Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Dont know what could be wrong

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Jacksonville, Fl.
    Posts
    9
    Thanked: 0

    Default Dont know what could be wrong

    I have 2 eastern gray squirrel babies. The boy, Napoleon, i got on aug 7. He was a tiny pup with only fur around his nose and on his head. I judged to be about a week and a half. The girl, Nugget, i got on Aug 18. I know she is somewhat older than Napoleon, by at least 2 weeks. She opened her eyes 5 days after we got her, on aug 23. Then Napoleon opened his eyes 5 days after she did, on aug 28. Neither one was severely dehydrated when i got them, but i gave fluids anyway for a day, and then they have been on esbilac since.

    Since they opened their eyes, Nugget has sprouted well and taken off. She is super fat and fluffy, bushy tail, thickening fur, and big bright black eyes. She runs and climbs all over her cage. I took her off the heating pad about a week after she opened her eyes. And immediately introduced rodent blocks as soon as her eyes opened. She loves them. Napoleon, however, seems to be a late-bloomer. He is fully covered in fur, but its not thick. His tail has white hairs on it, but its not getting fluffy. He is still small. He is growing and gaining weight at a normal rate, he is just significantly smaller. Napoleon has no interest in the rodent blocks, or any other solid food. Only the formula. He does not climb around the cage, he stays in his sock. He is also very wobbly and seems to stay close to one area, almost like walking in circles or staying close to a specific scent. Like the rag i lay them on to feed them, after they eat, Nugget will run around and climb everything. But Napoleon acts like he can't see to leave the rag. He constantly sniffs where he is and if he leaves that rag, he sniffs til he finds it again. Nugget can see the feeding syringe, and she is an amazing eater. But Napoleon seems to not be able to see the syringe, i have to stick it in his mouth, but then he eats well. After a feeding, Nugget will have fun playing. But Napoleon crawls into a corner on my body somewhere and curls up. Also, Nugget is in her cage alone, while Napoleon is still in a bin on a heating pad because he cannot keep warm with his own body heat. I plan to keep them thru the winter, and release in the spring. But Im worried about releasing Napoleon.

    Now this is my concern. Napoleon has black eyes as well, but in a certain light, one of his eyes looks like a garnet colored hollow bead. Im wondering if he could be blind in that eye. His eyes are not cloudy or gray. Both him and Nugget have big bright black eyes. But Napoleons one eye looks funny. I have tried to take pictures of his eyes to be able to show someone, but i cant capture what im seeing in the photos. Im also concerned that Napoleon isnt catching on to the whole squirrel thing. Does anyone possibly know why he is not catching up to Nugget? Or have any ideas as to how i can coax Napoleon into being the squirrel he is? If he is not able to be released, he has a permanent home with me and my family. But i would love more for him to be able to live freely in his world, not mine.

    SN.. About a week before he opened his eyes, Napoleon did go thru a bad diarrhea spell for about 3 days. Nugget was fine, i kept them separated (they still are separated now as Nugget is bigger and plays too rough with Napoleon, plus he is still on a heating pad). I gave Napoleon fluids during those 3 days. On the 3rd day, i gave him esbilac and his stools returned to normal immediately. He started gaining his weight back, then like 2-3 days later opened his eyes.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    9,487
    Thanked: 8629

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    Hi Nicole

    to The Squirrel Board

    I hope we can help you. Let me ask a question. What is the BEST BY date on your can of Esbilac?
    Also, where did you purchase it. I know these are odd questions but I want to establish that your formula is good. There are problems with some lot of Esbilac at the present time. Letís rule that out first.

  3. Serious fuzzy thank you's to HRT4SQRLS from:

    Nic0le (09-08-2019)

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    15,966
    Thanked: 4220

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    Also, can you put up some pics of Napoleon? Love to see a full face view and a full body view if possible.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Jacksonville, Fl.
    Posts
    9
    Thanked: 0

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    The best buy date on my can of esbilac is 04/2021. Its a new can i bought last week from petsmart when i ran out of the last one. I'll post 2 pictures taken literally 5 minutes ago. Napoleon is the smaller less fluffy baby.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    9,487
    Thanked: 8629

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    Ok, it’s a new lot number so it is suspect. Have you noticed a gritty residue in the container after you prepare the formula?

    Based on when the eyes opened I think about 7 week. Does that sound about right?
    He actually doesn’t look bad.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    9,487
    Thanked: 8629

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    At that age, a weeks difference in age makes a big difference in the way they look. In a week the tail can poof out and curl over the back like a big squirrel.

    You mentioned removing the heating pad. Your little one might still need the warmth.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Jacksonville, Fl.
    Posts
    9
    Thanked: 0

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    As far as age, im not sure. I got Napoleon on Aug 7th with little to no hair. He had hair on his head but his back was bare skin. He opened his eyes on Aug 28th. Maybe his eyes could've opened early??

    The formula seems to be fine when i mix it. I use one of the tumbler cups with the mixer ball to mix the formula. 2 parts hot water (not boiling) and 1 part formula. I shake it really well then remove the mixer ball, and refrigerate for at least 4 hours before feeding. Theres no grit or clumps after mixing. And also, it has not changed their stools at all.


    He seems to be thriving just fine, his growth just seems almost stunted by something. Its just that In the time since Nugget has opened her eyes, she has filled out more. He still looks the same since before he opened his eyes.

    Nugget has been taken off the heating pad. She is now in a small cage with a water bottle and small bowl for her blocks. She can keep her warmth up. But Napoleon is still on the heating pad. He gets cold after a few minutes. So i decided he needs warmth for another couple of weeks.

    And then the concern of his eyesight. I wish i could get a picture of what i see. Its like looking at a small clear garnet colored marble.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    9,487
    Thanked: 8629

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    Nicole, we arenít going to have definitive answers because we have virtually NO diagnostic abilities.
    I am very concerned about the Esbilac you are using. We know there are definitely problems with the formula with the calcium.
    Calcium has many metabolic functions in the body far beyond bone health. I found an interesting scholarly article about Hypocalcemia and cataracts. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8109458

    Briefly, low calcium in the fluid in the eye (aqueous humor) and subsequently the lens causes the sodium level to increase in the lens causing the cataract. Do we know this is Napoleons problem? Absolutely NOT! But here is the deal, it certainly wonít hurt to supplement with calcium to make sure this isnít the problem. We KNOW there are calcium issues with the formula.

    Personally I think you would be wise to supplement both babies with calcium carbonate powder. The problem is I donít know how much to recommend. When babies have Metabolic Bone Disease the treatment is 50mg per day. I think that would be a good starting place. You can buy pure calcium carbonate from Henryís Healthy Pets or online. Tums is calcium carbonate.

  10. Serious fuzzy thank you's to HRT4SQRLS from:

    Nic0le (09-08-2019)

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Jacksonville, Fl.
    Posts
    9
    Thanked: 0

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    I did not know that about the calcium carbonate supplements. Thank you. I will definitely add it to their diets. I just hope he catches up soon and starts squirrelling as he should.

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    9,487
    Thanked: 8629

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Nic0le View Post
    I did not know that about the calcium carbonate supplements. Thank you. I will definitely add it to their diets. I just hope he catches up soon and starts squirrelling as he should.
    We donít usually supplement babies when on formula but there is more and more anecdotal evidence out there that indicates the current lots of Esbilac are problematic in terms of calcium.

    I hope to see your baby squirreling around soon also. That is so cute.

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Jacksonville, Fl.
    Posts
    9
    Thanked: 0

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    Update::
    I ordered a baby kit from Henry's with calcium powder and im awaiting its arrival. I bought tums 750mg calcium carbonate and have been supplementing with those until my delivery comes. I also bought a big pre-release cage for a steal of a price from somebody who previously had flyers. They built a sturdy cage and im happy i snagged it when i did.
    Nugget has been soft released into the big cage and is acclimating very well. She loves it. The cage is inside for now as i plan to over-winter them both so that Napoleon gets the attention he needs, and so i can release them together.
    Napoleon is still in his bin on heat. He is moving around more and trying to climb. His bin is just big enough for him to stand in and bounce around with extra room. His tail is getting a little more fluffy as well. When he is a little more mobile and has more strength, ill move him from his bin to the small cage. He still has no interest in blocks, so i provide a fresh one every morning after our squirrely milkfest in case he decides to start picking.

    What would be the best method to switch formulas when i get the FV from Henry's. Currently using leftover esbilac with crushed tums. Do i still need to give Napoleon extra calcium when i get the FV and if so, how much? Just want to make sure the switch goes easy.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  14. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Jacksonville, Fl.
    Posts
    9
    Thanked: 0

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    I dont know why my pictures load sideways 🤷

  15. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    9,487
    Thanked: 8629

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    Hi Nicole, Iím not sure why it happens but pics taken with a phone are always sideways or upside down. I tried to post a pic yesterday from my phone. It was upside down. I tried editing and rotating it but it was still upside down. I gave up.

    Nice cage. Great find.

    When the Fox Valley arrives you can do a fast transition. I know of many that are switching immediately due to the extreme nature of the problem. They arenít having problems with the switch over. If you want to do a 50:50 transition for a few feedings you can and then go to 100% Fox Valley. It will also help them to accept the new taste. I probably would supplement the Fox Valley for an addition week or two to offset any early Metabolic Bone Disease. I believe that all babies on the bad Esbilac have some degree of MBD so supplementing will be helpful.

  16. Serious fuzzy thank you's to HRT4SQRLS from:

    Nic0le (09-17-2019)

  17. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    11,116
    Thanked: 9182

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Nic0le View Post
    I dont know why my pictures load sideways 🤷
    If the picture is much longer vertically then it is horizontally it will do that. Since cell phones usually take pictures like that, I just crop the top and/or bottom of the picture a little and I have found the pictures will usually load upright then.
    Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

    "Don't cry because it's over - smile because it happened." Dr. Seuss

  18. Serious fuzzy thank you's to lennysmom from:

    Nancy in New York (09-16-2019)

  19. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Jacksonville, Fl.
    Posts
    9
    Thanked: 0

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    ::UPDATE::

    My Henry's order came yesterday. Nugget and Napoleon both love it, actually. Im giving them both extra calcium for a couple weeks. Nugget is only getting 50mg added daily because she is still doing good for being on Esbilac since i got her. Its more of a preventative measure for her. We did fluids all morning with Napoleon to help rehydrate so digestion would go as smooth as possible, as the tums made him vomit a little after each time we tried them. Only a little tummy upset. Little Nap got 600mg of added calcium yesterday and 600 today. Only one loose poo in 4 feedings. His poos are already back to normal. I found him sitting up with his tail curled over his back this morning!! Im so happy!! We will do 600mg once more tomorrow, then drop to 400mg for a few days. Then down to 200mg, and eventually to 50mg daily and keep it there for a few months to help restore any calcium loss in his little bones. Nugget has acclimated well to her big cage, so i removed the small (1 1/2 ft tall) cage and place Napoleon in it. He still has the heating pad, and the bottom is padded to avoid any serious falls and broken bones. He also has a cozy pocket, and when he starts sleeping in there, i will remove the heating pad. He is also nibbling on blocks now too. Just a little here and there. But he is finally "squirrelling" around. I know i must watch him closely over the next few weeks while he is on the mend and perking up. So i will place updates here for others to read. I guess it was the Esbilac. It did mix well, with little to no grit substance, but he was declining anyway. Im glad i made th switch to FV 20/50 from Esbilac. My new can of Esbilac was suspect and seems to really have been the culprit, because Napoleon is already so much better. I also want to thank everyone here for your input. Any suggestions are welcomed to promote better health for my squirrel babes. These forums have been really helpful as well. Its where most of my knowledge came from. So thank you again!!

  20. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    9,487
    Thanked: 8629

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    I am so happy to hear that Napoleon is better. 600mg is too much calcium for a baby. He is now on a good formula so I wouldnít supplement that much.

    An adult only gets 500mg per day when treating for MBD. I would drop that amount at least in half and then start stepping down from there. While he does need the added calcium to combat MBD you donít want to over supplement.

    I was wondering, how does the eye look. I remember your concerns about his eye. I found in my research that low calcium can be associated with juvenile cataracts.

  21. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Jacksonville, Fl.
    Posts
    9
    Thanked: 0

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    His eye still looks the same. No cloudiness or film. Just that empty, deep garnet red, clear marble look. He is moving around more so i guess i can judge his eyesight better in the upcoming weeks as his mobility gets better. I'll drop his calcium intake to 300mg tomorrow and start my decrease from there. Thanks for the suggestion.

  22. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Jacksonville, Fl.
    Posts
    9
    Thanked: 0

    Default Re: Dont know what could be wrong

    Napoleon is doing great. Making some gains. Hes in the cage and has completely taken over. He still shakes and has issues off of warmth. But other than that he is finally getting bigger. He is seriously runted, at almost 10 weeks hes only 130g. But making some serious gains like i said. Im so proud of him.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •