs of spring. You might want to check Craigslist for cheap cages just in case. I would recommend that you put a blanket over the top and back of the cages. The covered top makes them feel more secure and the covered back protects your walls as they will pee out of the cage onto your walls. If you have shiny new hardwood floors I would put a large movers blanket under the cages. Flyer pee stinks and 18 flyers peeing... whoa.

    I bought a bolt of camo fleece and draped it over the top, backs and one side.
    I have 2 double Critter Nations that sit side by side. The fleece extends the entire length of the 2 CN cages.
    Yeah you read that right.... I have 2 flyers that each have their own CN double. They can’t get along.

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    Diet... I’m a little concerned about the fruit/nut bird mix that you’re feeding. If it also has seed in it, it’s not good for flyers. Because you’re adding calcium to the mix I assume that you are aware of Metabolic Bone Disease. Be careful supplementing with Vitamin D. Too much Vitamin D is toxic to rodents. We need to keep these little guys healthy until spring so you will need to limit the nuts and seeds. Nuts and seeds are high phosphorus foods. The body has a delicate balance between calcium and phosphorus. When the diet is too high in phosphorus the body will attempt to reestablish the proper ratio of the two minerals. (2 calcium : 1 phosphorus) In the body, the stores of calcium are in the bones. The body will pull calcium from the bones if the diet is high in phosphorus. This is what causes MBD. It is a fatal but preventable condition.

    Here is a link to the diet for captive flyers.
    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...quirrels/page4
    They will need a rodent block. I’m sure they will reject it to start but it should get better with time. I would recommend Envigo Teklad 2018 rodent block. It can be purchased online. If you just had a few flyers I would recommend Henry’s Healthy Blocks (Picky Eater Variety or Wildbites) from Henry’s Healthy Pets but with 18 that would be very expensive.
    Flyers are omnivores and have a higher protein requirement than grey or Fox squirrels. They are meat/insects eaters. You can buy meal worms or Waxworms. I would recommend you buy them in bulk online. They are much cheaper that way. I feed a dehydrated chicken call PureBites. It is a dog treat that is 100% chicken. You can also bake chicken wings. They will even eat the bones. My boys won’t eat fresh chicken but some do.

    The basics of the diet are a rodent block, meal or waxworms, mushrooms, assorted veggies and limited fruit. They can have nuts as treats but should be limited.

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    Sorry, that’s a lot to digest.

    In spite of all the ‘info’ I want to let you know how much I admire you for taking this on.
    I have had flyers for over 8 years. My oldest was 1.5 years old when he came to me. I love them dearly but what you have taken on sends chills of fear down my spine.
    It is a monumental task but I have no doubt that you are up to the challenge. You sound just like most of us here. We too, like animals more than people.

    After release I would continue to feed them until they transition to being self sufficient. The nest boxes are a good plan. I think it is likely that you will have flyers gliding down to greet you in the evenings. That sounds fantastic.

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    You are right on the money. The setup is 4 cubes high. We got the first double from someone on CraigsList, and when the population grew we broke down and coughed up the $$$(!) for the second double, new from Amazon.

    No signs of aggression so far, other than when one little guy without an acorn will sidle up to another guy with an acorn and there might be a little non harmful tussle until the acorn remains with its owner or changes hands. Ghere's plenty for everyone - we bought 40 pounds of them from a woman on eBay to last through the winter.

    I get the urine!!! At each weekly cleaning we put a fresh set of 5 extra large Depends pads (same as puppy training pads but normal people can afford them) under and around the perimeter of the cage. Those catch most of the urine and all of the discarded and flung shells. I have also placed a 4X8 sheet of foam behind the cage and beyond the bars. That catches all the pee that gets sprayed to the rear. The side of the cage that is adjacent to a wall is far enough away that the spray does not reach. Oddly enough, we have found a fleck or two of poop against that same side wall - I didn't know they fling poop. I didn't know a lot of what we have since learned. We hung a fleece blanket over the topped around the sides - the little guys shredded it somewhat. We are always concerned about what they might ingest ... Thoughts?

    Flyers not getting along? I thought they are social animals that thrive on being together. A Critter Nation double for each? Wow!

    Jamie

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    Quote Originally Posted by RockyPops View Post
    Good job! Eighteen huh? Wow!

    We would love some videos of your clan!

    Thanks for taking care of them and resolving to do what's in their best interest!
    If black and white (the only way I can figure out how to get night vision on the camera to work) will do and if I can figure out how to post a video, I will provide one!

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    No worries, and thanks. The little guys, while no longer terrified of us, still have a healthy skepticism. We don't (and won't) handle them. We understand the contradiction because we are feeding and housing them, but we dread the idea that they might become dependent upon us. We limit interaction to feeding time, cleaning time, and watching via remote camera. They'll have food and shelter upon release. It will break our hearts when we let them go, but we don't want them to visit with us. We want them to remain terrified of anything that might be even close to being a predator ...

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    Thanks for this critical information. We will act on this. I had read in a few places that nuts in shells are a primary way for these little guys to keep their incisors at a managed length?

    The basics of the diet are a rodent block, meal or waxworms, mushrooms, assorted veggies and limited fruit. They can have nuts as treats but should be limited.[/QUOTE]

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    The Magnum is what our guys have. We cheaped out and bought the blue one - on sale. Purple is cooler to us, but I don't think the "kids" care. Pricey anyway, but I am a geek and appreciate the ball bearing mechanism. I will put their wheel out in the canopy when time comes. In the meantime, perhaps a second wheel. There always seems to be a line waiting to jump in. Many more lazy guys along for the ride than motivated guys making it go.

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    OK, there are a lot of issues to address here so I’ll address them one at a time on multiple posts. I’ll start with the ‘Keep em’ vs ‘Release em’.
    They really are fascinating little creatures and can be quite entertaining. I would just imagine that watching 18 flyers would be far more entertaining than television. I can see how you could become attached. Let’s face it, they are just about the cutest little creatures ever. Now let’s look at what would be involved keeping 18 flyers. ...

    ... If any of the flyers can’t be released due to disability that is a different story. They do make great pocket pets and bond to people.
    One more consideration. Captive flyers can live to be 15 years old or older. I have one that will be 10 yo in September so it is a long term commitment. A lot can change in your life in 15 years.
    There is a LOT to respond to here - you deserve a thoughtful reply in exchange for all you have provided. It is near bedtime, so I will think about a good reply and get back to you in the morning. Thanks SO VERY MUCH!

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    I hate to bring up as issue with acorns but I’ll tell you and let you decide. Of course, if they were free they would definitely be eating acorns outside. The problem with acorns is that they tend to grow fungi inside due to their high moisture content. Some of these fungi produce aflatoxins inside the acorns. These toxins are deadly so feeding acorns does carry some risk. Keep in mind that not all fungi produce aflatoxins. I do give my boys acorns when they are fresh on the trees. I’m in FL so any that fall to the ground will grow mold rapidly because it is so humid and hot here. I don’t store acorns like I once did. What I do to minimize the risk is to cut every acorn they get with a knife. I inspect them and you can clearly see when an acorn is bad. This doesn’t totally eliminate the risk but I do feel it lessens the risk. I just wanted you to know.

    My flyers have shedded part of their fleece also but it’s not a problem. I don’t think they consume it. Yes, I have found poop on the wall. How do they do that? Make sure they can’t get to the foam.

    My older flyer had health issues (seizures) when he came to me. I discovered that his seizures were triggered by light so by reducing his exposure to light I have virtually eliminated his seizures. My second flyer was an 8 week old baby. The baby constantly wanted to ride on Bonzai’s back like the behavior you described. Because of Bonzai’s seizure history I didn’t want anything stressing him. The pony rides were stressing him so I couldn’t allow that to continue. That’s the reason they don’t live together. They are older now and it just isn’t feasible any longer.

    You are right though, flyers are colony dwellers and usually will form bonds with groups of flyers.

    I think you are fine with a spring release. They shouldn’t became dependent on you in that short time. Once outside they will pick right up where they left off. The ones in the habitat that I mentioned had been there way too long for release. I guess it sounded like a good idea at first but ended in a train wreck. I learned a lot about flyer behavior from that dreadful story.

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    Me too. Good night.

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    Hello, TomahawkFlyers! You are wonderful for trying to do right by these amazing little critters. I bet that when you do release them, they will want to come and visit. I don't think that would be a bad thing, as in making them more vulnerable to predators. I was lucky enough to have some show up at my place last fall. They stayed thru the winter. One very cheeky one would come to within a couple of feet from me. On the floodlit side of the tree trunk where a bird feeder was hung. I was almost at the point of getting meal worms to see if he(?) would take food from my hand. But he never did, or I didn't have time, or they wouldn't show up for days on end, etc. And then they seem to have moved on. Haven't seen them all year. But I do keep hoping and looking at night.

    Anyway, I like your attempts to keep them wild, but you may be lucky enough that they choose to interact with you anyway once free.

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    Posting video...

    Post your video to a hosting site (YouTube) etc. and then include a link to it in your post here.

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    Default Re: Care of Southern Fliers During Overwintering, Preparing for Spring Release

    Wow! 18 flyers is quite the colony! Bless you. I have one flyer and he loves his wheel, too. His wheel is called a Mod Raptor wheel. It’s made for sugar gliders and has ball bearings like the magnum wheel. How fun to have wheels in the trees for them to enjoy.

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    Default A Video!

    https://youtu.be/jzUxex4Obfo

    This is the "home" we've put together for our guests. The camera is on night vision mode, so all we get is black and white. We're working on better angles and views so we have a good video memory book to look at after our friends are released into their natural home. Enjoy.

    Jamie and Pam

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