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Thread: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

  1. #1
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    Default Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    My name is Jessyka, I'm currently a receptionist at an Emergency Veterinary Hospital. Received my baby girl thru my work as I knew I wanted to help with rehabilitation (we get TONS of bunnies & kits all spring/summer) We've been doing great or so I thought... ive had her since the end of Aug. Had her for about a week and she opened both eyes so I'm guess she's roughly a little over 4 months. I've slowly started to notice her doing things that weren't within the norm. such as getting tired faster (she would come onto the bed to play and take 2 min power naps here & there), she started sleeping in the living room on a perch we have for her, she likes to jump up onto the dresser and I noticed she's been pulling herself as well as not having very much balance... her tail is manly down for the most part as well... so off balance, sleeping more and not really jumping are the symptoms she's still eating and seems more cuddly. She started off on Monkey Biscuits but she didn't care for those now she's on Picky Blocks which she's alright with not as much as I'd like her to though, mixed greens, tomatoes, and my dip BF gives her nuts and apples daily (just FINALLY got him to quit). I'm guessing it's the start of MBD? Or does anyone have any ideas? Sorry for the rant... o also she's losing hair. She sleeps in her back and has a bald spot on her neck area. Skins not red or irritated, reminds me of a baby duck losing it baby feathers. Any insight would be helpful! Maybe a UV bulb would help? Jess
    Sorry... but I've recently purchased some Calcium Carbonate from the best store... it's called GliderCal as they didn't have the SquirrelCal and it looked like the same stuff

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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    Hi Jessyka,

    to TheSquirrelBoard

    I’m glad you found us. Let me ask a very relevant question. What formula did you use? Unfortunately, the most commonly recommended formula for baby squirrels, powdered puppy Esbilac formula was horribly defective this year. Around August, people started having issues with baby squirrels on Esbilac formula. The bones of these babies started breaking suddenly under the weight of their own body. X-rays showed severe MBD and multiple breaks. At first it was one squirrel, then two and then an avalanche of babies with broken bones. I’m sure you know that should never happen. The Esbilac formula was/is the problem. The calcium source was/is defective so if your baby was on this formula there is a good chance that MBD is an issue.

    A diet with too many nuts will also cause MBD because they are high in phosphorus. The body metabolic strives to maintain a delicate balance of calcium and phosphorus. If the diet is too high in phosphorus the body will pull calcium from the bones to achieve the balance. This is what causes MBD.


    We have an MBD protocol. I’ll get the link for you.

    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...-MBD-Treatment

    Here is the link for the Healthy diet for captive/pet squirrels.
    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...5&d=1391033425

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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    Thanks for caring for your baby Jessyka!

    We love pictures of babies and videos even more. They can help with diagnosing problems as well.

    And does your little girl have a name?

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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    Hi Jessyka,

    to TheSquirrelBoard

    Iím glad you found us. Let me ask a very relevant question. What formula did you use? Unfortunately, the most commonly recommended formula for baby squirrels, powdered puppy Esbilac formula was horribly defective this year. Around August, people started having issues with baby squirrels on Esbilac formula. The bones of these babies started breaking suddenly under the weight of their own body. X-rays showed severe MBD and multiple breaks. At first it was one squirrel, then two and then an avalanche of babies with broken bones. Iím sure you know that should never happen. The Esbilac formula was/is the problem. The calcium source was/is defective so if your baby was on this formula there is a good chance that MBD is an issue.

    A diet with too many nuts will also cause MBD because they are high in phosphorus. The body metabolic strives to maintain a delicate balance of calcium and phosphorus. If the diet is too high in phosphorus the body will pull calcium from the bones to achieve the balance. This is what causes MBD.


    We have an MBD protocol. Iíll get the link for you.

    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...-MBD-Treatment

    Here is the link for the Healthy diet for captive/pet squirrels.
    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...5&d=1391033425
    THANK YOU for the confirmation... definitely used Ebsilac Powdered Puppy Formula... I had already been using the same links you provided however with the Calcium Carbonate I purchased it doesn't list the elemental calcium... I've tried looking online however have not been able to come up with anything. I have no problem purchasing the one from Henry's however this one was avail. for me sooner. Just not sure on how to dose her "daily" with this... Name:  15766260305746691312134074852434.jpg
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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    Iím not sure either Jessyka. You can use Tums and we will have a measure of the elemental calcium. To be honest with you Iím not sure about megadosing with the magnesium. The GliderCal has magnesium.

    Yes, if your baby was on Esbilac I am certain that she has MBD. She was calcium depleted as a baby and the nuts havenít helped. I would begin the protocol right away. Use the GliderCal for now but I would get the Tums tomorrow.

    I see that you are in Billings. We have VERY few members in Montana but we do have a new member from Billings that is in the same situation. Her Nutty broke a leg by just standing. She had no idea what happened as he just started crying suddenly. She was told of the Esbilac issues and miraculously found someone to help her get X-rays. Iím sure you know that Montana isnít a friendly place for vet care of wildlife. All of Nuttyís legs were broken. He has been on treatment for months and is now doing well.

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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    One thing I wanted to add... you should be very careful with her. Don’t let her climb. Her bones are very fragile and will crumble.

    The Esbilac situation has been the most heartbreaking thing I have seen while on this board.
    So many lost and so many broken.

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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    Quote Originally Posted by RockyPops View Post
    Thanks for caring for your baby Jessyka!

    We love pictures of babies and videos even more. They can help with diagnosing problems as well.

    And does your little girl have a name?
    Her name is Quirrley, she's a 4.5 month bbn old fixer. I've had her since she was 4 weeks old... love her more and more each day! Was going to release her iij n the spring however I think she's more of a pet now 🤷*♀️ not sure if that's a good or a bad thing for her... 🙄 regardless I LOVE her to death and she's spoiled rotten!! I appreciate this forum it's an amazing thing you do as typically squirrels are not as "pets" per say in Montana... Name:  20191110_224201.jpg
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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    Iím not sure either Jessyka. You can use Tums and we will have a measure of the elemental calcium. To be honest with you Iím not sure about megadosing with the magnesium. The GliderCal has magnesium.

    Yes, if your baby was on Esbilac I am certain that she has MBD. She was calcium depleted as a baby and the nuts havenít helped. I would begin the protocol right away. Use the GliderCal for now but I would get the Tums tomorrow.

    I see that you are in Billings. We have VERY few members in Montana but we do have a new member from Billings that is in the same situation. Her Nutty broke a leg by just standing. She had no idea what happened as he just started crying suddenly. She was told of the Esbilac issues and miraculously found someone to help her get X-rays. Iím sure you know that Montana isnít a friendly place for vet care of wildlife. All of Nuttyís legs were broken. He has been on treatment for months and is now doing well.
    Ok so she's refusing the tums... I've tried those the first 2 days she seems to have more energy howere still not "jumping" which I'm ok with bc obviously I dont want her getting hurt... just breaks my heart to know I was to blame poor baby... my vet also had one break a leg and the die suddenly. I'll have to let her know about the ebsilac! So glad I found you guys ! ❤

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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    Iím not sure either Jessyka. You can use Tums and we will have a measure of the elemental calcium. To be honest with you Iím not sure about megadosing with the magnesium. The GliderCal has magnesium.

    Yes, if your baby was on Esbilac I am certain that she has MBD. She was calcium depleted as a baby and the nuts havenít helped. I would begin the protocol right away. Use the GliderCal for now but I would get the Tums tomorrow.

    I see that you are in Billings. We have VERY few members in Montana but we do have a new member from Billings that is in the same situation. Her Nutty broke a leg by just standing. She had no idea what happened as he just started crying suddenly. She was told of the Esbilac issues and miraculously found someone to help her get X-rays. Iím sure you know that Montana isnít a friendly place for vet care of wildlife. All of Nuttyís legs were broken. He has been on treatment for months and is now doing well.
    This is why I chose the Glider cal over the tums... but with the intentions of ordering off Henry's.Name:  Screenshot_20191217-180710_Chrome.jpg
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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    We donít give them the option of refusing. You give the doses in small quantities. You use a syringe to push it in the corner of the mouth just like a cat. Give small doses over a 24 hr period. That keeps the calcium serum levels up instead of rapid ups and downs. If necessary I would burrito wrap her.

    The hanging tail is an early sign of MBD. It is a progressive thing that eventually paralyses them in the hind end. They will also have seizures. When it reaches that point, death will follow if treatment isnít started. It takes months to reverse the damage from MBD. You can reverse the symptoms but it takes much longer to regrow the bones.

    Please do tell your vet about the Esbilac issues. I personally donít think itís safe for puppies either. PetAg has acknowledged a problem with the dicalcium phosphate in the formula. It is too course and apparently wasnít being absorbed. I believe there is more WRONG with it than that. You might have noticed the grit in the bottom of your container when you mixed the formula. That grit was the calcium.

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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    Oh my goodness!

    Quirrley is just gorgeous. I'm glad she's getting what she needs.

    Please keep us posted on her progress.

    Thanks again for going the extra mile!

    That hair loss looks like a rub spot to me.

    And if she gets all better she may still be releasable one day.

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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    I understand what youíre saying about the GliderCal. Keep in mind those instructions are for supplementing not treating MBD. The MBD treatment is megadosing. While is is OK to megadose calcium (within limits of course) I donít know if itís safe to megadose magnesium. It the same reason why we DO NOT use calcium with Vitamin D3. You can NOT megadose Vitamin D3 because it is toxic to rodents. Some rodenticides are made with Vitamin D. As far as the magnesium, I just donít know. 🤷🏻*

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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    One thing megadosing with magnesium will likely do is cause loose stools. Magnesium is a laxative (that is why it is called Milk of MAGnesia).

    NOW brand sells calcium carbonate powder with no added anything but I have never been able to find it in stores. You can order it but honestly, Henrys ships so fast it would likely be quicker. In the meantime, be a mean mama and get that calcium down!

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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    I always get involved in the clinical details and forget an important part. Quirrelly is adorable.
    I just love your orange Fox squirrels. They are so beautiful. We donít have those in FL.
    Iím sure Quirrelly is ridiculously spoiled.

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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    One thing megadosing with magnesium will likely do is cause loose stools. Magnesium is a laxative (that is why it is called Milk of MAGnesia).

    NOW brand sells calcium carbonate powder with no added anything but I have never been able to find it in stores. You can order it but honestly, Henrys ships so fast it would likely be quicker. In the meantime, be a mean mama and get that calcium down!
    NOW brand calcium carbonate and calcium citrate can be found in health stores.

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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1959 View Post
    NOW brand calcium carbonate and calcium citrate can be found in health stores.
    That's what I ended up getting is the NOW brand... she loves it mashed into Avocados. Would you have any other suggestions in what to use to dose her with? I don't want to keep using avocado do I?

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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    NOW calcium carbonate powder can be purchased on Amazon or at All Star Health.
    Itís really cheap.
    Scurry Central
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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    Quote Originally Posted by lilidukes View Post
    NOW calcium carbonate powder can be purchased on Amazon or at All Star Health.
    Itís really cheap.
    That's exactly what I've been using... mashing it up in avocados. I tried some like baby food applesauce flavor but Quirrley did not go for it. Is dosing her with avocados daily sustainable for her health or should I start to explore other options? As always i appreciate any and all advised given!! Thank you thank you thank you!

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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...�� ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! ��*♀️��*♀️

    This alternative form and source of calcium is fine milled and readily accepted in a wet food, like plain low fat yogurt, or baked Butternut squash, both of which have positive Ca:P ratios, also good sources of protein with low fat. It is a bit greater volume due to it being bonded with Citrate that increases its volume, but that has not been an issue with the from scratch diet it has been included with for a gray squirrel for 8 years, now near 11 yo.

    https://www.amazon.com/Frontier-Calc.../dp/B000UYA1T6

    https://www.stonyfield.com/products/...fat-plain-32oz

    This source of organic vanilla extract adding one drop to 1 Tsp. of yogurt is lower in sugars than the vanilla yogurt from the same source, which is better as too much sugar causes calcium loss as a result, which if at all possible, you want to avoid.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...5UGGZR0M&psc=1

    In a research study where estrogen that supports calcium absorption was lowered in rats, the standard higher 1995 ratio of (Ca:Mg) for laboratory rats was tested against a closer ratio of (5:1) whole diet milligram ratio increased calcium bone density, which inhibited fractures and crushing better than diets with the standard level of magnesium in female rats. This specific form of magnesium also was found to inhibit the formation of urinary tract crystals in rats.

    From the same company, this source of Magnesium citrate also has been included the same research based diet.

    https://www.amazon.com/Frontier-Magn.../dp/B000UYC3MY

    This is what you will need to do volume measures for these powders. If you should need assistance with the measures, send me a Private Message. Diggie's Friend

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    Default Re: Thanks for the add...🐿 ❤1st Time Mama - Needing Help! 🤷*♀️🤦*♀️

    I put calcium carbonate power in a salt shaker and shake it over the veggies of my squirrels who canít eat their blocks as well as others. Its flavorless.
    Scurry Central
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