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Thread: Sudden death of 5 month old grey. Now concerned about siblings!

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Sudden death of 5 month old grey. Now concerned about siblings!

    St. Louis Missouri, Michigan, or Oklahoma? No need to say here; but though to share that in St. Louis MO West Nile Virus was confirmed in mosquitoes. This virus presents with lethargic symptoms, being especially common to find in areas that WNV is present in young squirrels yet to get their full pelage.

    Were any of these symptoms noted in this article present before the one squirrel expired?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1939863/

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    Default Re: Sudden death of 5 month old grey. Now concerned about siblings!

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  4. #23
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    Default Re: Sudden death of 5 month old grey. Now concerned about siblings!

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    Default Re: Sudden death of 5 month old grey. Now concerned about siblings!

    Quote Originally Posted by LaurenKimberly888 View Post
    I actually haven’t given them any nuts regularly. I’ve read that it can bring out aggression and possessiveness so they only receive the nuts that are in their Henry’s blocks. The times I’ve given them the occasional pecan or shelled walnut... that proved correct. That has been the only times they’ve show aggression towards me so holding off until it’s time to wild them up for release.

    Also... Awaiting new Henry’s healthy blocks. It’s been maybe a week or two since they’ve had them. That’s because they end of our last batch had some mold show up on the inside. Awaiting another batch to be frozen. Assuming the rat food has plenty to hold them over, though. No other signs of MBD.
    Yes, the Henrys blocks need to be frozen on arrival. They will mold even in the refrigerator. They have no preservatives.

    You can rule out MBD. There is nothing wrong with your diet.
    Yeah, nuts make them go cuckoo so I also wait until closer to release.

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  8. #25
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    Default Re: Sudden death of 5 month old grey. Now concerned about siblings!

    If you want to dose the Baytril I can calculate it for you but I’m not convinced they need it. This happened way to fast for an infection. You would have noticed SOMETHING before death.

    I would need their approximate weight.

    Yes, it was the typo (0.5) in your original post that got my attention.

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  10. #26
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    Default Re: Sudden death of 5 month old grey. Now concerned about siblings!

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggie's Friend View Post
    St. Louis Missouri, Michigan, or Oklahoma? No need to say here; but though to share that in St. Louis MO West Nile Virus was confirmed in mosquitoes. This virus presents with lethargic symptoms, being especially common to find in areas that WNV is present in young squirrels yet to get their full pelage.

    Were any of these symptoms noted in this article present before the one squirrel expired?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1939863/
    Iím in St. Louis.

    I did not see any of those symptoms in Big Boy. Nor did I see them in the others. Only the lethargy.

    However, I will add that I was out of the house most of the day before and of Big Boys passing. If there were symptoms, they would have been only shortly before his passing on. Despite being out of the home, I fed them several times that day and saw nothing out of the usual.

    Iím really kicking myself, though. Iím at home with my youngest and an typically never out of the house more than an hour a few times a week. Because they are in our main living area, I am able to observe them closely. I was out of the house more than usual AND had their cage covered in the evenings. (Prevents poop scatter and keeps their circadian rhythm protected from our artificial light). Iím so torn up thinking I may have missed symptoms that could have saved him.

    My other 2 are now bouncing off the walls, as usual. And my gut is telling me the antibiotics saved them from something

    If that IS the case...
    Did the one dose do the trick? Should I just keep a close eye on them? Or should I give another dose. If so, what is the correct dose?

    I havenít buried Big Boy, yet. I have kept his sweet little body frozen. We plan to bury him, together as a family, in our garden. However, does something like this warrant an autopsy?
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  12. #27
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    Default Re: Sudden death of 5 month old grey. Now concerned about siblings!

    Lauren, often we never know why a squirrel dies. We try to rule out everything possible but there are often missing puzzle pieces.

    I did want to mention one thing. Your babies were Esbilac babies until you switched. We will never know the long term damage that was done to these babies. We did everything possible to remediate the situation but the question is .... did we fix it? Big ?

    I know of a licensed rehabber that releases many squirrels for herself and others. Just recently she received a group of Esbilac babies for release. The next morning one of them was dead in the release cage. Was this a coincidence or was it related to their early deficiencies? We will never know but it is troubling.

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    Default Re: Sudden death of 5 month old grey. Now concerned about siblings!

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    If you want to dose the Baytril I can calculate it for you but Iím not convinced they need it. This happened way to fast for an infection. You would have noticed SOMETHING before death.

    I would need their approximate weight.

    Yes, it was the typo (0.5) in your original post that got my attention.
    Iím ok waiting and only giving if necessary.
    Sorry if my replies are out of order. A few times Iíve responded before reading a previous reply.

    I will get accurate weights. However, now that they are feeling better... I may have to get weights once they are going to sleep for the night. Thatís the only time they hold still long enough to weigh.

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    Default Re: Sudden death of 5 month old grey. Now concerned about siblings!

    One dose wouldn’t cure them. It’s up to you if you would like to treat them. I would need the weight.

    Edit... just saw your last post. Just let me know. I will be happy to calculate the dose if that’s what you decide.

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  18. #30
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    Default Re: Sudden death of 5 month old grey. Now concerned about siblings!

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    Lauren, often we never know why a squirrel dies. We try to rule out everything possible but there are often missing puzzle pieces.

    I did want to mention one thing. Your babies were Esbilac babies until you switched. We will never know the long term damage that was done to these babies. We did everything possible to remediate the situation but the question is .... did we fix it? Big ?

    I know of a licensed rehabber that releases many squirrels for herself and others. Just recently she received a group of Esbilac babies for release. The next morning one of them was dead in the release cage. Was this a coincidence or was it related to their early deficiencies? We will never know but it is troubling.

    Poor babes

    I was fortunate to have a ďmade in the USAĒ can for the 1st half of their infancy and I noticed pretty quickly something was different when using a new can (marked ďcrafted in the USA). Thanks to this site I was able to transition them to fox valley. Honestly, they might not have had a chance without you all. I probably have over 24 hours of reading on this site. Standing on the shoulders of giants

    Iím willing to accept I may never know what happened to my Big Boy. But if something can wipe out the strongest and spunkiest rodent in my house, I still fear for the others. Watching my other 2 and my 3 rats like a hawk now!

    Thank you all for jumping in and trying to solve this puzzle for me. Iíve braced myself for the heartbreak of watching them leave me for the treetops. But nothing prepare me for losing one like this. Iím still shaking my head that I could love something as I did that creature.

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  20. #31
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    Default Re: Sudden death of 5 month old grey. Now concerned about siblings!

    I know itís not much consolation but you did everything right.

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  22. #32
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    Default Re: Sudden death of 5 month old grey. Now concerned about siblings!

    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    I know itís not much consolation but you did everything right.
    That means quite a bit to me, actually.

    I may be experienced at rehabbing animals and consider myself fairly competent. But Iím new to rearing squirrels and, in my opinion, no amount of research can replace the knowledge that comes with experience.

    Thank you for your kind words

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  24. #33
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    Default Re: Sudden death of 5 month old grey. Now concerned about siblings!

    Quote Originally Posted by LaurenKimberly888 View Post
    The wood came from a coworker of the Mr.
    He said it was stored on the back of the home for over a year and was a mix of fallen trees around their property. Itís definitely natural in origin. I will add, however, that there was a strong Smokey odor the evening we burned the new wood.

    No access to a laptop at the moment, only my iPhone and iPad. But I can possibly borrow one.
    Hi Lauren
    I have been following your post with great interest, and from what I have read so far, my best conclusion is that this very well might have to do with the wood. Wood that sits for a long period of time on the ground, as I am sure you know starts to decay. With that it will grown fungus, and other toxins as it decays. One of my questions you may be able to find out is when the wood was sitting was any insecticides used in or around the wood pile?
    the reason I am asking this is because some of the poisons used such as in rat poison and some others makes the animal thirsty when digested. Usually in rat poison it is in pellet form however some of the other insecticides have almost the same chemical make up. Did you happen to notice if Big Boys tongue was swollen? If so it was poison. If not it still could be poison of some type. I think if it were me I would keep the other squirrels far away from that wood, and if it has been sprayed with an insecticide get ride of it the toxins can be released in the smoke. You said the wood had a smokey smell, is this wood dry or wet. If dry then there really should little or no smoke. If the smoke was medium to kinda heavy and the wood was dry then suspect what I said about insecticides. The other reason I came to this conclusion you said Big Boy was thirsty as I explained above poison will do that. This is all hypothetical at this point but I did want to pass along my thoughts to you. You and I are alike in that I too would have to know why ! I hope this gives you a starting point and please keep us posted on what you find out.
    If you Were Lucky Enough To Have Loved and Taken Care Of A Squirrel Then
    You Showed Him Or Her More Love Than They Would Have Ever Known In The Wild
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  26. #34
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    Default Re: Sudden death of 5 month old grey. Now concerned about siblings!

    Two natural (nutraceuticals) sources, Milk Thistle Seed and Pycnogenol, have been found to have powerful properties in combating toxins from fungus and pesticides in the liver, and Pycnogenol in the kidneys.
    ,
    Wild Harvest Organic Milk Thistle Seed Elixer is a source that has been included in my captive care diet for tree squirrels, at one needle-drop onto a wet food from a (1 ml) (1 cc syringe) dose for maintenance daily.

    https://www.amazon.com/Oregons-Wild-.../dp/B00J9MKEUG

    Pycnogenol included at 2 non needle drops (1 mg.) for maintenance daily.

    For detoxification from either fungus or pesticides the amount for Pycnogenol should be higher than the measure for health maintenance. Since it hasn't been confirmed, only suspected, 10 mg. for a week, given every other day would be a reasonable level to considering adding to the diet. If then your squirrel begins to improve it may that these sources are working to counter possible toxins that have impacted these vital organs. Hard to say, save the woodpile could be confirmed to have been sprayed with pesticide compounds and/or developed fungal growth. What is not in question is the properties both these sources contain, which counter both alfatoxins (from toxic fungus), mycotoxins (from toxic mushrooms), and pesticides in the body.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...085970&sr=8-10

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