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Thread: Persistent diarrhea in 3-4 week old boy

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    Default Persistent diarrhea in 3-4 week old boy

    Skip to the bottom if you don't care about back story.

    Long time reader, first time poster. Not a licensed rehabber but over the years I have had nearly 20 babies that I've successfully cared for and released on my own. All were female and all were 4-6 weeks old and abandoned by the mother.

    I found a pair of pinkie twin boys 3 and a half weeks ago with slight fuzz starting to grow. Both boys -- my first males and also youngest -- squirrels as well as the first time I had two at once.

    One had apparently fell from the tree and landed on his face. Nose bloodied and a huge gash like a snake tongue from bottom lip nearly to his neck.

    I was able to heal his nose and shrink his lip gash, neck to chin closed up cleanly without infection and the lip opening was carefully treated several times daily and no signs of infection, he seemed to be doing great aside from that cut, but the day he finally opened his eyes he refused to eat at his last feeding. Every feeding would reopen the wound along the lip to the chin no matter how small a nipple I used or how hard I tried to feed through the side of his mouth by the cheeks. He died in a 1 hour time frame as I napped, both boys were on different feeding schedules and I was woken by his brother for feeding only to find my injured baby dead. I was so sure that I had gotten enough food in him to last that 1 hour. He was gaining weight steadily, engaging in exploration and light play. The only indication that anything was truly wrong at any point was during that final feeding when he resisted more than ever before. Needless to say I was devastated. His name was Cox, short for Copper Socks (named after enough hair grew in).

    He is survived by his brother Sterling, who is doing well. Healthy appetite and growth, curious and playful, energetic but also sleeps quite a bit still.

    Despite what anyone here may say I have already concluded and resigned myself to the fact that it's extremely unlikely that he will be a candidate for release so I have already spent the money on an appropriately sized cage for long term, though he will not be spending much time in it as he prefers to be ON or nearby me or the dogs. He has his potty crate that he goes to on his own and since he's learning to walk he just follows me around. He is kept tethered to me with plenty of reach so he can't get stuck or lost (even though he did escape his new cage as he's still too small for it, but he made his way to my spot on the couch and started crying for mommy). He has been mimicking dog behavior (wags his tail deliberately side to side in an un-distressed manner while playing or eating, this tail motion I've never seen in any other babies I've had so I am assuming it's learned behavior, unless it's an innate male thing that someone can educate me on). Obviously if he seems unhappy when full grown I will relinquish him to the local rehabber and let her decide what to do but I've been dealing with this woman for years and know that she euthanizes babies and adults that are too injured or unreleasable, and this is why I'm not contacting her now and didn't contact her over Cox. I knew she would put Cox down immediately and send me home with Sterling and demand that I hand him over after however many weeks. Maybe that was the right thing to do (let Cox be euthanized) but I prefer to believe that he was happy in his final weeks and had a bit of a life. Anyway....

    Important part The past 4 days Sterling has had diarrhea. This is the first time I've encountered diarrhea that's lasted longer than 2-3 individual poops. He is on the goats milk formula. I have tried adding water to his formula, and have also tried just a little yogurt with plain water because he will not drink plain water. He likes to lick me a lot all over so I have also been dribbling little drops of water on me where and when he's licking but after a few licks he moves to a dry spot.

    I'm concerned and not sure how to remedy this. If anyone can advise me I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you in advance. And I beg that you spare me the lectures and judgment over my assessment and choice to potentially keep him long term (yes, I know it may be 20 years and that it's a huge commitment and that he will be high maintenance and I am capable and prepared for all that lies ahead, including driving hours into another state for a vet if needed).

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Persistent diarrhea in 3-4 week old boy

    First, can you tell us exactly what Goats Milk formula you are using? Is it homemade and if so what are the proportions and ingredients - or are you using the goats milk Esbilac?

    How old and how much does Sterling weigh?

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    Default Re: Persistent diarrhea in 3-4 week old boy

    to The Squirrel Board

    I think we can help. Let me make sure I understand. 3.5 weeks ago they were pinkies. Are the eyes open? I assume yes. When did the eyes open? I’m trying to establish an accurate age.
    When you say goat milk formula, could you elaborate on that a little as there are several GM recipes and a commercial product called Goat Milk Esbilac.

    Edit... CritterMom and I live in each others head.

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    Default Re: Persistent diarrhea in 3-4 week old boy

    I am using the previous goats milk formula from the "2019 ESBILAC PROBLEM" thread, the one posted prior to 10/02. Yobaby vanilla, human liquid goats milk, and heavy whipping cream all from the local grocery store. Goats milk is store brand from the organic aisle. 3 parts goat, 1 part yogurt and 1 part heavy whipping cream. The goats milk I've had to put it in a mason jar so no longer have the nutritional panel (the container it came in wasn't good for storage, not very resealable) but I chose the option that was highest in calcium and just overall nutritional value, lowest sugar and sodium, highest vitamins, etc. when I buy my next container I can give more detailed information. He and his brother had been on this blend since I found them and they always had consistently solid, properly colored stool and good peepees.

    I found them (actually my female dog did, she ALWAYS finds ALL the babies) on September 11th around 2pm. They were very bright pink and had tiny sporadic patches of light thin little fuzz, not even fur by my definition. There were flies walking on them and I thought they were dead until I poked each and they both started moving and crying very weak and low volume mommy screams. I had to decide whether to make a nesting box or not but felt they were too young and underdeveloped to spend another moment outside even if in a box. We have hawks in the area this year and I believe the mother to be dead. I've seen with my own eyes one of these hawks take off with one of the countless stray cats this summer. Also given how late in the season and their age I found it strange, assuming an inexperienced mother had a second litter and these two crawled out and accidentally fell while looking for mom for feeding.

    Anyway Cox opened his eyes earlier than Sterling. Cox on sept 22 and Sterling on the 28th. Sterling's top teeth started coming in yesterday and he's been nibbling on everything he can find. I can see one tip of one tooth but that's it. Both bottom teeth are present.

    I've been using this for a quick and easy estimator which has consistently lined up with my personal estimation. Name:  1B65C84A-FD89-4FAA-857F-DDBEF40F1501.png
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    Here's a few current photos. He weighs 90g. The dog is 60lbs. His fur growth has accelerated a lot in the past few days and he is just shy of 2mm tail fur and 1mm back fur. From previous babies I know that I may wake from any nap anytime soon and find a fluffed out tail and the S arch. As mentioned top teeth are just entering.

    Please don't judge the harness and leash. It's for his own safety and my peace of mind, especially after the great cage escape. I assure you he doesn't find it uncomfortable and I check several times daily for whether he needs to size up or not (I have them on hand). As mentioned previously he's pretty much unreleasable as he and his brother would scream their heads off every time I put them down. Sterling essentially lives in my shirt and only comes out to play and potty and eat and he gets very upset when I try to take him out when he wants to be in there (makes baby in distress sounds when I try to remove him). The dogs are gentle and not a threat but he's tethered to me JUST IN CASE because unexpected things happen.

    I hope I've answered everything. If any more questions please ask.

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    Default Re: Persistent diarrhea in 3-4 week old boy

    There are a bunch of different ways to deal with persistent diarrhea.

    You mentioned you have rehabbed a lot of squirrels.. does the diarrhea have an unusually strong odor, or white jelly like mucus? This would be signs of parasites.

    You have not mentioned how much this baby weighs, or how often and how much you are feeding it. Knowing the weight is critical to feeding the correct amount. If you feed them too much or too often.. they have diarrhea. You cannot feed them until they stop or fill up at this age.. they will very frequently eat way too much, and have diarrhea because they cannot digest it all. Dropping them back to a balanced amount and frequency for their weight will firm up the poop.

    Firstly, it is time to move him off the goats milk. If you have not already, order some Fox Valley 20/50. Be careful that you do NOT order the 32/40.

    Until that comes in, one thing you can do is to give him a few drops of kaopectate or milk of magnesia. This may help to soothe his stomach and firm up his poop. When it passes through it will look black.
    Don't water down the formula.. this just increases the diarrhea. They need extra water because of dehydration, but you want to keep the formula at normal strength and give water between feedings.
    The primary goal should be too keep him fed and well hydrated until you can move him to a different formula.

    Get a gram scale, and weigh him in grams. Don't let him eat more than 7% of his body weight per 5 hours. (weight divided by 14)

    If the diarrhea continues on the Fox Valley you may need to dose with Metronidazole or Sulfadimethoxine (Albon).

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    Default Re: Persistent diarrhea in 3-4 week old boy

    Java,

    There's no mucus or any noticeable odor to his poops, they're leaning slightly towards the pale side of the brown spectrum, but the only thing that stands out aside from how long it's lasted (and it not resolving on its own or with a few water "feedings") is the QUANTITY of it. When he goes to the potty crate he completely soils the entire top sheet, sometimes so badly I have to give him a water bath (which he actually loves, another first for me from any of my previous babies).

    I will order some fox valley 20/50 now. Hopefully it'll help.

    Also I had only started to add water to the formula as a last resort because he just wouldn't drink plain water and I had slight suspicion that this may be contributing to the persistence but I believed it to be the best way to get some extra fluid into him. I am experienced but nowhere near a vet or professional and again he is my youngest and by far the most spoiled. I fully acknowledge that I have done everything wrong in terms of limited interaction but when I found him and his brother they just needed to be as close to me as possible for me to even hear them and it formed a habit on their end and now Sterling is just a spoiled little brat.

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    Default Re: Persistent diarrhea in 3-4 week old boy

    We definitely need to get a weight on him. How often and how much are you feeding him?
    Pale poop can indicate over feeding.

    Yes, singles can wind up getting spoiled.

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    Default Re: Persistent diarrhea in 3-4 week old boy

    Java,

    I mentioned in post #4 that Sterling is 90g.

    Last night I managed to get him to drink plain water from a bottle cap. Not much but it's something. Stool was a little more solid just now but still too soft. But not fully runny and none got on his tail or feet or anything. Nice soft pudding clumps in the potty crate.

    Last night I was worried because he seemed lethargic after feeding so I offered more formula and after eating some more he was energetic and playful for about two hours before wanting to go back to bed. We napped for about 6 hours and I woke because I was hungry and after I ate I woke him to feed and potty and he played for ten minutes with the dogs and came back to bed in my shirt.

    Probably gonna head back to bed now too. I've got a bad case of strep throat and me, the babby, and the doggies are all still tired. I have to verbally distinguish babby from baby because my boy dog is "the baby" and gets jealous when I call Sterling baby. Lol. Animals are so funny sometimes.

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    Default Re: Persistent diarrhea in 3-4 week old boy

    Okay, at 90g he should be eating a maximum of 6ml per feeding, every 4 to 5 hours, with one skipped feeding at night to clear any backlog.

    Hopefully the Fox Valley will firm up the poop.

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    Default Re: Persistent diarrhea in 3-4 week old boy

    Java,

    Just to clarify... I will be replacing the goats milk with fox valley and following the same formula (yogurt and heavy cream) or something else?

    The rehabber I have been working with in the past had me giving my last squirrel (broken leg, given to rehabber 1 week before I found Sterling) puppy esbilac... so I question her methods and don't wanna ask her anything anymore.

    Also what can you recommend for teething and chewing blocks? All I can find at local stores are salt licks. This is the first baby that I haven't followed limited contact rules for. He licks my whole body but keeps chewing my fingernails. He does respond to "ouch" and "no" but he has no interest in the variety of sized twigs and pine cones I've collected for him. Never had previous squirrels reject twigs or pine cones before and they never really got to my hands because I would handle them with a glove that's only ever touched squirrels. This is my first skin to skin contact baby and he was so young and I believe that's likely the reason his behavior is so very different from every other baby I've had so honestly I am looking at this as new territory and sorta throwing out the rule book to a certain extent (harnessing, potty training, exposure to dogs, letting him sleep in/on/with me, etc).

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    Default Re: Persistent diarrhea in 3-4 week old boy

    You will be moving him to Fox Valley 20/50.. 1 part powder to 2 parts water... no extra cream or yogurt. They normally like the vanilla taste.

    Esbilac has been the standard for squirrels, until this season, when we found they have changed the formula and it is killing many squirrels. I lost 2 out of 18 from it. Some lost dozens.

    Best chew toys are dried sticks and branches with no mold or rot. You can just pick them up in the yard or woods. You want ones with smooth bark, not rough bark (like pine or fir). Big and small ones. Pine cones are good too.
    Sticks are squirrel pacifiers and keeps them from chewing on your dining room table.

    Steak bones, cuttle shells, antlers, soup bones... are all good grinding items to keep their teeth short. No chicken or pork bones.

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    Default Re: Persistent diarrhea in 3-4 week old boy

    Quote Originally Posted by MotherOfBadgers View Post
    Jhe has no interest in the variety of sized twigs and pine cones I've collected for him. Never had previous squirrels reject twigs or pine cones before and they never really got to my hands because I would handle them with a glove that's only ever touched squirrels. This is my first skin to skin contact baby and he was so young and I believe that's likely the reason his behavior is so very different from every other baby I've had
    He should develop an interest in the sticks and pine cones. He is probably showing less interest in them right now because you are giving him an unusual amount of personal attention.

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    Default Re: Persistent diarrhea in 3-4 week old boy

    Quote Originally Posted by Javarat View Post
    He should develop an interest in the sticks and pine cones. He is probably showing less interest in them right now because you are giving him an unusual amount of personal attention.
    Java,

    I have successfully gotten him to start drinking plain water from a syringe and it turns out that I had been feeding him too frequently (basically whenever he made hungry noises I'd give formula) and he was good with self regulation of how much food (I did keep a watchful eye though).

    I have stopped giving him food every time he makes feed me grunts. But he's particularly cranky tonight all the sudden. He's just laying in my bra making baby in distress noises for absolutely no reason. Tried putting him in his crate and he made mommy screams.

    He keeps falling asleep but waking up and he just seems pissed off. Is it possible he's hungry? Or maybe just mad he's not getting food on command anymore? I had been feeding every 3h rather than every 5.

    It's really like a child throwing a tantrum when he wakes up. He sits in my bra making distress grunts, I take him out, he gets louder with distress noises trying to get back in, I set him down with some twigs and pine cones and hes sorta kicking them away and he's walking around the living room with a "heaviness" to his step like a child trying to stomp on the floor during a tantrum. I've never seen this before.

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    Default Re: Persistent diarrhea in 3-4 week old boy

    You definitely had me laughing. Yes.. it sounds like he is throwing a little temper tantrum.

    Try offering him some rat blocks to chew on. Mazuri (at pet store) or Henry's Healthy Blocks (ordered online).
    It may divert his attention from not constantly eating formula.

    Single's are tricky. They can become very over dependent.

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    Default Re: Persistent diarrhea in 3-4 week old boy

    Quote Originally Posted by Javarat View Post
    You definitely had me laughing. Yes.. it sounds like he is throwing a little temper tantrum.

    Try offering him some rat blocks to chew on. Mazuri (at pet store) or Henry's Healthy Blocks (ordered online).
    It may divert his attention from not constantly eating formula.

    Single's are tricky. They can become very over dependent.
    He's been getting worse. He gets wild excited to see a syringe and when he realizes it's water he looks me right in the face with this expression that seems to say "why would you do such a terrible thing to me?" and with two feet pushes it away from him just staring me down the whole time. I've been trying to get a video or at least picture of the puss on his face but I don't have enough hands.

    I'm raising a little nightmare lolol. He's so cute though.

    Finally figured out a good potty training method that's working much better than the sponges. I posted a thread explaining it in one of the other sections. I did borrow an idea ("perch" rock) from someone else who mentioned using one for their adult baby. Working out very well.

    My 75 pound boy dog is afraid of the 90g baby.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OUc...w?usp=drivesdk

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x23...w?usp=drivesdk

    In video number two he got himself stuck under the desk because I have the recliner tucked in under there cuz I needed the floor space to do a jigsaw puzzle.
    Last edited by MotherOfBadgers; 10-08-2019 at 01:59 AM. Reason: Typos

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