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Thread: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    I know this I just didnt have the money for it. I couldnt just leave the little guy in the road. Ive been freaking out trying to figure out what to do for the poor thing. I got what I needed from this. So im deleting my account. You people can go to hell. Im trying my best. Im just not as fortunate as others so piss off and have a nice life with your amazing squirrels. Jerks.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    I had no intent to be the jerk that was perceived. Nor had I read your entire other thread at 3AM and was familiar with your individual circumstances.

    Now that all my babies are fed this morning and I am refreshed by a full 5 hours of (broken) sleep.. I see that maybe you were asking about brands of goat's milk, yogurt, etc. It will not matter if this is a temporary formula until the Fox valley arrives. The powdered goat's milk (in the baking isle usually with thing like condensed milk) will be more economical. Vanilla or plain yogurt is great, avoid the "sugary stuff" with fruit and such added.

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  4. #23
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    THE PEDIALYTE WILL KILL HIM IF YOU DON'T STOP. It can only be fed for 24 hours -- NO MORE! The extreme amount of sodium (salt) in Pedialyte will blow up his joints and kill him, so whatever you think of us, THINK OF YOUR SQUIRREL AND DO THE RIGHT THING.

    Fox Valley is about $12/lb. It will feed one baby for weeks and weeks. How much is a movie ticket now? How much is Starbucks? How much do you pay for cable/satellite/whatEVER television?

    An animal's life is WORTH IT.
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  6. #24
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    Don't just leave here, we can try to help. We understand that there are lots of different folks in different situations here but we are all united by caring hearts, otherwise we would not be helping squirrels. We might be able to find a rehabber near you who can help or help you to find some way to get your baby some help. People here are just trying to help and sometimes in the rush of the moment or where there us great urgency, folks can be direct. But we always are trying to help squirrels and their finders.


    Quote Originally Posted by CallaLily47 View Post
    I know this I just didnt have the money for it. I couldnt just leave the little guy in the road. Ive been freaking out trying to figure out what to do for the poor thing. I got what I needed from this. So im deleting my account. You people can go to hell. Im trying my best. Im just not as fortunate as others so piss off and have a nice life with your amazing squirrels. Jerks.
    See my wild squirrel adventures in the thread "Squirtle's yard!":
    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...quirtle-s-Yard!

    See the sisters Pip and Nip!
    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...-(Pip-and-Nip)!

    Loving dad to Sir Max, 2017-2018. There is no foot so small that it cannot leave an imprint on this world.

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  8. #25
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    Yes, Calla, folks only want to help you and your baby. I know the formula is expensive. If I was closer I’d gladly give you some or the money to buy some, but I’m in Florida. That’s why Nancy In New York’s offer is so wonderful. If you can work something out to get to her I know she will help in any way she can. The urgency is that your little guy needs some nourishment suitable for a squirrel.

    If you can get to the store and buy some goats milk, yogurt and heavy whipping cream and follow the goats milk recipe (3 parts goats milk, fresh is best, 1 part yogurt and 1 part heavy cream) it will at least provide your little one with some much needed nourishment. It can be any brand of yogurt without artificial sweeteners or flavors.

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  10. #26
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by CallaLily47 View Post
    I know this I just didnt have the money for it. I couldnt just leave the little guy in the road. Ive been freaking out trying to figure out what to do for the poor thing. I got what I needed from this. So im deleting my account. You people can go to hell. Im trying my best. Im just not as fortunate as others so piss off and have a nice life with your amazing squirrels. Jerks.
    Hi Calla!
    I understand your frustration, and it's hard to follow the threads and be new to baby squirrel care. I have my first baby and just joined last month but everyone has been amazing so far. Even with my veterinary background I've learned SO much on here. You're all that baby has unless you find a rehabber close by. I haven't seen your other thread, but I just got my fox valley 20/50 in the mail yesterday and could mail you some from OHIO if you need some help to get started (if baby is 4+ weeks). In the meantime, my baby did phenomenal on the recommended GMF when he had trouble with Esbilac and I found him as a pinky (he's 5 weeks now!). I only have one baby and don't expect I'll be able to use the whole pack before he's weaned. Even if I do, I don't mind helping. Just PM me if you're interested. -Amy

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  12. #27
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    I sent CallaLily47 an email.
    I hope she responds to me soon.
    I will keep you all posted if she does. Name:  pray.gif
Views: 118
Size:  2.7 KB

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  14. #28
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    Hello, just joined this forum. I have been using Esbilac and have not had any issues. That being said, I will supplement my babies with additional calcium. Last year I tried Fox Valley with poor results. Go figure. Has anyone combined Esbilac and Fox Valley?

  15. #29
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    Welcome Yes, Before the Esbilac situation, many Rehabbers switch to a 50/50 mix of Esbilac and Fox Valley 20/50 when their babies eyes open.

    Check your can. Does it have a flag on it and say “made in USA”? Or does the label say “crafted in the USA? The cans that say made in the USA appear to be the old formulation and seem to be fine.

    If your can is the “crafted” one it would probably be best to gradually switch your guys to Fox Valley.

  16. #30
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    I just want to say that you are wonderful people, helping us with our baby squirrels, and I hope the harshness of a frustrated and possibly grieving person (above, top post) doesn't spoil any of the loving vibe that pervades this forum. You helped me save my baby and I respect your knowledge and wisdom and most of all, your love for and devotion to these beautiful and gentle creatures.

    Although my little 8 week old girl is now on Fox Valley (20/50 and blocks), since she had been on Esbilac (with the loose stools attendant upon the unsuitable new formulation) for two weeks, I have given her extra CaCO3 mashed into avocado, which she eagerly eats. I've bumped up the CaCO3 in her formula. She seems perkier! It seems as though those two weeks on Esbilac may have caused a deficit that needs filling. She was having a little trouble balancing when sitting up to eat solid foods with her hands.

    Thank you all again and again.

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  18. #31
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    I was in contact with PetAg because of my concerns about a grainy substance that was never dissolving properly into the water, and this information has been passed onto me as well. It's very good to know about, but also really unfortunate for a lot of people who relied on Esbilac. I hope that they succeed in developing a finer version of this calcium so that Esbilac can once again be used for small baby mammals, including squirrels. Apparently, they recommend Goats Milk Esbilac for wildlife instead, but I feel like I have seen that this isn't recommended by rehabbers -- possibly something to do with the whey protein concentrate in normal Esbilac being more digestible than the whole goat milk powder used in Goats Milk Esbilac? Either way, this is just unfortunate to hear about.

  19. #32
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    Mel 1959 wrote:

    If you can get to the store and buy some goats milk, yogurt and heavy whipping cream and follow the goats milk recipe (3 parts goats milk, fresh is best, 1 part yogurt and 1 part heavy cream) it will at least provide your little one with some much needed nourishment. It can be any brand of yogurt without artificial sweeteners or flavors.
    Though there are other brands, here is one source you may come across. At least this will give you an idea of what you are looking for.

    I would assume it is the whole fat version that would be included. The nutritional data is noted on the label on the left side of the page.


    This is the organic plain whole fat yogurt from Stonyfield:

    https://www.stonyfield.com/products/...ilk-plain-32oz

    [

  20. #33
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    Sorry for the long post ... I do have questions at the bottom:

    I decided to hop on this site last night b/c of new problem I’ve encountered with the squirrels I’m rehabbing. I have two squirrels that are @ 7wks old (both came to me with issues the board has helped me solve) and then last Friday I acquired another little one who was in bad shape (she’s 5-6wks). I raised several squirrels last year as well.

    So, per the recommendations on here and elsewhere, I’ve used Esbilac. Never had a problem. Til this week. About the time my most recent squirrel arrived so did another can of Esbilac. I think I opened it middle of last week. The new squirrel was in bad shape with multiple scratches/wounds, probably from a cat. I started antibiotics and feeding with Esbilac. She was definitely scrawny and dehydrated as well.... so the feeding did perk her up but after a few days I became concerned b/c she wasn’t having BMs. I would stimulate but after 10-20 min still nothing. My first thought was it was the antibiotics so I cut them off yesterday, a day early. Last night I finally got two little tiny poo pellets out of her but this morning I only got one little one ... There should be way more than this! She seems to be eating happily and enough but isn’t as active as I would expect.

    Because I was worried, I got on here last night and I saw the banner at the top — the Esbilac issue could definitely explain her issues. I have been feeding her well since I received her on Friday, so I don’t think it’s a hydration thing.

    And on another note, I noticed when I cleaned my other squirrels cage this morning that there was hardly any poo in the cage! Like these two are drinking so much (15cc each a feeding) — there should be poo! So after their morning feed I observed them and noticed they seem a little odd after their feedings. They lay around the cage and seem a bit lethargic. They perk up and start moving around again after a while but I’m concerned now!

    I got on and ordered the Fox Valley and it’s on its way. Is your recommendation to go get goats milk and make my own formula until the Fox Valley arrives? Would that be too hard on them to go from Esbilac to homemade to Fox Valley in such a short amount of time?

    And if I need to do the homemade stuff while I wait, where do you get goats milk?

  21. #34
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    Check your can. (See below)
    Hopefully these posts will answer some of your questions.
    I have to run out so I just copied and pasted.


    Quote Originally Posted by Javarat View Post
    These observations do give us a way of determining the 'good' from the 'bad' Esbilac.
    We can ask people if their can says 'made' or 'crafted' in the USA.
    Cans that say 'made' should be safe to use, as they were from the old manufacturer.
    Is this correct?
    It will be interesting to see if members have problems with both.


    ........


    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy in New York
    Quote Originally Posted by CritterMom View Post
    GOAT’S MILK
    The most common brand of goat’s milk you will find in the US is Meyenberg. They have fresh in quart cartons, dry powder in cans, and also evaporated liquid in cans. The dry and evaporated both need to be mixed with water before use, per the directions. All of the packaging is purple and white.

    I actually look for stuff like this in stores even when I don’t need it, and every Trader Joe’s I have gone to has had the Meyenburg fresh goat’s milk in their dairy case. I have not seen either the dry or evaporated there. I have not looked at Whole Foods but I would be very surprised if they don’t have at least one, if not all three kinds.

    I have two large grocery chains here – Shaws, which is owned by Albertsons now, and Hannaford, which so far has not been absorbed by a larger conglomerate. Neither have fresh, but I have found the dry goats milk at both stores, and have checked various stores in both chains and found it. Part of the secret is finding it in the store, and as I have found out, many of the employees have no idea they have it, so calling and asking is of little use. I usually find it in the baking aisle with the other canned milks like Eagle Brand and Carnation. I have, however also found it in the organics section with the coconut milk!

    Walmart has the dry goats milk, and it is in the baking aisle. I have looked in three Walmarts – two here in the Northeast and also in Tucson and found it at all three. Walmarts being fairly available to most people may be the safest bet around.

    HEAVY CREAM
    The cream in the formula is there to provide needed fat, so purchasing the highest milkfat cream you can is the way to go. It is usually labeled “heavy cream” or “heavy whipping cream.” Regular whipping cream is lower in fat. It is found with the half and half and other coffee creamers in the dairy case. This is NOT the stuff in the can that you squirt in your mouth when nobody is looking – it is a liquid and is in tiny cartons.

    YOGURT
    The yogurt should also be the “full fat” variety, which is somewhat harder to find. Most yogurts are either no fat or low fat. The most reliable brand I have found that is everywhere is Stoneyfield. They make large containers of plain and vanilla full fat yogurt, as well as their Yobaby line. Don’t select any yogurts with artificial sweeteners.
    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...la-ingredients



    Quote Originally Posted by HRT4SQRLS View Post
    TEMPORARY GOAT'S MILK FORMULA:


    3 parts goat’s milk
    1 part heavy whipping cream*
    1 part vanilla yogurt

    Formula will last 48 hours in refrigerator.

    Goat’s Milk
    This can be purchased at natural food stores such as Trader Joe’s and Whole Foods, and at most health food stores that sell groceries. It is a product for humans. Do not substitute commercial formula made for baby goats or other livestock sold at feed stores.

    Goat’s milk is available fresh in a carton; evaporated in a can; and as a powdered milk. If you purchase either the evaporated or powdered versions, please blend them with water according to the package directions before using to make the formula.

    Heavy Whipping Cream
    This is found in small cartons in the grocery store near the coffee creamers and half and half. Regular heavy cream may be substituted if it is unavailable, but the heavy whipping cream has the highest fat content, and is preferred.

    Yogurt
    Yogurt has beneficial bacteria in it that soothes and settles digestion. Full fat yogurt is best, and a good choice that is very widely available is Stoneyfield Yobaby yogurt. However if it is unavailable, a low fat vanilla yogurt may be substituted. Avoid those that have artificial sweeteners in them. Vanilla and banana are both popular flavors, and the sweet taste of the yogurt helps to convince the baby to accept it.

    https://thesquirrelboard.com/forums/...W-BABY-ARRIVAL

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  23. #35
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    My current can says “crafted”. Dear me! So stop the Esbilac immediately and make my own right? I will head out in a bit to hunt down the goats milk. We have a Whole Foods not too far from us.

  24. #36
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    The goats milk formula is just a temporary formula. With the age your squirrels are they can be on Fox Valley 20/50. The little scrawny one could probably benefit from the GMF but it’s still only to be used temporarily. Order some FV 20/50 from Henrys or somewhere asap.

  25. #37
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    I see that you are in FL. You should be able to get goats milk at Publix. Not all stores have the fresh goats milk. Some do some don’t. I supposed they stock it based on demand in an area.

    I would think all Publix would sell the powdered goat milk. I have found it there. As a last resort you can buy Meyerberg canned goat milk concentrate. It has to be diluted 1:1 with water before use.

    Here is an idea. Instead of switching 3 times in a matter of day, why don’t you add the goat milk formula 50:50 with the Esbilac until the FoxValley arrives. This will help offset the lack of bioavailable calcium in the Esbilac. I would also supplement all of the babies with calcium carbonate. It is my opinion that all babies that have been on the problematic Esbilac for more than a couple weeks do have MBD. It might not be obvious by visible symptoms but without any doubt the skeleton is weakened.

    I really have a fear that babies that have been raised on this Esbilac and are soon to be released are in serious jeopardy when released. I have released many squirrels. I have seen several fall from the trees with a great PLOP on release day. They shake it off and away they go. I’m not sure the month or so of solid food only (post weaning) can rebuild a fragile skeletal system without supplementation. Any falls for these babies would be a serious issue IMO. Others might disagree with my thoughts but I have great concerns.

    Your babies are young so you have time to reverse this before release.

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  27. #38
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    Publix is right down the street. About to head out as they are due to eat by 12:30. Thanks so much!

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  29. #39
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    I can confirm, after going out and buying one of the older lots of Esbilac, with the "Made in the USA" badge as opposed to the "Crafted in the USA" one, that it does not have the grainy texture that my two other cans had. Something has definitely changed. I had been scratching my head about my grainy formula for over a month. I'm going to pass this along to PetAg as well; though they claim that Esbilac has "always" had dicalcium phosphate and that nothing has changed, this is clearly not true. Something has.

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  31. #40
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    Default Re: Esbilac Warning (Fall 2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by theletterv View Post
    I can confirm, after going out and buying one of the older lots of Esbilac, with the "Made in the USA" badge as opposed to the "Crafted in the USA" one, that it does not have the grainy texture that my two other cans had. Something has definitely changed. I had been scratching my head about my grainy formula for over a month. I'm going to pass this along to PetAg as well; though they claim that Esbilac has "always" had dicalcium phosphate and that nothing has changed, this is clearly not true. Something has.
    I am sure you are right. They probably found a cheaper (and inferior) foreign source for the calcium. I wonder how it changed their profit margin, at the expense of all the dedicated rehabbers and suffering babies.

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